And I don't support this what you said. Because of pirates I can enjoy games like crysis warhead with a dearthorization tool. Yes you have a point but restricting games to install time is dumb. Why not use steam and only steam and no other drm protection.Lord Krunk said:
DRM, Censorship, you brought it on yourselves.
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Have never pirated a game, that i can re-call, have with movies and music, but have allways gone out and bought the proper version if i liked it, with games its different but i feel with music/film piracy doesnt harm or stop them being made it harms bad movies or music being made, there have been many times i have been greatfull for watching a download and knowing i should never ever buy something (alone in the Dark im looking at you.
I think if we as a consuming public are gonna make a concerted effort not to pirate then game dev, movie producers and record companies should for their half of the bargin agree to stop releasing crappy games/movies/artist.
I think if we as a consuming public are gonna make a concerted effort not to pirate then game dev, movie producers and record companies should for their half of the bargin agree to stop releasing crappy games/movies/artist.
Sure piracy is a bad thing BUT there are other shades to it:
1. Censorship is a problem in many countrys (in some it's sex in others it's violence) and so is a crapy translation thus to get a game in its origina state piracy is a much easier way that ordering from abroad (stil did that for l4d).
2. The unpirated product looses its apeal. Drm is one facet of this but i thing what is worse is the lack of any attention to the Box and the extras.
Now you get a pdf with the manual and everything is packed into that standard Dvd box. I remember when I was young it was nice to read into the manual while waiting to get home. I remember manuals that contained some background story interesting artwork and useful informations that made it worthwhile to open it after you got into the game. And there were extras in a box that nowadays are only in some collectors edition which costs a fortune. Whith things that way there is only morals that favor the unpirated game; now when it comes to moral modern society already goes down the drain...
Edit: Best protection would probably be this one: Remove all protection and just fill in ne screen at the instalation which says:
"There is a good chance you pirated this game. Go ahead play it, we won't stop you but if you enjoyed it buy a real copy or spend real money on the addon. Thanks"
1. Censorship is a problem in many countrys (in some it's sex in others it's violence) and so is a crapy translation thus to get a game in its origina state piracy is a much easier way that ordering from abroad (stil did that for l4d).
2. The unpirated product looses its apeal. Drm is one facet of this but i thing what is worse is the lack of any attention to the Box and the extras.
Now you get a pdf with the manual and everything is packed into that standard Dvd box. I remember when I was young it was nice to read into the manual while waiting to get home. I remember manuals that contained some background story interesting artwork and useful informations that made it worthwhile to open it after you got into the game. And there were extras in a box that nowadays are only in some collectors edition which costs a fortune. Whith things that way there is only morals that favor the unpirated game; now when it comes to moral modern society already goes down the drain...
Edit: Best protection would probably be this one: Remove all protection and just fill in ne screen at the instalation which says:
"There is a good chance you pirated this game. Go ahead play it, we won't stop you but if you enjoyed it buy a real copy or spend real money on the addon. Thanks"
I've been blessed by decent wealth so I afforded all of my 40 PC titles. As for music, I've bought tons of CD's but I also go to playlist.com and check the links to music to see if I can download it from that site, but only for a song or two.
DRM does nothing to stop pirates and only creates problems for legitimate customers. In order to play the games they have legitimately purchased they must turn to cracks and pirates. Then they find out just how easy it is to pirate.Lord Krunk said:
DRM is what is known as "fucking stupid".
The reason I ***** as hell about DRM is because it doesn't work. It works only on the people who actually buy the games.
You think no one downloaded Spore illegaly? The DRM sure as hell didn't stop anything there, and only the people who actually bought the game got the DRM. That's a bit annoying, because it's one hell of an inconvinience.
DRM, cd-keys, whatever, is never going to stop pirates, and that's why I'm against it. It's attacking the problem from the wrong side. The only people affected by that are the people who actually buy the game. The one's that didn't do anything wrong.
Hell, I'm a developer myself. I want people to buy games. I strongly dislike the pirate movement, that doesn't mean I'm going to punish my customers for purchasing my products. THEY didn't bring this on themselves. Pirates brought in on THEM.
Going about this the right way would be getting people to want to pay for what they get, and to get people to think it's worth it. If you get more enjoyment out of a pirated product (because you don't have to bother with DRM and such, and you don't get anything extra anyway, from the purchased game), then no one's going to buy it. They pay to get something worse, than they could get for free. There's no consequences to piracy as it stands now. That's where the fight against piracy should start.
You need to make people not want to pirate games. Make them worth the money, give extra incentive not to pirate it, throw in a nice manual, a beautiful case, maybe something else nice, or extra content. Remove the intrusive DRM and make sure you have a finished game when you release it, so that the pirated version is worse than your game instead of the other way around (and that your game is actually worth the money).
The governments around the world are equally guilty. Piracy is a crime. That should be noticeable. Hardly anyone has ever gotten caught for piracy. The pirate bay is up and running, with no repercussions. People can upload files there without repercussions. It's a crime, and a serious one. It should be treated as one. Commiting it should be punished. Not the paying customer.
You think no one downloaded Spore illegaly? The DRM sure as hell didn't stop anything there, and only the people who actually bought the game got the DRM. That's a bit annoying, because it's one hell of an inconvinience.
DRM, cd-keys, whatever, is never going to stop pirates, and that's why I'm against it. It's attacking the problem from the wrong side. The only people affected by that are the people who actually buy the game. The one's that didn't do anything wrong.
Hell, I'm a developer myself. I want people to buy games. I strongly dislike the pirate movement, that doesn't mean I'm going to punish my customers for purchasing my products. THEY didn't bring this on themselves. Pirates brought in on THEM.
Going about this the right way would be getting people to want to pay for what they get, and to get people to think it's worth it. If you get more enjoyment out of a pirated product (because you don't have to bother with DRM and such, and you don't get anything extra anyway, from the purchased game), then no one's going to buy it. They pay to get something worse, than they could get for free. There's no consequences to piracy as it stands now. That's where the fight against piracy should start.
You need to make people not want to pirate games. Make them worth the money, give extra incentive not to pirate it, throw in a nice manual, a beautiful case, maybe something else nice, or extra content. Remove the intrusive DRM and make sure you have a finished game when you release it, so that the pirated version is worse than your game instead of the other way around (and that your game is actually worth the money).
The governments around the world are equally guilty. Piracy is a crime. That should be noticeable. Hardly anyone has ever gotten caught for piracy. The pirate bay is up and running, with no repercussions. People can upload files there without repercussions. It's a crime, and a serious one. It should be treated as one. Commiting it should be punished. Not the paying customer.
No excuse any more http://www.gog.com/en/catalogue/iain62a said:
On topic though I'll admit in my younger days I was a pirate, I'm not proud of it but it what is done is done. But in my day the DRM was nothing more than a CD key and a no-cd crack the site I frequented (and still do as its a good community)had around 200k members. Now that there is all this new DRM the site has over 700k members so not only is piracy a growing problem but DRM does very little to prevent it and actually draws peoples attension to the problem and makes them seek out alternatives.
I have grown up a lot in the last few years and see the error of my ways and support the developers rights to protect their products I only wish they could do so in a way that didn't have the people that have paid for the product. So as it stands I support DRM but not in its current format, but there is no truly effective DRM system, although the future of TPM and hardware DRM systems is probably the most likly alternative.
That would fall under fair use, depending on what you did with those photocopies.Anonymouse said:
Piracy is also theft, you don't own the content you own the thing it's on and have the right to use the content.
That said, I pirate, a lot, mostly fan subbed anime though.
How exactly does piracy harm the game industry? Is it because pirates were never going to buy that game, or because they have a chance to test a game before deciding it's shit.Lord Krunk said:
The latter is a worthless argument because you're saying "developers and publishers are allowed to rip you off with shit games"
The former is usually the group that does not want to pay for games.
To close this post, the only law broken by downloading games, is copyright and a comparable crime would be to exactly replicate that mercedes you want, copying pages from a book, and copying movies or music.
I think if the sort of DRM people complain about actually worked then it might have a few less complainers, as it is the consumer gets restricted while the pirater can install a cracked version as many times as he wants. If you're gonna put piracy-protection on a game make sure it's not the overly-restrictive and/or potentially damaging kind that encourages more people to use cracks/pirate your game. The first time I ever seriously considered pirating a newly-released game was when I realised Far Cry 2 had DRM, as it is my PC was not up to scratch to play it and I settled for the 360 version.
In Britain, because I own a TV for gaming and DVD purposes, I'm forced to pay for a TV liscense to fund a corporation whose programming I don't even watch, radio services I don't listen to and whose websites I don't make use of. If you ask me, the BBC are the pirates.
Bravo. I'm going to say, "this" and just leave before the mass piracy bashing begins. DRM only affects those dumb enough to submit to its fascist terms of how you are allowed to enjoy the product you paid for. I'm not saying I condone pirating the newest PC games (I'm not a PC gamer, and wouldn't pay for an EA game even if it was a sequel to Chrono Trigger or contained the cure for Cancer), but DRM just doesn't affect pirates. At all.Anonymouse said:
I hate to say this (because of the ire I expect to have heaped upon me by wannabe anti-gun lobbyists), but I would liken DRM to a lot of the useless gun laws we have now. People who are going to break one big law aren't going to abide by the other little laws, no matter how many of them there are. A guy who wants to crack a game and distribute it to 5,000,000 people isn't going to abide by download limit rules.
With that, I leave.
Oh, and to the guy that said they found tons of piracy support? No. Just no. The Escapist STILL seems to be primarily anti-piracy, at least from what I've seen. This topic is a good example. The anti-piracy people here seem to outnumber the pro-piracy folks by at least two-to-one (as long as we count people with a post count of more than 100-not the folks who registered just so they could yap about how much they love ZP.)
And all of those other examples are also illegal.Flour said:
Yes, a developer is allowed to rip you off with shit games. You have a right not to buy them.
It hurts the gaming industry because people would have bought the games if they couldn't download them for free, because if they didn't they wouldn't have any games.
Seriously, it's people with attitudes like yours that is what's wrong with this whole business. The pirates aren't hurting anyone? So why are they a problem? Why should they get the product of people's hard work for free?
I'm going to kick this off with: I am completely against pirating and consider it straight up theft.Flour said:
I hear this 'there is no loss, because pirates were never would have bought the game' argument frequently, but I can't get around that people have this crazy, stupid sense of entitlement about a game. If they aren't going to pay for it, as the law requires, then they don't get to have it. They have no right to have it. And if they don't have the money to get it, but want it...too freaking bad. Suck it up! I want a new car without a shitty transmission, but I'd got to live within my means. And that goes for everyone. someone 'wanting' something isn't grounds for theft or illegal activity. That's simply called 'motive'.
And if you're 'just going to test it to see if you like it', then get the demo. What? No demo? Then too freaking bad. Read the game reviews. No demo isn't a justification for theft. You aren't entitled to 'test' the game. It is what it is. 'Buyer Beware'. I'm not going to steal a loaf of bread to see if I like the brand. Does it suck? Sure, when you get a shitty game. That's why you do your freaking research. Read reviews. Heck, read many reviews. Everyone says it sucks? Don't get it. Everyone says it's awesome? I'd say take a chance.
Seriously, this sense of entitlement needs to go.
I pirate games to try them out, and if they're good then I buy the full version. 9 times out of 10 I wouldn't have bought the game otherwise.
If anything, it's the game rental companies that suffer from this.
DRM just punishes the end user (if you pirate a game, chances are you'll cut the DRM crap out of it) 3 installs and then you can never use the game again, who the hell thought that was a good idea?
I think, the way this whole issue will be worked around is by making games much more 'online accessible', where you need an account to play. You can still pirate but you lose out on a lot of the content (Which is why everyone who plays WoW, or D2, or GW buys the game compared to normal games).
It's just like nature, predators and prey. Evolve or die.
If anything, it's the game rental companies that suffer from this.
DRM just punishes the end user (if you pirate a game, chances are you'll cut the DRM crap out of it) 3 installs and then you can never use the game again, who the hell thought that was a good idea?
I think, the way this whole issue will be worked around is by making games much more 'online accessible', where you need an account to play. You can still pirate but you lose out on a lot of the content (Which is why everyone who plays WoW, or D2, or GW buys the game compared to normal games).
It's just like nature, predators and prey. Evolve or die.
I gotta say, I think that they did go a bit far. I'm not the kinda pirate that hordes hundreds of albums and such, but if a band has a single song that I like, I'm not buying the whole bloody album. And as for games, I don't know why people would do this? Back when I was poor, I had a modded Xbox so I could have games on it, it's a pain the ass. On computer, I have a friend that's too cheap to spend $20 on Diablo. His answer to multiplayer? "oh, download this VPN client to simulate a network. Make sure you have version x or issues will come up. Make sure you have x, y, and z worked out on your PC settings and ports or we can't connect." I asked why we can't just use BNET, and he things that $20 is too expensive, cheap bastard...
Net net, I bash DRM in GAMES much more than music. I can understand music. Games, however, they can promote the sale of games by things like BNET, make sure that it's so convoluted to get around, that no one in their right mind would say "yup, this is worth not paying $50". I'd rather nail my hand to a door than some of the twisted work arounds my cheap ass friends have...
Net net, I bash DRM in GAMES much more than music. I can understand music. Games, however, they can promote the sale of games by things like BNET, make sure that it's so convoluted to get around, that no one in their right mind would say "yup, this is worth not paying $50". I'd rather nail my hand to a door than some of the twisted work arounds my cheap ass friends have...