Epic President Dumps On Used Games, Piracy

[Mykin]

So let me get this straight Mr. Capps. Your punishing EVERYONE with a PC for the actions of a few people? It makes just as much sense as LucasArt's pathetic excuse for why the force unleashed wouldn't be on the PC, especially with what they did on the WII. When are theses people going to stop blaming piracy and actually do something about it?

 

[Angel Emfrbl]

The two major game sellers in the UK are GAME and Gamestation of which;

-GAME refuses to sell or buy back any PC game. No 2nd hand PC games there.
-Game Station WILL buy back old game and sell 2nd... But the exchange rate for serial coded games is just 0.01p normally. Ouch!

Edit:

The likely reason for not selling;

-The price a company has to pay for testing a PC game and patching it.

To produce a good quality PC game, there will always be a higher production cost.

 

[szaleniec1000]

As NZ has a "no return" policy on digital media each game would have been $$100 wasted.

On this subject, it might be worth checking the law to see whether such policies are actually legal. They exist to some extent in the UK but (IANAL) probably wouldn't survive a challenge under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 if a customer decided to make an issue of it, which is likely only a matter of time - if NZ has a similar law (which I'm led to believe it does, but know little of the specifics) the policy might be equally untenable there.

 

[TheEggplant]

WOW Andraste I am appalled by your lack of foresight. I don't recall hearing anywhere that game design was the road to easy street. If a customer buys a game used and is treated poorly or has a poor experience with the product itself they aren't going to be a customer in the future. This applies to to just about everything though. Prime example is this Samsung DVD burner I just bought last week, not used but the same concept. It won't recognize any discs except my factory pressed game discs. It won't read my personal burned data discs, my movies or my blank discs. Customer service is a joke is this case so, guess which brand of anything I won't ever be buying again.
As I stated in my last post I believe Gamestop to be the absolute lowest when I comes to shopping for games. Pubs and Devs hate them with good reason but punishing the users for something done by a corporation is asinine. Maybe they should start more exclusives with retailers that treat them better like the Fallout 3: Amazon.com Exclusive Survival Edition. Better yet stop giving Gamestop exclusives period.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

IANAL? Sounds to me like you're just pulling names out of your ass...

Cheap jokes aside, I do find it strange that people will happily buy a 2nd hand game in the UK for £45 when the new ones are £50, I'll personally pay that £5 to know I'm getting a copy in mint condition without peanut butter and scratches all over the disc and rude words scribbled in the manual. I exaggerate, sure, but you can see my point.

I have no problem with the second hand market, but when they're offering like £10-15 for a new game and putting a sticker on and it's 45, I just think there's room to move, and I'd buy new.

As for other markets not doing the same stuff, I believe there's similar things in the small print of DVDs, CDs, etc, its just that they're not threatening to push em into reality like the games companies seem to be doing.

I for one could live without console ports, I'll take the PC games, and I'll play the console games at a friend's house. EA don't lose any money because we're all pirating shoddy ports, we're not all bitching at EA for making shoddy ports, and the PC exclusives should sell fairly well, because they won't be shoddy ports.

Hell, I've done Car boot sales in my time, getting rid of old videos, cds, etc, and I've had people STEAL from my table... I'm selling old videos for like 50 pence, and people still feel the need to steal them, you'll never stamp out theft or piracy, but I didnt just shut up and go home and never come back, I took the things I lost as 'acceptable losses' as I live in a world with chavs, and got back there next week, making some money and losing a little of it.

 

[Andraste]

WOW Andraste I am appalled by your lack of foresight. I don't recall hearing anywhere that game design was the road to easy street. If a customer buys a game used and is treated poorly or has a poor experience with the product itself they aren't going to be a customer in the future.

What lack of foresight? I have stated the situation about as plainly as it can be. And I have zero idea where your statement about game design being a road to easy street came from - I never said anything to that effect.

As for the statement about the customer, they never were a customer of the developer ... what's the developer losing? The used game buyer has proven already a pattern for buying used games, and therefore not giving any money to the devs. A developer would not just have to win a new customer, they'd have to be trying to win one who's essentially not interested in paying for their games. Trying to work with that person, a used game buyer, is in that sense, a very bad business decision. That's foresight.

 

[TheEggplant]

I guess the only response is that I completely disagree. The idea that only new products should sell and used products should never be available sounds to me like companies trying to change the market to suit themselves rather than changing with the market. This speaks of someone who doesn't want to put in the effort of selling their products. Your statements in your previous posts speaks to your agreement of that idea.
To the second point, people are fickle. Especially when it comes to entertainment. Someone who picks up an older product well after its release and enjoys both the product and the experience are more likely to buy the next product. That could be a sequel or just the new project from the same creators. I can't quote research based on trends, but I can talk about my own experiences. I didn't have a lot of disposable income in the '90s. If I hadn't been able to pick up Fallout 1,2, and Tactics second-hand, when I could afford them I would never have pre-ordered the expensive Amazon exclusive of Fallout 3. Another example is again from the film industry. We never had a UPN affiliate in this area. Because of this I was not able to see Buffy the Vampire Slayer when it aired. I only saw it much later in syndication. Because I liked what I saw and because 20th Century Fox actively engaged the user by asking upfront what sort of DVD release were most desirable I pre-ordered every season on disc. Granted this isn't a perfect analogy because the studio still gets money from the syndication deals, but the idea is that the show was out there for more people than the initial audience. That is true foresight. Building a customer base, whether it comes from people who were on board from the beginning or ones who came on later. Attempting to make people forget what has come before and only focus on what is happening right now is short-sighted and will never payoff. The fact that EA, ActiBlizzsion, and now apparently Epic are following this route does not bode well for their futures.

 

[Royas]

What a crybaby, I swear. Has management in game development been taken over by a kindergarten of particularly whiny brats? Every day, it's another dev whining about "piracy" and "used games". What the hell makes this guy think his product is any different than every other product out there? Yeh, bytes don't wear out, but the CD's and DVD's sure as hell do, just like any physical product out there. You buy a used game, the disc is probably a bit scratched, maybe smudged... it's sure not pristine like a brand new one. And don't get me started on the piracy drum. What he's really saying is "Gears of War 2 won't come to PC because we make a lot more money on the consoles, and we really can't be bothered to support the gaming medium that made us big."

 

[Pigeon_Grenade]

about all i have to say about this is 'Jesus tap dancing Christ'... so the grounding to his statement is he wants more of our money
and is trying to take lengths to cut out other company's ways of making money..

 

[bkd69]

Point the first. The used market shows that there are people willing to buy their games at a certain retail price point. If he really, really wants to convert those sales to first hand sales, then he should have no qualms at all about lowering the retail price point to match the used price point, hmm? In fact, I think he's going to be quite surprised to learn how few people consider his game to be worth $60 in perpetuity.

Point the second. No used PC games available from Gamestop.

Point the third. I would be more impressed with his claims of theft and loss from piracy, if he actually tried to claim his Imaginary Pirate Revenue as a business loss on his taxes, or filed a theft claim with his insurance company.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

"Epic President Takes A Dump On His Consumers Faces" would be a more fitting title.

 

[Typecast]

Unless someone hasn't said this before: Maybe PC's are better off without GoW2?

 

[destroyer2k]

Guys wait by the end of this month and we will see how pc gaming is doing. When valve will release left 4 dead we will see how pc gaming alive and kicking. I bet that pc version will sell better then xbox 360 and even it is not a sequel.

 

[ksn0va]

The major point here is greed. No matter how little the losses from piracy, they're just too greedy to let it go. Most of the people who pirate either: a). don't have the money b). the game is banned in their country c). nobody sells original games in the city where they live and d).NO CASH! (games are just too expensive outside the U.S.)

I buy games but they take away almost a month of our food supply or a quarter of school fees.

 

[Jimmyjames]

Pirates are generally hoarders. They need more and more, so they collect more and more. I have a friend that is really into copying DVDs. He's got around FIVE FREAKING THOUSAND. How will ANYONE ever, EVER watch 5000 movies?!? Game pirates are they same... they copy anything and everything, and pass it around.

I'll bet every single person here that copies music has an antire iPod full of songs. You ever listen to all that?

It a general attitude... "I WANT MORE". And it sucks

 

[Cyclomega]

Let me rephrase the article :

Capps : 'BAAAAAAWWWWWWWW ! Why aren't PC gamer retarded tools with too much money on their hands !? Don't mention that I forget used games are also a big market on consoles, but basically I'd like to have money for breakfast, and I can't understand games are way too fucking expensive and require a PC from tomorrow to run, and that our piracy paranoia encourages even more piracy.
In other words, I am a huge moron and I suck giant donkey choad.
BAAAAAWWWWWWWW !'

 

[gains]

The music industry IS trying to kill re-selling music. It's one of those subjects they quietly raise every time they go lobbying to restrict online usage. (They also wanted iTunes store to lock up your music so that if you wanted to play a song on your compy and your iPod, you'd have to buy it twice. That died pretty fast.)

Anyway, DVD distrubutors also would like to end re-sells. They wanted to prevent rental stores from selling their pre-viewed copies, expecting that the chain stores would be easier to hold back but again, the plans withered away pretty quick when the stores threatened to bite back by not carrying some films.

None of these distributors are happy with the practice but it became such a market presence that it would ruin them in the consumer's eye to make it a front page issue. They have slowly learned that with digital distribution, there is no re-sell opportunity and games will follow suit in time.

When you buy IP, you're paying for a lifetime lease as far as publishers and distributors are concerned. There is a copyright on the design of a car, but not on the physical object. A game or CD is only a medium and while you can sell back the disc, they don't want you to be able to sell back the data on it.

 

[Baby Tea]

Try and justify piracy all you want, because you're lying to yourself.

'It's a sub par product! I don't want to pay full price for that!' - Then wait for the inevitable price drop. Otherwise I guess you really DID want that game! Pay for the damn thing.

'I don't agree with their DRM/copy protection software!' - Well if people weren't pirating in the first place, they wouldn't be there. Besides that, since they ARE there, then don't get the bloody game. That's how they're releasing it, and if it pisses you off then don't get the game. There are plenty of other great games out there without the DRM and secuROM shit. Play those.

Then what do you propose? If there is something wrong with the product that you can't financially support it in good conscience, do you just deprive yourself of what is otherwise a good game experience? I bought Mass Effect, and got burned by its draconian DRM measures. I actually feel like I did an immoral thing by buying it. Do you think that it would be better to just never play a good game such as this?

I am in that "rare minority" that you speak of. I have spent thousands on games that I've never even opened, and many of them I pirated before I actually purchased. It's all a matter of control as to why I pirate. Take the recent example of Too Human. If I believed all the hype on that game, I would have spent $60 on it, and I finished it in 6 1/2 hours. NOT a good purchase. Game companies are around because they want to make money, and that is first and foremost on their mind. They don't care if their game is crap, only that you buy it. They will even flat-out LIE to you in order to get you to give them YOUR money. That is FAR worse than being a pirate, because stealing from your customers is the fast way to go out of business.

For the Mass Effect issue: That sucks, but I still say piracy isn't justified. If you don't like the way they are distributing it, no one is forcing you to get the game. That's like me saying 'Well I really want God of War, but I don't have a PS2...so I'm going to go get an emulator and the ISOs for the game and play that way.' It's not 'convenient' or it's 'annoying' or what YOU might call 'immoral' so go ahead and steal it? That's bullshit.

And for the Too Human issue: That's what reviews are for! And besides, I got two words: Buyer beware. You say that game developers flat out lie when it comes to their games. Yeah, well, welcome to the entire world of advertising. I see movie trailers for shitty movies that say they are a 'thrill ride' or a 'enormous comedy' and they aren't. They are crappy movies. Same goes with games. Don't like it? Don't take their word for it. That's what reviews are for. And if you don't agree with reviewers, then find a friend who has it, or something. Just because you don't enjoy the experience and think you should pay full price, doesn't give you the 'right' to pirate the game. That's also bullshit.

 

[Cyclomega]

But game reviewers lie too, remember the Gerstmann case ?

Although Gertsmann was mainly a whiny *****, he shouldn't have been sacked for the sake of Eidos's fat stacks of promotion cash, he was still right that Kane & Lynch is an average game...

Game reviews, user reviews and metacritic are in most cases not a good measure of quality anymore... sadly.

 

[Signa]

Try and justify piracy all you want, because you're lying to yourself.

'It's a sub par product! I don't want to pay full price for that!' - Then wait for the inevitable price drop. Otherwise I guess you really DID want that game! Pay for the damn thing.

'I don't agree with their DRM/copy protection software!' - Well if people weren't pirating in the first place, they wouldn't be there. Besides that, since they ARE there, then don't get the bloody game. That's how they're releasing it, and if it pisses you off then don't get the game. There are plenty of other great games out there without the DRM and secuROM shit. Play those.

Then what do you propose? If there is something wrong with the product that you can't financially support it in good conscience, do you just deprive yourself of what is otherwise a good game experience? I bought Mass Effect, and got burned by its draconian DRM measures. I actually feel like I did an immoral thing by buying it. Do you think that it would be better to just never play a good game such as this?

I am in that "rare minority" that you speak of. I have spent thousands on games that I've never even opened, and many of them I pirated before I actually purchased. It's all a matter of control as to why I pirate. Take the recent example of Too Human. If I believed all the hype on that game, I would have spent $60 on it, and I finished it in 6 1/2 hours. NOT a good purchase. Game companies are around because they want to make money, and that is first and foremost on their mind. They don't care if their game is crap, only that you buy it. They will even flat-out LIE to you in order to get you to give them YOUR money. That is FAR worse than being a pirate, because stealing from your customers is the fast way to go out of business.

For the Mass Effect issue: That sucks, but I still say piracy isn't justified. If you don't like the way they are distributing it, no one is forcing you to get the game. That's like me saying 'Well I really want God of War, but I don't have a PS2...so I'm going to go get an emulator and the ISOs for the game and play that way.' It's not 'convenient' or it's 'annoying' or what YOU might call 'immoral' so go ahead and steal it? That's bullshit.

And for the Too Human issue: That's what reviews are for! And besides, I got two words: Buyer beware. You say that game developers flat out lie when it comes to their games. Yeah, well, welcome to the entire world of advertising. I see movie trailers for shitty movies that say they are a 'thrill ride' or a 'enormous comedy' and they aren't. They are crappy movies. Same goes with games. Don't like it? Don't take their word for it. That's what reviews are for. And if you don't agree with reviewers, then find a friend who has it, or something. Just because you don't enjoy the experience and think you should pay full price, doesn't give you the 'right' to pirate the game. That's also bullshit.

So you are 1000% ok with people who are richer than you are trying to take your money? How is THAT not bullshit in itself? You are right that no one is forcing anyone to play a game, but what about peer pressure? All the time, my friends and co-workers are talking about the newest game that came out, and their experiences and adventures in the game. Fallout 3 is a recent example. Now, I have neither played, purchased, or even pirated fallout 3 because I'm not too concerned with it right now. However, if they were all discussing Mass Effect, I'd be interested in joining their conversation. If I followed your suggestion that I don't have to play games, I would not only be depriving myself of playing a good game, but also social interaction. All for what? giving an invisible middle finger to EA. Good idea.

Face it, I would be stupid to NOT pirate a game like that. EA will be a lot more likely to see pirated figures than figures of who didn't buy a game. Also, I would get to play a masterpiece of a game, and I also would get to join in on any inside jokes, memes, and stories of adventures my friends had.

Like I said before, it's about control. These companies think they are in control, but they all have forgotten that consumers like you and me are the ones that are really in control. They should feel lucky to have a customer like me. I'm buying their shit even though I can (and some times did) get it for free. When they do a good job making something, they get rewarded, when they churn out a pile of crap in 15 mins, they aren't going to see any praise from me.

Disclaimer: Much of my anger is more of directed at the music and movie industries. EA's recent actions has lumped their part of the gaming industry into the same category for me. I think that, generally speaking, the game industry is not scum. That is why I still buy their games. Topics like this one always make me furious though, because I won't be playing a PC game because some one is crying about what is IMO a moot point. Pirates are never customers, and the real customers, like me, are getting shafted because some one is crying over spilled water...and greed