EndWar For PC Delayed By Piracy

[3LANCER]

Not piracy - ignorant developers are killing PC

 

[CyberAkuma]

EDIT: I didn't know there was another thread on this subject - so I'll post my rant about this issue right here instead.

So they're at it again.
The videogame industry;or more specifically a certain branch of the videogame industry is pointing fingers, and they're pointing fingers at you for their games not selling so well.
They're basically telling us that the main reason why they don't release their games for the PC at the same time as the console equivalent is because of PC piracy.

To me as a PC gamer, it's hard to take this other than a insult based in ignorance and hubris about the quality of their own games. (While UbiSoft suffering from hubris isn't really news [http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53249])

This is mainly because; but not limited to the fact that the quality of the PC port of the game have been downright disappointing. The PC is a vastly superior machine both in hardware and software. It doesn't bother me that I have to wait months after the game has retailed for consoles for it to get released on the PC platform. What bothers me is that 4 months later I get a despicably bad port of the game that not only lacks quality but also laughs at my gaming hardware and instead reorts to display ugly last-generation graphics with game controllers ranging from downright poor to outrageously unplayable. Alone in the Dark is obviously one big example in all this, and it doesn't help that the game is getting a major overhaul [http://www.gametrailers.com/player/39995.html] for the PS3 version to fix all the bugs while the PC version is still majorly unplayable.

While I feel offended I also feel a slight discomfort in knowing that this is mainly going to be UbiSofts main view on us PC gamers. The "Piracy is killing our sales! Not because our games suck"-approach is in my view entirely rediculous.

To finish off this little rant I could say that I couldn't care less about another Tom Clancy game that according to the article hasn't gotten any good reviews lately. So what else is new?
After what they laughingly called a "sequel" to Rainbow Six Vegas I really couldn't care less about what they have next in stock for a strategic/action shooter.

Is it only me that fails to see the point of stopping piracy by releasing a poor port 6 months after the game has been released for consoles without any aditional content with a full retail price sticker on it?

 

[Dys]

Piracy is the new Godwins Law!

Yeah it's kinda ironic- is it even POSSIBLE to pirate steam games?

It is possible, I know somebody who has a cracked version of the orange box. I'm guessing it takes a lot of work though.

Actually its incredibly easy to pirate steam games.
Of course its retarded, as I don't think there's any single valve produced game that costs more than $40, and by pirateing it you inevitably limit the gaming experience.
In fact, I wouldn't have "bought" (I receiced complimentary black box copies , I did buy HL2 ep 1 though) any game of steam if I hadn't pirated and liked them.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Leaving room for Apple to swoop in with iTunes.

Whine now, pay later.

I think Steam has well and truly swooped.

 

[Flour]

I myself can only laugh at these "piracy makes us do X" excuses.
They're only increasing the number of people that will download the game, especially because they're too dumb to be honest and say that the game is not ready yet.(if the demo thing I read in this thread is true)

Pirating games = sneaking into a movie theater.

Even if the movie is bad, you still snuck in the back when others had to pay.

How can you compare stealing space from a company(you're using a chair that should be for a paying customer) to downloading a game?(you're using data bought by someone else that that person decided to upload online for free)

The difference is in stealing a physical space, and placing a camera in the theater that you retrieve after all guests have left.(the camera being in a place where it doesn't bother any paying customer)

 

[TOGSolid]

Pirating games = sneaking into a movie theater.

Even if the movie is bad, you still snuck in the back when others had to pay.

Interesting anecdote: That's how I earned my TOGSolid nick.

Games that can hold their own get bought, regardless of piracy.

This is SO not true. I know TONS of people that never buy games and music because "I can get it for free anyway".

Hey watch this:

Games that can hold their own get bought, regardless of piracy.

This is SO true. I know TONS of people that buy games and music because "They're good".

Except I can actually back that up with Galactic Civilizations 1 and 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire. All of which posted great sales and had 0 DRM.

 

[Jimmyjames]

This is SO true. I know TONS of people that buy games and music because "They're good".

Except I can actually back that up with Galactic Civilizations 1 and 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire. All of which posted great sales and had 0 DRM.

Sure, no one is arguing that people buy games that are good. But it doesn't change the fact that lots of people pirate games whether they're exceptional or not. Example: I'm the ONLY one of my friends that bought "Orange Box". Three of my friends downloaded it, which sucks because we can't play TF online together.

There's no excuse for pirating games, regardless of quality. Maybe companies overreact about it, but imagine how much better their sales would be (and therefore their resources for making BETTER GAMES) if everyone that pirated it bothered to actually purchase the game.

Pirating is a dick move, and no one here has changed my opinion.

 

[SimuLord]

This is SO true. I know TONS of people that buy games and music because "They're good".

Except I can actually back that up with Galactic Civilizations 1 and 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire. All of which posted great sales and had 0 DRM.

Sure, no one is arguing that people buy games that are good. But it doesn't change the fact that lots of people pirate games whether they're exceptional or not. Example: I'm the ONLY one of my friends that bought "Orange Box". Three of my friends downloaded it, which sucks because we can't play TF online together.

There's no excuse for pirating games, regardless of quality. Maybe companies overreact about it, but imagine how much better their sales would be (and therefore their resources for making BETTER GAMES) if everyone that pirated it bothered to actually purchase the game.

Pirating is a dick move, and no one here has changed my opinion.

Key phrase up there is "we can't play TF online together". Steam is a prime example of a service where any DRM/protection exists to make the pirated version of a product inferior to the genuinely purchased one. Sure, your friends can play Portal, but if they want to play TF2 and enjoy it the way legitimate customers do they're SOL until they fork over the money. I'm entirely in favor of things like that.

Meanwhile, with EA's DRM, the pirates not only get the game for free, they get a higher-quality product because there's nothing to break their computer (my wife bought Spore and SecuROM makes it impossible for her to use her CD-burning software to burn mixes of MP3s she rips from CDs she legitimately owns.) When you're pretty much requiring your customers to uninstall your product and then REINSTALL WINDOWS just to get control of their computer back, that's going too far.

 

[Zani]

Just because someone pirates a game copy, doesn't mean they would have bought it otherwise, so they aren't losing that much money when you think about it, besides a game like EndWar is supposed to be played online, without that it's not even a half game.

And from what I have heard, EndWar should be released for PC in the start of 2009, if that's true, THEN they will probaly lose money, I know I won't buy it if that's true.

 

[Jimmyjames]

Meanwhile, with EA's DRM, the pirates not only get the game for free, they get a higher-quality product because there's nothing to break their computer (my wife bought Spore and SecuROM makes it impossible for her to use her CD-burning software to burn mixes of MP3s she rips from CDs she legitimately owns.) When you're pretty much requiring your customers to uninstall your product and then REINSTALL WINDOWS just to get control of their computer back, that's going too far.

You need to read the thread. I said I don't like the DRM. Therefore, I don't buy the game.

The issue isn't piracy because of DRM. It's piracy in general- and is it hurting PC games. If you wzant to look at it that way, DRM is a response to piracy. So, PC game pirates have fucked everyone who buys legitimate copies.

Someone else mentioned sneaking into a theater. If ticket prices go up because people are sneaking into the theater and the theater isn't making enough money from the movie, what happens? Same thing- jerks fucked the honest people.

Just because someone pirates a game copy, doesn't mean they would have bought it otherwise, so they aren't losing that much money when you think about it,...

Wait... so just because they wouldn't have otherwise payed for the game, it's OK to steal it? That doesn't make any rational sense. Why should they get to play it at all without paying for it? I wouldn't buy a Britney Spears album either, but does that give me the right to steal one? I can't afford a BMW, but that doesn't give me cause to go steal one of those, either.

If you want to try it out, download the demo. Almost every single game has one.

You want to play it, great- go buy it. You don't want to pay for it? Well, you don't get to play it.

 

[TOGSolid]

This is SO true. I know TONS of people that buy games and music because "They're good".

Except I can actually back that up with Galactic Civilizations 1 and 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire. All of which posted great sales and had 0 DRM.

Sure, no one is arguing that people buy games that are good. But it doesn't change the fact that lots of people pirate games whether they're exceptional or not. Example: I'm the ONLY one of my friends that bought "Orange Box". Three of my friends downloaded it, which sucks because we can't play TF online together.

There's no excuse for pirating games, regardless of quality. Maybe companies overreact about it, but imagine how much better their sales would be (and therefore their resources for making BETTER GAMES) if everyone that pirated it bothered to actually purchase the game.

Pirating is a dick move, and no one here has changed my opinion.

Once again, you seem to think your friends represent the entire gaming community. They don't, not by a long shot, which is what I was basically getting at. Yes, there are assholes that pirate games and never buy it, but they are the minority. Most gamers do buy their games. Yes a lot of them pirate also, but in most piracy discussions, you'll see the vast majority talking about how they treat it like a demo.
I totally admit I've pirated a few games, but I always buy the games I knew I'd want to keep playing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v407/dracofyre/Picture007.jpg <--because I know someone will try and play a "oh you're just saying that" card. Those are all purchased games.

If you want to try it out, download the demo. Almost every single game has one.

Demos these days suck. They're usually a 1.5 GB download for 10 minutes of gameplay that only illustrate exactly what they want you to see. It's just a sucker punch to get you to buy the game. I know more than a few guys who played the TFU demo and went "hey not bad" and then bought the game and were /facepalming the whole way through.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

This is SO true. I know TONS of people that buy games and music because "They're good".

Except I can actually back that up with Galactic Civilizations 1 and 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire. All of which posted great sales and had 0 DRM.

Sure, no one is arguing that people buy games that are good. But it doesn't change the fact that lots of people pirate games whether they're exceptional or not. Example: I'm the ONLY one of my friends that bought "Orange Box". Three of my friends downloaded it, which sucks because we can't play TF online together.

There's no excuse for pirating games, regardless of quality. Maybe companies overreact about it, but imagine how much better their sales would be (and therefore their resources for making BETTER GAMES) if everyone that pirated it bothered to actually purchase the game.

Pirating is a dick move, and no one here has changed my opinion.

Once again, you seem to think your friends represent the entire gaming community. They don't, not by a long shot, which is what I was basically getting at. Yes, there are assholes that pirate games and never buy it, but they are the minority. Most gamers do buy their games. Yes a lot of them pirate also, but in most piracy discussions, you'll see the vast majority talking about how they treat it like a demo.
I totally admit I've pirated a few games, but I always buy the games I knew I'd want to keep playing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v407/dracofyre/Picture007.jpg <--because I know someone will try and play a "oh you're just saying that" card. Those are all purchased games.

If you want to try it out, download the demo. Almost every single game has one.

Demos these days suck. They're usually a 1.5 GB download for 10 minutes of gameplay that only illustrate exactly what they want you to see. It's just a sucker punch to get you to buy the game. I know more than a few guys who played the TFU demo and went "hey not bad" and then bought the game and were /facepalming the whole way through.

Agreed, if Developers really want to curb on piracy, release sizable demo's that give you a good feel for the gameplay, be sure not just to highlight your strengths but all aspects of the game. We'll respect you for it and even if we give your game a pass your not selling at a loss.

 

[TOGSolid]

Arma had a great demo that really showed everything off and resulted in me purchasing it. Devs need to take a cue from those guys.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

Codgo, RS: Vegas should have showed you what the support for the multiplayer would be like.

Har har.

 

[Amnestic]

Key phrase up there is "we can't play TF online together". Steam is a prime example of a service where any DRM/protection exists to make the pirated version of a product inferior to the genuinely purchased one. Sure, your friends can play Portal, but if they want to play TF2 and enjoy it the way legitimate customers do they're SOL until they fork over the money. I'm entirely in favor of things like that.

Don't need DRM for things like that. Why, back in the olden days we had these things called "CD-Keys" and unless they were verified with the online server as non-pirated keys, then they couldn't play online.

Warcraft 3, to my knowledge, has no issue with people playing online with pirated copies. That game is six years old. ;/ Shows how far we've needlessly come, ey?

 

[TsunamiWombat]

Key phrase up there is "we can't play TF online together". Steam is a prime example of a service where any DRM/protection exists to make the pirated version of a product inferior to the genuinely purchased one. Sure, your friends can play Portal, but if they want to play TF2 and enjoy it the way legitimate customers do they're SOL until they fork over the money. I'm entirely in favor of things like that.

Don't need DRM for things like that. Why, back in the olden days we had these things called "CD-Keys" and unless they were verified with the online server as non-pirated keys, then they couldn't play online.

Warcraft 3, to my knowledge, has no issue with people playing online with pirated copies. That game is six years old. ;/ Shows how far we've needlessly come, ey?

CDkeys can be cracked, there are programs that'll generate CDKeys for you. Really it's impossible to prevent games from being cracked. There is an elegant solution to any problem, it's just up to us to figure it out.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

-and it's not DRM!...or a dongle.

Oh, and I keep hearing weird things about Far Cry 2, when is the actual release date? Is it the 21st or 22nd? Is the PC version the latter one so the console sales aren't cannibalized?

Clarification would be nice. I hope Ubisoft's policy isn't "PC version later ever time" now.

 

[ReepNeep]

CDkeys can be cracked, there are programs that'll generate CDKeys for you. Really it's impossible to prevent games from being cracked. There is an elegant solution to any problem, it's just up to us to figure it out.

You misunderstand the way CD Key authentication works. There is a master algorithm that generates the keys. Each time a disk is pressed and shipped the algorithm is run once, and it's result is added to a database that the publisher/developer maintains and is uploaded to the authentication server, as well as printed on a card to be shipped with the disk.

Keygens you can download off of the net use the same algorithm and spit out a key that will get past the cd key check built into the software. When the program phones home to check the key however (in days past that was only when someone tried to play online as the check was usually run when the server browser was opened while more modern ones make the check during the installation process denying simple keygen users access to the program at all), it is checked against the database and will be determined to be bogus because an original disk was never shipped with that key. The program may then be disabled, the key may be blacklisted or any number of other things. The possible outcomes of these algorithms number in the hundreds of millions or more, so the probability of a keygen spitting out a genuinely legitimate key are absolutely miniscule.

CD Keys are very effective methods of stopping casual piracy among the technologically illiterate, which is all DRM or indeed any anti-piracy measure can ever hope to do. They are also far less irritating to legitimate customers than mandatory registration or the absolutely draconian '3 installs, we might give you more if you ask us nicely' securom bullshit that seems to be popular now.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

CDkeys can be cracked, there are programs that'll generate CDKeys for you. Really it's impossible to prevent games from being cracked. There is an elegant solution to any problem, it's just up to us to figure it out.

You misunderstand the way CD Key authentication works. There is a master algorithm that generates the keys. Each time a disk is pressed and shipped the algorithm is run once, and it's result is added to a database that the publisher/developer maintains and is uploaded to the authentication server, as well as printed on a card to be shipped with the disk.

Keygens you can download off of the net use the same algorithm and spit out a key that will get past the cd key check built into the software. When the program phones home to check the key however (in days past that was only when someone tried to play online as the check was usually run when the server browser was opened while more modern ones make the check during the installation process denying simple keygen users access to the program at all), it is checked against the database and will be determined to be bogus because an original disk was never shipped with that key. The program may then be disabled, the key may be blacklisted or any number of other things. The possible outcomes of these algorithms number in the hundreds of millions or more, so the probability of a keygen spitting out a genuinely legitimate key are absolutely miniscule.

CD Keys are very effective methods of stopping casual piracy among the technologically illiterate, which is all DRM or indeed any anti-piracy measure can ever hope to do. They are also far less irritating to legitimate customers than mandatory registration or the absolutely draconian '3 installs, we might give you more if you ask us nicely' securom bullshit that seems to be popular now.

So why isn't this done...now?