EDUMACATE ME: What is the point/whats different about of Gay Video Game cons?

[Knight Captain Kerr]

I'm part of the LGBT community but I've always been kind of iffy on joining LGBT groups and it isn't something I've done yet. For people who want to join those kinds of things great more power to you, but I don't know if I should join or not. I really don't want to be defined by solely by my sexual orientation or gender indentity. LGBT groups are really important as a political lobby and can be a great help to people in need no doubt there. I just don't know if I want to go to a social event because of my sexual orientation or gender identity. So I don't know if I should join an LGBT group or not.

 

[Ubiquitous Duck]

How on earth is that 'don't ask don't tell'?

How do you observe someone you don't know and come to the conclusion that they are homosexual?

Right. You are saying: If you don't tell anyone about your homosexuality, or express yourself in a pro-LGBT manner, or dress transgendered, or start a discussion about relevant LGBT issues and concerns within the medium and in the industry, or acknowledge a huge part of your life and personality in any way, people will assume you are straight and therefore you won't face any issues.

You don't find that problematic, at all?

And, to your second point, that's not freedom. That's protection. In the end, it needs to cause integration. It highlights the problem, that apparently we need separate gatherings in order for people to feel safe. Surely it should be the middle step and the final step is full integration?

Rather, it welcomes a large number of people into the medium by extending outwards from the 'default' demographic.

To your third point, again I'd say that I'd hope that it is used as a step towards integration, not that the aim is to always hold separate conventions.

Your wish has been granted, for t'was already so!

I make no assumptions of someone's sexuality based on their appearance. That's it. All there is to it.

I'm not suggesting that talking about it was disadvantageous. I was just suggesting that the idea confused me how people could attend a gaming convention and would be making assumptions about peoples sexuality around them. As I said further, surely there are very limited clues as to someones sexuality, merely by observing them at a gaming convention. I was struggling to understand why it would be something that someone attending a convention would do and how they would come to any conclusions about people - and subsequently treat those people differently. It just seemed like a weird assertion to me that there is a problem where people feel uncomfortable attending gaming conventions, on the basis of their sexuality. I'd not heard of this before and am looking for information. I'm on a fact find.

I've had plenty of people say that they thought I was gay in my life, purely based on the fact that I am flamboyant in my mannerisms when I talk to people. Is that what we are suggesting? That at a gaming convention, I may be chastised for this by certain attendees?

As I said, I have no experiences with conventions, so it's all speculative.

As clarified by another poster though, I have learned more about these conventions already. Apparently they are already all-inclusive, but just have an emphasis towards highlighting LGBT presence in gaming. Which sounds a lot more productive than my first impression, of segregation based on sexuality.

Seems a lot more progressive than my original conclusion, on prima facie.

 

[Stu35]

I'd like to think that a Gay Gamer/Comic/Whatever con would see participants with overall better standards of personal hygiene than I see at 'normal' conventions.

All joking aside though, people can gather for whatever reason and in whatever demographic they want - If gay people want to gather for a gamer con of their own then what's the harm? Personally I don't think gay people have any reason to be discouraged from normal Cons as it is, but then I'm not a Gay person so it's not for me to say how they feel about anything.

The rest, I would think, is to do with discussions/etc. over specific Gay subjects within games - a forum unlikely to be given at a normal convention.

 

[chikusho]

As clarified by another poster though, I have learned more about these conventions already. Apparently they are already all-inclusive, but just have an emphasis towards highlighting LGBT presence in gaming. Which sounds a lot more productive than my first impression, of segregation based on sexuality.

Seems a lot more progressive than my original conclusion, on prima facie.

Yeah, it would be kind of silly to only allow people of a certain sexuality to attend.
I mean, how would they prove that you weren't? Background check? Brain scan? Sexual performance test?

It's more about creating a welcoming, including atmosphere where people of a certain minority are free to be themselves among like-minded individuals. All the while discussing and highlighting things that are relevant to their common interests.

 

[LaoJim]

To that end, anyone care to drop some science on me about how the (Heteronormative?) con and the Gaymer con is actually any different? The primary focus is on games, is it not?

This topic seems to come up quite regularly, and every time it does I find myself puzzled that people really don't seem to get it. I'm going to be speaking as a heterosexual man, and if I'm way off base with this, then please someone tell me I'm wrong, especially as I'm going to be wading into some not-quite PC territory. In short the PC version of what I'm going to say has already been said very well by Vault101.

Cause they just wanna hang out with other gay people...mabye even meet some, it's nice to have a place where you are the default

People go to conferences for lots of different reasons. Some of them might be, as others have mentioned that:

1) Many attendees are genuinely interesting in talking about and improving LGBT representation in games.
2) They may genuinely feel intimidated at other cons.

But let me reminisce about a time long ago, before I was a happily married man. Does this conversation sound familiar to anyone...

My friend: Hey, want to come ballroom dancing tonight?
Me: No, why would I want to do that?
My friend: Cos there will lots of women there. Seriously, last week they didn't all have partners, and some girls ended up dancing with each other.
Me: I am so there.

Basically when I was a student and in the years immediately afterwards, a lot of my social life involved trying to be in places where there were lots of single women and looking cool while I was there. I didn't go quite as far as one friend who joined a knitting society expressly for this reason (and in fairness to him it actually worked), but at the end of the day my mates and I ended up doing a lot of stupid stuff that we really didn't really want to do very much, especially after I realized that I simply wasn't attractive enough to ever pull in clubs or bars. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I came even somewhat close to achieving this goal, but it didn't stop me trying. Obviously we also did plenty of stuff that we wanted to do and was actually fun but there wasn't likely to be many women, including going to game conferences. Gaming being what it is, it would have been naive of us to think that they would be great places to meet women, but obviously we would have been overjoyed if we ever found one that was, both generally, because we wanted to meet women, but also because any women we met would likely be gamers and sharing a hobby is great for a relationship.

Now I'm pretty shy and I've always found it hard to approach women. You first have to get up the nerve to talk to them, and then you need to find out if they are single and try to guess if they are in anyway attracted to you. Should you get up the courage to ask them out, it can be pretty devastating to be rejected. Gay people have it worse, it seems to me, since, when they are in heterosexual spaces, because as well as all that, they also have to work out if the person they are interested in is gay as well (which statistically they are unlikely to be). If they do make a move, then not only might they be rejected, but if that person is anti-gay things can potentially get unpleasant. Not surprisingly then gay people like to have 'gay spaces' where nearly everyone is gay and those who aren't are at least aware of where they are and are unlikely to offended if they are hit on.

There's probably another level to this of course, one which heterosexual people don't ever really experience, in that gay couples might also like to go to these spaces, so they can hold hands and generally be open about their relationship when talking to other people and not having to worry about negative reactions. Thus going to a gay conference might be more enjoyable for them than a mainstream one. Generally its easier to have fun in an environment with likeminded people that with people you might be less comfortable around.

So all in all, I can completely understand why gay people might want to go to a gay games conference, even if the mainstream conferences were not homophobic (I don't claim to know either way) and why isn't really a bad form of segregation, I tend to think its a natural social phenomenon. Even if conferences are or become welcoming and inclusive places, I think it is still natural for gay people to still want their own social spaces (which is not to say that they couldn't go to both).

 

[clippen05]

snip

I'm not gonna lie and try to say I speak for what gays experience at these cons. As I said, I was speculating, and I was wrong. I've never read anything talking about these con injustices that people may face, (And I frequent a lot of gaming sites) so I guess I assumed it was uncommon. My question is, how is it so common? In normal situations, I cannot tell the difference between a straight and gay person. How are people at cons knowing who is gay? The only situation I can think of is them going up to people and saying, "I AM A MAN AND I LIKE MEN!!!!" (Or the equivalent for lesbians, bis, etc.) What does sexuality EVER have to do with a gaming convention? Yes, games have sexuality in them, but that shouldn't require anyone to reveal their own sexuality! I don't see how the topic should come up, therefor, I don't understand how this issue got so big.?

I can definitely agree that I was pretty hopeful in my assessment of the 'public's' tolerance for LGBT in my speculation, though.

 

[Phasmal]

Cause they just wanna hang out with other gay people...mabye even meet some, it's nice to have a place where you are the default

Same reason "geeks" like to have a place to talk about all their geek related stuff

Yeah, this.

A better question is - why do people who are used to being the default need to get shitty when there is an environment in which they are NOT?

Seriously, straight people aren't excluded at all, but I've seen so many hissy fits about this.

 

[Eamar]

Cause they just wanna hang out with other gay people...mabye even meet some, it's nice to have a place where you are the default

Same reason "geeks" like to have a place to talk about all their geek related stuff

This, exactly. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

I like to attend LGBT events at my university from time to time, not necessarily because I feel massively discriminated against elsewhere, but because it's just... well... nice to be in an environment where you're "normal" for once. Even as someone who's not immediately visually identifiable as LGBT, the feeling exists.

It's the same feeling I get when I go to a heavy metal fetival or a geeky event. It's refreshing.

So if people want to combine a couple of elements to get a double dose of that feeling by holding a con for gay gamers, or I don't know, putting on an all-black stage show or a women's yoga class, I don't see the problem. It's not like gay gamers aren't also going to be going to regular cons, so the "segregation" argument falls flat.

 

[Adamantium93]

I think the problem here is that you assume that just because something isn't nominally focused on sexuality, than sexuality will not be touched upon. But that's simply not true.

The video game culture is one of the most racist, sexist, and homophobic mainstream cultures in the US right now. The sad truth is that being anything besides a white, straight, and relatively young man at one of these conventions leaves you vulnerable to harassment.

And what if people want to discuss the portrayal and representation of homosexuality in video games? At a normal con, the best they can get is a shouting match with people who say "stop acting entitled because you think you're special". More likely, they'll just be told to shut up or they will be openly harassed.

Also, when you spend your life as the Other to the WSYM discussed earlier, you want to have a place where you can feel like you're the norm rather than the exception.

Just my two cents as a WSYM myself.

 

[Robert Marrs]

You know I have been to many cons. Never once experienced any sort of wide-spread homophobia (or insert other phobia). Every has always been extremely accepting and tolerant. That was always the appeal of going to them. Come as you are and be around people who won't judge you for it? Did I miss something because it seems like this whole "gamers hate gays" thing is being blown out of proportion. There will always be bad apples that is just life but that vast majority seems like they are being painted with the wrong brush. That said I don't see a problem with conventions geared towards gay gamers. It always does bring me back to the double standard issue of it would be ok for this convention to exist but not a convention for straight people etc. etc. but that is another discussion I suppose.

 

[Piorn]

What does sexuality have to do with gaming?

And don't give me that "homosexuals are being discriminated and need to make their own con" garbage.
Do we just deport everyone who doesn't fit in our hate-fuelled community? That's a great community then. Good job guys.
While we're at it, why don't we solve racism too, by sending all black people to australia?!
A nice little narrow-minded utopia just for "us", doesn't that sound lovely?

Seriously, it's sad this is even an issue.

 

[Comocat]

What does sexuality have to do with gaming?

And don't give me that "homosexuals are being discriminated and need to make their own con" garbage.
Do we just deport everyone who doesn't fit in our hate-fuelled community? That's a great community then. Good job guys.
While we're at it, why don't we solve racism too, by sending all black people to australia?!
A nice little narrow-minded utopia just for "us", doesn't that sound lovely?

Seriously, it's sad this is even an issue.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic, but... Conventions are a way of like minded people to get together and share their interests. For example here in the US we have the national ACS meeting (chemical society), we have regional meetings, we have subchapter meetings. That's not to say a sub-meetings are nice to interact with people of similar interests while national meetings are interesting because they are broad in scope. I imagine conventions with a LGBT focus are similar in nature. I doubt those conventions are gays only, but rather have a focus on LGBT issues in the context of gaming. I would never attend a conference solely dedicated to nuclear chemistry, but I would certainly see it at a national conference.

 

[Robert Marrs]

I'm part of the LGBT community but I've always been kind of iffy on joining LGBT groups and it isn't something I've done yet. For people who want to join those kinds of things great more power to you, but I don't know if I should join or not. I really don't want to be defined by solely by my sexual orientation or gender indentity. LGBT groups are really important as a political lobby and can be a great help to people in need no doubt there. I just don't know if I want to go to a social event because of my sexual orientation or gender identity. So I don't know if I should join an LGBT group or not.

I think its easy to relate to this. Just like I wouldn't join any sort of atheist groups. I am an atheist but it does not define me. I don't feel the need to congregate with other atheists or go to atheist focused groups because its not a part of my identity, just as being straight is not part of my identity. I love going to gaming conventions, anime conventions and so on but if any of those conventions came with the label "its for these kind of people" it would feel weird even if I belonged to that demographic. Not to mention a lot of times when you go to places that focus on a specific demographic its pretty much impossible to avoid over enthusiastic political warriors who are just there to push an agenda and not to enjoy or discuss whatever the convention is actually supposed to be about. So yea more power to the convention and the people who want to attend but even if I wasn't straight I don't think it would be for me.

 

[Piorn]

What does sexuality have to do with gaming?

And don't give me that "homosexuals are being discriminated and need to make their own con" garbage.
Do we just deport everyone who doesn't fit in our hate-fuelled community? That's a great community then. Good job guys.
While we're at it, why don't we solve racism too, by sending all black people to australia?!
A nice little narrow-minded utopia just for "us", doesn't that sound lovely?

Seriously, it's sad this is even an issue.

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic, but... Conventions are a way of like minded people to get together and share their interests. For example here in the US we have the national ACS meeting (chemical society), we have regional meetings, we have subchapter meetings. That's not to say a sub-meetings are nice to interact with people of similar interests while national meetings are interesting because they are broad in scope. I imagine conventions with a LGBT focus are similar in nature. I doubt those conventions are gays only, but rather have a focus on LGBT issues in the context of gaming. I would never attend a conference solely dedicated to nuclear chemistry, but I would certainly see it at a national conference.

I thought I had made my immense sarcasm clear enough, oh well.
And really, I'm fine with the idea of a convention based on sexuality and videogames, but making it about homosexuality is like making an ice cream convention for people who like strawberry-flavoured ice cream. What reason would I have to go there? I'm sure they're all nice people that respect other opinions, but it's just such a specific niche, and I'd most likely be the interloper.

Maybe instead of making a convention FOR specific people, we should make cons ABOUT specific things. And if it really needs to be about sexuality, make one half about naked women and the other half about naked men, and let everyone visit the part they like most. Or both!
It's just that arbitrary distinction between tastes that looks childish.

 

[Vault101]

What does sexuality have to do with gaming?

And don't give me that "homosexuals are being discriminated and need to make their own con" garbage.
Do we just deport everyone who doesn't fit in our hate-fuelled community? That's a great community then. Good job guys.
While we're at it, why don't we solve racism too, by sending all black people to australia?!
A nice little narrow-minded utopia just for "us", doesn't that sound lovely?

Seriously, it's sad this is even an issue.

you know if it upsets you that much I'm sure you'd be quite welcome to attend one, they don't check your gay license at the door

Why ask when you can proseltyse to us about what we think, feel, need and experience?

you are correct!

how actual gay people feel is of the least importance here.....

 

[Bluestorm83]

Frankly, I think that it's kinda BS. Game Conventions are there for GAMERS. Not Heterosexuals. Not Homosexuals. If you go to a VIDEO GAME CONVENTION, and your goal is to broadcast your sexuality, or your job, or your religion, or your politics... then you're doing it wrong. I don't care if you're gay, I don't care if you're not. If we can both wonder just why the hell COD is the same game for a new 60 dollars every year, then we have all the common ground we need to share a conversation about Video Games.

That said, if you want to use Videogames as a pretense to meet other gays for gay reasons, knock yourselves out. Just don't pretend it's because the big bad non-sexuality-specific mainstream game convention wasn't a safe place for you. I mean, if I needed a place full of people who agreed 100% with everything I believe/do/am... I'd never be able to walk into any room with even one other person in it.

 

[Vault101]

Well Zachary Amaranth cleared things up pretty well, but I think its also worth noting that a decent amount of heterosexual, cisgender women attend the gaymercons. Why? Not being hit on or groped every two minutes, thats why. If you have the sexual maturity to not be disgusted with gay people because they're "icky" you're also likely to have the sexual maturity to know when its inappropriate to flirt with somebody and when its inappropriate to touch somebody.

not hit on by guys anyway XD....this is also a thing with gay bars, I'm sure some both gay guys and lesbians take issue with it but thats a whole other thing...

That said, if you want to use Videogames as a pretense to meet other gays for gay reasons, knock yourselves out. Just don't pretend it's because the big bad non-sexuality-specific mainstream game convention wasn't a safe place for you. I mean, if I needed a place full of people who agreed 100% with everything I believe/do/am... I'd never be able to walk into any room with even one other person in it.

well of coarse you'd feel right at home...I'm assuming your the default

its not ONLY about "safe place" but sometimes gay people wanna hang out with other gay people and gaming conventions could be fun! its like gay days and disneyland...no theres nothing inherently gay about disneyland but its a cool setting for gays to get toether and just have some fun, who are you to tell them its dumb? because youre not invited? no one is preventing you from going to one

 

[Ubiquitous Duck]

How do you go about finding out someone is gay when they are attending a gaming convention?

Quite easy actually. One small sign of affection from a gay couple can show it. Holding hands, a kiss, other small gestures.

If I can see those small things when I'm drunk as Yahtzee during his Lets Plays then other people can this do when they are sober. Our sexuality is actually quite a big part of our daily life, even if some might not understand it.

As I said further in that post, unless they are attending with their partner. All of your examples are obvious because they involve interacting with a partner.

What if you attend by yourself?