I find it hard to understand how being happy about a man like him getting killed is a bad thing. I mean sure, there's the whole fiasco of what the war in Iraq turned into, but when a man responsible for the deaths of thousands is killed, I really don't see the down side to being happy.BrotherRool said:
Escape to the Movies: Zero Dark Thirty
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So...wait, because we got happy when a mass murderer was killed...that's justification for other people to hate our country...I'm so confused, could you please explain? I think I'm missing something.Anoni Mus said:
You don't get it do you? The people who celebrated in front of the White House were for the most part college students. Which means people who were 10-12 when 9/11 happened. Thus it defined a huge portion of their lives; so you can damn well bet they were glad when we got the man fundamentally responsible.Anoni Mus said:
Also drop the judgmental pretentiousness. Why is celebrating an "uncivilized" behavior?
You're not alone. Railing against the US seems to be a pastime for a lot of people.erttheking said:
And your failure to understand is why we find it creepy. Relief, the knowledge of a duty done. Hope for improvement. Jubiliation? Street celebrations? It#s creepy and thats what we felt and thats what our news reports showed.erttheking said:
Particularly all the people who talk of America as some Christian ideal. Forgive someone 77 times unless you really don't like him. All of us are sinners but some of us deserve to die for it. Jesus died for our sins and Bin Laden died for his.
You know that plenty of people besides Christains live in this country, and lot of those Christains that do are far from perfect. But then again I kinda detach myself from the modern media and going on in my country. I was told he was dead, I was happy, I wrote "we got him" in a fan fiction I was writing at the time, and that was it, so maybe I'm missing something.BrotherRool said:
I have to admit I never took to the streets myself, (in fact apart from writing "we got him" in a fan fiction I was writing at the time, I didn't really do anything) but I have to disagree. There are some people in this world that are so terrible, that I really can't blame people for being happy. Also was it really a mess? The riots in Boston when the Red Soxs won in 2004, THAT was a mess, this really doesn't feel that bad.Anoni Mus said:
The rest of the world jsut didn't share the US focus on Bin Laden personified, he was an important terrorist and his death wasn't the end of the war or anything.erttheking said:
Still if people had been as reserved as you we wouldn't have reported on your country. We'd've reported the death and left it at that. But even Bob said most of the world would be defined by two moments, where you were on 9/11 and where you were when Bin Laden died. But he's wrong, we care about the first but we don't give a toss about the second and we're confused why people would even think that. Heck I can't even remember the date that we're supposed to be remembering, never mind what I was doing. I couldn't even give you an estimate in months.
I guess the prolonged escape of Bin Laden was just seen as a failure on the part of the US to do something they wanted to do. Bin Laden hide and seek champion 2001-2011. To us 9/11 was a significant event in world history, but after that Bin Laden just becomes some guy in a wider conflict that has spawned several more conflicts. A joke and thats about it. So the idea that we'd remember where we were when we heard he died?
But anyway, the link I showed was people having parties in Times Square and calling it the "happiest day of their lives" thats why we reported it as being creepy.
And the christian thing was an aside jab, because their are plenty of Americans who believe the US is the shining example to the world, but they also do this, when we'd never think of celebrating someones death in Britain. Even a "Hitler is dead" day would be weird. "The war is over" is more interesting. Some people in your country are so hypocritical. Their are people who are simultaneously pro-life and pro-death penalty. Just the idea of that boggles my brain
Yeah I know that, I'm not expecting the rest of the world to get as excited as some people in this country is.BrotherRool said:
I myself can't remember the day when I was told that he was dead, although I can remember that I was upstairs in my house, then again I'm always in my house so that's not saying a whole lot. Here's the thing, you don't care about Bin Laden to the same extent that a lot of Americans do, that's perfectly understandable, you've got your own problems to worry about in your own country, but 9/11 was something that had never happened in America before, and a lot of people view Bin Laden as one of the worst things that ever happened to this country. Like you said, he managed to stay off of the radar for ten years, so it was extremely frustrating that he got away with what he did for so long, that's why people were happy when he was dead.
Pretty sure that was hyperbole said on the spur of the moment. Pretty sure people say the same thing when they go on their first successful date, when they get married, when their kid is born etc etc: it doesn't really mean that much.
Pretty sure that there are people everywhere that think that their country is the best in the world, that's a global thing. Well, we are two different cultures with two different standards, we're not the same and I'm kind of glad we're not, I like there being diversity in the world. Also I think you're overblowing it a little, there's no "Bin Laden is dead" day, and it's not like we danced around his decapitated head stuck on a pike.
Yeah well there's a difference between the two. Pro-life people think that that it's wrong to kill unborn babies, pro-death penalty people think that it's ok to kill murders and rapists because they deserve it. There's a big difference. Really Pro-life is a little bit of a misleading term, it's pro-life in that particular location. Just playing Devil's advocate.
(By the way, thank you for being so polite. It's a common courtesy that really should be a little more common.)
This. This here is what we're making fun of. Successful first date, marriage, kid being born, terrorist being shot. One of these things is not like the other.erttheking said:
The USA is much much more like that than a lot of countries. In Great Britain it's more traditional to moan. And you didn't dance around his head on a pike because his body was sunk, so instead you burnt effigies of his faceerttheking said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW5gNY1HTcs
or dragged his effigy around in a coffin with a motorcycle around the back
http://www.fitsnews.com/tag/bin-laden-effigy/
I really don't see much difference
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,2068860_2271150,00.html
This is one of the newspaper articles at the time that can say it better than I can
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/07/democrats-parade-osama-bin-laden-corpse
I am sorry you got dragged into this and people got heated at you. The truth is Britain found the USA's reaction to the death sickening and repulsive for a lot of people and Bob and a lot of Americans aren't aware of how their actions were seen in other countries (lol). We don't remember the day he died, but I do have memories of news reports with Americans chanting USA USA USA at the news
Well, this is pretty depressing. Just remember that vocal minorities don't define the thinkings of over three hundred million people. Thank you and have a merry Christmas.BrotherRool said:
Kind of disappointed here. This movie's definitely "fixated" on something, but it's not the "facts." You're usually so good at bringing a reasonable voice to controversial subjects, but maybe it only works when the tempest in question is actually confined to a teapot. The backhanded brush-off of arguably the most important controversy you've come up against on this site was more than a little sad.
I suppose I understand not wanting to embroil yourself and your film review show in politics, but I think you can avoid politicizing things while still acknowledging facts [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/30/osama-bin-laden-raid-torture_n_1465820.html] (and pointing out when they're being actively misrepresented).
One final point: I fail to see how killing of a sad, old psychopath, no matter how deserving, while he continues to dictate a big part of U.S. foreign policy from beyond the grave, can be characterized as a "Happy Ending."
PS: I really do like your show, I swear.
I suppose I understand not wanting to embroil yourself and your film review show in politics, but I think you can avoid politicizing things while still acknowledging facts [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/30/osama-bin-laden-raid-torture_n_1465820.html] (and pointing out when they're being actively misrepresented).
One final point: I fail to see how killing of a sad, old psychopath, no matter how deserving, while he continues to dictate a big part of U.S. foreign policy from beyond the grave, can be characterized as a "Happy Ending."
PS: I really do like your show, I swear.
I finally got a chance to watch the movie. I totally disagree with Moviebob about Maya. Her character was pretty bland and uninteresting. What bob describes as tough comes off as nagging, and I was soon as annoyed with her as her onscreen co-workers. The character Dan, played by Jason Clarke was a far deeper character and felt like the only real person in the film.
The movie was tense and I enjoyed it, but characterization was a weakness. The ending was pretty flat as I didn't feel any emotional connection to Maya. Bob called her single-minded and that's a good description. She is like a Al-queada destroying robot.
The movie was tense and I enjoyed it, but characterization was a weakness. The ending was pretty flat as I didn't feel any emotional connection to Maya. Bob called her single-minded and that's a good description. She is like a Al-queada destroying robot.
For the movie, it feels good to get Bin Laden, but it is almost besides the point. We get to, metaphorically, see sausage getting made and it aint pretty. All the red tape, the nitty gritty, what ground intelligence agents must live through and more.Alandoril said:
The procedure, including the final raid, which is a procedure, is the reason to watch.
And my bet: Pacific Rim is going to blow chunks.
I was shocked by Maya's blandness through about 1/2 the movie but then Chastane lets loose. What seemed dull early now seems like reserve. She is naggy. While being so, I'm thinking, "this is a lady with a big government check and she hasn't made good on her job in like, 10 years and she is fighting to keep herself relevant, as well as fight for what she believes: get Bin Laden. Maybe I'm just jaded. But I think her transformation noteworthy. From bore to unhinged in one movie.invadergir said:
Presents you with facts? Says here it is, think what you want to think?MovieBob said:
C'mon Bob...this movie wasn't factual at all, it was a fictional historical dramatization. Which is fine, it is just your job as a movie review to present it as such and not hype it as some sort of legitimate historical presentation.
Kathryn Bigelow fictionalized american's use of torture in finding Osama's location, and then lied about it to the public only to retract her statement later on.
Having just come back from the movie myself, and re-watching Movie Bob's review, I agree with him on pretty much every point. Chastain's character was pitch-perfect and a great protagonist, never mind that she was a female working within a field highly dominated by men. She was a great character that showed a lot of depth with the slightest look or flare of a marker. That alone made the movie brilliant, but the other parts -- the torture, the despair, the events, the bad intel, the horror, and the raid -- all fell into a cadence that kept moving. And did anyone else notice that this movie seemed to be separated into specific chapters, as if it were a book?
As for the raid, and the killing of bin Laden, after a few minutes it almost became a somber event. By the end, when all was said and done and he was dead, it felt like an empty victory.
I normally don't get a post movie-high, but this was good enough to give me one. My best picture of the year.
As an aside, I found it extremely interesting to see torture techniques used in the film that were used in WWII and probably before. I'm talking mostly of the box. At times I found it hard to separate what happened to my grandfather at the hands of the Nazi's, who put him in a box not any bigger than that, with what the film showed me. If anything, the first part of the movie, with all of its torture, could be seen as a warning finger not to repeat the sins of the past. Looks like we may have missed that lesson.
As for the raid, and the killing of bin Laden, after a few minutes it almost became a somber event. By the end, when all was said and done and he was dead, it felt like an empty victory.
I normally don't get a post movie-high, but this was good enough to give me one. My best picture of the year.
As an aside, I found it extremely interesting to see torture techniques used in the film that were used in WWII and probably before. I'm talking mostly of the box. At times I found it hard to separate what happened to my grandfather at the hands of the Nazi's, who put him in a box not any bigger than that, with what the film showed me. If anything, the first part of the movie, with all of its torture, could be seen as a warning finger not to repeat the sins of the past. Looks like we may have missed that lesson.