Escape to the Movies: Red State

[The Random One]

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I don't get it. Are you saying Bob actually thinks the movie is good and made a negative review just to incence us (which doesn't seem likely, since people defending the movie seem to be slightly outnumbered in the comments, even if you don't count the Thomas the Transformer videos) or that Kevin Smith deliberately made a bad movie with a viewpoint diehard liberals would agree it with the precise intent of challenging preconceptions?

Or are you just trolling?

OT: I thought the point of Red State was that even though the country is run by colossal assholes, we shouldn't have qualms about them busting into a religious nut's compound and just wiping that blemish from our social order. Can't say I disagree.

So you're saying that it's OK for evil politicians to take away the rights of people, as long as you don't personally agree with them?

Can't say I agree.

 

[Blindswordmaster]

Were a lot of you guys going to see Red State until Movie Bob said it sucked? Really? If you want to see it, just go fucking see it. I saw Don't be Afraid of the Dark, and it sucked, but I didn't regret seeing it. Listen, Bob's reviews are just his opinion. I've agreed and disagreed with his opinions. He said it sucked. Fine. I'm still going to see it. Maybe I'm just colored because I've heard of Red State from Kevin Smith's side, as I love listening to all his podcasts. Still, I take Bob's opinion under advisement, but I'm still going to see it.

 

[AkaDad]

Hmmm, well I've been reading very mixed things about this movie. I can't say that Kevin Smith has really failed because a lot of people seem to like it for some reason. Personally I'm probably not going to see it to be honest.

I think the lack of a clear "message" is supposed to kind of be the point. As I understand things Kevin Smith is trying to comment on perceptions, and the way the media sways them to an extent. I think the whole thing where the movie is shot in a way that it seems like your supposd to be cheering for the evil scumbag cultists, but you really can't do it, is kind of the point. To put it in the context of Waco, people will sit there and criticize the FBI for the "botched" handling of the case, but really you can't sit there and say that they should have just walked away and let David Koresh do whatever the heck he wanted to do. In a "big picture" kind of way you have to weigh the pros and cons, of certain things, killing children is never good, but when an organization like the "Branch Davidians", or the group from "Red State" has an influance outside of what they do internally (enough to get attention) the risk of losing those children becomes the lesser evil. Shadowy orders aside, is it really better to just have the FBI walk away and let them do whatever they want to do? Not to mention the message is sends that all a whack job needs to do is keep some kids in their compound and nobody will bug them.


The inflammatory title aside, I think a big part of the issue is that a lot of people were expecting a very clear cut "conservatives are bad, liberals are good" message, and really that isn't what this movie is trying to say, it's not based around a single clear message or idealogy and is criticizing groups like the Westboro church, but also the left wing media (indirectly) and pressures, and sort of supporting a fairly right wing take on hardcore law enforcement when needed.

Of course this is all based on what I've heard, I admit I have not seen the movie, but this is what I have been able to piece together.

Honestly, I'm hardly the liberal Kevin Smith seems to be in most of his work, but it would be nice if he went back towards his older style.

I think liberals should get some conservative friends that way we can have real discussions about issues and get past the propaganda.

While your suggestion is admirable, I'd like to explain why it's practically impossible.

After 9/11, Liberals, who were opposed to invading and occupying Iraq, were told that if we didn't support Bush, we were Saddam's best friend. We were called anti-American. We were told that we were aiding and abetting the terrorists.

I will never, ever forget that, and to top it off, we were right that Saddam didn't have anything to with 9/11, that he wasn't a threat to America, and he didn't have WMD's. Iraq will go down as one of the worst military operations in our history.

I haven't seen anyone on the conservative side apologize for the disgusting rhetoric and the way we were treated.

I can't speak for all Liberals, but I know a lot of them that feel the same way.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Doesn't sound good. If I was him I'd quit cannabis for good. Because he's been getting worse, he's definitely losing grip on that i-don't-know-what that keeps us glued to planet earth, mentally.

Then again, I don't know how much he is smoking now, nor exactly how much he used to smoke at the height of his career. I just don't want to wait for the 20-year studies on the mental effects of cannabis, like my grandfather's generation waited for confirmation of the "proven link" between smoking and cancer. It was too late for him.

Weed should be a rare treat, NOT something that should be consumed in any way habitually. Not even monthly. I'm talking birthdays or distant reunions.

He never smoked weed before Zack and Miri "bombed" at the box office and sent him into a depression (yet it grossed more money than any of his other movies). He's been preaching about pot like it's a miracle lifestyle choice ever since, saying he gets stoned multiple times a day. On Mohr Stories many episodes back, Jay Mohr and his manager were trying to figure out just what the hell happened to once great black comics like Martin Lawrence and Dave Chappelle. The manager said he didn't think it was money or fame or bad luck. It just boiled down to the long term effects of drugs, altering brain chemistry and creating/exacerbating psychological problems like depression and bipolar disorder when they weren't present before.

It's a little troubling for a long time fan, even though he really hasn't had any apparent problems yet. But the stuff he says like "Worry is just paying interest on a loan that never comes due" and the general attitude of "it doesn't matter if you think my movies suck because I'm going to retire soon anyways" don't exactly paint the picture of a guy who values himself very much. I'm probably just projecting because I myself am a self hating loser, but still. The man is talented and he puts himself down constantly, almost to silence someone else who isn't there. The guy used to defend himself, justify his opinions, and school people with his quick wit. Like I said though, he's still really funny even (and especially when) stoned. I guess I'll enjoy it while it lasts, but it's getting old.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Snip

...

I just...

WHAT?

Ok, making a morally gray situation with things that the police and cops that isn't legal to very bad people can create moral problems that force the audience to question their views on right or wrong (some of the better Law and Order episodes do this beautifully) but by the sound of it, it just makes things confusing.

Kevin Smith, I just don't get it.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

I think Kevin got infected with that weird Hollywood virus called "MOOLAH".

Once you get it, you start doing crazy things; Like green lighting the next "Movie" movie.

Nope, not a chance.

Kevin Smith is one of the most under paid directors out there.

OT: I'd like everyone to realize that this movie has been getting mixed reviews everywhere across the board.

Also, I've been listening to the Jay and Silent Bob podcast for the last few months. He explained that he was tired of not taking any chances with his movies so he did Red State.

I've heard just as many good things about this movie as I have bad things.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Was this actually shown to critics? Because i know Kevin Smith really doesnt like doing that.
Mainly because all of his movies suck now and he hates them getting bad review scores.

He's said he doesn't want to show it too them because they most likely don't want to see it, or at least they don't want to see it for the right reasons.

It made sense. He's completely stopped caring about what his non-fans don't like. Good or bad, we won't ever know.

I am a Kev Smith fan. I think it's pretty good. He's started showing some renewed promise over the years.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Why do Americans make conservative states red, and liberal ones blue?

It seems to fit, and it sort of goes along with the colors of our flag.

Have you ever thought of a different color to represent Republicans and Democrats?

 

[Swifteye]

Perhaps Kevin Smith is experiencing the same problem John Hughes had entering the 90s.

 

[ImSkeletor]

While your suggestion is admirable, I'd like to explain why it's practically impossible.

After 9/11, Liberals, who were opposed to invading and occupying Iraq, were told that if we didn't support Bush, we were Saddam's best friend. We were called anti-American. We were told that we were aiding and abetting the terrorists.

I will never, ever forget that, and to top it off, we were right that Saddam didn't have anything to with 9/11, that he wasn't a threat to America, and he didn't have WMD's. Iraq will go down as one of the worst military operations in our history.

I haven't seen anyone on the conservative side apologize for the disgusting rhetoric and the way we were treated.

I can't speak for all Liberals, but I know a lot of them that feel the same way.

And the Conservitive side is called blood thirsty monsters. Both sides do it man so liberals aren't owed an apology.

OT: A good review once again.

 

[Fearzone]

Maybe next time a film that one of us here is in danger of watching. I liked the movie poster though.

 

[Jailbird408]

I know I'm a bit late on this but...
He can't seriously be looking forward to the Muppets movie, right? It's going to be a shitty cash-in movie like the Smurfs is going to be, and just because they're the Muppets doesn't mean it's going to be good.
Please drag your hopes down, Moviebob, or you're going to be wounded terribly.

On topic, this movie sucks, good review, keep it up.

 

[Redd the Sock]

I'll admit, I never got the appeal to Kevin Smith. Stripped of dirty jokes they're rather unremarkable, and today, we can get jokes about blow jobs and anal sex in a lot more places than his films. I know he has better writing talent when reading comics he wrote (anyone that can make Mysterio into a compelling villan deserves some cred) but it never seems to make it into the movies.

After Zack and Miri, I couldn't even give Cop out a loyalty viewing, and this sounds like it won't get one either.

 

[WWmelb]

did read all posts. Clearly Thomas "Transformer" is Voltron rip off.. not transformers. Someone may have pointed this out already.

 

[AkaDad]

While your suggestion is admirable, I'd like to explain why it's practically impossible.

After 9/11, Liberals, who were opposed to invading and occupying Iraq, were told that if we didn't support Bush, we were Saddam's best friend. We were called anti-American. We were told that we were aiding and abetting the terrorists.

I will never, ever forget that, and to top it off, we were right that Saddam didn't have anything to with 9/11, that he wasn't a threat to America, and he didn't have WMD's. Iraq will go down as one of the worst military operations in our history.

I haven't seen anyone on the conservative side apologize for the disgusting rhetoric and the way we were treated.

I can't speak for all Liberals, but I know a lot of them that feel the same way.

And the Conservitive side is called blood thirsty monsters. Both sides do it man so liberals aren't owed an apology.

OT: A good review once again.

There's a major difference between calling somebody a blood thirsty monster for waging war and accusing someone of being a traitor to the country for opposing a war.

 

[RTR]

I just checked how the movie ends over on Wikipedia. It's more stupid than I thought.

 

[Falseprophet]

Why do Americans make conservative states red, and liberal ones blue?

Technically, the American news media use Red and Blue refer to states won by Republicans and Democrats respectively in the Electoral College vote [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)] for president. Before the 2000 election the colours were not actually set and could vary every election (historically, the Democrats were often Red). But because of the controversy over the 2000 election, the Red = Republican/Blue = Democrat divide was fixed in the popular consciousness, and propagated by the media.

 

[Falseprophet]

{sigh} Double-post.

 

[RJ Dalton]

Hey, thanks for pointing me in the direction of Birdemic. That movie's totally awesome.
Not awesome enough to actually buy on DVD, but awesome enough to make it worth looking up clips on youtube.

 

[Mangue Surfer]

Why do Americans make conservative states red, and liberal ones blue?

It seems to fit, and it sort of goes along with the colors of our flag.

Have you ever thought of a different color to represent Republicans and Democrats?

It's strange because in the rest of the world red is the color of the comunism.