Elder scroll online advice...to buy or not to buy

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Cette

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Should have put this in an earlier post as it's the actually relevant piece of information for the OP. I got my money's worth out of it at 60$ but I don't know that I'll be reupping for another month. And for the average person who it's less their niche I'd say paying more than say 30$ would be inadvisable. It'll drop or go on sale here in a few months I'm sure.

Now waiting for it to go free to play on the other hand. I've yet to see a game go that direction where it didn't massively negatively effect the the gameplay due to the thigns they have lock off to get people to pay for them. That's a punishment you shouldn't wish on a game.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Cette said:
Now waiting for it to go free to play on the other hand. I've yet to see a game go that direction where it didn't massively negatively effect the the gameplay due to the thigns they have lock off to get people to pay for them.
Depends on the model assumed. Not all FTP models are the same. Some are very invasive/pay-wally. Others are quite generous.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Ishal said:
Can you elaborate on this?
Sure.

Game is staring down three major issues for launch, along with a BATTERY of lesser ones. I'll only expand on those if you want to ask specific questions as it would take all day.

I'll list them in order of ascending severity.

3. Bugs bugs bugs bugs bugs shit UI bugs. Carbine has been making this game for ALMOST A DECADE and sometimes it feels like it was hastily thrown together in just under a year. They're working hard to polish it, but they're a month from launch and it's still buggy as fuck, and the UI they've cobbled together is a godawful Frankenstein mess. It's half finished, anti-intuitive, lacks feedback sounds, etc, etc, etc. They clearly hoped mods would do 90% of the heavy lifting.

2. The questing is really, really bad. This is a return to the most bog-standard MMO questing imaginable. I don't think there would be too many complaints if they just failed to copy SWTOR or TSW or TESO's voice acting heavy, scripted quests...those are expensive and tend to come at cost elsewhere. But this was a game that marketed heavily on humor and personality, sort of an MMO Borderlands. Quest text is 140 characters or less, delivered in a tiny font in a tiny window. Go do the thing because I said to do the thing. What's the thing? It's kill 20 of this, 50 of that, 100 of both! It's click on those 12 things. It's go talk to this guy and then come back and talk to me. Imagine the most boring, mundane, satire-worthy MMO dross imaginable, and now imagine it even more boring, and you have Wildstar questing. It's almost shocking how bad it is. The dungeon and raid content is strong, but most of your first 100+ hours in game will be spent questing. And it's *awful*.

1. The Limited Action Set/AMPs/Tiers. Like GW2 and a lot of other modern MMOs, Wildstar is launching with "action combat" and a small action set. This is fine in theory...even a tiny action set can be exciting if you've got varied and exciting abilities. Wildstar does not. They look and sound great, but in practice they all start to run together. 90% of all combat devolves into "put the mobs inside the cone". Combat lacks a sense of impact as everything is AoE spam. Even CC is just used as a damage multiplier. AMPS (talent trees) are dull as dirt, providing copy/paste stat upgrades through rigidly defined steps. Tiering abilities is basically just taking an ability and making it do what it already did, only slightly better. You'd think they'd have split abilities down two paths, or allowed you to mutate abilities into new things, to put your stamp on it. Nope. 2% more damage. 0.13% longer stun. Ooooh. The consequence of all this is that roles inside a class and even classes themselves all start to blend together. Fighting on one character feels very much like fighting on another. Put those mobs in the cone. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Don't forget to circle strafe the telegraphs. In a game that is 90% combat from beginning to end, you need to NAIL the combat, and in a game with only 6 classes you need EXTREME variation. Wildstar achieves neither. This is the most damning of all its issues, as it's going to take months if not years of patching and iteration to fix, assuming the developers EVER fix it. And Wildstar does not have the luxury of a powerhouse IP to drive month one sales.
 

Generalsexbad

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It doesn't make any sense to buy it now when it isn't free to play. When MMOs first launch they are plagued with bugs, and I've been hearing Elder Scrolls is by far no exception, so the people who bought the game on launch are not only going to be paying more than people who waited, they also are getting the worse experience. So just wait.
 

chaser5000

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Wait, not just to fix the bugs and balance things out (becoming a werewolf has no real benefits outside of roleplaying) but for more content. Player housing, the Thieves Guild, and the Dark Brotherhood are suppose to be coming out eventually.
 

Ishal

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BloatedGuppy said:
The dungeon and raid content is strong, but most of your first 100+ hours in game will be spent questing. And it's *awful*.
This. This explains the info I've been hearing about it. Of my gaming friends, the ones who play MMO's would be called "hardcore raiders." The dungeon content is all they're after, so it's all they talk about. I (assume) they'd likely tolerate the boring questing as some might just take a day or two off from work and speed grind to max for raids. This is the one thing that prompted me to even ask you to elaborate, actually. The main thing I enjoy in MMO's is solid PvP, usually of the realm v realm variety. The only thing I would enjoy more than that are the dungeons. But raids are really only fun when with friends or in a guild. All of us have lives and can't commit to get the full experience, no matter what they claim. If everything else is garbage, I think I'll give it a pass.

This is the most damning of all its issues, as it's going to take months if not years of patching and iteration to fix, assuming the developers EVER fix it. And Wildstar does not have the luxury of a powerhouse IP to drive month one sales.
I get the feeling that a lot of people will go in in droves, then leave. It's the locust effect of the MMO crowd. I don't really blame them though. So many of these games promise big, in one fashion or another, but fail to deliver... in one fashion or another. Why is Carbine having so much trouble? I know they're a small studio of ex Blizzard and Arenanet employees, so it's not experience. Is it budget?
 

BloatedGuppy

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Ishal said:
I get the feeling that a lot of people will go in in droves, then leave. It's the locust effect of the MMO crowd. I don't really blame them though. So many of these games promise big, in one fashion or another, but fail to deliver... in one fashion or another. Why is Carbine having so much trouble? I know they're a small studio of ex Blizzard and Arenanet employees, so it's not experience. Is it budget?
Honestly, I think it's just feature creep. They've taken the "kitchen sink" approach to MMO design and tried to be all things to all people, with the result that a lot of it is half-finished or poorly thought out. They were re-designing major systems up to a few months ago, which was indicative of the lack of a coherent vision. And they seemed pretty taken aback by the eventual release window they got handed to them. "When it's ready" became "Uh, I guess it's ready now!".
 

Isra

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I invested about 30 or 40 hours over the final beta weekends and I found it to be boring and very similar to MMOs I've played previously (it should be noted that I find almost all MMO gameplay to be boring, almost as a rule, so I'm biased here). It has all the TES canon, it looks like TES, but due to the innate restrictions of having to play with thousands of other people, it doesn't play like TES.

I would say if you're an MMO fan just looking for a modern MMO, you should try it, it's a fairly solid game, if lacking in innovation. If you're looking for a fantasy MMO specifically, you should also try FFXIV.

If you're an Elder Scrolls fan looking to play another Elder Scrolls, this might not be the game for you, depending on what you want out of a TES game. You have a lot of room to play in ESO, but make no mistake - it is not a sandbox. Don't buy if you're expecting Skyrim Online.
 

Ishal

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BloatedGuppy said:
Honestly, I think it's just feature creep. They've taken the "kitchen sink" approach to MMO design and tried to be all things to all people, with the result that a lot of it is half-finished or poorly thought out. They were re-designing major systems up to a few months ago, which was indicative of the lack of a coherent vision. And they seemed pretty taken aback by the eventual release window they got handed to them. "When it's ready" became "Uh, I guess it's ready now!".
That just shows how out of the loop I've been, if that's the case. Like I said before, I heard it wasn't trying to be anything other than an experience that would cater to hardcore EQ and (up to) Burning Crusade WoW players. Granted, the only other things I've been hearing have been from people I know in the MLP community. Many of which happen to be furries, thus the anthropomorphic character designs appeal to them. Interesting points about the Borderlands comparison, though. That charm is kinda important, and if it doesn't have it, well... why even bother? Just my opinion.

Only other MMO experience I've been kinda following has been EQ next. Is that looking to deliver?
 

BloatedGuppy

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Ishal said:
That just shows how out of the loop I've been, if that's the case. Like I said before, I heard it wasn't trying to be anything other than an experience that would cater to hardcore EQ and (up to) Burning Crusade WoW players.
It's not remotely like EQ. It will appeal to hardcore raiders.

Ishal said:
Only other MMO experience I've been kinda following has been EQ next. Is that looking to deliver?
Waaaaay too early to say. All we have to look at is Landmark, and even that's in Alpha.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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The honest answer comes down to what you want out of the game. For an MMO, ESO isn't a game that makes you want to play with others. The vast majority of content is solable and, as far as I've found, actually preferable alone. It is only in content explicitly designed for a group that playing with others adds to the experience. If you like the Elder Scrolls you will likely find things to enjoy about ESO but that will largely be in spite of the fact it's an MMO rather than because of it.

If you're an MMO junkie looking for the next big fix then I'd say just keep right on moving because, at least right now, ESO isn't the game your looking for.
 

synobal

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krazykidd said:
Edit:
Here is angry joe's review of the game. If you still want to buy the game after watching this then go for it.

I really think Angry Joe's review is fair given the state of the game to date. Maybe it changes but honestly I doubt it. The whole thing feels very rushed.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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BloatedGuppy said:
It's not boxed in at all...it has some of the largest/most open zones in MMOs. Content quality is a completely subjective assessment so I can't argue that with you one way or another.
I'd actually completely agree with this. As a simple example of something different from MMOs of old, I have more or less played this game the way I have other Elder Scrolls games - I meander around and just happen upon things to do. Most MMO's direct me from hub to hub where I take a pile of quests all at once. The effective difference, I think, is that I'm more inclined to pay attention to what I'm being asked to do and why.

BloatedGuppy said:
I think it does need to play like them to earn direct comparisons to them. That is the point of comparisons, is it not? I see we have now raised the bar for comparisons to "generic game", which is a decidedly wide envelope that could hypothetically encompass almost anything.
Having played for several dozen hours now I'd say that comparing the game to WoW doesn't make a lot of sense. Were I to try and describe the game using others as examples I'd say it's Skyrim meets Neverwinter. Neither game particularly reminds me of WoW.
 

SajuukKhar

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My answer would be no, based simply off the fact that its an outright lie that MMO devs need sub money to make content an give it to everyone, which is why TESO said it needed the subs.

GW2 is still the better game, and uses a lot less scummy tactics to achive its goals.

And this is ME of all forumgoers saying no to a TES game.

Not to mention that terrible lorebreaking plotline/ending
 

Fdzzaigl

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It's not like Skyrim, you need to understand that first.

Secondly, if you played a number of MMO's before you will likely notice some majorly flawed mechanics (don't expect to easily play the PvE in a group for example). Rewards from the monsters you kill are also minimal and killing quest bosses is often anticlimactic because they die in 2 seconds as other players stand in line to get the kill for their quests.

If you're a big sucker for TES lore, then maybe you will be interested in it. The quests have a large amount of lore spewed at you by NPC's.
 

likalaruku

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likalaruku said:
*Crafting systems is beyond soul crushing & needs a lot of tweaking.
BloatedGuppy said:
Not true. The crafting is generally excellent, and tends to be one of the few almost universally praised elements. What a bizarre thing for someone to single out to criticize.
This one was ChaosD1's complaint. Either he found the crafting annoying compared to MMOs with swift crafting like Ragnarok 2, or it's because he was playing in closed beta.

likalaruku said:
*Rush through to end game for eternal PvP.
BloatedGuppy said:
Rushing through anything is a player choice, not a game design element. The game actually rewards slowpokes more than rushers. This is naturally a boon for slowpokes, and an irritation for rushers.
This one was Joe's complaint. I'm guessing it's one of those games that caps out at level 50 & goes into a mastery system. I avoid PvP, so I'll never know.

likalaruku said:
*$60 purchase AND subscription AND a cash shop? Tisk tisk tisk....
BloatedGuppy said:
There's no "cash shop". There's a $20 upgrade to the deluxe version if you decide after the fact you wish you'd bought it (community asked for it) and ONE horse, equivalent to the worst horse in the game (community asked for it).
I was unable to actually find anything on it having a cash shop. the complaints are about them having plans to implement one.

likalaruku said:
*Pay real money or stay broke; everything drops 1 gold, bosses drop 2 gold. Mounts costs 17,000 - 42,700 gold.
BloatedGuppy said:
Absolute horseshit. Again, you can buy ONE thing...a shit mount...and your primary source of gold comes through items found and sold, not looting gold off mobs. I'm barely over level 10 and I've already made over 15,000 gold.
Well, that's how it went for Joe's group. & his review is barely a week old.

likalaruku said:
*World of Elder Scrolls Craft.
BloatedGuppy said:
I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean. Is comparing games to the juggernaut MMO that re-defined the genre supposed to be an insult? It's not at all like WoW, btw. Which is unfortunate, because if any of these so called "WoW clones" had actually succeeded in cloning WoW we'd have another 10+ million sub pop culture sensation to play.
ChaosD1 has a hard time NOT comparing things to WoW, but the two guest reviewers also felt that it didn't play like ES & that the developers were trying to appeal to the WoW crowd with familiar game mechanics.

likalaruku said:
*Graphics are at least better than Skyrim.
BloatedGuppy said:
Character graphics are. Everything else is worse than Skyrim.
Since both the MMO & any ES game can be moded, it's kind of a mute point.

likalaruku said:
*No cool down time for skills.
BloatedGuppy said:
I don't know why this is a positive. The game could've benefitted from another 5-10 slots and active abilities on cooldown. Add depth to the combat.
Taste is subjective, & some gamers are lazy. For every 50 people screaming for dymanic combat, there's going to be at least one person who tries it & wants to go back to whack-whack-whack-kill.

likalaruku said:
*20 hours of content per zone. Hope you don't bore of familiar environments quickly.
BloatedGuppy said:
Are you actually trying to turn a huge positive into a back handed negative? The enormous zone sizes and content depth are an OVERWHELMING POSITIVE, as they would and should be in any game.
Personally, I can't stand to be in any area for more than 2-3 days. The very first thing I do when I enter a new zone is a good half hour of landscape photography.

likalaruku said:
*Unemployed? Don't trust banks? This game probably won't last a year before dropping the subscription model & going FTP.
BloatedGuppy said:
Going FTP has long been a wise business decision after the 6mo to 1 year mark. Why? Profits go UP, subscribers go UP. SWTOR is making money hand over fist as a FTP title, as did LOTRO before it. I'm not sure what "won't last a year" means in this sense, as a transition from one business model to another does not make the game disappear. The level of ignorance in the general gaming community surrounding MMOs, FTP models, and what it means when one makes that transition in terms of the game's profitability and population is staggering to me.
Yeah, I've read many a quote from Subscription Elitists who can't even fathom the idea of a goof FTP MMO or the worst PTP being worse than the best FTP. Worse yet, I often see that the ONLY reason they claim to be playing a game is BECAUSE it charges a subscription, like...."fun be damned, spending makes me feel good." There are some stubborn publishers & developers who would shut a game down before they'd switch to the FTP model.
 

klaynexas3

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krazykidd said:
I have to disagree on you about the story part of WoW. Most any quest line will tell you in the flavor text what's going on and why you're getting 8 wolf hearts for Mrs McMuffin, and a fair bit of the lore of your chosen race is summarized in an opening cinematic. As to the rest of the lore you don't get filled in on in the places you don't quest or races you don't play, that really just adds to the suspension of belief that this is an actual world, and not just some playground with a story you can summarize in a few paragraphs of text. The story is really the part of WoW that makes it feel grand and epic, because it feels like an actual history of a world, civilizations rise and fall, races live and die, leaders fade in and out of memory, there is so much to it that it's overwhelming just enough to cause the player to want to learn more.

Now I realize that's not for everyone, but I feel like if someone is wanting a straight forward story, then the MMO genre just doesn't seem the right place to look for it.

OT: eh, I haven't heard anything defining about it, but if you like TES lore a lot, and you're willing to pay each month, go for it. Past that, it looks like an MMO, so, yeah.