English Irish Republican? The F**k?

[Wadders]

Am I the only Englishman that believes Ireland should be its own, united country, free of English rule?

[small] I know I'm not but I wana see how many agree [/small]

We English have fucked that country in the ass since the Protestant plantations of Tudor times, nigh on 600 years ago. Now I'm only a "simple lad", but that seems wrong to me.

I'm aware of the divisions that we have created within that island, and I am very sorry for the deaths that have occurred as a result, from Cromwell's massacres to Bloody Sunday (although it is not my fault, or the fault of any Englishman alive)

All I'm saying is, in an ideal world, we should go our separate ways. But whatever, this is just a semi-drunken, thinking aloud, kinda thing.

Feel free to rip into me, I know very little about this subject, its just as an Englishman with Irish ancestry, I feel kinda conflicted.

I suppose for discussion, you could argue about the current state of Ireland, and the pro's and cons of such a situation. Or something.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

To be honest I hadn't thought about it, so when it comes down to it I don't see it affecting me too much (personally). But if that is what Ireland want, that is what they should get. If they're not fussed, leave it be.

Also uneducated on the subject

 

[Outright Villainy]

I'm Irish, and I don't even want that!
Mainly because it's not really feasable. Make people who live in the north give up their homes, or their culture?

Thing is, Ireland is completely free from Brittish rule. The land we use is just a little smaller. I really don't see the big deal anymore...

 

[Faps]

Do you care that the majority of people in Northern Ireland identify themselves as British and want to be part of the United Kingdom?

 

[Azure-Supernova]

I'm Irish, and I don't even want that!
Mainly because it's not really feasable. Make people who live in the north give up their homes, or their culture?

Thing is, Ireland is completely free from Brittish rule. The land we use is just a little smaller. I really don't see the big deal anymore...

This is what I'm talking about. It sounds all very noble to relinquish official rule over Ireland... but do the people of Ireland really care? I'm sure some of them do...

 

[darkless]

Some care most don't we see ourselves as our own country were we to get the rest back that's fair enough but we can live without.

 

[Wadders]

Holy shit! An actual response! (or two) I though people were too distracted by telling everyone what they would do during a zombie apocalypse, or some other inane shite.

To be honest I hadn't thought about it, so when it comes down to it I don't see it affecting me too much (personally). But if that is what Ireland want, that is what they should get. If they're not fussed, leave it be.

Also uneducated on the subject

That's the point, we have divided the country, some want independence, some are more than happy to be part of Britain. If we had left it alone, this would not be the case. But I guess Ireland was an easy kick start to the British Empire...

I'm Irish, and I don't even want that!
Mainly because it's not really feasable. Make people who live in the north give up their homes, or their culture?

Thing is, Ireland is completely free from Brittish rule. The land we use is just a little smaller. I really don't see the big deal anymore...

I see your point. If you just view Ireland as the Republic, and Northern Ireland as Britan, then fair enough. But that's the issue I have. Your island is Irish, not British. Just as India is Indian, even though we fucked about with it during the glorious Empire days.

 

[Outright Villainy]

This is what I'm talking about. It sounds all very noble to relinquish official rule over Ireland... but do the people of Ireland really care? I'm sure some of them do...

Yeah, some of them do. Sinn féin has a scary amount of support in government, despite having literally no other policies. Fact is, this isn't some noble cause anymore, this isn't 1916 and we aren't fighting for our independance and to be free from oppresion. We already got that. I mean it doesn't stop Catholics living in the north having a pretty shitty time of it since, but a united Ireland wouldn't change that, it was all just about religious bigotry on both sides anyway. (and to a large extent it's still there)

 

[Wildrow12]

Doesn't matter. I'm taking it over either way once my machine uprising starts.

Also: I'm going to rename it, "Green Hill Zone".

 

[Azure-Supernova]

This is what I'm talking about. It sounds all very noble to relinquish official rule over Ireland... but do the people of Ireland really care? I'm sure some of them do...

Yeah, some of them do. Sinn féin has a scary amount of support in government, despite having literally no other policies. Fact is, this isn't some noble cause anymore, this isn't 1916 and we aren't fighting for our independance and to be free from oppresion. We already got that. I mean it doesn't stop Catholics living in the north having a pretty shitty time of it since, but a united Ireland wouldn't change that, it was all just about religious bigotry on both sides anyway. (and to a large extent it's still there)

Well like I said before, I'm uneducated on the subject so I really can't comment. I was just saying, would it matter in the end?

 

[Outright Villainy]

But that's the issue I have. Your island is Irish, not British. Just as India is Indian, even though we fucked about with it during the glorious Empire days.

I see what you're getting at, I'll give you a more extreme analogy: should 99% of america just up and leave their country and give it back to the native americans?
It's in the past now. Wronged as they were back then, this is many people's homes today, and they have a right to be there.

Funny how this is in reverse, the Irishman in support of partition...

 

[Outright Villainy]

Well like I said before, I'm uneducated on the subject so I really can't comment. I was just saying, would it matter in the end?

If all of Ireland were united? It'd be a shitstorm. It'd be literally annexing another country, like making canada part of america or something.

 

[Wadders]

I'm Irish, and I don't even want that!
Mainly because it's not really feasable. Make people who live in the north give up their homes, or their culture?

Thing is, Ireland is completely free from Brittish rule. The land we use is just a little smaller. I really don't see the big deal anymore...

This is what I'm talking about. It sounds all very noble to relinquish official rule over Ireland... but do the people of Ireland really care? I'm sure some of them do...

Some of them care enough to kill British soldiers over it. And I can understand that. If Irish soldiers occupied half of my country, I'd fight the bastards.

Do you care that the majority of people in Northern Ireland identify themselves as British and want to be part of the United Kingdom?

I understand this, but as I said, in an ideal world, they would not need to feel this way. I know they fought for us in the 2 world wars, but what have we given back? All it is is religious idiocy passed down for 400 years, down from the Tudor and Stuart periods. I think.

As a History student I ought to know more about this, I'm just influenced by my semi-Irish parentage.

 

[Blade Chunk]

Am I the only Englishman that believes Ireland should be its own, united country, free of English rule?

[small] I know I'm not but I wana see how many agree [/small]

We English have fucked that country in the ass since the Protestant plantations of Tudor times, nigh on 600 years ago. Now I'm only a "simple lad", but that seems wrong to me.

I'm aware of the divisions that we have created within that island, and I am very sorry for the deaths that have occurred as a result, from Cromwell's massacres to Bloody Sunday (although it is not my fault, or the fault of any Englishman alive)

All I'm saying is, in an ideal world, we should go our separate ways. But whatever, this is just a semi-drunken, thinking aloud, kinda thing.

Feel free to rip into me, I know very little about this subject, its just as an Englishman with Irish ancestry, I feel kinda conflicted.

I suppose for discussion, you could argue about the current state of Ireland, and the pro's and cons of such a situation. Or something.

I'm in a country where people today want me to not only feel bad, give them my money, and act inferior cause their racists parents said my parents taught me they were inferior. Honestly, like slavery in the United States, I think everyone needs to grow up and live in the now.

Now could Ireland handle being on it's own today and tomorrow is the question.

 

[BonsaiK]

Thread belongs in Religion and Politics.

I don't have any strong opinions on it. Unpleasant experiences with a very left-wing pro-Irish independence girlfriend who turned out to be a complete idiot on several other levels kind of put me off the whole subject. I don't really care what happens over there but I do wish the people involved in the conflicts would just grow up and sort things out amicably one way or another.

 

[Wadders]

But that's the issue I have. Your island is Irish, not British. Just as India is Indian, even though we fucked about with it during the glorious Empire days.

I see what you're getting at, I'll give you a more extreme analogy: should 99% of america just up and leave their country and give it back to the native americans?
It's in the past now. Wronged as they were back then, this is many people's homes today, and they have a right to be there.

Funny how this is in reverse, the Irishman in support of partition...

Haha yeah, I see your point. In the present day, the current arrangement is probabably the best option, much kudos to Michael Collins. I'm not suggesting all of the commonwelth countries cut ties with Britian and distance themselves from their history, it's just that places like Austraila and New Zealand and Canada are 100% under their own control, they just nobly suffer British tradition etc.

Ireland however, is split into two because of us. I'm not sayin' history should reverse itself, all I'm asking is in an ideal world, would you not prefer all of Ireland to be under Irish rule?

 

[Outright Villainy]

Ireland however, is split into two because of us. I'm not sayin' history should reverse itself, all I'm asking is in an ideal world, would you not prefer all of Ireland to be under Irish rule?

You mean should we have gotten it all in the first place? Fuck yes. We were completely entitled to it of course, and the only reason Michael collins and the like took the offer because they knew it'd be the best they'd get. It was the right thing to do. I don't like however, the civil war it caused and the pointless killings and divisions of families, not to mention the massive divide that exists in the North to this day because of it.
Right now of course, It's been nearly a hundred years, it's done and trying to change that is a really bad idea, all things considered. Yup.

 

[Wadders]

Thread belongs in Religion and Politics.

I don't have any strong opinions on it. Unpleasant experiences with a very left-wing pro-Irish independence girlfriend who turned out to be a complete idiot on several other levels kind of put me off the whole subject. I don't really care what happens over there but I do wish the people involved in the conflicts would just grow up and sort things out amicably one way or another.

Ever so sorry about the misplaced thread.

And I believe it is sorted out fairly amicably. People seem to have stopped killing each other in large numbers over the issue. However I still don't believe it's right.

As much as the chaps of the 1920s did their best to sort it out, the fact remains that no part of Ireland should really suffer British influence, as it simply should not be part of our commonwealth. We have no real right to the place.

Sure many people faithful to the Brits live there, but only 'cos we put them there in the first place, as far as I can see.

 

[Lonan]

I'm Irish, and I don't even want that!
Mainly because it's not really feasable. Make people who live in the north give up their homes, or their culture?

Thing is, Ireland is completely free from Brittish rule. The land we use is just a little smaller. I really don't see the big deal anymore...

Ya, what you say is true, I think this guy is just drunk.

 

[BonsaiK]

Thread belongs in Religion and Politics.

I don't have any strong opinions on it. Unpleasant experiences with a very left-wing pro-Irish independence girlfriend who turned out to be a complete idiot on several other levels kind of put me off the whole subject. I don't really care what happens over there but I do wish the people involved in the conflicts would just grow up and sort things out amicably one way or another.

Ever so sorry about the misplaced thread.

And I believe it is sorted out fairly amicably. People seem to have stopped killing each other in large numbers over the issue. However I still don't believe it's right.

As much as the chaps of the 1920s did their best to sort it out, the fact remains that no part of Ireland should really suffer British influence, as it simply should not be part of our commonwealth. We have no real right to the place.

Sure many people faithful to the Brits live there, but only 'cos we put them there in the first place, as far as I can see.

I live in Australia, which belonged to the Aborigines before white people invaded. Technically we don't have a right to the place either, we just came and said "we have guns and you don't so this is ours now". Things like this happen. Most countries have something like this in their history. Conflicts end not when everything is restored to how it was, but when people decide that they couldn't be bothered fighting or arguing about it anymore and decide to just work together to do the best with what they've got.