"dumbed down for the console gamer"

[Direwolf750]

there are pleany of very loud idiots on the PC's, don't kid yourself. However, as both, I must admit that there are more annoying people on the console games. In my opinion it really comes down to money, and likeliness of repercussions. The people who want to be obnoxious on the internet find hard-to-regulate halo and modern warfare games a much safer bastion than games they can easily be banned from. Also, it takes a lot more money shelled out to get a decent gaming computer, about 3 times the cost of an xbox 360 for a bare bones gaming computer unless you build it yourself. laptops are even more.

 

[JeanLuc761]

To be honest, PC Gamers have no one to blame but themselves. Their constant complaints about the price of games / expansions / dlc, the rampant piracy, the graphics whores... they are what lead gaming companies to realize that the console market is where they can make their money, and as such, have targeted it as a platform.

If game developers could target PC only and still be profitable, like StarCraft II (and yes you PC elitists had to ***** about THAT too) then gaming companies would target PC only. You reap what you sow PC gamers, and your flat out refusal to financially support your game developers mean that they are seeking greener pastures elsewhere and you are left with the resulting lip service.

Man, this is one of the most -facepalm- worthy comments I've seen in a while. Let's take a look at a few assumptions you made here:

1) Most, if not all PC gamers are elitists who complain about everything.
2) Console gamers complain less, and are more grateful to developers
3) PC gamers refuse to financially support developers

Every single one of those is either morbidly exaggerated or flat-out wrong. I've seen console gamers ***** their brains out over Bungie changing a single weapon for the next Halo game. I've seen PC gamers spend thousands of dollars both in retail and digital distribution, all in support of developers. Finally, I've seen plenty of level-headed PC gamers who calmly ask the developer/manufacturer to explain their reasoning for *insert what people are mad about*.

 

[repeating integers]

Elitism ahoy!

Misconception clearing time:

1) FPS games work fine on consoles. Those who actively refuse to accept this (rather than having tried both and just deciding they like PC FPS games better - I like those kinds of people, they're reasonable) have usually been raised on a strict diet of PC FPS games, so somewhat understandably are unable to adapt to the differences and also cannot see how anyone else could.

2) Console gamers don't all have attention deficits. Getting over the ridiculous idea that the platform a person plays on completely defines their entire personality, there seems to be some sort of consensus among PC gamers that console gamers fall asleep when playing anything other than Halo or CoD. Which, I suppose, is why I - an avid 360 gamer - really enjoyed Mass Effect, both 1 and 2. Let's take this further, in fact - if one were to assume that console gamers don't have the attention span to handle any particularly deep or thought-provoking, then logically, one would have to assume that console gamers are unable to handle deep or thought-provoking books, TV series, and films. As someone who went to see and thoroughly enjoyed Inception, I can say that is utter cobblers.

 

[Mcface]

It's used because people are ridiculous. I did a blog post on this recently, and the entire notion is beyond silly. 'Dumbed down for consoles' is just the insecure PC elitist's excuse to push blame from poor development (Because they love the developer) to other, 'inferior' platforms. It's a joke.

This.

I've seen more and more shoddy PC ports, and just awful PC exclusives come out in the last year or two that have really lead to be playing my consoles more often.
Shooters on PC are almost abyssal now. With the amount of cheating, glitches, bad porting and lack of support, im almost always going to chose a console version over a PC version.

Exception would be RPGs and RTS games.

As for the XBL annoying people, I would have to disagree fully. I have hundreds of hours on XBL, and have really run into very few assholes and loudmouths (playing halo is the only exception, there were quite a few there. but mostly just annoying 10 year olds)

However while on my PS3, I've run into about as many assholes, and I've have my PS3 for less than a year, where as i've had my 360 since launch. Another annoying this is on PS3, almost half of the games i would join, there would be people who spoke a different language. (VERY annoying if you cant understand a word anyone is saying)

 

[lacktheknack]

I find that insulting.

I do a fair share of console gaming my self and I feel it's more like "made complicated for the PC gamer"

I mean, who can keep track of all those randome buttons???????

Anyone with a good handspan. Reconfiguring keys fixes that.

OT: I don't know why. It seems silly.

 

[Caliostro]

the majority of console gamers are mature but there is a loud majority that gives us a bad name.

Obvious typo aside, you, and assuming you are part of the "mature" crowd since I don't know you, really aren't the majority...

It's not true that all console gamers are hopeless brain dead retards, that's the inevitable "hyperbolization" resulting from constant fanboy conflict taking it's toll on reasonable arguments. I was a console gamer as well as a PC gamer too for most of my life (with the exception of this last generation which, honestly, was a significant disappointment in my book), but here's the thing: Consoles ARE dumbed down PCs.

It's like saying "majority of the Wii demographic are kids or people who are to games what ICP fans are to real music". Yes, it's always a gross exaggeration, but it IS based on truth, because that's exactly who the Wii targets.

This isn't to say the PC is perfect, or that sometimes it isn't needlessly complicated (if you ever even looked at an EvE online screenshot you know they can be), but Consoles ARE dumbed down PCs. That's exactly what they were built to be. Cheap, relatively hassle free, "gaming computers" for people who can't be bothered to learn to deal with a "proper" computer. This, obviously, reflects on it's target demographic, and consequently, the games.

Just think of your average console controller if you're in doubt. It's insanely less practical or useful for most genres. Your perfectly average PC setup has the standard Windows keyboard with around 104 keys + 3 keys from the mouse + mouse wheel + mouse for precise directional input. An xbox 360 controller has around 8/9 buttons, 1 directional pad (accounting for 4 more buttons), and 2 clumsy and horribly inaccurate analogues for directional inputs. It's made to be the most practical it can be, while remaining as non-threatening and easy to use as physically possible. The Wii takes that to the extreme, being about as precise and accurate as painting details with a cow's entire ass but easy enough to use that even a functionally retarded 8 year old child wouldn't feel threatened by it.

So yes, hardware limitations AND target demographic do mean that games are generally dumbed down for consoles. Which isn't to say that ALL console gamers are mouth breathers, or that all console games are MW2 (i.e: pile of cancerous shit)... But most are... That's who they're targeting...

 

[Ewyx]

1. Play BioShock
2. Play System Shock 2
3. Realize how terrible BioShock is compared to what it could be
4. Realize that certain UI elements are hard to effectively implement on the console controller scheme.
5. To the forums!

 

[Irridium]

Well I'll point to the example I used in the blog post I made: Dragon Age. Dragon Age is very very different on the PC as it is on the console. The PC version gets higher resolution graphics, a totally different camera angle, and a completely different control scheme. The console version gets lower resolution graphics, and a controller-friendly control scheme. Both parties get what they want and get to play the same game.

That's proper multiplatform development.

And what sucks is that it seems Bioware's treating the PC and consoles the same with DA2's development. This frightens me because instead of playing to each platform's strenghts, as they did with Dragon Age, they're just making it all the same, which could negatively affect all platforms.

I thought that Bioware had stated that they were making the console version of Dragon Age 2 more action-oriented, but keeping the PC version more strategy oriented. Where did you hear any different?

In a Game Informer from a while ago. In it it stated that Bioware will try to make sure the game is exactly the same across all platforms. Whether or not they were referring to graphics, gameplay, or anything else is unclear though. However usually when thats said it usually ends with a shoddy PC/console port.

Plus it makes me worried about mods. The first game was moddable, very moddable. So far we haven't heard anything on it for DA2.

 

[Get_A_Grip_]

I really hate this phrase.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. But I'm far from being classified as dumb.
Just because I can't afford a gaming PC doesn't mean I should get a very inferior version of a game.

Bethesda. I'm looking at you!

 

[Arehexes]

Its probably because you have ruined every awesome franchise, EX: look at Fallout 2 compared to 3. One was awesome, the other was a dumbed down buggy piece of trash. Just please play Halo Wars, and leave the rest of the RTS's alone.

Logic issue, the devs of fallout 2 didn't make fallout 3. Nice try

 

[Atmos Duality]

Personally though, I don't really believe this sort of stuff anymore. If Devs aren't willing to work properly on cross platform development then they aren't good devs! Blaming other gamers is just childish.

Hating the gamers is childish; however, the market sets the standard.
How? Sales performance and test group results. Popular = sales.

Right now, that standard happens to strongly favor console design; for a multi-platform title, PC isn't profitable enough to warrant putting the extra effort to convert or adapt it.
"Git er done and get paid."

So yes, console gamers are to blame. There is no other logical conclusion.
But don't hate console gamers.

 

[Kurt Horsting]

I don't want to interrupt this mildly amusing flame war, but as a player of both consoles and pc's, I think it comes down mostly to the games themselves. I simply cannot play a shooter on console. I need a mouse and keyboard. It is frightening and confusing to me to use the analog stick to aim. The mouse is just that much better (to me anyway). And Starcraft 2 is pc only, and should stay that way.

I also play fighting games competitively, so I have to travel to different venues with my equipment (sticks, console, games, cloths, luggage, etc), It would be really hard for me to bring my rig everywhere I wanted to game. And bringing my console and games is usually optional, or if i want to play casuals in someones hotel or something. They just are more convenient. If I see a pc at a fighting game tourney, its usually a laptop with roms or something on them.

So ya, thats about it for me.

 

[Grey_Focks]

blech....I was thinking of responding to some of these posts, and trying to prove to them how stupid some of you are really sounding....but I'm tired, and I'd rather just post a quick response to the OP before going to play more borderlands.

When people say "dumbed down for the console" they aren't insulting console gamers, but they are saying that the control schemes (no mouse) provide limitations when developing for consoles that a dev wouldn't have if they were only developing for PC. There, that's it.

Now ofcourse, there are a few idiots out there who will just blame the consoles and everyone who owns a console, but you are just better off ignoring them. "PC elitists" are the worst type of fanboys, because they embrace their fanboy-ishness, and they really just cannot be argued with. Example? Look at the posts between Baby Tea and a few of the people quoting him. Look at the responses to him posting his blog-post. I swear a couple of them didn't even read the damn thing.
PC game fanboys are the worst type of fanboy because, to quote my late grandpa, "They act like their shit doesn't stink!"

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

Like many people I like both console and pc games, each for its own reasons which I don't think we really need to get into besides the fact that I cant do split screen on a PC... anyways, I always thought the term "dumbed down for the console gamers" was more due to the issue that a controller has like 12 buttons and a PC has over a hundred plus the options for drop downs.

Naturally there are differences in playstyle and games that will contribute to the term but that should be negligible as it is entirely opinion based.

 

[Xanadu84]

Although some people can't help but troll, the essence of this "Dumbed down for consoles" does not actually insult console gamers. In a way, it actually plays on the consoles strength. PC games are a bit more of a niche market, with more room for leeway. People playing PC games that arn't casual or browser based are probably "Core" Gamers. That is, the gamers who who like number-filled RPGs, complicated systems, and view games more as a hobby then as a distraction. Now plenty of "Core" gamers exist on consoles, and there is no real, appreciable difference between a core console and a core PC player. However, Console players ALSO have people who play games casually. For them, most developers have really streamlined many games to make them accessible, and therefore profitable, in a wider market. This is a good thing for core gamers: It encourages elegance over complexity, and makes designers rely on simple, elegant rules rather then piles upon piles of mechanics that make a deep, but indecipherable, play experience. But every once in a while, a developer will take something, and streamline it without managing to retain the elegance. Then, it gets jumped on for being, "Dumbed down". But its not so much an insult to consoles, so much as an aknowledgement that a game has evolved poorly.

Of course, no doubt this sentiment gets hijacked by Trolls on a regular basis.

 

[Arehexes]

I think Mass Effect is a good example of this.

Mass Effect 1: Focus on RPG and number building, had inventory management which was more like what's usual on the PC.

Mass Effect 2: Focus on Third Person Shooter aspects, inventory gone, armour removed, weapons simplified.

Shooters sell better, and most shooters are designed for the consoles. Thus, it makes sense that if you want to appeal to more of your audience, you make your game more of a shooter.
Thus, dumbing down for consoles.

It's not the fault of the players, it's the fault of the market.

Funny thing is Mass Effect was a Xbox game first not a PC game, PC came out later along so it's not a good example. Mass Effect's problem was it had to get more people to play so they chucked the RPG elements to get the Gears of Wars fan boys to enjoy it. (Gears Effect did not make me happy).

 

[XzarTheMad]

I don't think it's dumbed down as in intelectually. Mostly I use it about control schemes, which is the main drawback of the consoles. You can never achieve the same amount of different keys available on a console as you have on the PC, and so when you take a game and it uses "context sensisitve" control schemes, you can pretty much assume it was made to and ported from a console. That don't sit well with me; I have a million keys, six keys on my mouse, yet pressing E does everything? Why not use Q, R, T, V, X, C, Z, F, V, G...

Mostly I blame publishers who don't take the time to reconfigure the control scheme of a game to make it natural for the PC. A game like Borderlands, which I've played a lot, has horrible controls, and it's obvious it was made for a console. Using something will reload your gun, and you can't reconfigure it so that you reload exclusively on R instead. That's bad. And driving a car is W,S for movement and the mouse steers. You can't, as in most other games with cars (UT 2k4/UT 3 springs to mind here) look at the side of your car while moving forward, which makes for terrible driving sequenses. And when an entire DLC is all ABOUT driving (I'm looking at you, Knoxx), it becomes nigh intolerable.

Call me a bigot and an asshole, but I truly believe that the PC is superior to the console, also in terms of gameplay. Again, it's got nothing to do with maturity or intelect as OP suggests, rather, it's the limitations on consoles that means making stuff less grandiose. I seem to remember a game like TF2, where VALVe simply had to stop delivering content to it, because the content by now has grown so large it will barely fit on the console in regards of what is allocated to each game (and microsoft wanting pay, bla bla all that). When you have to limit your game because of space, even if it's just a little bit of limitation, you're still making an insufficient product compared to what you could (and should) make for the PC.

PC users aren't a "master race", and we don't percieve ourselves that way. Sure, some people do, but there are idiots in every single group and culture. I don't condemn people for using consoles; They're easier and more practical, and if you don't want the hassle of having to update drivers, upgrade your system and pay out the ass for it, I totally understand that. However, I still think people should be open about and accept that fact that ultimately, PCs are more capable than consoles. So far. Let's see what the future brings.

 

[jboking]

Why shouldn't I blame the platform when it's the primary reason why the developers make the decisions that they do?

That sounds a bit "She was dressed like a slut, your honour."

...the fuck?

Seriously, what?

If he doesn't come back to do it, allow me to explain. If you couldn't guess (I hope you could) what he is refering to is blaming ones misdeeds on the attraction of the misdeed.

In the case of the "She was dressed like a slut, your honour." He is referencing ones defense to rape being that that the person who was raped was dressed in a fasion that exsentuated their sexual features. He is using this analogy because your original statement is like saying that the developer shouldn't be blamed for making a worse game because the console was just BEGGING for them to do it. Baby Tea is right about one thing, it is always the developers choice as to if a game is dumbed down or not, and that a good developer will focus on how to use the best traits of the PC. However, I do see where an argument can be made on your side as well, suggesting that it doesn't matter that they did it, we should look at what motivated them to do it. which, in a large number of cases, is making the game more accessable to the larger audience on Consoles, some of which will be turned off by complexity(though not all consoles gamers would be), so they can make more money. Your argument is kind of Kantian as it focuses on the intent, the motivation, rather than the act itself. A developer should be focused on making a quality game that many can enjoy, but because of the way the industry works, they are focused on what sells.


Making a good game/gaming experience so many can enjoy it- good intent
Making a good game/gaming expereince so you can make money - bad intent
(though the two aren't mutually exclusive)

Spoiler: A GOOD WILL IS THE ONLY UNQUALIFIED GOOD, REPRESENT

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[small]I'm kind of strapped for time. If I can, I'll come back later and make this appear to be less gibberish and ranty[/small]