Dutch culture from the viewpoint of an immigrant. (warning: rant, some swearing)

[Neonit]

So, today i reached boiling point. After reading the news today, i thought i need to let some steam off. Sadly, im going to do it here, so you have been warned.
First, i want to warn any dutch people that some things im going to say might be offensive. You have been warned.
Second, this is probably going to turn into lengthy rant. You have been warned.
Third, this post might be full of bias. You have been warned.

So ok, onto the real post. First, let me introduce myself, im a 19 year old, student of ict, here in netherlands. I've been living here for about 6 years. You could say that i spent most of my time growing up here (seeing as around the age of 14-16 my consciousness was being formed).
Im an immigrant from poland. I dont drink a lot, as many people in netherlands would have you believe. I have a clean slate as it comes to criminality. I speak dutch very well. Not perfect, but i can communicate well beyond what is considered adequate.
I was living in poland for quite some time, and ive noticed a lot of misplaced pride in polish people. I believe it was so, because polish nation was once a very big and strong country. Now it has been reduced to second world country. So in short, their pride was wounded. Then i moved to the netherlands, with the vision of open, and tolerant country.
Boy, was i surprised!
Dont get me wrong, i know a lot of GREAT and AWESOME people here. Im talking about the country and the people of it as a whole, from the perspective of an immigrant.
I keep hearing about how immigrants destroy dutch culture. In newspapers, in tv, event direct from the people here. Today i noticed, and im sorry im going to say it but - there is nothing to destroy.

Today in the newspapers i read about dutch people burning down german cars as a "revenge" for football.
Then i read about how dutch people refuse to pay in greek restaurants saying as "we are already paying (EU)"
Then i read about how major newspaper here was making up news about discrimination in poland. This was supposed to be an example as to why this "achterlijke (retarded, backwards)" country shouldn't organize European championship.
When i was walking with my mother during a sunny day, we have noticed a person jogging. My mother wanted to greet him by saying "Hoi" (hi in dutch). She was met with him spitting on the ground and running away.
A couple of weeks ago, there was a party in a little town we live in (about 2000 people live here). At around 3 o'clock i was waked from my sleep because of chanting outside. Ik had to endure about 30 minuts of shouts like "Kut polen (loose translation: **** polish)" Constant beating the door, and - you wont believe this shit, someone threw a living cat at our balcony.
I keep hearing how youth of the immigrants is leading to criminality. All of those young people outside were dutch. Every week, such a party takes place, sometimes is quiet, but most of the time (pretty much always) a local bus stop is getting vandalized.


I live here, because i this is where i grew up. I keep hearing about how immigrants should "integrate". How the hell do you expect them to do so, if you keep pulling shit like this?!

I always was angry at polish people, for their enormous pride. Now i know that dutch people have even bigger a problem with their pride.

Once again, i love a lot of people here. But ffs the shit i have to see everyday does tire me out. And im a white male, i can only imagine how it is for people who are not.
That is also why blood boils in my veins when i keep hearing idiots, shouting about how "those fuc**** immigrants destroy our culture!".

No, they do not. They havent seen any.



ps im sorry, but i really had to let some of the steam off. As to discussion value? Well, you can share your experiences. Mostly, this is to let some people how stupid behavior of large part of community, can alienate immigrants.

 

[Jonluw]

Far right and nationalist movements are gaining momentum in mainland Europe as the financial crisis runs its course.

There's not much you can do about it. Just a sociological effect. In times of economic downturn, the people turns to extreme political ideologies.

What I'm saying is: You shouldn't think of this as a characteristic of Dutch culture. It's a symptom of the times we're living in.

 

[Manji187]

That's one little town, man. Is it by any chance in the province of Zuid-Brabant, Gelderland or Drenthe?

 

[D Moness]

Today in the newspapers i read about dutch people burning down german cars as a "revenge" for football.

Well soccer brings the worst out in it "fan". I use fans loosely since it are just criminals doing it(people who should be jailed and fined).

I mean a few days ago when russia had to play against poland and the russian fans were escorted to the stadion some polish fans thought it was nice to start a fight/riot with russian fans. Last time Russia was pushed out of the world championship half the main capital was burning due to all the fires that were started.
English hooligans just fight with everyone everywhere.

As for the rest the second a country gets into a depression the first people that will be blamed are immigrants. It is just that a part of humanity is looking for scapegoats and not look at themselves(the biggest wars started due to those reasons).

Well if we are lucky with the next election the frikking PVV will fall from the government. As for me (born and raised in the Netherlands),i live in a street with lots of nationalities(polish ,turkish etc) and lifestyles. There has never been a real problem in this street. I do not like soccer but i like seeing all those different country flags hanging in the windows.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Do you by change live in one of those shit neighborhoods where youth gangs terrorize the area, because I honestly can't recognize much of the description you gave. I live in a town with a lot of Polish immigrants and to my knowledge I've never seen anything resembling hostility toward them.

 

[Neonit]

That's one little town, man. Is it by any chance in the province of Zuid-Brabant, Gelderland or Drenthe?

Nope, zeeland.

Far right and nationalist movements are gaining momentum in mainland Europe as the financial crisis runs its course.

There's not much you can do about it. Just a sociological effect. In times of economic downturn, the people turns to extreme political ideologies.

What I'm saying is: You shouldn't think of this as a characteristic of Dutch culture. It's a symptom of the times we're living in.

Yeah, i get it. And i wouldnt have such a problem with it were it not for all these bs about others being bad. But its true, its the same bs over again, it is bad = its the "others" fault, not ours.

As for the rest the second a country gets into a depression the first people that will be blamed are immigrants. It is just that a part of humanity is looking for scapegoats and not look at themselves(the biggest wars started due to those reasons).

Well if we are lucky with the next election the frikking PVV will fall from the government. As for me (born and raised in the Netherlands),i live in a street with lots of nationalities(polish ,turkish etc) and lifestyles. There has never been a real problem in this street. I do not like soccer but i like seeing all those different country flags hanging in the windows.

I very much doubt pvv is going to lose support in coming elections. I hope that the next time no one is going to want to work with them and then people will notice its all the same bs but with a different cover. Not likely but hey, a man can dream.

Do you by change live in one of those shit neighborhoods where youth gangs terrorize the area, because I honestly can't recognize much of the description you gave. I live in a town with a lot of Polish immigrants and to my knowledge I've never seen anything resembling hostility toward them.

No, and thats the surprising thing. I live in a small town, which is normally VERY quiet as in, maybe 3-5 people walking and maybe 3 cars by an hour. But there is this big disco which gathers crowds every couple of weeks. And its less violent gangs and more of drunken idiots.


See, living here has taught me one important thing. You really dont see discrimination of other people. Back when i lived in poland, i saw no discrimination at all. Here i notice it. And im white male, thats the scary part.

 

[Fat Hippo]

I'm gonna agree with Jonluw here, this kind of stuff is happening all over Europe. Where I live, Switzerland, the discussions about foreigners never seem to end, and you can't trust the media reporting it to be neutral anyway, since they'd rather just have a good story. The truth gets muddled, and it gets difficult to see how much of it stems from actual socio-economic problems and how much of it is pure racism.

 

[sextus the crazy]

What's happening in your place is happening just about everywhere in space and time when the economy gets worse. In the states, we've got tons of reactionary shitheads forming their own gun-toting militias because things are bad here.

 

[Beldaros]

I'm gonna agree with Jonluw here, this kind of stuff is happening all over Europe. Where I live, Switzerland, the discussions about foreigners never seem to end, and you can't trust the media reporting it to be neutral anyway, since they'd rather just have a good story. The truth gets muddled, and it gets difficult to see how much of it stems from actual socio-economic problems and how much of it is pure racism.

Same in CZ. An English person is either praised like a god or treated like the Devil, no middle ground.

If you're black.... that's a scary situation.

Asians are also treated with passive aggressiveness.

Like the OP I know a lot of great people here too... sometimes it makes you wonder though.

Honestly, I think England is still the worst culprit for this though.

 

[Wintermoot]

yeah lot,s of people in Holland act like complete retards (maybe that,s one of the reasons I want to get out).
I also don,t get the German VS Holland mentality it,s a bit cute at best but downright dangerous at worst (maybe the whole WWII thing?)
the country has allot of shit heads but then again every country has shit heads.

 

[Neonit]

Don't you think you're being a little over the top?

"No culture to ruin" - well, I'd say the high standard of living is quite something. It's something your own dear Poland doesn't have.

I'm just saying - everything you said about Holland could be said about Poland, except sometimes I get the impression Polish people don't even need immigrants to blame them for their problems. They just blame people of different nations for them, even if they are nowhere to be seen.

I just don't like how you excuse your home countries flaws by calling them misplaced pride, but insult the Netherlands for having the exact same thing, only that when Holland does it it's unacceptable...

That's the vibe I get from your post.

i was pretty sure i mentioned that i hated this misplaced pride. i might have forgotten to mention that. under no circumstances was i "excusing" my country, i dont know where you got that idea.
at any rate - i hated it as much there as i hate it here.
also, i wonder, why do you imply that standards of living in "my dear poland" are bad? i was living in one of the "more modern" cities in poland. the standards of living were quite high. i didnt emigrated because of living standards, in fact, my living standard has decreased.

also, yes, i am "over the top", i knew full well that due to the... emotional impulse, i would be biased. it has been mentioned in the "warnings" section.

 

[Neonit]

also, i wonder, why do you imply that standards of living in "my dear poland" are bad? i was living in one of the "more modern" cities in poland. the standards of living were quite high. i didnt emigrated because of living standards, in fact, my living standard has decreased.

The poverty line is quite a bit lower, theres still people in Poland living without proper heating which is something of a rarity in the Netherlands.

I mean, don't get me wrong, Poland isn't crazy poor like, I dunno, Somalia, but it's not as wealthy as some western European countries unfortunately. And I don't mean that as an insult.

nah i get it. actually i think thats the part of the problem. a lot of people still think that poland is some backwater slum, which is simply not true.
the questions i heard from some people were really astounding. i was asked if we had tables in poland. i was asked if we had cheese and cows. which is why i understand why some people were surprised that poland and ukraine were allowed to hold championships.
fact of the matter is, yes, there are parts that are pretty poor. But most of the immigrants, especially the younger ones (as in, younger than 30 year old) come from cities, that have pretty good living standards.

 

[Smeatza]

CIA top trumps shows

21 - Poland - $ 765,600,000,000
22 - Argentina - $ 709,700,000,000
23 - Netherlands - $ 705,700,000,000

Poland actually has the GDP advantage.

However Poland's population below the poverty line is 17% while The Netherland's is 10%.

Gotta love the CIA factbook. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/.

 

[SpaceBat]

Yeah, this country harbors a surprising amount of racists (as a result of many different factors). I'm afraid you're going to have to grow an even thicker skin and deal with it as I don't see it improving any time soon.

And the Netherlands vs Germany mindset is quite moronic indeed.

 

[Latinidiot]

Oh man, you really drew the shortest end of the fucking stick there. I forgot that this kind of thing has never stopped happening here.

sterkte man.

 

[JochemHippie]

Well you already mentioned you lived in Zeeland.

Which is the religious arse of our country. Otherwise, yeah there some, but it's mostly the few rotten apples in the basket.

Also, racism is a problem.. Everywhere.