Enough with the constant praise of Half Life 2

[DioWallachia]

I am back after a rest and i see that you people STILL dont read anyone's comments so back to ANOTHER comment that wont be seen by anyone. Maybe i should spice it up to make it be less boring, so how about some music?

Cthulhu Saves The World OST - Conflict (Battle Theme)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG0rgvpYUtc

Rise of the Triad (ROTT) - Goin' down the Fast way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX_Kb0cDN98

Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver = Ozar Midrashim by Information Society
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2RMWWBXYbs

Iji - Tor - (Tors theme)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86IxmklUgEM

Battle Moon Wars BGM - Unlimited Blade Works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d66KCh1S5L8

Cave Story OST ~Moonsong~ Extended Version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVzC6WZImGY

Irisu Syndrome - Unknown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjmgxvVQlJQ

Eversion - You Can't Escape (World -8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O35Pt8hUpOU

Tyrian - Tyrian the song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVZ47z4F0G8

Deus Ex - UNATCO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBPK_oXeJgA

Thunder Force IV - Evil Destroyer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7qjICTsKho

Vinyl Goddess from Mars - Main Theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfj4hLYLVBM

Chakan : The Forever Man Soundtrack 01 Main Theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_T-s4h3LhU

Hexen II - Blackmarsh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESLhpWem0g

Mega Turrican - Stage 1-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdY4EKAcW4Q

Arcus Odyssey - Act 6-3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB_yLnRA98U

Michael Jackson's Moonwalker - Smooth Criminal [Genesis] Music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXw_txpn_aM

The Binding Of Isaac OST - Apostate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM4hSCbqjF8&feature=related

The Binding Of Isaac OST - Greed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTSESFNhVX8

Twin Peaks Intro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oDuGN6K3VQ

Chopin - Revolutionary Etude (Catherine)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAMSUmt_SFM

Good? ok back to the boringness.

So the real question you are asking is if Half Life 2 was an amazing and industry changing game why has no one listened?

Hmm well in my opinion it has actually had an effect. Look at Crysis and Crysis 2 for example both of them use the Half Life formula and method of storytelling and expand upon it and despite Crysis 2 meeting some criticism they were both received reasonably well.

Gamers have started to look at FPS games critically and say well it doesn't have to be this way Half Life 2 does it so much better. Yahtzee refers back to HL2 all the time when he criticises FPS games. That small example, in itself, shows that it had some influence on the way gamers judge their FPS games.

There has been an attempt to include better story-lines in shooters and a better understanding of 'show (through gameplay) don't tell' I know that the upcoming PlayStation 3 exclusive 'The Last of Us' considers it's story as central.

I don't think COD and BF3 can be included in this debate because they are, at their heart, multiplayer games. The story-lines are just excuses to ship another release with improvements they easily could have made in patches.

You might be enduring pointless comments because it's very unclear in many of your posts what you are trying to debate. I know I'm finding it quite difficult.

Last of us?? i think i know that name...

Anyway, Yathzee brain works properly and i wont doubt that he will INMEDIATELY bash a game for trying and failing at the Half Life formula or labeling a game with a "Like Half Life BUT ...." stamp in the same way as the God of War series. At lots of people say that games have done the HL formula since it came out and it fells dated now that EVERYONE is doing it, to the point that HL doesnt feel that special anymore.......but they dont mention what are the names of those games that did the HL thing.
You see, you mention Crysis 1 and 2 but i know at best that involves an alien invasion and a guy in a powered suit. I could mention Resistance 3 but leans more on the plot of HL2, the weapons and health system and nothing else. So we have Requiem: The Avenging Angel that was release 6 months after HL1 and has the same no-cutscene cutscenes thing that HL1 but you play as an Angel with lots of powers against the forces of hell that will make an Painkiller enthusiast cream his pants..........if only the game had more enemies and wasnt bugged up the ass then it would be remembered fondly.

But these are like, what, 5 games that BARELY scratch the surface of Half Life?? That feels like a total misreading of the results that HL2 gave to the gaming world after beating Doom 3 and Unreal Tournament 2004 in sales and critical acclaim, and Crysis 1 was released in 2007 (3 years after Half Life 2??).
So what was so important that they forgot about HL2?? Was it the rise of other multiplayer games?? they had to make more money than HL2 to even begin to compete and be the standard that all the producers force developers into.

Oh...now i remember about "The Last of Us" from Naughty Dog.
You said that it considers its story as central but that doesnt mean that its going to be narrated during gameplay. I have looked up and i saw that that Amy Henning isnt responsible for the writing of this game nor the design as she did when working on Legacy of Kain with Crystal Dinamics and Uncharted with Naughty Dog. I wont say that the stories made by her arent crusial but LoK was VERY cutscene heavy and UNSKIPABLE and i havent played Uncharted so let me see for a few minutes.......

Nope, after watching 40 minutes in Youtube it still seems that Amy hasnt changed his "film experience" idea of gaming, cant really blame her sinse she studied filmaking before going into games. But if what Yathzee said about the "Author commentary that explained that they think the spectacle set pieces first and the story later" is true, then Uncharted is more like a blockbuster game around spectacle rather than something more profound. The series follows the rule of Status Quo everytime that the adventure is over sort of like the James Bond and (who could have guesses?) Indiana Jones movies, where everything that happened in the previous film doesnt affect the new movie at all. But then again, Amy isnt going to be related to "The Last of Us" so maybe there is hope.

One more thing. What i said about not comparing HL2 with "modern games" is to not compare it with games that are shit like MW and Battlefield 3 because that will be too easy. Compare it with Bastion or others that are very good instead.

The game was judged by it's respective performance at the time and it was highly regarded. The same with the 1931 Dracula, the same with Citizen Kane, the same with Nosferatu, the same with Super Mario.

Things evolve. Classics aren't generally heralded as being "good forever". I love Bella Lugosi, but man Dracula was just paced really slowly. That's how movies were back then.
Citizen Kane was fun, but so much of the cinematographic techniques it either pilfered or invented are absolutely common place now-a-days.

When you are reviewing an old work honestly, you're job is not to remove your rose-tinted glasses but to put them on. Imagine how mind blowing Dracula was in 1931. Audiences just hadn't seen anything like it. Sound? Voices? and such violence!

You need to accept that Half Life 2 is not a modern game but it pioneered many, many of the techniques used heavily in modern games. The level design was, objectively, very good. I ask you to look at Doom and what you think of it's levels. They don't look like much today, but the design of the levels is very, very good. It helps, of course, that they were designed by John Romero; the most prolific map designer in gaming history.

My rambling argument culminates to this: In two years half life 2 will be ten years old. It's time to start playing it like you play and old game, and treat it like the relic it is. Think of the innovations it fostered, and the bold things it did at the time. This is the key to appreciating it, even if you don't like the game.

That is why people hold it in high regard.

........ You do know that Citizen "Best Movie of All Time" Kane flopped at the box office when it was released, right? So even in 1942 the people tough it was "Meh" and nothing revolutionary to the point of being "Best Movie of All Time". A shame actually since the Chiaroscuro and the cinematography is decent but, from a film producer point of view, this movie is complete fail and box office poison. NOTHING in this movie is valuable and even if it "seems" like there are good things (like a 1-up Mushroom) its all a trap and failure is inevitable if associate my movie with this one in any shape or form (like a Poison Mushroom). So technically you can see the inner workings of the producers and how this movie best virtues got lost during the times only to be captured by just a few that saw the potencial.

Half Life 1 and 2 in the other hand..........i cant explain why wouldn't they want to imitate or even follow the success of HL. I mean, everything is there to just copy pasta and did well critically and commercially. Hell, it even managed to beat Doom 3 in the same year, the game that made popular the FPS genre in the first place so why not??

In fact lets explain this in Yathzee Style.....

Gamers: "We want games to be more like Half Life 2, that treat us like adults and understand the importance of of narrating the story during gameplay and not cutscenes that break the flow"

A video game producer that i will name Pilloks: "Hey......hey Gonad!"

A video game producer that i will name Gonad: "What is it?"

Pilloks: "There are a bunch of people speaking an alien language outside the window, probably about games"

Gonad: "I think its English, Pilloks. And they refer to this Half Life 2 game and they want us to made more games like it"

Pilloks: "But we cant, we are just video games producers. Why would WE want to make our own series that follows the winning formula of a commercially succesfull and critically acclaimed game??"

Gonad: "You are right, Silicon Knights totally avoided making a sequel to Eternal Darkness so by this logic we must fear money and success. They surely must refer to another game so let me get close to the window to hear better....."

Gamers: "....And lets keep in mind that Alyx Vace is the best female ever right next to Samus Aran and Iji Kataiser and..."

Pilloks: "I think he mentioned 3 womans. I know!!!!! lets have a game where you have to choose to rescue 3 completely useless womans as a plot to achieve a threesome!!!"

Gamers: "Wait what??? nonononono, we want actual character and dept in our female protagonist instead of being just there for fanservice and..."

Gonad: "Did he said MORE FANSERVISE??? right on cue"

Gamers: "NOOOOOOOOOOO, GOD DAMMIT NO. WHY ARENT YOU LISTENING??? DONT COVER THE FAULTS OF THE GAME WITH FANSERVISE!!"

Pilloks: "Did he said cover?? I know!! lets make an entire game about being in cover in chest high walls, we will call it "Gears of War"

Gonad: "That is AWESOME, we are the best producers EVER"

And then all the gamers drop on the floor in fetal position and cry while laughing mad as they cant comprehend the stupidity that they witness.

By the way: Sandy Petersen, Shawn Green, John Carmack, Mike Abrash, Dave Taylor were behind the developement of Doom, not only John Romero who probably went out of his way to convince the world that he was awesome to make Doom himself and Daikatana. And that eventually bited him in the ass. Karma Made John Romero His *****.

So hey, all we need to do is find out what took the lead to the point of ignoring HL2 success and hope that it will explain why developers and producers have just now started to notice HL2.

So when i saw your comment on Halo the same idea come to me. The fanboys think that if they praise HL2 regardless of its flaws enough, they may get more games like it rather than games like Halo

it's funny, cause one of my arguments AGAINST HL2 is that other games did many of it's "innovations" way before it was released, Halo being a prime example.

Ok, what did Halo before HL2? Of course, we cant say that its the no-cutscene cutscene thing because that was Half Life 1 thing....and Requiem: The Avenging Angel for that matter.

How do we call this innovation again? Interactive Cutscene? hmm... Heavy Rain has "Interactive Cutscenes" with quotation marks because its more like a movie with quick time events.

Threads like this always reek of arrogance. Do you really think, OP, that anyone actually gives a shit if you like Half-Life 2 or not? You want us to tell you why it's so good? You want us to what, convince you to like it? Exactly why the hell should we?

You not liking the game is your loss but it's just arrogant of you to think that you not liking the game deserves it's own special thread.

Oh yeah, it's not like the point of these threads is to discuss things or anything crazy like that. So what, going on about how good a game is, is just fine but criticizing it is unacceptable?

Look through the previous pages. Plenty of people have discussed what they liked about the game and the praise it gets only for the OP to say they're wrong in some way or say that they're just being fanboys.

Then why did you open your discussion with "do you think that anyone actually gives a shit if you like half life 2 or not/" Don't give me that "well he's being a jerk about it" excuse now that you started with that.

I asked because I was wondering if the OP really thought that anyone cared that he doesn't like Half-Life 2. Fair enough, I probably could've worded my initial post a little less bluntly but I thought that the OP was acting arrogant and was genuinely trying to piss people off, so I didn't really bother with the civility.

Fair enough, I guess that makes sense. A bit of advice, on the internet people tend to go by first impressions, be sure to word your opening arguments better.

Mnn... arent we all are arrogant to the core??

"only for the OP to say they're wrong in some way or say that they're just being fanboys"

Oh really?? what post for example?? the one with @Mikeyfell??? I asked about the fanboy formula because he used the word himself. He said this (look it up):

"You can probably get the Orange Box for around $20. Worst case scenario for you: you spent your money to prove that fanboys are blinded by nostalgia"

And since when its considered wrong to say: "If X is true then why is Y happening, ignoring the results of X, instead of Z??" You made it look like i was saying that they are wrong all the time, like if i didnt praise:
@Gralian
@aftohsix
@Xanadu84
@wurrble182
@MichaelHirst
@AC10
@matrix3509
@ACman
@daveman247
@ZeroMachine
@kabooz18
@AncientSpark
@jpwoody (honorable mention)
@Krushna
@FieryTrainwreck (Not related to HL but still gets points for allowing me to make a point)
@Sandytimeman
@xXxJessicaxXx
@dagens24
@Thyunda (he bashed HL2 but still counts)
@Ragsnstitches
@dickywebster
@Blade1130
@NiPah
@AgenteL
@Shraggler (He is to be congratulated for actually detailing about the hype during its release and the fact that from a technical standpoint, HL2 is better than Doom 3 because it can run even on shitty computers. So we can add that to the list of thing that the developers did right, ACCESSIBILITY, because of an engine that looks good and doesn't consume a lot of computer power)
@Fluffles
@NewClassic
@The_Emperor
@remnant_phoenix
@poiumty
@CaptainOctopus
@Eventidal
@ResonanceGames

For actually be lvl headed people. Way to put words in my mouth, i know that every single person that posted about HL2 is going overboard but to include me in this?? If you are going to classify me as a villain then compare me to the SOPA supporters. You see, this censhorship thing is going around over the years but the SOPA its just topical., there were many more laws that "prevent" piracy. From accusing the video cassetes of "ruining the film industry" all the way back to 1643 where they accused the printing press of destroying literature. If this thing is bothering you then make the argument to end all arguments.

So, you know what? Fuck these threads, fuck your opinions, fuck the hype, fuck and fuck it I'm out.

You already know that now we are into debating what is the game industry smoking back in the 2004 that they didn't catch the neon sign that says "THIS IS HOW A GAME IS SUPPOSED TO WORK ITS NARRATIVE THROUGH" for HL2, right?

Oh, get the fuck over it. So you think Half Life 2 is overrated. That's hardly an unpopular opinion.

You know? I think that some1 here told me that i am some kind of Hipster that hates the popular opinion of the game being good. But if i were to hate popular opinions then shouldnt i be hating the haters too?? because technically hating HL2 is popular and therefore i must hate that opinion too and AAAAAAAAAAHHHHH MY HEAD HURT!!

This enough for you? Good. Now you can go back to ignoring absolutely everything I just wrote and throwing more temper tantrums at people who like different things.

I will actually be offended if you @poiumty of all people write something lazy as the rest that i didnt listed. You already know by my post about Legacy of Kain that i enjoy the series but there are thing that NEEDED to be solved or else people will fall into a quicksand of questions unresolved. So i CAN take the bullet on my favorite series

 

[Weaver]

Reported for flagrant trolling, spamming and thread necro. Not to mention seemingly just ignoring everything and bringing up the absolute most random points as counter-arguments I've ever seen.

It is against the rules of this board to encourace and facilitate a flamewar. This thread has clearly devolved into a vs. thread.

I suggest you all do the same.

 

[DioWallachia]

Reported for flagrant trolling, spamming and thread necro. Not to mention seemingly just ignoring everything and bringing up the absolute most random points as counter-arguments I've ever seen.

It is against the rules of this board to encourace and facilitate a flamewar. This thread has clearly devolved into a vs. thread.

I suggest you all do the same.

Ok, tell me where is the trolling?? i am asking honestly here because i only have listed like 4 games since HL2 was released and have followed it with varying results (Crysis 1 and 2, Resistance 3 and Bioshock) and i want to know why arent there more of it. And i already said in the 3rd wall that i played HL2 and i liked it but since the converzation evolved into asking why such thing has been ignored i ask you: How is that trolling?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Reported for flagrant trolling, spamming and thread necro. Not to mention seemingly just ignoring everything and bringing up the absolute most random points as counter-arguments I've ever seen.

It is against the rules of this board to encourace and facilitate a flamewar. This thread has clearly devolved into a vs. thread.

I suggest you all do the same.

Ok, tell me where is the trolling?? i am asking honestly here because i only have listed like 4 games since HL2 was released and have followed it with varying results (Crysis 1 and 2, Resistance 3 and Bioshock) and i want to know why arent there more of it. And i already said in the 3rd wall that i played HL2 and i liked it but since the converzation evolved into asking why such thing has been ignored i ask you: How is that trolling?

I think we can find the answer in the rise of shooters of varying kids like Gears of War, Rage and Dead Space and also the more nebulous games like Borderlands, Red Dead Redemption and Bulletstorm.

I think it's simply the case that FPS games have evolved into other forms and those of us who like some drama and storyline with our shooting shenanigans have moved on as have those people who want to enjoy a more pvp focused experience.

There are upcoming games that promise a more Half Life 2 based premise. Bioshock Infinite even has a 'hardcore mode' now and has already shown us that it plans to tell the story without removing the player from the 'head' of Booker DeWitt and, as I previously mentioned The Last of Us Creative Director Neil Druckmann says he hopes to 'raise the bar' when it comes to storytelling in videogames.

Half Life is as much a part of gaming history as Doom in that it looked at what ID was doing and took it further. Half Life 2 was a mutation and from it sprang an even greater diversity of mutations.

 

[Aprilgold]

No need for this topic really. No game developers (except Valve) are going back to the HL formula, so all is well.

Actually, Half Life 2 created the Cinematic Event [or revolutionized it] you know, like when in CoD your going across a battlefield and all of a sudden a event plays that you can move around in. It was revolutionary for its time, just like doom, and as such everybody copied games like Half Life 2, and thus, its not a special deal anymore. Classics can almost never hold up now in days, its not a modern game, its a classic revolutionary title.

I bet there are more threads with this same exact idea, "OMG, Y EVERY ONE LOWE HALF LIFE 2, NOT COD!?!?!?!?????!!???!!!!??!?!?!?!????!!?1??" Extreme amount of punctuation is not necessary, but seems to be what their message is.

 

[Jegsimmons]

hey, heres an idea.....JUST PLAY THE DAMN GAME!!! ITS ONLY 20 BUCKS USED!!!AND IF YOU DONT LIKE IT, RETURN IT FOR A REFUND!!!

 

[DioWallachia]

No need for this topic really. No game developers (except Valve) are going back to the HL formula, so all is well.

Actually, Half Life 2 created the Cinematic Event [or revolutionized it] you know, like when in CoD your going across a battlefield and all of a sudden a event plays that you can move around in. It was revolutionary for its time, just like doom, and as such everybody copied games like Half Life 2, and thus, its not a special deal anymore. Classics can almost never hold up now in days, its not a modern game, its a classic revolutionary title.

I bet there are more threads with this same exact idea, "OMG, Y EVERY ONE LOWE HALF LIFE 2, NOT COD!?!?!?!?????!!???!!!!??!?!?!?!????!!?1??" Extreme amount of punctuation is not necessary, but seems to be what their message is.

Now this is a sticky situation. First comes @Skin saying that no one but Valve is using the HL formula. Ok, it seems weird to me because since the beginning people had no problem copying the formula of Doom and now that HL2 won over Doom 3 they dont try to do the same with it.

Then @xXxJessicaxXx says that actually people moved on and wanted to try different things, and mentions Gears of War, Rage and Dead Space, Borderlands, Red Dead Redemption and Bulletstorm.
Ok, seems logical..... AT FIRST, because a few of these titles are recent and i am pretty sure that waiting from 2004 to 2011 for a game that is fun and immersive as HL2 its kinda bound to happen. What i mean is that the "Best Game Ever" has been declared on HL2 and no one tries to follow the new leader in FPS except maybe COD4 (maybe that is why people play it still? they got impressed by it nuke ending and the Cinematic Events that didnt call out the errors of the next games in fear that they may lose the closest thing possible to HL2??)
Then again, it could be that the developers DID make games like it but took so long and didnt managed to catch on the nostalgia because everyone moved on.........even if HL2 is very mod friendly and i am pretty sure that even up today there are still mods and fixes going around to remain relevant.

And THEN comes @Mimsofthedawg and he mentions Halo as the one laying the foundations for all the FPS to follow specially with its Cinematic Cutscenes since 2001. Its funny that he mentions Uncharted as one of the things that follows Halo since the writer of the Uncharted made games before Halo that were very Cinematic in nature (also know as Legacy of Kain). But that is not the point, the point is to know how powerful is Halo to make everyone dance around it, so lets see what it got......

Regenerating Health? Well that was made before Halo and if the game its too hard then why cant they just choose a lower difficulty??

Just 2 weapons slots that you have to change around?? That seems like a step backwards specially if it is supposed to be a Super Soldier with Powered Armor, seems logical that this justification would be enough to carry lots of weapons.

Cinematic Cutscenes?? Again, that was done before but i guess not for a FPS i suppose (Deus Ex had a Shot Reverse-Shot camera angles for conversations at best)

So technically we had 2 branches of narrating a story in a FPS:

"Cinematic Cutscenes" that look cool but take away immersion so that the developers can show us something in particular and...
"Cinematic Events" That never takes away the control of the players and everything is scripted around the levels to trigger under our presence to do the narrative for us.

It feels (for me) that using CE instead of CC in a FPS is munch more effective in the sense that if they went all they way to make the game to be in FIRST PERSON then you want the events to be SEEN in first person rather than going around shotting and then reaching a point where the control is taken away to make a CC.
And yet, Halo reigned over everyone else to even overshadow PC games like Unreal Tournament, Painkiller and Half Life 2. Lets not forget it came with the new console Xbox back then at it was kinda hard to choose within Xbox, Playstation 2 and Nintendo Game Cube. And with all that competition it managed to excel so much?

And THEN you come here an say that actually every single game up until now has been doing the HL2 thing all along and i didnt seem to notice. But if that is the case then why everyone keep saying that HL2 does it better?? Did the developers take just a small part of HL and made a game out of it and felt anemic?? Is really that hard to have lots of weapons and CE and a decent story??

You may say that having to compare HL2 with moderm games cannot be done because HL2 ISNT a modern game, but apparently (havent played recently) the FPS of today have lots their way in such a manner that HL2 look like gold. I can understand to cut some money on the production and make the minimum ammount of effort to ensure less cost but when you make a decision that makes your games look "outdated" compared to game that came 8 years ago, then they have to be very confident that this strategy has worked before or else they will get eaten by the competition. Then again, maybe they fear that if they go for ambitious proyects they may be hit hard just like John Romero's Daikatana

I guess that is all, i will have to ask @Shraggler about the rise of the multiplayers FPS after the fall of Unreal Tournament 2004. Maybe he knows more reasons of why Halo and COD took over since he was there back in 2004 around the hype of Doom 3 and Half Life 2

 

[Aprilgold]

snipped

I'm just going to reply to what I think that your communicating at me.

Look, the original will always be better then something that copies it. If you've played a Modern Warfare rip off within any number years since its release, you know what I'm saying.

Half Life 2 brought something revolutionary to the table, it didn't do much new, but it brought something and damn well refined it. I believe that it was cinematic events. Any event to where the player takes control of a character while X happens in Y place that is scripted, in essence its a cut scene where you can shoot dudes.

Games like Modern Warfare used it a lot, and its almost hard to play any FPS without seeing this in a set piece or another.

 

[Meshakhad_v1legacy]

Clearly an agent of the Combine.

 

[giggetygooo]

two things about that post...it should have been either shorter or better.