Bonus: Game of Thrones-Cast
The Escapist talks about everything the HBO show gets wrong.
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The Escapist talks about everything the HBO show gets wrong.
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Escapist Podcast: Bonus: Game of Thrones-Cast
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Following is perhaps a spoiler, but I try not to go into books 3-5
The portrayal of Jaime is indeed pretty messed up sofar. Jaime was, as a boy, similar to Sansa in his naive belief of heroism and knighthood. He was good looking, noble born, the squire of the great Baristan Selmy and a champion at the tournaments.
And then at 16 he became a knight of the kingsguard and had to watch the mad king burning innocent people alive. And his hero Selmy just watched and did nothing. And then at the end of the war when the King ordered him to burn Kingslanding to the ground he decided to break his oaths and killed Aerys. But instead of beeing the hero as he thougth, even Ned Stark and Robert Baretheon despised him for what he did and he became the Kingslayer a title little better than a rapist.
All this contempt and the rude awakening to reality during his time under King Aerys shaped his character and he started to wear the arrogance and his 'I-Dont-care-about-anything' attitude as an armor against this hurtful contempt. But his deepest desire, is to be the golden hero - loved by all.
The portrayal of Jaime is indeed pretty messed up sofar. Jaime was, as a boy, similar to Sansa in his naive belief of heroism and knighthood. He was good looking, noble born, the squire of the great Baristan Selmy and a champion at the tournaments.
And then at 16 he became a knight of the kingsguard and had to watch the mad king burning innocent people alive. And his hero Selmy just watched and did nothing. And then at the end of the war when the King ordered him to burn Kingslanding to the ground he decided to break his oaths and killed Aerys. But instead of beeing the hero as he thougth, even Ned Stark and Robert Baretheon despised him for what he did and he became the Kingslayer a title little better than a rapist.
All this contempt and the rude awakening to reality during his time under King Aerys shaped his character and he started to wear the arrogance and his 'I-Dont-care-about-anything' attitude as an armor against this hurtful contempt. But his deepest desire, is to be the golden hero - loved by all.
Wow, two weeks already, but this is one of my favorite things on the Escapist right now. I just want to add to Catelyn character in the book was dealing with dying father in Riverrun(Her father's castle and where Rob's base camp is in the books) The Tully Family so far have been written out of the TV series, I didn't notice that until you guys pointed it out.
Catelyn was always my favorite character.
Catelyn was always my favorite character.
Yup, alot of us love the series, so we will make corrections if ya make msitakes. I am sure you'd do the same if it were a poscast on Dr. Who.
Great podcast, amen to most of what Alex said. I think they really made a wrong choice with Jaime. I am also baffled why he needed to kill Cleos... wouldnt pretend pain/dying have worked just as well?
Also I couldnt help but notice Arya is not killing anyone... which makes her very different to the book version. Did the show have her kill the stable boy in the first season? I cant remember.
Well hope you do at least one more for the season finale.
Great podcast, amen to most of what Alex said. I think they really made a wrong choice with Jaime. I am also baffled why he needed to kill Cleos... wouldnt pretend pain/dying have worked just as well?
Also I couldnt help but notice Arya is not killing anyone... which makes her very different to the book version. Did the show have her kill the stable boy in the first season? I cant remember.
Well hope you do at least one more for the season finale.
All depends on the way the correction is made. Some people are pretty jerky about it. Correcting us is fine, scolding us is not.Ramith said:
This is pretty much my favourite thing on the site now. 
Sorry Bob.
I never suspected that was Bran and Rickon. Maybe I'm just an optimist.
Sorry Bob.
I never suspected that was Bran and Rickon. Maybe I'm just an optimist.
I can't believe people actually believed it was the two Stark boys Theon burned. They played up the two orphan boys SO MUCH. I haven't read the SoIaF books, but I knew before I saw the bodies who it was (and who it wasn't). I also realized that the Lannister cousin was dead the moment he started scooting toward Jamie during their heart-to-heart. This show is not subtle with the foreshadowing.
That's what sucks. With book 2, I was shocked as hell at the thought of them being dead. Then of course... Yeah.Brainst0rm said:
"Lannister and Stark together! They makes Snark."
~Best way to end the podcast possible ^^ , with triple word score for talking about Tyrion and Arya as Snark.
~Best way to end the podcast possible ^^ , with triple word score for talking about Tyrion and Arya as Snark.
That is a very good, and nice interpretation of Jaimie's personality. Although I do believe he did want to be the hero (the hero of glory, not the champion of little-folk-justice), I think that the above interpretation is naive. We do not know much about Jaimie's past or shaping influences. We get a hint from the later POVs, but we do not have anything from earlier in his life.Raban said:
After all,he did grow up without a mother under Tywin's "care", with Titus's (that asshole) influence and fucking his sister for sport. Most chivalrous indeed.
For the record, he's one of my favourites
On the defense of King's Landing, I don't think they ever showed the creation of the huge iron chain. Where Tyrion forced all the blacksmith's to start making chain links even though they originally refused.
On changing characters for the show, Jaime Lannister is more evil than in the book, Dany is made more a classic princess in distress, Jon Snow is portrayed as a soft-hearted incompetent.
I'd like to think these character changes are being made to give these characters' personalities a sense of progression. For example, the princess becomes competent beloved ruler; wayward knight seeks redemption by walking a path of honor; naive adventurer learns more of the world and what it means to lead. I suppose we'll have to wait for season 3 to see if they pull that off, if it is what they trying to do.
The issue I as someone who listened to all the audio books is having, is that for me this second season is rehashing the beginning these characters' arcs that was told in satisfaction in book/season one, instead of progressing them further.
But I supposed if someone only watched the show it would feel early to progress their arcs because the show doesn't have any of the self narration monologues prevalent in the pov style of the books.
Like if Dany had come into Qarth with an attitude of manifest destiny and rule of divine right, it probably wouldn't have made much sense to an audience that's never been shown or told of the "mystical" dreams she has. A good example of this would be at the end of first season when she was tricked by the magi if you didn't read the book you don't understand the level of loss she had in losing that child.
The night they were trying to revive Drogo she dreamed a son with white hair in a long braid that conquered the world, but as the ritual went on she saw that vision of her son die and turn to worms. So when she woke up she knew her child was dead and she was betrayed. So unless you were exposed to the book you wouldn't have known that she didn't just lose a child but she lost her heir.
On changing characters for the show, Jaime Lannister is more evil than in the book, Dany is made more a classic princess in distress, Jon Snow is portrayed as a soft-hearted incompetent.
I'd like to think these character changes are being made to give these characters' personalities a sense of progression. For example, the princess becomes competent beloved ruler; wayward knight seeks redemption by walking a path of honor; naive adventurer learns more of the world and what it means to lead. I suppose we'll have to wait for season 3 to see if they pull that off, if it is what they trying to do.
The issue I as someone who listened to all the audio books is having, is that for me this second season is rehashing the beginning these characters' arcs that was told in satisfaction in book/season one, instead of progressing them further.
But I supposed if someone only watched the show it would feel early to progress their arcs because the show doesn't have any of the self narration monologues prevalent in the pov style of the books.
Like if Dany had come into Qarth with an attitude of manifest destiny and rule of divine right, it probably wouldn't have made much sense to an audience that's never been shown or told of the "mystical" dreams she has. A good example of this would be at the end of first season when she was tricked by the magi if you didn't read the book you don't understand the level of loss she had in losing that child.
The night they were trying to revive Drogo she dreamed a son with white hair in a long braid that conquered the world, but as the ritual went on she saw that vision of her son die and turn to worms. So when she woke up she knew her child was dead and she was betrayed. So unless you were exposed to the book you wouldn't have known that she didn't just lose a child but she lost her heir.
I should probably qualify this by saying that I've never read any of the books so I don't know if the idea I've been given by listening to these is accurate... but I think it's a very good thing that formerly archetypal male 'heroes', are now being portrayed with more conflict and complexity. It's sort if like what Yahtzee said in his latest Extra Punctuation, in the sense that a character needs more motivation to do something than just 'being the good guy'. For example, I personally though that, far from ruining the movie, the portrayal of Aragorn in LOTR as a guy running away from his birthright, because despite his abilities he doesn't feel he's up to the task of being a king, is far more relatable and sympathetic than the traditional version.
I've only actually seen patches of the TV series too come to think of it. I've kinda liked what I've seen so far, but I don't really have a lot of context. Would you recommend it, despite all the liberties it's apparently taking with the books, or is it just made for people who are already fans?
I've only actually seen patches of the TV series too come to think of it. I've kinda liked what I've seen so far, but I don't really have a lot of context. Would you recommend it, despite all the liberties it's apparently taking with the books, or is it just made for people who are already fans?