End of Evangelion: THE HELL WAS THAT?

[Soviet Heavy]

Dude, watch this, the good stuff starts at like 1:50

Dammit Worgen, I almost doubted you there. First I thought you were going to do the dick thing where you can't back up an argument so you slap a video on to talk for you. Then I actually watched it.

Ran out of ink didn't you, you bastards!

 

[Daniel Ferguson]

Weeeeell, it was a massive "fuck you" to the fans... of an already pretty mental show. I enjoyed the show - it's my favourite anime of all time (despite how fucked up it is) - and it's loaded with symbolism and psychological studies. That's what people are fans of. That and the buckets of blood. But don't get me wrong, it ain't anywhere near perfect. Asuka, for one, gets on my nerves and I was fine with her getting what she got toward the end. I enjoy the remakes because they're less "fucked up for fucked-up's sake". The creator was going through a seriously dark time, of course, and seems to be through the worst of it with the newer version. But if you want fields of flowers and warm fuzzy feelings, you're watching the wrong anime.

I'm glad you're levelling an argument at it because of it's truly sick view on life et al... and not because you "don't get it". It means you're intelligent.

It is a psychological drama - or melodrama, especially in Asuka's case - filled to bursting with Issues. It's a portrait of a crapsack world with messed up human beings, and if it wasn't, I'd think it was just gorn and melodrama... which basically sums up EOE in two words. But I would appreciate it if the characters weren't completely despicable and had redeeming qualities. They don't, not really. At least Remake has toned that down, making the characters more likeable. But the thing is, the big draw for me was that Shinji was so relatable to me, as someone with a form of Autism and a thoroughly hate-spewing view of the world at age 15 (I had frustrations like you wouldn't believe, due to my condition, up until just recently, at age 27). Shinji was me, though I hate that now. When I was 15, it was different. I could relate... and that was bad. I've since grown up a lot, realised some things, found inner peace (more or less) and known happiness. I haven't known love, but we can't have everything. I've developed as a person. Shinji didn't. Asuka devolved. Gendo was still an uncaring asshole. Rei actually became stronger, which was cool. "I am not your doll" was her greatest line ever... except she didn't say it in my country's version. But on the whole... nobody really grew. In fact, if they changed at all, they became darker than their less-than-shiny early-series counterparts.

It's a crapsack world in Evangelion, and that's the point. You could change it, make it more positive in places... but would you still have the same show? Definitely not.

If you want a more positive, less fucked up version, try RahXephon. Don't bother with the series-recap movie, though, is what I've heard. Ayato is... actually pretty normal. The people are more or less clearly goodguys. It's a LOT nicer... which isn't to say it doesn't have strangeness and buckets of blood in areas. Those Dolems seem to burst into blood on a regular basis. But it's still a far more positive, WAY less FUBAR nod to Evangelion.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

So.... yeah. The fuck was that!?

There's a reason it's called a Gainax Ending. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GainaxEnding]

Seriously, though, NGE is not for everyone, and the confusing mindfuckery was entirely intentional on the part of the creators. I feel bad that you were forced to watch it; that almost guaranteed that you wouldn't enjoy it.

To address your confusion, I have prepared a short (ha!) summary of the basic plot as I understand it;

Spoiler

Asuka is still comatose due to the events of episodes 22-24. Shinji is distraught after killing Kaworu in episode 24 and visits Asuka to try and wake her up; a combination of sexual frustration and guilt cause him to masturbate over her. SEELE, the shadowy conspiracy that funded NERV and the creation of the Evangelions, realise that the death of the last Angel leaves Gendo Ikari in sole control of a squad of giant death robots; they attempt to shut NERV down by sending in the Japanese military.

The JSSDF soldiers kill almost all of the NERV personnel in the process of hunting down the Eva pilots to execute them. Misato orders Asuka to be put inside Unit-02 and hidden at the bottom of a lake, before going to rescue Shinji, who is paralyzed into inaction. She manages to get Shinji to Unit-01, but is killed in the process.

Gendo Ikari takes Rei to the bottom level of the NERV complex. He prevents Ritsuko from activating the facility's self-destruct and kills her. Meanwhile, Shinji hestitates to enter Unit-01, as he is paralysed by doubt.

Asuka has an epiphany while inside Unit-02 and manages to reactivate it, engaging the JSSDF forces on the ground. In response, SEELE launches nine mass-production Evas - new, automated models intended to replace the original series. Asuka defeats all nine Evas shortly before running out of power, but the mass-production models are equipped with experimental engines harvested from dead Angels; they reactivate through their injuries and dismember Unit-02, partially cannibalising it with Asuka still inside and presumably killed. Shinji (finally) gets into Unit-01, but he is too late to save Asuka, and freaks out when he sees the remains of her Eva.

Inside the NERV sublevels, Gendo attempts to use Rei to merge with Lilith, a captive Angel, to kick-start the apocalypse - this was the Angel's goal throughout the series, but Gendo is attempting to do it on his own terms and control the process. This is revealed to be the ultimate reason for Rei's creation (it has been established in the series that Rei is one of a series of clones made from the genetic tissue of Shinji's mother). However, Rei rejects his control, merges with Lilith, and kills Gendo.

Outside, the drone Evas crucify Unit-01. It's implied that as the drone piloting systems were based on Kaworu (one of the last angels and an Eva pilot), they are now working with Rei/Lilith instead of for SEELE. Everything gets intensely surreal as a huge Rei/Lilith amalgamation rises out of the NERV base and confronts Shinji, who is basically bananas at this point.

The rest of the film is essentially a dream sequence taking place inside Unit-01 as Rei initiates the Rapture. It is revealed that the AT field which the Evas and the Angels produce and use as a defence mechanism is in fact a force that binds all matter together into individual entities; after a conversation with Shinji in which he says that the world can just go fuck itself, Rei releases an anti-AT field that negates the AT fields of everyone on the planet, causing them to dissolve into primordial soup (LCL), assuming a collective consciousness in the process. This is revealed to be the "Third Impact" that the Angels have been trying to instigate throughout the entire series; the "apocalypse" in this case is the universal destruction of individual identity.

Shinji is given control of the collective human consciousness, but his insecurity and self-hatred prevent him from fully accepting it. He has an epiphany regarding the series' central theme of alienation, and comes to the conclusion that although individuality means confusion, loneliness, doubt and suffering, he is unable to accept any other state of being; he consequently rejects the assimilation process, killing Rei and allowing AT fields to form once more.

The film ends on a mindfuck note, with Shinji waking up next to a wounded Asuka on a beach aside a sea of LCL; they alone have had the strength of ego to re-assume individual form. Shinji tries to talk to an unresponsive Asuka, and begins to choke her out of anger; she touches his cheek to show him she's still alive.

As discussion, what the hell did you think of EOE when you saw it? Were you more accepting of is going into the film as a fan of the series, or were you press ganged like me into watching it and being utterly lost?

Obviously, being a fan of the series helps you accept some of the more egregiously nonsensical elements. I got into NGE when I was a young teenager, and it had a formative effect on my taste in entertainment for at least six years until I stopped watching anime altogether.

As to the series...I thought it was brilliant, partly because it's really a series about clinical depression disguised as a mecha anime, partly because had awesome giant robots fighting giant monsters, and also because of its sheer balls-out insanity and unrepentant density. NGE really doesn't care if you don't understand it. There are two responses; you can say "fuck it" and drop the series (which is a perfectly valid response), or you can spend hours attempting to decipher the plot because you are an insane masochist. As you can see from the wall'o'text in the spoiler tags, it is not an easy plot to summarise.

That said, if you're not a fan you're not a fan, and it's kind of upsetting that you were press-ganged into watching it because it's clear you weren't interested in it very much, and any chance you had of enjoying it was ruined by the compulsory nature of the experience.

I can say that the series is a lot easier to swallow if you watch all the episodes in order - I'm trying to avoid saying "you don't get it because you haven't watched the series", but that's basically it; it really makes no sense if you haven't watched the prior episodes. End of Evangelion itself is really just a do-over of the last two episodes of the series, which were incomplete due to budget constraints. It's really a direct continuation of the series plot. NGE is a confusing series, but you hardly helped yourself by not watching the whole series up to episode 24 before watching the movie. Your friend is kind of a douche for not telling you that.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Well, seeing as you haven't watched the series, what in crikey fuck did you expect?

But yes, I love it. I remember watching it for the first time oh so many years ago and having my brain and heart severely lashed in the process. I went from being really confused and wanting to look behind the curtain (the series ending), to being in horrifying shock and awe when the curtain was finally lifted entirely (EoE's ending).

I love it for it's animation. I love it for being one of the few movies that depicts the end of the world. And I love it for having the balls to expose its characters down to their nitty gritty core.

It also has the most badass fight scene of any animated movie, period. Leapfrog skull crush, indeed!

You think I wanted to watch this? Like I said, I'm not a fan of the series (in fact I think we've had this discussion before). I was aware of the human goo ending, but the means by which they come to that conclusion are..... impossible to put into words. Think screaming, pseudo symbolism and H.R Giger's japanese cousin given a blank cheque.

I'd advize you then to never again force or let yourself be forced to watch something you know you're not going to like. I was forced to watch Runaway Bride and You've Got Mail once... I still wake up certain nights by the sounds of my own screams.

Spoiler: Religious symbolism FTW

If there's one thing you need to bear in mind with Evangelion, it's that a lot of it was inspired by esoteric Western religion. Specifically, the series and film make specific nods towards the Dead Sea Scrolls, and Kabbalah.

In the Evangelion universe, the Dead Sea Scrolls weren't just some old documents, but prophetic writings that foretold of the battle between men and angels. They also (allegedly) showed SEELE how to build the Evangelion units and fight the angels, as well as giving a running plan of how things should go down. What's interesting is that the real Dead Sea Scrolls do actually make reference to Nephilim going to war with humanity. You can read excerpts online from certain apocryphal texts.

So, what does that have to do with the trippy stuff in EoE? Well, a lot of the surreal imagery in EoE comes from Kabbalah symbolism. Kabbalah is an esoteric offshoot of Judaism perhaps most famous for the concept of the Sephiroth, or the tree of life. The weird ritual towards the end of EoE is supposed to be a weird Kabbalah ritual that brings causes the apocalypse, or something. If you'll notice, not only to the mass-produced EVAs transform into more recognisable angels, but they actually crucify Shinji/Unit 01 to a holographic rendition of the Sephiroth.

Even more importantly, if you go back and watch the series, right from the first episode, the Sephiroth gets shown during the title credits. So far from being an ass-pull, Anno and company were actually referring to stuff they'd been foreshadowing right from the first episode.

In short, the trippy stuff at the end of EoE is basically the Kabbalah version of Armageddon, as seen by a bunch of Japanese animators. There's other stuff designed to key you in to the religious symbolism: the look of divine rapture on the Mass-EVA's faces as they bring about the Rapture, for one.

You know, I love the series, but I've honestly never held the religious symbolism in any high regard. I always saw it as merely window dressing and using heavy sounding names to establish the lore. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I mean, calling a trio of super computers Casper, Melchior, and Balthasar simply implies that these are three badass thinking machines. That's really all the meaning the names need to have.

The only genuine religious undercurrent I really detect in the series is that the story of Shinji is very similar to the story of Job.

 

[Talaris]

I watched EoE back last March having just watched the series for the first time, and it left me feeling disturbed and annoyed, but at the same time I still did enjoy the film.

The story itself was a mess; as other members have said there are certain exposition drops within the series that aren't chronologically told to the audience, meaning that the importance of what is being said is lost on you that results in later scenes being really confusing. After watching EoE I still didn't understand a lot of what happened; the origins of Adam and Lilith and the Rei clones was the hardest to get to grips with. Yet I still loved the visual imagery, and the emotional impact of the apocalyptic events. Love or hate him, Shinji certainly isn't boring to watch on screen.

With everything that happens, EoE remains unforgettable, even if you come out disliking it.

Oh and here's a video that I saw right after that helped explain the plot points of the series:

 

[TakerFoxx]

Seeing how the show pretty much charts the progress of a mentally unstable man as he undergoes therapy and explores issues, the mindfuckery is to be expected. It's actually kind of fascinating, as when the show began, it was kind of moody but more subdued, as if in "I have problems but I don't want to talk about them." But when the director does finally start getting help, those issues get blown wide open. Hence, the latter part of the series and End of Evangelion.

The Rebuild Series is pretty much the same man after being rehabilitated and having spent several years in a happy marriage.

 

[Angie7F]

It is my favorite anime film too, but when i first watched it, I was totally lost and did not follow the story at all.
I think the series is largely popular due to the fact that is has a incomplete story and has had fans trying to figure it out for so many years.

I recently watched the Macross and Gundam series, but they are so properly made that once I watch it through, I am pretty much happy with it and will move on to the next series. EOE does not allow me to do that at all.

I think it is one of those things where you will either love or hate it.
I think Akira is similar in a sense.
But if the new series can make new records on its release, there must be a lot of people who identify with it.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

-snip-

You basically saw the grand finale to a series by a guy who was literally off his rocker when he did it and was also his big F### YOU to fans who hated how it originally ended.

Seeing the preceding series helps (generally seeing/reading series from start to finish is a good idea) but in this case I suspect it wouldn't have helped much.

Neon Genesis Evangelion pretty much kick-started the angst train and is more of psychologically driven drama than a mecha story anyway.

If that isn't your thing, than it isn't your thing. Forcing yourself to watch it isn't going to help you.

 

[Baron von Blitztank]

Weirdly enough, I don't like NGE but I'd happily sit through this movie again. It's like going on an acid trip where you see giant mechs brutalizing the fuck out of eachother, giant naked girls sprouting from the earth, vagina foreheads, people turning into tang and a catchy but depressing song overlooking the end of the world.

And it sure as hell makes for a better climax than this:

 

[Project_Xii]

After reading all these comments.....

I feel I REALLY need to see this anime. Nothing this fucked up should be missed! I've never watched a single Evangelion (hates mechs usually so just avoided), but can someone suggest the bare minimum ones to watch? Remakes/reboots or something?

 

[CrazyGirl17]

...Oh dear... what you have to understand is that at the time Hideaki Anno was... not well, not to mention his marital issues.

Also, the movie was made as a "Take That" to all the fans who complained about the show's ending... to the point of sending death threats. (Jesus Christ! Priorities people!) And as much as I enjoy seeing crazy fans taken down a peg or two...or ten... this was not the way to do it. (Thank God EA/Bioware didn't go this route after Mass Effect 3...)

Thankfully, Anno is in a better mental state now, and making the Rebuild of Evangelion movies, which (hopefully) will have a better ending than this movie (or even the TV show...)

 

[Worgen]

Dude, watch this, the good stuff starts at like 1:50

Dammit Worgen, I almost doubted you there. First I thought you were going to do the dick thing where you can't back up an argument so you slap a video on to talk for you. Then I actually watched it.

Ran out of ink didn't you, you bastards!

Your first mistake was to ever doubt me and that I would deliver something that wasn't awesome.

I've heard that the main guy behind the series, Hideaki Anno started hating it about half way though and that is why the last half of it starts getting so weird but I don't have any links to prove it.

 

[xedobubble]

NGE basically split its episodes between giant monster battles and navel-gazing/emo whinging, depending on how charitable you are. The ending to the TV show completely abandoned monster battles to focus on the navel gazing conclusion, making it bizarre and hated by the fans that followed the show for the actual plot rather than the character/philosophical threads.

The movie is basically the antithesis of that - all monster battles, no emo whinging at all. But I always felt it was a Take That directed at the fanbase. The death threats sent to Hideaki were the kanji that flashed up during the show, which is weird and creepy to say the least. But I also thought that the movie stripped away a lot of the character development that the show had built up, at least for Shinji, Rei, and Misato.

 

[beniki]

-snip-

I like talking about this, as I have a unique opinion on Eva, which raised my appreciation of it considerably.

It's satire of big mecha anime.

It takes the premise of teenage boy piloting giant war machine in spandex, and just changes one variable: it makes the boy more realistic. Shinji is actually the most level headed of all the characters. He doesn't buy into the completely insane situations and world, whereas the rest of the cast can't understand his lack of enthusiasm. Part of what makes it so uncomfortable to watch is just how close to home the satire gets. Even the bizarre religious imagery is a reference to the chaotic art design big mecha anime tends to have.

Sadly, no one got the joke. Some dismissed it, and some, perhaps more damaging to the creator, took it seriously.

The original ending was pitch perfect... it neatly portrayed the shoe horned in ethical message that nearly all anime has, including the often trippy sequences associated with final episodes. The only thing different they did was cut out the action sequences, leaving it more as an abstract evaluation of big mecha anime in general. That... really doesn't work with the general anime watching public. This is an audience that appreciates stability in story telling, with obvious checkpoints (beach party episode, hot springs episode etc... all of which Eva parodies in subtle ways). So a remake was made.

End of Evangelion can either be looked at as making the parody more obvious (which was unsuccessful), or as is more often interpreted, the creator literally ripping apart his own creation as an attack on the fans. It's all there. Watch it again, and bring with you a checklist of stuff you'd expect to see in a finale, and look for the twist on each one.

Neon Genesis Evangelion has depth... just not the kind of depth that everyone thinks it has.

 

[Sylveria]

First off.. I'm very sorry you watch EoE. May your recovery be speedy.

Second.. I still have no clue what that mindfuckery was or was supposed to be. All I know is I was so pissed afterwards I've never watched anything Evangelion related since.

 

[bearlotz]

Spoiler: snip

Oookaaaay, I have watched only a few anime series all the way through, and NGE is not one of them. I really, really did not like the show, and I put it down in disgust. I've tried watching the 2.0 film reboots, and they are still full of the whinging self hatred that Mister Anno seems to have for himself, but they were paced better at least.

Still, I just watched EOE at a friend's request. Excuse me, but what in the flying fuck was that? I knew about the pile of people goo instrumentality, but seriously, what the fuck?

The ending of the movie was basically "watch shit explode in torrents of blood brought to you from the night terrors of the creator" before diving into fifteen minute long monologues against fucking bizarre imagery.

And that was just the ending. Even when there was some semblance of normality in the beginning, you still had to contend with bizarre shit like Shinji the world's most neurotic teenager jerking off over Asuka in the medical ward. And the frankly incomprehensible story did not help things. Seele wants to shut down Nerv by using their own Evas, then Gendo turns out to be wanting this, while everyone gets slaughtered or impaled on a spear before getting eaten by giant robot birds before the seizure inducing pile of goo parade.

So.... yeah. The fuck was that!?

I feel the need to add something, before you start accusing me of not getting it for not watching the series. I repeat, I didn't choose to watch this. I watched it because my friend put it on and I had nothing else to do. It was not my choice to watch this madness.

As discussion, what the hell did you think of EOE when you saw it? Were you more accepting of is going into the film as a fan of the series, or were you press ganged like me into watching it and being utterly lost?

CAPTCHA: Whoops a daisy

that doesn't begin to describe the film.

Your friends did you a massive disservice here, if you hadn't seen the entire series then you really went into this marathon with both kneecaps shot out. Beyond that several people have already posted (extremely) thorough explanations of both the movie and the entire series as well as the various religious symbolism and the author's deteriorating mental state here.

I really liked both the movie and the series. Without question it's one of the most seriously fucked-up things I have ever seen in my life, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. For all the hating that Shinji gets, I think most of his actions are pretty understandable.

Spoiler: because reasons

His mother died when he was very young, his father straight-up abandoned him to the care of his teacher, and he lives in a world that has just recently recovered from "post-apocalypse" status. The story picks up in the series where he has been called to come see his father for some unknown reason and eagerly goes, thinking that maybe his father wants to spend some time with him or get to know him. Instead, he gets dragged into a military base to finally see his father...who promptly informs him that his only reason for being here is to merge his mind, body, and soul with a false god created by mankind by reverse-engineering the Angels (i.e., the beings responsible for the current state of the world) and go fight another Angel who is currently attempting to finish what the first one started. When he quite rationally says "No way in hell, I've never even seen one of these things before and I am grossly unqualified for this job. I wouldn't have even come here if I knew what was going to happen", they guilt-trip him by rolling in a bandaged and broken girl on a hospital gurney and telling him "If you don't do it, then we're going to make her do it. Your call though". So he does it, he takes this false-god-machine out for a spin to fight the Angel...and gets a hole punched through his freaking head (recall the direct nervous system link to the Eva). And throughout the series, he continues to get back into the Eva and pilot it, not because he wants to but because this is the only way he knows to even attempt to get the barest recognition from his father.

The characters aren't supposed to be likable or relatable, they are horribly broken human beings trying to exist in a world that sees them as dutiful heroes first and human beings with human needs second. It calls into question the attitude of the children in most mecha anime and that of the military or other organizations who force them into that situation.

It depends on what you want to do: you could dismiss it as the psychotic ramblings of an unbalanced basket case, or you could watch the series to give the movie a fair shake. If it's not your thing then it's not your thing, but at this point you don't really have enough information to judge that if all you've seen is the movie. My personal rule for judging anime is to watch the first 5 episodes before evaluating it, that's usually enough time to get the gist of what the show is about and what tone it will take as well as answering some general questions about the universe it takes place in.

 

[Falseprophet]

Oookaaaay, I have watched only a few anime series all the way through, and NGE is not one of them. I really, really did not like the show, and I put it down in disgust. I've tried watching the 2.0 film reboots, and they are still full of the whinging self hatred that Mister Anno seems to have for himself, but they were paced better at least.

Still, I just watched EOE at a friend's request. Excuse me, but what in the flying fuck was that? I knew about the pile of people goo instrumentality, but seriously, what the fuck?

I first saw EOE some time around 1998-99 with my university's anime club. There were 200-300 people, most of us big fans of NGE, which was the biggest hit in anime in years.

When the movie ended, the lights came up, and everyone was silent for a good 2 minutes. Then everyone starting saying the exact same thing; "What the fuck was that!?"

I loved NGE around the time it was coming out, when I was a university student just getting into anime with free time to pursue fan theories online. Today, I don't think I'd have any patience for it. But I still respect it for being one of the last expressions of an anime auteur. Satoshi Kon is dead, Katsuhiro Otomo hasn't done anything in years, Miyazaki takes 4 years between films and probably doesn't have too many left in him. Anno's NGE is one of the last anime masterpieces with vision, however twisted and disturbed that vision was.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

After reading all these comments.....

I feel I REALLY need to see this anime. Nothing this fucked up should be missed! I've never watched a single Evangelion (hates mechs usually so just avoided), but can someone suggest the bare minimum ones to watch? Remakes/reboots or something?

As I stated in my earlier post the Mecha are more plot devices than anything and the series is more psychologically driven drama than Mecha dukeing it out.

There is only one season plus the End of Evangelion movie. (There is also the reboot movies which are up to number 3 but they are nowhere as trippy as the original).

DO NOT do what the OP did and see the movie first.