#DumpStarWars The new hashtag boycott

[Neverhoodian]

People are losing their shit over an unsubstantiated rumor on the internet? Is it Tuesday already?

Especially considering the main characters are basically "Not Kyle Katarn" and "Not Jan Orrs". Which points to the fact that they killed the Extended Universe specifically so they could plagiarize the crap out of it. That last bit right there is the reason people should boycott Rogue One, not the stupid political propaganda from both sides of the political spectrum.

I'll admit Jyn Erso sounds suspiciously similar to Jan Ors and Andor has a Kyle-esque appearance, but the "Legends" account of the theft was quite different from what we appear to be getting in Rogue One. Also, Kyle's mission was just one of several conflicting sources. The Star Wars Radio Drama, The Han Solo Trilogy, Jedi Dawn, X-Wing, Battlefront II and Star Wars: Lethal Alliance all had different accounts of how the Rebels obtained the Death Star plans. This huge continuity snarl was sloppily retconned later as Operation Skyhook.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Operation_Skyhook

This is one of the reasons why I don't mind the abandonment of the old EU. It had become a bloated, incoherent mess over the years due to lack of consistency and quality control. The new continuity can borrow as many "Legends" elements as they want for all I care, as long as the story makes some fucking sense this time around.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

I can't really believe it doesn't break someone's suspension of disbelief to see petty contemporary political jabs (commentary is a little too dignified a word for what I'm expecting) in their space fable. It's just that some think it's going to be a fun Team Us thing, but they'll change their mind eventually. It's not going to be super hilarious once the moment is past, just cringy and dated.

These creations should be for the ages, not for settling last week's scores.

That's fair.

I guess a lot of it depends on the speed with which the political allegory is dated. I'm weirdly reminded of Mark Millar's Ultimates run, which was so heavily loaded with references to the Iraq War and 9/11 that reading it today makes it seem all a bit ridiculous. On the other hand, you've got something like Watchmen, which retains a lot of its impact long after the contemporary politics of the Cold War have become extinct.

I'm sure I could find examples that weren't comic books, but I'm pressed for time right now.

I'm curious as to when a story about a group of surprisingly well-armed freedom fighters standing up to an oppressive Nazi-analogue using nothing but their wits, guile, chutzpah, and literal manifestations of moral superiority with nary a thought about finding compromise or showing the horrors such an insurgency would bring stopped being a right wing-compatible fantasy. I mean, the Force basically red-pills Finn at the start of VII.

Well, that was what I was wondering. The core Star Wars conflict of Empire vs. Rebels doesn't seem tied to a contemporary right or left wing ideology. It's only left-wing insofar as you consider fascism to be the definition of right-wing.

All this just reminds me why political labels are so fucking useless sometimes. Oh, well.

Especially considering the main characters are basically "Not Kyle Katarn" and "Not Jan Orrs". Which points to the fact that they killed the Extended Universe specifically so they could plagiarize the crap out of it. That last bit right there is the reason people should boycott Rogue One, not the stupid political propaganda from both sides of the political spectrum.

I would've quite liked it if they'd just kept the old EU names. They might be worried about baggage, but for people who played the old Jedi Knight games, it'd be a nice shout-out.

It's not like they're tied down to a specific plot, anyway. They've already just thrown their hands in the hair and declared the EU non-canon. They can afford a shout-out here and there. Then again, I was half-expecting Kylo Ren's real name to be Jacen, and they didn't do that for...some reason.

 

[Asita]

Many users pointed out how Star Wars had always been about rebelling against white supremacy

(Sorry to be quoting your quote, but I can't be bothered to get my own.)

Uh, surely not. The Empire was not "White Supremacy", Lando was no more oppressed by it than Han. That was a major part of the beauty of it. It was about rebelling against controlling authoritarians. All could be equally in it together.

If anything, all the massively overblown brouhaha about the "White Supremacists" (who are in reality a small fringe, and Trump's not it) looks a lot like enacting a "Phantom Menace" plot, just in time for the Clone Army of the RightThinking Elite to take over.

Eh, it's a stretch to say that it's about rebelling against white supremacy, but it's not entirely wrong either.

The Empire had a good deal of historical inspiration, including but not limited to Nazi Germany (but this was, however, the most immediately recognizable parallel for many people). Fans latched onto that and much of the now apocryphal Expanded Universe took the idea and ran with it. The Empire was semi-canonized as a human supremacist organization, wherein many of the near-exclusively human officers were openly racist and contemptuous of non-human cultures. Now, the Empire has always been an oppressive regime, so saying that Star Wars has always been about "rebelling against white supremacism" is wrong in several respects, but it is not wrong to say that the Empire has long had obvious supremacist overtones, though they were rarely the direct focus.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Eh, it's a stretch to say that it's about rebelling against white supremacy, but it's not entirely wrong either.

The Empire had a good deal of historical inspiration, including but not limited to Nazi Germany (but this was, however, the most immediately recognizable parallel for many people). Fans latched onto that and much of the now apocryphal Expanded Universe took the idea and ran with it. The Empire was semi-canonized as a human supremacist organization, wherein many of the near-exclusively human officers were openly racist and contemptuous of non-human cultures. Now, the Empire has always been an oppressive regime, so saying that Star Wars has always been about "rebelling against white supremacism" is wrong in several respects, but it is not wrong to say that the Empire has long had obvious supremacist overtones, though they were rarely the direct focus.

The Empire is canonically human-supremacist, not white-supremacist. Similar to the Imperium in Warhammer 40k, which doesn't bother discriminating against women and black people when it can discriminate against mutants and literal witches instead.

Which is fairly logical, actually; if humanity suddenly had to share space with aliens, we'd probably get over most of our racial conflicts pretty quickly in favour of protesting against the three-eyed Andromedans who reproduce by licking each other's nipples and who vomit into their children's mouths to feed them.

 

[Rangaman]

I think this is a load of bunk. Why would Disney alienate their potential audience? If it's real, I'm okay with it. Trump is an idiot with policies that simply cannot be implemented.

For how much the Left gets mocked for needing "Safe Spaces" and having thin skin, Trump supports seem to get awfully butthurt easily about...well....everything.

It's the pot calling the kettle black, and it always has been. Actually, I've seen far more instances of Trump supporters getting all offended than Left-wingers.

 

[Zontar]

...I'm sorry, is this another one of those cases where a few people do/say something silly, more people mock their silliness...and then all of those people are lumped together to claim that the initial foolishness is more widespread than it actually is?

It's a case of the Chans not liking the fact the movie's writer called the Empire a white supremacist group and changed his profile picture to the Rebel's logo with the pathetic baby dipper safety pin, and so decided to have some fun making a fake hashtag. The fact it got trending and fake news outlets covered it is a victory for them.

The internet never learns.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Yep, the Chans sure showed us. They were only pretending to be idiots so we'd laugh at them.

Brilliant plan, that.

 

[Asita]

Eh, it's a stretch to say that it's about rebelling against white supremacy, but it's not entirely wrong either.

The Empire had a good deal of historical inspiration, including but not limited to Nazi Germany (but this was, however, the most immediately recognizable parallel for many people). Fans latched onto that and much of the now apocryphal Expanded Universe took the idea and ran with it. The Empire was semi-canonized as a human supremacist organization, wherein many of the near-exclusively human officers were openly racist and contemptuous of non-human cultures. Now, the Empire has always been an oppressive regime, so saying that Star Wars has always been about "rebelling against white supremacism" is wrong in several respects, but it is not wrong to say that the Empire has long had obvious supremacist overtones, though they were rarely the direct focus.

The Empire is canonically human-supremacist, not white-supremacist. Similar to the Imperium in Warhammer 40k, which doesn't bother discriminating against women and black people when it can discriminate against mutants and literal witches instead.

Which is fairly logical, actually; if humanity suddenly had to share space with aliens, we'd probably get over most of our racial conflicts pretty quickly in favour of protesting against the three-eyed Andromedans who reproduce by licking each other's nipples and who vomit into their children's mouths to feed them.

I believe I said as much, did I not? That being said, human supremacism in fiction is necessarily analogous to racial supremacism in real life, much like how other fantastical forms of prejudice are ultimately drawn from issues in the real world. So again, not factual but not entirely false either due to allegory making it true "from a certain point of view", much like how X-Men isn't about racial prejudice or homophobia but the prejudice mutants face in the series is certainly evocative of it.

 

[Zontar]

Yep, the Chans sure showed us. They were only pretending to be idiots so we'd laugh at them.

Brilliant plan, that.

It's the chans, just getting any reaction whatsoever is a victory.

When the endgame is getting a response, the only way they don't win is to ignore it.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

You are going to have to dramatically simplify whatever it is you're saying here before I can really respond to it.

It breaks your suspension of disbelief to see contemporary political commentary in fiction? You find political allegories too preachy? You really like Coleridge? Help me out here.

OK then, though it doesn't seem like you need that much help there. Answers in order: 1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) Some of the hits are good, I don't really know all the deep cuts.

I can't really believe it doesn't break someone's suspension of disbelief to see petty contemporary political jabs (commentary is a little too dignified a word for what I'm expecting) in their space fable. It's just that some think it's going to be a fun Team Us thing, but they'll change their mind eventually. It's not going to be super hilarious once the moment is past, just cringy and dated.

These creations should be for the ages, not for settling last week's scores.

Many users pointed out how Star Wars had always been about rebelling against white supremacy

(Sorry to be quoting your quote, but I can't be bothered to get my own.)

Uh, surely not. The Empire was not "White Supremacy", Lando was no more oppressed by it than Han. That was a major part of the beauty of it. It was about rebelling against controlling authoritarians. All could be equally in it together.

If anything, all the massively overblown brouhaha about the "White Supremacists" (who are in reality a small fringe, and Trump's not it) looks a lot like enacting a "Phantom Menace" plot, just in time for the Clone Army of the RightThinking Elite to take over.

Star wars has always contained contemporary criticism. Return of the Jedi was in large part about the vietnam war, what with the invasion of a small jungle moon by an opressive militaristic regime whoose army is defined by homogenity and uniformality fighting a resistance movement. One of the few things i like about the prequels was their criticism of the Bush administration's foreign policy and handling of 9/11

 

[Thaluikhain]

The Empire is canonically human-supremacist, not white-supremacist. Similar to the Imperium in Warhammer 40k, which doesn't bother discriminating against women and black people when it can discriminate against mutants and literal witches instead.

Nominally, yes. How many white Imperial people did you see in the original SW trilogy, and how many PoC? Several dozen and none, IIRC. Wasn't Lando the only PoC that got any lines at all?

Similarly, GW does tend to have a bias towards white male characters (or artwork). You do have more important people as men then women, the SoB exist because the Church was forbidden armed men and the person coming up with that phrase evidently forgot women exist, and Abnett describes Rawne as being a typical Imperial male and thus has issues with female guard...though that's Abnett.

Now, not saying the Imperium is oppressing women and PoC (in particular), just it's not really depicted as not doing that.

 

[StatusNil]

Star wars has always contained contemporary criticism. Return of the Jedi was in large part about the vietnam war, what with the invasion of a small jungle moon by an opressive militaristic regime whoose army is defined by homogenity and uniformality fighting a resistance movement. One of the few things i like about the prequels was their criticism of the Bush administration's foreign policy and handling of 9/11

The thing about the prequels is that the story was conceived before the Bush administration seemingly followed the script. Episode I came out in 1999, Episode II in the summer of 2002 (so it was shot before the previous September). The only one that even could have been directly influenced by those events was Episode III, but the main points of the storyline had obviously been well established by that point. And I don't recall the producers of those movies going on a promotion spree about how they were all about Bush and his gang. (Maybe we have the merciful lack of Social Media at the time to thank for that, it does bring out the opportunistic hack in people like nothing before.) The bottom line is that they told a universally applicable story (and there was a really compelling story in there somewhere, underneath all the rubbish, nonsense and merchandise pitching) without nailing it down to a single interpretation of intent, and people were free to find their own connections to real world events. And we certainly did, but that didn't exhaust the potential to do so in other contexts.

Likewise, with Return of the Jedi there was no "Hey hippies, come see the Vietnam allegory!" going on whatsoever. It might indeed have been part of the inspiration, but really RotJ was a universal story featuring an imperial superpower setting up on a planet because of its strategic value as a staging ground, and a rival power (or, perhaps more accurately, an opposing faction of the same power) attacking their installations there, with the indigenous population getting caught in the conflict. Also, wouldn't it have been a little problematic to portray the Vietnamese people as savage teddy bears?

 

[The Lunatic]

People can not watch movies for whatever reason they like. I can't say I much care.

I think it's unforuntate the movie itself has gotten so politically charged. As I recall, we had somebody involved in the movie (Writer or something?) making a statement that the Empire was a "White Nationalist Group", which... Really doesn't seem fair.

 

[Ogoid]

In all honesty, I don't understand how people can work up the energy to care either way about Disney Star Wars; it's inevitably going the way of The Simpsons, going on forever and somehow making lots of money even past the point when the very mention of its name is enough to induce automatic eye-rolling.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

Star wars has always contained contemporary criticism. Return of the Jedi was in large part about the vietnam war, what with the invasion of a small jungle moon by an opressive militaristic regime whoose army is defined by homogenity and uniformality fighting a resistance movement. One of the few things i like about the prequels was their criticism of the Bush administration's foreign policy and handling of 9/11

The thing about the prequels is that the story was conceived before the Bush administration seemingly followed the script. Episode I came out in 1999, Episode II in the summer of 2002 (so it was shot before the previous September). The only one that even could have been directly influenced by those events was Episode III, but the main points of the storyline had obviously been well established by that point. And I don't recall the producers of those movies going on a promotion spree about how they were all about Bush and his gang. (Maybe we have the merciful lack of Social Media at the time to thank for that, it does bring out the opportunistic hack in people like nothing before.) The bottom line is that they told a universally applicable story (and there was a really compelling story in there somewhere, underneath all the rubbish, nonsense and merchandise pitching) without nailing it down to a single interpretation of intent, and people were free to find their own connections to real world events. And we certainly did, but that didn't exhaust the potential to do so in other contexts.

Likewise, with Return of the Jedi there was no "Hey hippies, come see the Vietnam allegory!" going on whatsoever. It might indeed have been part of the inspiration, but really RotJ was a universal story featuring an imperial superpower setting up on a planet because of its strategic value as a staging ground, and a rival power (or, perhaps more accurately, an opposing faction of the same power) attacking their installations there, with the indigenous population getting caught in the conflict. Also, wouldn't it have been a little problematic to portray the Vietnamese people as savage teddy bears?

Unintentional racism was quite common in the 70s. GRRM's book "and seven times not to kill man" had a similar setup, and was part of the inspiration for endor, whcih was originally supposed to be a wookie planet. Star wars certainly isn't perfect in terms of unintentionally racist depictions. Watto looks like a charicature of the jews from the 30s. Also, Attaack of the clones was before iraq, but after the patriot act

 

[StatusNil]

Also, Attaack of the clones was before iraq, but after the patriot act

The filming took place from June to September 2000, with reshoots in March 2001. So no, not after the Patriot Act of October 2001.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

And I don't recall the producers of those movies going on a promotion spree about how they were all about Bush and his gang. (Maybe we have the merciful lack of Social Media at the time to thank for that, it does bring out the opportunistic hack in people like nothing before.)

Neat. And I don't recall the producers of Rouge One going on a promotion spree at all.. Instead, we've got one guy tweeting that the Empire of the original trilogy being a white supremist organization, which due to casting conditions regarding Britain in the late 70s/early 80s is an easy thing to allude to, and a rumor spread by jagoffs about an added anti-Trump scene based on nothing at all.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Not me. I liked it far better when it was "Hair Metal Album Covers; The game"

Are you single? Because I think it might be true love ... give me back the original Rogue Trader. Drunken Space Marines in ship bars going fisticuffs with aliens. Back before the grimdark. When things were like; "Yeah, 40k is ridiculous, and looks ridiculous, and that's why we love it."

You know ... when the galaxy wasn't black, and then blacker than black.

Back when you could be an interstellar explorer kicking butt to simply steal wealth and technology, return to Terra, and get your tickertape triumph through the streets as you grandstand ontop of your touring hovercar. It was great, and it is ACTUALLY DARKER than the grimdark setting, because there were actual cases of moral ambiguity and the fact that Terra really didn't give a shit. Just keep the coin flowing. And while you can make this argument of the modern Rogue Trader take, it misses the populares-style politics of 2nd Century BCE Rome that old Rogue Trader encapsulated *fantastically*.

Say what you like, what is 'grimdark' pales in comparison to what ancient Romans did to their own and to other groups of people. Oooh, dark and edgy, the Imperium kills aliens and heretics on sight ... oooh ... I'm sorry, real-life Romans did way worse shit. Romans trump the 40k Imperium in terms of savagery. And the Romans were seen as the beacon light of culture and civilization, a pacifying element against the barbarism that did exist in some places.

What old Rogue Trader gave us ... was a situation where things could turn around. That Terra could reverse the tide of events that will inevitably follow like any society that forsakes the lessons of history. That there was a chance to be better than you were ... and ultimatey, you as a PC threw that chance of redemption into a waste paper bin because opportunity has come a-ringin'. You answered the call.

And that is a far more darker setting than any modern 40k format of grimdark. Because you are not merely an indoctrinated retard with a gun ... you were a callous human who sacrifices morality in exchange for money and glory, and the system exists to promote that fall from grace. You actively have a shot of redemption, and you chose to ignore it. So you begin to look like some overmedalled, over-armoured beast ... with ridiculous accoutrements to stand out from all the rest of the egotistical nutcases you joined parties with, or were in competition with ... tromping across the galaxy ... sometime simply to be seen to do as such.

Your name goes down in legend, in truth--solely because you are a wilful thug who chooses to go further than your competitors. Willing to do that which even your enemies would be ashamed to do.

The new Rogue Trader is grimdark done *well* ... though I still prefer old Rogue Trader. Which was entirely tongue-in-cheek, and ridiculous looking soldiers, and the creators were self-aware enough to know that it is ridiculous. And so it becomes almost metal in its imagery.

 

[StatusNil]

Neat. And I don't recall the producers of Rouge One going on a promotion spree at all.. Instead, we've got one guy tweeting that the Empire of the original trilogy being a white supremist organization, which due to casting conditions regarding Britain in the late 70s/early 80s is an easy thing to allude to, and a rumor spread by jagoffs about an added anti-Trump scene based on nothing at all.

I guess we'll find out if it was based on something soon enough. And either way, it sure started a conversation, did it not? Which I'm told is always a good excuse to spread rumors and "news".

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Neat. And I don't recall the producers of Rouge One going on a promotion spree at all.. Instead, we've got one guy tweeting that the Empire of the original trilogy being a white supremist organization, which due to casting conditions regarding Britain in the late 70s/early 80s is an easy thing to allude to, and a rumor spread by jagoffs about an added anti-Trump scene based on nothing at all.

I guess we'll find out if it was based on something soon enough. And either way, it sure started a conversation, did it not? Which I'm told is always a good excuse to spread rumors and "news".

As much as pointing and laughing is a "conversation", sure.

EDIT: And they're not gonna find out soon, because, ya know, boycott.

I did come up with a "The Force Awakens as classic Military Sci-Fi" analysis though, so it's not a total waste of time.