EA Exec Says Its Games Are "Too Hard to Learn" For New Players

[Olrod]

I'd be surprised if the executives of EA have ever played a video game in their lives.

Half the time they don't seem to know what the hell they're doing, other than actively trying to screw over their customer base.

 

[maninahat]

It's quite a good point, actually. I don't think they are talking about seasoned gamers who already know the standard conventions and typical control schemes as a second nature. I think they are talking more about people who have never, for instance, played a first person shooter before. For these people, it is a seemingly mammoth task of byzantine coordination to move, look, shoot and think at the same time. I made the mistake of handing my wife the controls to Portal, thinking this would be an easy gateway drug to gaming. Three hours later, she still hadn't worked out how to walk and move the mouse at the same time.

Maybe there should be tutorials aimed not just at the basics for that particular game, but general advice on how to get into any game. I remember the revolution that went on inside my head the day I learned to strafe around a corner, rather than walk into it and turn 90 degrees (as one would intuitively do in real life).

 

[Lilani]

"Our games are actually still too hard to learn," Hilleman said during during an on-stage interview at the DICE Summit in Las Vegas. "The average player probably spends two hours to learn how to play the most basic game."

I wonder how he's defining this. Are they actually learning how the mechanics work, or are they learning in what ways they can apply the mechanics?

For example, the mechanics of Portal are pretty simple. You shoot the gun at certain surfaces, it makes holes, and you can put yourself or other things through the holes. And otherwise you can pick things up and move things around with your hands. Simple stuff.

But the entire game is essentially a learning process. Every level asks you to do something different with that set of mechanics. You're always learning, but learning what you can do with the same set of tools is exactly what Portal is about. And Portal 2 is the same thing, it just takes longer to finish introducing all of its mechanics.

The difference is huge, and key to determining the learning curve of your game. If your player is spending 2 hours trying to figure out what buttons do what then the game is probably poorly designed. But if your player is spending 2 hours learning new and exciting ways to use the tools in front of them, then congratulations, that's exactly what deep and engaging gameplay looks like.

 

[StreamerDarkly]

A sign of the times, unfortunately. You might also ask "are website articles too long?" after finding out that only 50% of the audience reads all the way to the end.

This exec might want to consider one possible outcome of his plan. After shortening the article length to the point 95% are reading to the end, the exodus of customers who expect some meat on the bone makes the website less profitable than it was before.

 

[Gretha Unterberg]

"Our games are actually still too hard to learn," Hilleman said during during an on-stage interview at the DICE Summit in Las Vegas. "The average player probably spends two hours to learn how to play the most basic game."

I wonder how he's defining this. Are they actually learning how the mechanics work, or are they learning in what ways they can apply the mechanics?

For example, the mechanics of Portal are pretty simple. You shoot the gun at certain surfaces, it makes holes, and you can put yourself or other things through the holes. And otherwise you can pick things up and move things around with your hands. Simple stuff.

But the entire game is essentially a learning process. Every level asks you to do something different with that set of mechanics. You're always learning, but learning what you can do with the same set of tools is exactly what Portal is about. And Portal 2 is the same thing, it just takes longer to finish introducing all of its mechanics.

The difference is huge, and key to determining the learning curve of your game. If your player is spending 2 hours trying to figure out what buttons do what then the game is probably poorly designed. But if your player is spending 2 hours learning new and exciting ways to use the tools in front of them, then congratulations, that's exactly what deep and engaging gameplay looks like.

Maybe we are looking at it from the wrong Angle.

Think of any competative game of your liking.
If you make the slightest error there you get punished for it, and probably don't even know what you've done wrong.
In that enviroment I can image people spending 5-6 hours before figuring out the basics.

 

[Lilani]

Maybe we are looking at it from the wrong Angle.

Think of any competative game of your liking.
If you make the slightest error there you get punished for it, and probably don't even know what you've done wrong.
In that enviroment I can image people spending 5-6 hours before figuring out the basics.

Again, only a poorly designed game allows the player to fail again and again without knowing what happened. It isn't a matter of complexity, it's a matter of teaching the player properly. If you listen to the developer's commentary in Portal, they went through painstaking efforts to make sure the learning curve was just right, and to make sure the player was well-equipped for each new task by building upon what they had taught them previously.

For example, before you have control over both portals in Portal, there is a level which requires you to go back through a portal you went through in the opposite direction. While it seems trivial and small when you spell it out, it's a necessary building block to make sure the player understands everything they can do with portals before putting more complex puzzles before them. Also, there was one instance toward the end where you're in a very tall room and you have to shoot a portal way up near the ceiling. During playtesting, they discovered that players often don't look up for solutions to problems. So in order to direct the player's eyes up, they put the skeleton of a ladder on the wall. It was falling apart and impossible to climb, but when the player saw it, they realized there was more up above them they had to get to, and so they looked and found the solution.

I understand with a game like Battlefield or Titanfall, you aren't as in control over what the player does so it's hard to encourage them to do a tutorial without forcing it on them in a very obnoxious way. Though if it was multiplayer games the guy was referring to, you also have to ask the question was that a problem with those games? Neither Titanfall nor Battlefield 4 were total bombs--they got good reviews (in the case of Titanfall great) and they sold very well. I suspect if it is these games he was talking about, this is yet another case of EA investing too much and needing to sell an unreasonable number of copies or amount of DLC to recoup their losses.

 

[Barbas]

I'd argue that's a sign of bad elementary game design, though no doubt they'll try to spin this in a way that insults the intelligence of players. Further dumbing down to follow.

 

[Dragonbums]

See the thing is is that I've read the article on Destructoid and I must admit that the EA executive does has a point. For a lot of non gamers out there who are trying out their first game, a lot of today's modern games have a whole lot of shit packed in control wise that aren't really intuitive and quite frankly needlessly complicated.

Granted a good chunk of those games are EA games, but that doesn't really negate the point. After all it isn't executives making the control scheme of a game.

A game that has a good non complicated control scheme that I've played is TF2. I can leave that game for months, come back, and remember most of what I have to do in a matter of a round or two online.

However it's been months since I last played Skyrim or Mass Effect 2, and gods be damned if I make an attempt at playing it again. There are so many buttons, and menus, and submenus to go through just to do a few things that I honestly feel that I'm better off simply restarting the whole game from scratch than trying to find my way through through the controls half way through the game.


And honestly the whole sentiment of "making things easier" equates to dumbing it down for non gamer ma and pa is annoying as fuck. I play games a lot and even I can admit there are some games that are just really fucking bad in teaching people how to use their controls. Last game I played that was utter shit at it was Starfox Assault. Even worse is that they gave you ZERO TUTORIALS on how to play the fucking game. I quit before I even finished the first stage.

 

[Jesse Billingsley]

What a pompous asshole!

 

[Blitsie]

Ugh, I can't stand this constant need to share everything with everyone and the world.
I want my gaming to be for me. I don't need or want Facebook in all my games.

Also nothing completely kills in-game immersion like having a huge Facebook symbol pop up mid-play so you can tell your friends how you just dragon kicked a dragon. Seriously, if you want me to truly hate a game, you slam a social media feature on it in an easily noticeable spot.

But eh, that's EA I guess, the same guys who shamelessly put an NPC in Dragon Age who psyches you up for a quest only to kick you into their online store afterwards so you can buy said quest. Wouldn't be surprised if they start charging customers one day to activate social media integration in their games.

 

[Dollabillyall]

Sounds like EA just wants to make candy crush but with ultra HD graphics and surround sound.

 

[sneakypenguin]

Agree games are too hard for new players. Even things like dual thumbsticks for movement can literally stop someone from progressing in even the simplest game.

My wife watched me play mass effect 2 for a while seemed interested so I let her go through an intro with a created character it was brutal to watch and even on easy she was struggling with even looking at the enemies much less using powers or switching guns.

Not everyone has a history of gaming to where they know Y is switch left trigger is ADS or block A jumps X reloads or interacts Bumper is ALt attack D pad switches between weapons/utilities Sprint/melee in the thumbsticks etc etc.

What is stupidly easy for us becomes super hard for newbies. Where we might in an intro take cover ADS and headshot some enemies and be sprinting to next section a new person might be struggling to move right doesn't recognize cover and how to use it doesn't know you can ADS and is probably dying because even the slowest AI will eventually get you if your standing in the open and struggling to aim. Its amazing how complex games actually are we have the advantage of growing up with them so it seems basic though.

 

[Zipzip the Penguin]

Oh look. EA said something stupid again. What are the odds.

 

[Ajarat]

Dear EA,
Please take all the time you need for this to sink in, should only take you a few hours to figure it out:
Now if you thought my comment to you, EA, was condescending and insulting then consider this: How do you think WE feel. Now bear in mind that none of us are trying to sell you anything. I want to know how long it takes you to understand what's wrong with a business-model based on insulting your customers...

I promise I will never buy from you, no matter what it is you make. I can do without and still be completely swamped in entertainment. Once everyone else comes to terms with this reality, perhaps companies like you will find yourself in trouble.

Sincerely,
Voting With My Wallet.

 

[Dalisclock]

Agree games are too hard for new players. Even things like dual thumbsticks for movement can literally stop someone from progressing in even the simplest game.

As a collarary, controls can be an issue too.

I started playing games with the Atari 2600(and now I feel like Grandpa telling the story about the onion on my belt(which was the style at the time)), moved onto NES, SNES before jumping to PC until last year(when I got a PS3).

It took me a while to get used to using thumbsticks. I'm so used to Mouse and Keyboard(and occasionally a joystick for flight sims) that trying to play a game like GoW with a PS3 controller was hard. And that's with years of hand eye coordination built in.

I'll occasionally introduce non-gamers to games, but they'll always be adventure games or something that does not require being good with a controller. Because I can only imagine how difficult it might be for them(and somehow I don't think GoW is the best way to get them interested regardless).

 

[Strazdas]

"Our games are actually still too hard to learn," Hilleman said during during an on-stage interview at the DICE Summit in Las Vegas. "The average player probably spends two hours to learn how to play the most basic game."

2 hours. ha. For games i usually play 2 hours does not even get you the basics let alone the indepth game mechanic questions. you study it for days. and thats how we like it.

For EA games though, got to be braindead to spend 2 hours learning to how to play them. Unless they mean understanding the game mechanics rather than controls. in which case 95% of your audience does not care about them to begin with.

Again, while most of us gaming enthusiasts would not be fazed by a two-hour long tutorial, Hilleman explains that "asking for two hours of somebody's time--most of our customers, between their normal family lives...to find two contiguous hours to concentrate on learning how to play a video game is a big ask."

Yeah, if you cant spend 2 hours for a game perhaps you shouldnt be gaming. or maybe you should be using mobile games designed to game in short bursts. If i dont have more than an hour i wont even bother turning the game on.

Longer than that. Super Mario Bros. World 1 says hi.

Lack of tutorial is not equivalent of good tutorial and is most certainly not applicable to most genres.

But if you are expected to jump in the deep end right from the start, you may look at it and end up going "This is too hard, I give up" And go do something else instead...

And good ridance. If you are so unwilling to invest effort and actually, gasp, use your brain when trying to start a new hobby you should probably pick one of those that dont require thinking.

I'm so fed up with the idea that "progression and levels and XP" make an RPG. They don't. Role-playing makes an RPG. And please don't tell me we're role-playing cops and robbers in Battlefield: Hardline. There's more role-playing in your average dating sim.

Technically, EVERY game is role playing, with exception of perhas some VR games.

Nor are progression and XP something new or newly popular.

P.S. Its quite amazing how so many people defend such utter stupidity. Here are two flaws in your arguments though:

1. The CEO is talking about average player, not a new player. so you can stop spamming that "but muh new players" bullshit because thats not even the topic.

2. If a new player is unwilling to spend any effort in learning how to control the game - good ridance.

Here is one of the example arguments:

Agree games are too hard for new players. Even things like dual thumbsticks for movement can literally stop someone from progressing in even the simplest game.

My wife watched me play mass effect 2 for a while seemed interested so I let her go through an intro with a created character it was brutal to watch and even on easy she was struggling with even looking at the enemies much less using powers or switching guns.

Not everyone has a history of gaming to where they know Y is switch left trigger is ADS or block A jumps X reloads or interacts Bumper is ALt attack D pad switches between weapons/utilities Sprint/melee in the thumbsticks etc etc.

What is stupidly easy for us becomes super hard for newbies. Where we might in an intro take cover ADS and headshot some enemies and be sprinting to next section a new person might be struggling to move right doesn't recognize cover and how to use it doesn't know you can ADS and is probably dying because even the slowest AI will eventually get you if your standing in the open and struggling to aim. Its amazing how complex games actually are we have the advantage of growing up with them so it seems basic though.

EA not talking about new players. if dual thumbsticks for movement stops somone from playing a game id suggest looking for learning dissability, because either he did not want to play the game to begin with or is not fully mentally developed.

ME games have quite shitty control scheme and to be fair controls are much less responsive in third person games due to the way camera is in the "Wrong" position in relation to what your trying to accomplish. bad game to start teaching somone in games. first person mode is best for learning to look around because then the location you are tring to look at and the camera are aligned. That being said, struggling is not a bad thing. thats how we learn.

As far as your tirade about buttons, all of those could be learnt by pressing the buttons or, gasp, looking at control menu. you know, actually trying to learn instead of sitting and wiating for game to somehow beam the knowledge into your brain.

or, you know, if the game was properly designed a person could learn and experiment enough to feel confident to meet the tutorial AI. not to mention that said person needs to do it ONCE in thier lifetime as controls of most games are very similar. once again, put some effort into a new hobby, apperently thats too hard for humans.

 

[CrystalShadow]

But if you are expected to jump in the deep end right from the start, you may look at it and end up going "This is too hard, I give up" And go do something else instead...

And good ridance. If you are so unwilling to invest effort and actually, gasp, use your brain when trying to start a new hobby you should probably pick one of those that dont require thinking.

That's an incredibly shallow and dumb remark that shows little thought or regard for anyone but yourself.

But hey, why don't you go drive a 250 metre long road train that weighs 40 tons when you have never driven a vehicle before ever in your life.

Or maybe you'd like to jump straight into doing a life or death neurosurgical procedure on someone without so much as a second's training or prior knowledge...

You might argue it's entertainment, but so what? It's a skill, like any other. You have to be colossally blind to think it's a viable thing to just arbitrarily give people something difficult to understand and control and expect them to just know what it all means, or even how to go about finding out.

I don't take these things for granted, but apparently you think it's so trivial and obvious that anyone who doesn't instantly understand should not even be given the opportunity to understand your precious, convoluted hobby.

Just because I've been gaming for 25 years and know all the common ideas, and how to figure out what a game may do, or how similar basic aspects of most of them are, doesn't mean it's fair for me to assume everyone else does too.

Then again you've probably never witnessed the amazing levels of confusion that a person can encounter just using a mouse the first time...
Understanding what it does, and how you use it is not at all intuitive.

But you don't care, right? ME ME ME! and everyone else doesn't matter...

-_-

 

[Strazdas]

But if you are expected to jump in the deep end right from the start, you may look at it and end up going "This is too hard, I give up" And go do something else instead...

And good ridance. If you are so unwilling to invest effort and actually, gasp, use your brain when trying to start a new hobby you should probably pick one of those that dont require thinking.

That's an incredibly shallow and dumb remark that shows little thought or regard for anyone but yourself.

But hey, why don't you go drive a 250 metre long road train that weighs 40 tons when you have never driven a vehicle before ever in your life.

Or maybe you'd like to jump straight into doing a life or death neurosurgical procedure on someone without so much as a second's training or prior knowledge...

You might argue it's entertainment, but so what? It's a skill, like any other. You have to be colossally blind to think it's a viable thing to just arbitrarily give people something difficult to understand and control and expect them to just know what it all means, or even how to go about finding out.

I don't take these things for granted, but apparently you think it's so trivial and obvious that anyone who doesn't instantly understand should not even be given the opportunity to understand your precious, convoluted hobby.

Just because I've been gaming for 25 years and know all the common ideas, and how to figure out what a game may do, or how similar basic aspects of most of them are, doesn't mean it's fair for me to assume everyone else does too.

Then again you've probably never witnessed the amazing levels of confusion that a person can encounter just using a mouse the first time...
Understanding what it does, and how you use it is not at all intuitive.

But you don't care, right? ME ME ME! and everyone else doesn't matter...

-_-

If i wanted to get into a hobby of driving trains i would put effort into actually learning what i can about driving them before sitting in front of the wheel. and i would not be allowed anywhere close to a surgery room before i study it for YEARS, yet taking 30 minutes of your brain activity to learn how to control your character is SUCH HARD WORK!

No, im not expecting them to automatically know what it all means. im expecting them to put effort into learning instead of just going "nope, i give up". it seems that you severely misinterpreted what i said.

You are correct though that i have not witnessed the amazing levels of confusion. everyone i saw use a mouse for the first time did alright. not great by any means, but good enough to be able to do what they wanted. I know the old addage of "computer on, brain off" is true for many users, but that does not make it a good thing.

 

[mad825]

"The average player probably spends two hours to learn how to play the most basic game."

Probably......probably,probably,probably,probably.........probably.....Not.

It's been quite sometime since I've heard so much crap in a short sentence. He pull that figure out of his hairy arse.

 

[CaitSeith]

So, if EA was to follow along the lines of Hilleman and de Plater's comments, every game coming out of the company should have a tutorial no longer than a few minutes, be packed full of RPG elements, and reward you for sharing every aspect of your progress on as many social media outlets as possible.

How does that sound to you guys?

It sounds like I would be staying away from EA games for a while.