"dumbed down for the console gamer"

[Midnight Crossroads]

Am I supposed to believe that developers are lazy because you said so? Where's your proof?

*sigh*
At the risk of sounding redundant, my example of Dragon Age is a fantastic example of multiplatform development. The console version gets the game suited to the console, and the PC version gets a version suited to that platform (Higher resolution textures, completely different control scheme, different UI, different camera angle). That is a great multiplatform release.

Developers need to take the time to realize what they are developing for. Now whether it's laziness, pressure from publishers, or budget issues, some simply don't. And that's the developer's fault/problem, not the console's fault.

That's my over-all point here: Consoles aren't responsible for crappy PC ports. Developers are.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't devs devote entire years of their lives, gamble millions of dollars, and place the future of their company on a single game? Then they're expected to split their attention between multiple platforms which all require individual attention, yes?

If this is true, it sounds less like the devs are doing it to spite the PC, and more because they need to be sure they have a job at the end of the year. Meaning they don't actually have much of a choice in the matter.

I don't know much about the development of games, so I may be completely wrong here.

 

[CRoone]

I'd figure that being able to do the same operations as mapped to a computer keyboard with a controller that has less than half the number of buttons on it would be considered a mark of efficiency, not of 'dumbing down'.
Let's never forget, though, that both sides play host to people that give them bad publicity. Overall, I figure that most such people have probably forgotten what it means to play 'for fun'.

 

[TestMonkeyNo2]

"Dumbed down for consoles" is a legitimate thing. I agree that the wording might be offensive, especially to those types that identify as a "console user" rather than a "computer user".

It has to do with how the person can interact with the game, not with the maturity level or intelligence level. The number of actions that can reasonably be performed with a console controller is vastly inferior to the number of actions that can be performed by a keyboard and mouse. That is all that the phrase "dumbed down for console" is referring to.

It just so happens that altering the number of accurate interactions that can be performed by the player has some serious consequences for gameplay and game interfaces.


You need look no further than the amazing games The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind and Deus Ex for examples. The first editions of these games were created for a mouse a keyboard and boast a high level of complexity to their inventory systems, the depth of the roleplaying, and the complexity of the levels. The keyboard and mouse allowed the developers to create a complex world due to the complexity of the controls they knew players would be using.

Looking at their sequels(Oblivion and Invisible War) there is a dramatic difference in the complexity and therefore depth of what was done with the inventory, roleplaying, and complexity of interactions. This was due to the games being built around the xbox controller as the main form of player interaction with the world. These games, in the eyes of many players, suffered from this lack of complexity because the main selling point of their predecessors was the high level of complexity and depth that arose from designing the game around the mouse and keyboard.

Being a player that enjoys complexity and depth I would have preferred that Deus Ex, Oblivion, and Supreme Commander cater to their original audience, the PC gamers, as this would have allowed them to continue the complexity that was seen in the original products.



TL,DR: "Dumbing down" is referring to the level of complex interactions a player can perform in a game. This is limited by the complexity of the interactive controls available to the player. This is why it is called "Dumbing down", and actually has nothing to do with maturity or intelligence level, although the games may appear "simple" in comparison to previous titles. Look at Deus Ex, Morrowind, Supreme Commander.

 

[Pyro Paul]

It's used because people are ridiculous. I did a blog post on this recently, and the entire notion is beyond silly. 'Dumbed down for consoles' is just the insecure PC elitist's excuse to push blame from poor development (Because they love the developer) to other, 'inferior' platforms. It's a joke.

counter point.

developers working with in the constraints of an inferior system is an example said system 'dumbing down' the medium.

 

[Broken Orange]

Boy, I sure wish that I didn't have to go to school and spend all my money on gas because I can't get mommy and daddy to drive me everywhere so that I can spend thousands of dollars on a PC rig to play all the hardcore games. I guess i'm stuck with the (relatively) cheap consoles and their crappy games. You PC elitist are so [i[lucky[/i] that you can just spend your money on getting brand new RAM drives every 6 months while I'm stuck with just one singe purchase towards my console.

I wish that I could play Dragon Ages the way it was meant to be played, not as a caveman, smashing buttons hoping to win. It sucks how all FPS on the consoles are completely inaccurate and I can't shoot the wings of a fly with a mouse. Life really sucks for us console players.

You lucky bastards.

 

[deth2munkies]

It's used because people are ridiculous. I did a blog post on this recently, and the entire notion is beyond silly. 'Dumbed down for consoles' is just the insecure PC elitist's excuse to push blame from poor development (Because they love the developer) to other, 'inferior' platforms. It's a joke.

No, it's not. Perfect example:

Dragon Age: Origins. It has an Infinity Engine-esque secondary tactical view for PC gamers and no such thing for consoles. The reason it was removed: There weren't enough buttons for it. (Edit note: This is an example of differences in mechanics, not an example of a game being dumbed down.)

"Dumbed-down" is merely a more flagrant phrase for "simplified" and a good amount of games are dumping extra features and PC-friendly interfaces for more console-friendly ones and that has PC gamers (like myself) in a bit of a tizzy.

As an example: Modern Warfare 2 was made for consoles. The PC version is a port. Despite the fact that mouse and keyboard is the superior interface and makes up a large part of the market share, they chose to nix dedicated servers and many other online features, instead creating a pseudo-Xbox Live style joining system with more bugs than a beehive.

The reason PC gamers aren't happy is because the major genres for PC users: Shooters, RPGs, and Strategy games, are being more and more commonly changed to a more console friendly control scheme than a PC friendly one. The aforementioned MW2 is a good example of the shooter, and a decent example of the RPG (let's use a Yahtzee example so everyone understands) would be the leap from System Shock 2 to Bioshock. It removed a ton of the customization and the entire inventory screen in lieu of making it more accessible to console players coming from Halo backgrounds.

That said, this isn't one of my "HEY, I'M A PC GAMER AND I'M PISSED OFF" soapbox issues (well, MW2 is), but it IS a real issue and not the cop out you make it seem to be.

Boy, I sure wish that I didn't have to go to school and spend all my money on gas because I can't get mommy and daddy to drive me everywhere so that I can spend thousands of dollars on a PC rig to play all the hardcore games. I guess i'm stuck with the (relatively) cheap consoles and their crappy games. You PC elitist are so [i[lucky[/i] that you can just spend your money on getting brand new RAM drives every 6 months while I'm stuck with just one singe purchase towards my console.

I wish that I could play Dragon Ages the way it was meant to be played, not as a caveman, smashing buttons hoping to win. It sucks how all FPS on the consoles are completely inaccurate and I can't shoot the wings of a fly with a mouse. Life really sucks for us console players.

You lucky bastards.

Funny story, for slightly more than a new console, you can get a rig that runs pretty much any game on medium or low settings in addition to being able to browse the internet and run all sorts of other nice stuff.

 

[Stabby Joe]

I want a PC only gamer to play through Demon's Souls or Megaman 9.

I'm mainly a pc gamer and I played through Demon's Souls.... was there a point to that?

Because the notion a game is "dumbed down for the console" suggests that console games are simple minded cakewalks.

I want a PC only gamer to play through Demon's Souls or Megaman 9.

PSN is Travajador. I don't use the PS3 anymore, but if it's online at any time you can look up my trophies from beating Demon's Souls to hell.

Then can I also assume you know what I'm referring to when I point those out?

Games like that used to be constant years ago. So while it refutes the notion that consoles can't host hardcore or complex games, it doesn't contest the noticeable trend of increasing levels of handholding and leniency, and the decreasing levels of hard consequences (which is part of what defines a good W/PCRPG to me particularly. Now they are afraid of gamers not seeing every bit of content in the game) and problem solving.

I would view this as more of a slide in gaming in general. The PC section seems less each time, at least with mainstream exclusives. I do however think the hardcore has crept in, in some respect with a more emphasis on diffiuclty as a positive aspect such as the coverage of hardcore mode on New Vegas. Now granted I doubt it will be anywhere the level of brutality of Fallout 2 but it should be a step above Fallout 3.

If it's stripped features however, I'd blame the hardware, not the users.

 

[Broken Orange]

Boy, I sure wish that I didn't have to go to school and spend all my money on gas because I can't get mommy and daddy to drive me everywhere so that I can spend thousands of dollars on a PC rig to play all the hardcore games. I guess i'm stuck with the (relatively) cheap consoles and their crappy games. You PC elitist are so [i[lucky[/i] that you can just spend your money on getting brand new RAM drives every 6 months while I'm stuck with just one singe purchase towards my console.

I wish that I could play Dragon Ages the way it was meant to be played, not as a caveman, smashing buttons hoping to win. It sucks how all FPS on the consoles are completely inaccurate and I can't shoot the wings of a fly with a mouse. Life really sucks for us console players.

You lucky bastards.

Funny story, for slightly more than a new console, you can get a rig that runs pretty much any game on medium or low settings in addition to being able to browse the internet and run all sorts of other nice stuff.

[sub] Ssh! I am trying to be an satirists. Don't you dare ruin this for me![/sub]

 

[TheSentinel]

Man, all games nowadays are dumbed down. I mean, look at Ultima IV! Any game that is not as complex as Ultima IV is complete trash and should only be played by drooling infants!

 

[fulano]

Morrowind vs Oblivion. Enough said.

Morrowind was a freaking fantastic game, ESPECIALLY with mods. But it didn't play so well on consoles. Oblivion was a dumbed down POS single-player MMO, played well on on consoles if you were brain dead; NEEDED mods to be worth playing in the least.

Are you talking about what, exactly? How complex the game was, or what? That had it been made for consoles the game would have a had a higher learning curve ergo making it better overall? Better AI, better combat, what?

Unless you elaborate the comparison in useless.

 

[Machocruz]

I want a PC only gamer to play through Demon's Souls or Megaman 9.

I'm mainly a pc gamer and I played through Demon's Souls.... was there a point to that?

Because the notion a game is "dumbed down for the console" suggests that console games are simple minded cakewalks.

I want a PC only gamer to play through Demon's Souls or Megaman 9.

PSN is Travajador. I don't use the PS3 anymore, but if it's online at any time you can look up my trophies from beating Demon's Souls to hell.

Then can I also assume you know what I'm referring to when I point those out?

Games like that used to be constant years ago. So while it refutes the notion that consoles can't host hardcore or complex games, it doesn't contest the noticeable trend of increasing levels of handholding and leniency, and the decreasing levels of hard consequences (which is part of what defines a good W/PCRPG to me particularly. Now they are afraid of gamers not seeing every bit of content in the game) and problem solving.

I would view this as more of a slide in gaming in general. The PC section seems less each time, at least with mainstream exclusives. I do however think the hardcore has crept in, in some respect with a more emphasis on diffiuclty as a positive aspect such as the coverage of hardcore mode on New Vegas. Now granted I doubt it will be anywhere the level of brutality of Fallout 2 but it should be a step above Fallout 3.

If it's stripped features however, I'd blame the hardware, not the users.

I was actually shocked when I read that there was going to be Hardcore mode, seeing as how Fallout 3 was and is one of the prime examples people use in "dumbing down" argument, of which I was initially guilty until the game grew on me.

Just one more reason for me to believe that Obsidian working on this game is for the better.

Stripped features is a considerable problem, but the widespread implementation of 'hand-holding' devices is just plain irritating. For all their other compromises, Deus Ex IW and Thief 3 still made you find your own way and I still enjoyed them. I absolutely loath being told which platform to jump to (Enslaved glowies), exactly which path to travel, or what ability to use at a specific point. Not only are they unnecessary, but they are also visual distractions that cheapen the look of the game and subtract from immersion. Can't stand 'em.

 

[Netrigan]

For everyone using System Shock 2 as an example of superior PC design, I would like you to name 5 FPS games of equivalent complexity.

There are very, very few games that went that route pre-console and the reason is obvious. Deus Ex was a very successful game in this mold, but it was far easier to copy Half-Life (with it's non-existent inventory system). Half-Life was much closer to the tried and true FPS formula and money tends to play it safe.

When I get home I'll expand on these thoughts (way too hard to do this on an iPhone), but console devs playing it safe is a much older trend. Doom 3 was dumbed down more than Bioshock or Call Of Duty 4 and that one was aimed squarely at the PC crowd.

 

[coolman9899]

Is that all it is? Buttons? I hardly think it's necessary to have a button for every possible action in the game. Oh, you need to wipe your butt to gain 3 crap? press f6. Maybe I'm just talking about the mmo people because most pc games I play use wasd and mouse which is less buttons than a standard console controller.

what the fuck do you play?

 

[coolman9899]

I want a PC only gamer to play through Demon's Souls or Megaman 9.

I'm mainly a pc gamer and I played through Demon's Souls.... was there a point to that?

Because the notion a game is "dumbed down for the console" suggests that console games are simple minded cakewalks.

I want a PC only gamer to play through Demon's Souls or Megaman 9.

PSN is Travajador. I don't use the PS3 anymore, but if it's online at any time you can look up my trophies from beating Demon's Souls to hell.

Then can I also assume you know what I'm referring to when I point those out?

ummm they are simple I got a 21 ks online in mw at my friends house in the first time I touched the bloody game

 

[hawkeye52]

they say its dumbed down because they have to fit the control scheme around consoles so if say a game shifts from a computer focus to a console focus you can expect a lot of controls removed e.g. the lean function in cod6.

also they do sometimes have to make the games more easily accessible to some people if they want to appeal to the non hardcore market which is shown in the differences in the leveling and combat systems of oblivion and morrowind. also can you imagine if they tried to port a game like the nwn series to console with all the hotkeys and complexities that game has

 

[Bruce Edwards]

The whole 'Dumbed Down for Console Gamer' meme comes out of a sense of abandonment and anger from PC Gamers (I am one) who have seen the best franchises and developers jump ship.

The Call of Duty games. Rainbow Six. Ghost Recon. Prince of Persia. Everything Bioware does now. Each of these has been taken from their PC roots, and retooled for consoles. In the process they each lose something that made them great, in order to run on Console hardware with Console controls et-ceterah.

(Except for Prince of Persia, which is arguably better away from the PC).

I can see why the developers and publishers do this. Console sales are usually at least three times that of the PC. (Disclaimer: I have no figures to back this up).

It's still galling though. Especially as even when something comes out that seems PC focused (see: Dragon Age) and does unexpectedly well, the sequel is inevitably console-ised.

Some PC gamers, bereft of games and stuck with the knowledge that the sequel to any successful game they like will inevitably be limited by the number of controls on a handstick, cling to the idea that they are better than console gamers.

Oh, and exposure to XBox live does little to disabuse anyone of this notion. I now own an XBox, and will never ever ever play multiplayer again.

 

[Twilight_guy]

"Dumbed down for consoles" is a way for PC players to be big elitist dicks. Just remember that a mouse and keyboard do not make someone superior but his attitude can make him a douche.

 

[bue519]

Its probably because you have ruined every awesome franchise, EX: look at Fallout 2 compared to 3. One was awesome, the other was a dumbed down buggy piece of trash. Just please play Halo Wars, and leave the rest of the RTS's alone.

finally, someone who agrees with me about the fallout series! i was so pissed when they turned my beloved rpg, into a first person shooter

Thanks, can you please tell that to the twenty people who message me about trolling because I think Fallout 3 is a disappointment.

 

[bue519]

Its probably because you have ruined every awesome franchise, EX: look at Fallout 2 compared to 3. One was awesome, the other was a dumbed down buggy piece of trash. Just please play Halo Wars, and leave the rest of the RTS's alone.

Damn trolls.

Hmm coming from the dude with a two a word post thats a bit insulting. Atleast I adressed the OP, your trolling other peoples posts. And I'm sorry that I wanted to end this persons post early before they talk about how games today are golden encrusted gods and how the games of yesteryear have bad graphics and confusing mechanics. I hope that when your done with puberty, people will destroy you beloved franchise.
Damn trolls.