Dragon Age, what do you think about the story?

[ultrachicken]

I was most interested in the Qunari, but they decided to ditch that story line and milk the Templars vs. Mages moral choice for all it's worth. It felt like you couldn't swing a stick without hitting a blood mage/apostate by the end of the game.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I found myself agreeing with the Arishok, Kirkwall is a dive that encourages the worst sort of poverty to go unheeded. Why on earth is your so character invested in keeping such a place going. I sure as hell wouldn't be.

 

[Coldie]

No connection? Do I need to summarize and subsequently spoil the enter plotline right here to show how wrong that is?

The connection is not blatant yes, but why the hell should it be? The game takes place over a decade. Things need to build up and do so in a way that doesn't throw the ending in your face from the very start. While to me, it seemed somewhat obvious what road this all was taking, it won't to others, and there's a fair share of plot twists in there as well.

Things are all connected in DA2. I thought that was bloody obvious.

Be my guest. "Meredith has the McGuffin" is not a connection, it's unrelated to the plot. The three stories, Deep Roads, Artishock Arishok, Revolt are very explicitly separate. The game would be better off if it dropped the Deep Road act and did the Revolt bit before the Qunari.

Spoiler: Imagine this game, if you will (possible spoilers for DA2)

Prologue: You're introduced to Hawkes in Lothering, get to know the family and form a connection with them and your home, before being evicted by the Scourge Blight. Meet Aveline at Ostagar and flee together. Some cameos by the old party.

Chapter 1: Flee to Kirkwall, but not in a cinematic. Meet Varric in the port town and together raise some money to take Isabela's ship to Kirkwall. En route, her ship gets attacked by the Qunari warship, that's where your sibling dies. A much more personal introduction and you might actually have a reason to dislike Qunari at all.

Chapter 2: Arrive and settle in Kirkwall. Templar-mage tensions are high and Qunari are settling down in the city. Meet the two pro-mage companions (Anders/Justice and Merril) and two pro-templar (Sebastian and Fenris). Maybe add a saarebas companion. As the conflict escalates, Leandra is killed by a mage that was pushed a little too far by a templar and you join one of the four factions, Templars (they were right!), Mages (they were pushed too hard!), Chantry (There must be a peaceful solution!), or the Qun (you will adapt to serve us). Anders' personal story is about choosing between embracing Justice or suppressing it. If you side with the Chantry or Templars, the Chantry incident happens, but not by Anders' hand.

Chapter 3: A few years later, with the city firmly under control of one of the factions and Hawke as its champion, the city is besieged by the Divine's Exalted March seeking to purge the city of Mages/Qunari if you sided with them or to conquer it if the Chantry was destroyed. As you deal with the March, you either topple the Chantry's dominance by defeating them or let them purge the city and get railroaded trigger the revolts across Thedas. Maybe request some help from other Free March cities, Antiva, Ferelden, Tevinter, or the Qun. In the end, the seekers are looking for Hawke to either make him answer for his crimes or to get his help with calming the storm down.

Oh, and characters killed in the first game stay dead in the second. And actually use the damn framing device more than twice.

 

[NotSoNimble]

Dragon Age, what do you think about the story?

I loved it, and I want more. Get new DLC out quickly please.

Playing the game good, bad, or smart ass, made it worth playing 3 completely different characters. Finishing all of the side quests, companion quests, and main story quests, was unique for each character. I loved the pain of having to choose how to deal with every interaction, knowing that my companions may think differently, and knowing that: 'I am the fucking Champion! You will deal with me!' only gets you so far in the story. It's about the different sides to every story/quest that gives the game life.

I get that people think the game deserves a 1 out of 10 rating. They are basing a score off of what they expected. They didn't get what they wanted. I feel sorry for all of you that feel that way.

That doesn't mean that I didn't love almost everything about this game. Hell, I hated the God of War trilogy. I don't like anything about those games. I guess that is how the DA2 haters feel.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I love the game theres just certain things that irk me...like Aveline's chin.

 

[darth.pixie]

No connection? Do I need to summarize and subsequently spoil the enter plotline right here to show how wrong that is?

The connection is not blatant yes, but why the hell should it be? The game takes place over a decade. Things need to build up and do so in a way that doesn't throw the ending in your face from the very start. While to me, it seemed somewhat obvious what road this all was taking, it won't to others, and there's a fair share of plot twists in there as well.

Things are all connected in DA2. I thought that was bloody obvious.

Be my guest. "Meredith has the McGuffin" is not a connection, it's unrelated to the plot. The three stories, Deep Roads, Artishock Arishok, Revolt are very explicitly separate. The game would be better off if it dropped the Deep Road act and did the Revolt bit before the Qunari.

Spoiler: Imagine this game, if you will (possible spoilers for DA2)

Prologue: You're introduced to Hawkes in Lothering, get to know the family and form a connection with them and your home, before being evicted by the Scourge Blight. Meet Aveline at Ostagar and flee together. Some cameos by the old party.

Chapter 1: Flee to Kirkwall, but not in a cinematic. Meet Varric in the port town and together raise some money to take Isabela's ship to Kirkwall. En route, her ship gets attacked by the Qunari warship, that's where your sibling dies. A much more personal introduction and you might actually have a reason to dislike Qunari at all.

Chapter 2: Arrive and settle in Kirkwall. Templar-mage tensions are high and Qunari are settling down in the city. Meet the two pro-mage companions (Anders/Justice and Merril) and two pro-templar (Sebastian and Fenris). Maybe add a saarebas companion. As the conflict escalates, Leandra is killed by a mage that was pushed a little too far by a templar and you join one of the four factions, Templars (they were right!), Mages (they were pushed too hard!), Chantry (There must be a peaceful solution!), or the Qun (you will adapt to serve us). Anders' personal story is about choosing between embracing Justice or suppressing it. If you side with the Chantry or Templars, the Chantry incident happens, but not by Anders' hand.

Chapter 3: A few years later, with the city firmly under control of one of the factions and Hawke as its champion, the city is besieged by the Divine's Exalted March seeking to purge the city of Mages/Qunari if you sided with them or to conquer it if the Chantry was destroyed. As you deal with the March, you either topple the Chantry's dominance by defeating them or let them purge the city and get railroaded trigger the revolts across Thedas. Maybe request some help from other Free March cities, Antiva, Ferelden, Tevinter, or the Qun. In the end, the seekers are looking for Hawke to either make him answer for his crimes or to get his help with calming the storm down.

Oh, and characters killed in the first game stay dead in the second. And actually use the damn framing device more than twice.

Can you send that to Bioware? Like...right now. I'd play that. I'd play the hell out of that. Multiple times. It would also show more places than just Kirkwall and actually make you care about more characters. I only wish it could have turned out that way instead of how it was now. It just seems like they spread themselves too thin. All of those years could have been cramped into one and it would have been plausible seeing as the events of DA:O were in a single year and the Warden actually had to do more stuff than sidequests.

...Now you made me want for it.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Yeah I like that story better too good show!

 

[Hader]

I see where you are coming from but I just think it is a weak excuse, for lack of a better word. In all RPGs, people always scrutinize this 'fat' on the side (i.e., sidequests) as being good and immersive or just a pain in the ass. I think the sidequests are all done well here, and the main plot points early game are just fine as they are. They are essential to the story, to an extent. Would we all like if, in Origins, they took out all of the Origins stories where you meet Duncan, and just throw you into your first mission at Ostagar? I think we would all hate that. But that is basically the same thing as the beginning main plot in 2, its building up your character's origins and how they got to where they made a difference in the world. DA2 may draw that out more, but that's not necessarily bad.

And yet, if you were to zing through the main plot without hitting the side quests you are forced to go on unless you cheat with money, you wouldn't know 10 years had passed until they beat you over the head with it during the cutscenes. Overall, I found the story pretty pedestrian and not very engaging for a RPG storyline. I was reminded of the recent FFXIIIIIFGGIGIGSDDFFFG, all flash and no pan to hold it all together.

I got to 100 sovereigns easy doing all the sidequests before the expedition. Hard to imagine it taking too much to get just half that for the bare minimum. God forbid the game makes you put effort into advancing the main storyline now.

 

[Hader]

No connection? Do I need to summarize and subsequently spoil the enter plotline right here to show how wrong that is?

The connection is not blatant yes, but why the hell should it be? The game takes place over a decade. Things need to build up and do so in a way that doesn't throw the ending in your face from the very start. While to me, it seemed somewhat obvious what road this all was taking, it won't to others, and there's a fair share of plot twists in there as well.

Things are all connected in DA2. I thought that was bloody obvious.

Be my guest. "Meredith has the McGuffin" is not a connection, it's unrelated to the plot. The three stories, Deep Roads, Artishock Arishok, Revolt are very explicitly separate. The game would be better off if it dropped the Deep Road act and did the Revolt bit before the Qunari.

Spoiler: Imagine this game, if you will (possible spoilers for DA2)

Prologue: You're introduced to Hawkes in Lothering, get to know the family and form a connection with them and your home, before being evicted by the Scourge Blight. Meet Aveline at Ostagar and flee together. Some cameos by the old party.

Chapter 1: Flee to Kirkwall, but not in a cinematic. Meet Varric in the port town and together raise some money to take Isabela's ship to Kirkwall. En route, her ship gets attacked by the Qunari warship, that's where your sibling dies. A much more personal introduction and you might actually have a reason to dislike Qunari at all.

Chapter 2: Arrive and settle in Kirkwall. Templar-mage tensions are high and Qunari are settling down in the city. Meet the two pro-mage companions (Anders/Justice and Merril) and two pro-templar (Sebastian and Fenris). Maybe add a saarebas companion. As the conflict escalates, Leandra is killed by a mage that was pushed a little too far by a templar and you join one of the four factions, Templars (they were right!), Mages (they were pushed too hard!), Chantry (There must be a peaceful solution!), or the Qun (you will adapt to serve us). Anders' personal story is about choosing between embracing Justice or suppressing it. If you side with the Chantry or Templars, the Chantry incident happens, but not by Anders' hand.

Chapter 3: A few years later, with the city firmly under control of one of the factions and Hawke as its champion, the city is besieged by the Divine's Exalted March seeking to purge the city of Mages/Qunari if you sided with them or to conquer it if the Chantry was destroyed. As you deal with the March, you either topple the Chantry's dominance by defeating them or let them purge the city and get railroaded trigger the revolts across Thedas. Maybe request some help from other Free March cities, Antiva, Ferelden, Tevinter, or the Qun. In the end, the seekers are looking for Hawke to either make him answer for his crimes or to get his help with calming the storm down.

Oh, and characters killed in the first game stay dead in the second. And actually use the damn framing device more than twice.

You miss the point of this way of storytelling entirely.

How aren't these things related? *Spoilers ahead for those not familiar with the main plot yet*.

The first one has you gathering money to go on the expedition. A simple task. And many of the sidequests available are somewhat related to the later main plot line, in their own way. Once you go on the expedition, you recover two important things: A shit ton of money and the lyrium idol. Please don't make me begin to explain their significance now. If you played the game, you know.

Then the part with the Qunari. That is definitely a bit less relevant but is not at all detached from the rest of the plot. Maybe you didn't notice, but this game is centered around Kirkwall. And the Qunari have a huge impact on Kirkwall. Their presence scares people and they are on the verge of hostilities, thanks to the actions of some idiots in the town. This whole act is setup to show how the hell you become known as the champion. How is that not important? How is that not related to the rest of the plot? Or should they just skip over the part that details your rise to champion altogether as well? As I said before, that would be like skipping the details of each specific origins story in the first game, and instead starting the game at Ostagar. The game was named Origins ffs, it was all about who you chose to be in the beginning and the story you forged from that point onward. DA2 is no different in concept, just takes a different approach to it.

 

[Hader]

Just finished the deep roads expedition.

Did not like the boss fights with console micromanagement.

Bethany's death was poor storytelling. Also rather annoying since she's the only character i'd specced for healing. Well done Bioware.

Not to spoil too much either but, that is avoidable. Just a choice that has varying consequences.

 

[Hader]

Just finished the deep roads expedition.

Did not like the boss fights with console micromanagement.

Bethany's death was poor storytelling. Also rather annoying since she's the only character i'd specced for healing. Well done Bioware.

Not to spoil too much either but, that is avoidable. Just a choice that has varying consequences.

well obviously, if you don't bring her, she won't die. However since she's the only healer it seems rather petulane tgame design to force that on the player. Bioware really suck at storytelling.

She is YOUR only healer. Just because there is one mishap in the game based on your decisions doesn't mean they did a shit job at storytelling. I made one different decision than you and things turned out different for me. Don't blame Bioware for something like that.

 

[Coldie]

The first one has you gathering money to go on the expedition. A simple task. And many of the sidequests available are somewhat related to the later main plot line, in their own way. Once you go on the expedition, you recover two important things: A shit ton of money and the lyrium idol. Please don't make me begin to explain their significance now. If you played the game, you know.

That's because there's no significance worth anything. The way the McGuffin idol figures into the plot is just to make an excuse for Meredith being the boss fight. Compare the two possible ways to handle it:
* Meredith is a zealot, hellbent on killing the mages and stuff like The Tranquil Solution happens.
* Or Meredith is innocent and was corrupted by a magic McGuffin. She is hellbent on killing the mages etc, but it's okay, because it's the idol's fault.
Which one is better storytelling?

As for money, it's okay, although they could've just done this to avoid the whole subplot (as if we didn't have enough Deep Roads in the first game):
1. Arrive into city as refugees, find your uncle.
2. Break into the mansion to steal the Will and use it to lawfully reclaim your mansion and title and fortune and a partridge in a pear tree.
3. Profit!
4. Keep doing fetch quests for trivial money and killing bandits and spiders for even less reason.

Then the part with the Qunari. That is definitely a bit less relevant but is not at all detached from the rest of the plot. Maybe you didn't notice, but this game is centered around Kirkwall. And the Qunari have a huge impact on Kirkwall. Their presence scares people and they are on the verge of hostilities, thanks to the actions of some idiots in the town. This whole act is setup to show how the hell you become known as the champion. How is that not important? How is that not related to the rest of the plot? Or should they just skip over the part that details your rise to champion altogether as well?

The Qunari have a huge impact on Kirkwall, sure. But the impact is entirely contained in the second act and is never actually shown until they start fighting suddenly. Show, do not tell. That's practically the Prime Directive of good writing.

The champion bit ended up being of surprisingly little relevance. It's just an excuse for the character to "matter" and have a simple reference name. Like Commander [Shepard], Warden [DA:O], or, hell, Warden-Commander [DA:A]. They could think up a bazillion other titles or reasons to be crowned Champion. They way they did it was a little sudden and had no effect on the game, other than some dialogue references. Get rid of the awesome Qunari, become champion, keep doing fetch quests for trivial money and killing bandits and spiders for even less reason.

 

[Shycte]

I loved the story. What I loved most was how different things really can be between any two playthroughs.

Seriously? I've done two playtroughs with the diffrent "Origins" and it was hardly any diffrence. Please, tell me what diffrences you found.

 

[Coldie]

Not really, my character is a rogue so my party choices are a bit more limited in the deep roads as Varric, another rogue, has to accompany me. Therefore there are two other slots, one of which has to be a tank (aveline). The last spot would either have to be Anders Bethany or Merill and only Bethany has the proper medical spells. I could have specced Anders or Merrill accordingly but that would have been a poor choice (and i wouldn't have known ahead of time that Bethany was to die) since they are clearly built differently; Merrill is a blood mage and her bonus talent tree is already unlocked to begin with, while Anders is specced aggressively. It's poor game design because you cannot plan your companions' build accordingly ahead of time. Whether this will affect my gameplay subsequently remains to be seen but since i've yet to meet a specific healer companion (like Wynn from DAO) it's a weak piece of game design, and contrived storytelling, to just arbitrarily kill your sister just because she's there. It's also badly done.

Anders is the dedicated healer companion, about half his personal tree is about healing.

Deep Roads: Even if you don't take Bethany or Carver with you, or configure the party so the sibling survives the expedition, the outcome will be the same. After Act 1, Bethany or Carver will leave your party, either permanently or until the endgame sequence.

 

[Hader]

That's because there's no significance worth anything. The way the McGuffin idol figures into the plot is just to make an excuse for Meredith being the boss fight. Compare the two possible ways to handle it:
* Meredith is a zealot, hellbent on killing the mages and stuff like The Tranquil Solution happens.
* Or Meredith is innocent and was corrupted by a magic McGuffin. She is hellbent on killing the mages etc, but it's okay, because it's the idol's fault.
Which one is better storytelling?

As for money, it's okay, although they could've just done this to avoid the whole subplot (as if we didn't have enough Deep Roads in the first game):
1. Arrive into city as refugees, find your uncle.
2. Break into the mansion to steal the Will and use it to lawfully reclaim your mansion and title and fortune and a partridge in a pear tree.
3. Profit!
4. Keep doing fetch quests for trivial money and killing bandits and spiders for even less reason.

Firstly, quit making out the sidequests to be so trivial. They are still optional, and you have choice as to what you do with them. Apart from gathering money for the expedition, the money you get from then is negligible. I did every sidequest for the sake of seeing how they were, not getting more money. By the end of the game I had so much leftover that I just spent it on a shit ton of combustion grenades that I kicked at the brothel for shiggles.

You are pointing out things that matter little here. Yes, there are many ways they could have gone about this, but the fact is, they didn't. Accept what Bioware chose to do with the story here and don't scrutinize it to the point of saying what should and shouldn't have been done like that.

The Qunari have a huge impact on Kirkwall, sure. But the impact is entirely contained in the second act and is never actually shown until they start fighting suddenly. Show, do not tell. That's practically the Prime Directive of good writing.

The champion bit ended up being of surprisingly little relevance. It's just an excuse for the character to "matter" and have a simple reference name. Like Commander [Shepard], Warden [DA:O], or, hell, Warden-Commander [DA:A]. They could think up a bazillion other titles or reasons to be crowned Champion. They way they did it was a little sudden and had no effect on the game, other than some dialogue references. Get rid of the awesome Qunari, become champion, keep doing fetch quests for trivial money and killing bandits and spiders for even less reason.

Their impact grows slowly from the start of the game until the end of the second act. Their outbreak of fighting wasn't all too sudden either. Tensions were clearly on the rise for some time. Need I mention Patrice? (Loved it when she got shot though, priceless moment).

So why complain about it then? That is the way they chose for you to become champion. Defeating the Arishok and forcing the qunari to leave Kirkwall. They could have chosen many other ways yes, but that is what they chose. Just like the Warden, or Shepard in Mass Effect, there are so many ways they can make the character famous, so why does it matter so much how they do that?

 

[kingcom]

I found it very lackluster and ultimately anti-climatic. I get the whole idea they were going with of the table top rpg storytelling being adopted for a video game and the attempt to create a historical scenario rather than simply singular events in DA2 for preparation of the big world changing event going down in the third game but unlike DA:O, the game didn't leave me wanting more. I was more simply glad I was done with it and could move on as opposed to really wanting to know what happens next as in the original.


I think there were many many missed opportunities for exciting events that could have been directly altered by the players dialogue choices and are ultimately left to be events you cant partake in until it comes to fight time. A lot of the dialogue felt entirely irrelevent and I very rarely felt like I could change the course of events.

 

[Hader]

Not really, my character is a rogue so my party choices are a bit more limited in the deep roads as Varric, another rogue, has to accompany me. Therefore there are two other slots, one of which has to be a tank (aveline). The last spot would either have to be Anders Bethany or Merill and only Bethany has the proper medical spells. I could have specced Anders or Merrill accordingly but that would have been a poor choice (and i wouldn't have known ahead of time that Bethany was to die) since they are clearly built differently; Merrill is a blood mage and her bonus talent tree is already unlocked to begin with, while Anders is specced aggressively. It's poor game design because you cannot plan your companions' build accordingly ahead of time. Whether this will affect my gameplay subsequently remains to be seen but since i've yet to meet a specific healer companion (like Wynn from DAO) it's a weak piece of game design, and contrived storytelling, to just arbitrarily kill your sister just because she's there. It's also badly done.

No, that spot does not have to be a tank. I took myself, a rogue, Isabela, Anders and Varric on the expedition. I got through with no one being injured, and Bethany lives.

I know you specced them differently, but again, that is your action, and not something to blame on the storytelling. It was your choice to bring her along, and your consequence to live with. When I reached that point, I had a slight feeling that bringing Bethany with me might be bad after mother intervenes so forcefully before you leave. So I decided against taking her, and I had to live with that consequence later.

You are pointing out flaws that don't exist and hardly backing them up to begin with. Not to sound like an ass, but it sounds like your party choices just suck to begin with. If you want my advice, make Anders your healer, as his special skill set is half about healing (basically a spirit healer, something no one else has because that is a skill only available to a player mage). Bethany is best used as an elemental mage I found, for the first act of the game. Merrill is good for offensive spells, I like Primal combined with her special set of elvhen-related nature spells and abilities.