Escapist Podcast: Bonus: Mass Effect 3 With Spoilers Part 3

[MiracleOfSound]

I thought the Bioshock ending was awesome.

The final bossfight was made of ass, but the actual (good) ending was beautiful and touching.

 

[Akafrank]

The other games that you mentioned had massive narrative issues prior to the endings. Bioshock had a good ending, it just happened before the game was over.

Bioware can do what they wish with the ending. They have no obligation to the fans or the customers, but they do have an obligation to their narrative. The end of ME3 was parceled off from the rest of the game, and changed both their narrative and game rules, to facilitate a deliberately ambiguous ending section. This comes off, as narratively dishonest.

Simply I think most of the fans want Mass Effect to end in a way consistent with the story and gameplay of Mass Effect.

N,B: Thank you for having a podcast about this that is not simply berating fans, and discounting their issues as entitlement and nerd nitpicking.

 

[Rassmusseum]

Just curious, I'm assuming there will be no normal, numbered podcast today?

 

[StriderShinryu]

An excellent discussion of the ending situation, and one that was quite fair to all sides. I mean, there was even some agreement with FTC Complaint Guy. Good stuff.

Favourite squadmate? Garrus was cool, but I have to say Tali. And no, I didn't romance her. I really liked her character and thought her growth throughout the entire series was excellently crafted. Miranda was also in contention as both my Shep's love interest but also as a much more multifaceted character than she often gets credit for. Her scenes in ME3 were all excellent and I was quite saddened by the fact that she didn't return as a squadmate even just for the last run once she'd taken care of her personal business.

Would a non game ending work? Not for me, no. First off, no traditional media format would be able to work with everyone's possible endings. Simple in game pages a la Dragon Age while not exactly exciting would at least be able to fulfil that purpose. Either way, there's also the question of interaction. I can appreciate that there are multiple media types built up into the ME universe at this point but when talking about the actual ending of a game, that ending should come in game.

Would I think less of Bioware if they did include some sort of altered ending? Not at all. In fact, I would probably gain even more respect for them. I know that any ending they did include would be of their creation and their choosing (and I wouldn't be shocked if they already had something in the cards before the whole uproar). I would not seeing it as caving in or selling out at all. To the contrary, I would see it as respect for their dedicated fanbase as well as their own game. Realizing that you've done something wrong, admitting to it and working changing it is a brave move.

Do I think it would set some sort of negative precedent? Not really. If anything, it might get develoeprs and publishers to think a little more about their fans when it comes to crafting something like ME. You never want to create art for a focus group but, at the same time, when you're talking about an interactive experience it's important to put some weight on the player side of the equation. And, as was said in the podcast, any decisions about both this situation and others in the future will be made by the developers. Fans can demand all they want but if what they want is impossible or totally against developer wishes, it still won't happen.. no matter how many baked goods are delivered.

 

[Kingjackl]

...I liked Jacob.

 

[Susan Arendt]

I thought the Bioshock ending was awesome.

The final bossfight was made of ass, but the actual (good) ending was beautiful and touching.

I'm talking about the boss fight and the BS escort mission that led up to it. The stuff after the boss fight I like just fine.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Anything in particular you don't agree with? Or just that ME3 is a good game?

It's just we have too diferent tastes in games, and look different stuff there, almost diametricaly opposed.

In SW:ToR for example i leveled almost just in warzones doing only the class quests because after level 10 the voice and minor choices didn't made me forget i was grinding to level in MMO less polished than WoW or even Rift; i have yet to hear your SW podcast but will assume that is a way of playing not very appealing to you (with good reasons, I am probably seeing the weakest suit of SW).

And ME3 is a good game, generic doesn't mean bad, I also think The Fifth Element is a generic action Sci-Fi movie, and it is good; generic is kind of forgettable for me though and I use it for this game because even if well done I can't find a single innovation in it (and no, doing bad endings is not an innovation, videogames have been doing that since the beginning of times). To ME credit i must say that after losing my saves now i plan to play ME 1 and 2 because it is good enough to make me care about having a relationship developed with my crew, will probably happen when i am trapped on a cell with only a pc and those games though or when ME4 launches and it's the second coming of Christ.

To resume, you are just the kind of person that i like, but our tastes on videogames are so different i can't relate to even though i understand them, just as you probably can understand why i would say "SC II world finals are like watching a dance by Pina Bausch" even though you might think it's silly.

Edit: Pardon my english, non native and ortography and i aren't on speaking therms in any language anyway.

I don't play Old Republic.

 

[Trishbot]

Here's hoping they announce a new ending just so we can get a new podcast talking about it.

 

[Rassmusseum]

Just curious, I'm assuming there will be no normal, numbered podcast today?

Nevermind, just checked the front page again. Two podcasts in one day? Love you guys!

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I thought the Bioshock ending was awesome.

The final bossfight was made of ass, but the actual (good) ending was beautiful and touching.

I'm talking about the boss fight and the BS escort mission that led up to it. The stuff after the boss fight I like just fine.

100% agreed, the entire final 2 chapters were a long, dull chore. But that final cutscene... wow. Actually the Bioshock 2 ending was amazing too. Had me in floods of tears!

 

[Tanakh]

I don't play Old Republic.

Don't remember saying you did, was just describing a style and I would assume you are familiar with the concepts if not the specifics.

 

[Juan Regular]

100% agreed, the entire final 2 chapters were a long, dull chore. But that final cutscene... wow. Actually the Bioshock 2 ending was amazing too. Had me in floods of tears!

I thought the Bioshock 1 ending seemed a little like it was hastily put together and didn´t fit well into the game I just played. It was also way too short for my liking.
I agree with Bioshock 2 though. Perfect ending. That game doesn´t nearly get the love it deserves.
I wonder if Susan finally came around and finished it.

 

[Akisa]

I seriously doubt that if any new endings were released for Mass Effect 3, it's not going to be free.

 

[Valanthe]

I keep seeing this word "precedent" getting tossed around about these endings, and I find it curious. There is no obligation to precedence in the gaming industry, this isn't case law. I think that if you have created something and the vast majority of the people you are depending upon for your income are up in arms about the thing you created, then yes, you do have an obligation because guess what, no matter how much you throw around 'artistic integrity' or 'developer's rights' you are dependant upon the whims of your fans to keep yourself employed.

But that's beside my point, what I want to say is that there is no such thing as precedent, just because Bioware gives in to huge fan pressure, doesn't mean Bethesda and Square Enix are automatically going to, or even have to do the same. Hell even Bioware won't have to do it again if they don't get the majority of their fan base to shout them down.

-edit- Also, I am so gonna go find out about that nonstandard Game Over with the Crucible, because I sat there plinking away at that Star-kid for like five minutes and never got that...

-double edit- Holy crap, you mean I'm not the only person on the planet who has read about Honor Harrington?!?!

 

[Eric Morales]

Loving the podcast, though sometimes I can't tell if Susan was being sincere or if she was just trying to play devil's advocate to make panelists back up their assertions. Whatever the case, it made for great listening.
Wholeheartedly agree that most of the complaints about BioWare come from a place of love for the series.

 

[pixiejedi]

I've loved all of these Mass Effect 3 podcasts. I have never been able to sit through a whole one before. Great job!

My friend told me he felt like he had most in common with Jacob. I told him he shouldn't be so down on himself.

His romance made a lot of sense. He was never like Kaiden or Ash who seem to genuinely be in love with Shep. He refers to her as a prize, to me it screams booty call to me.

 

[Parshooter]

What they could do with the entire "Continuing Mass Effect" thing, I think they could do another cycle. Say the Keeper cycle, when the Reapers were just starting out, and the galaxy still has an OK chance to actually overpower them. Being such a long time ago, you have plenty of space for choice and new lore-building, and it's not ultimately going to change the original ME trilogy. That'd have the problem of having you play as other (*GASP* NON HUMANOID?!) races, and balancing that to a familiar Soldier/Adept/Engineer system, but I think it has a lot of potential.

The only problem with that is how that would call for all new character models and really creativity which cost money(as you said). Much easier to import the same models from the last game and to write for characters. Plus the game would lead to the death of whatever races you just made. Therefore the only viable cycle to do would be the prothians because in their cycle they were able to have a heroic sacrifice.

Also the prothians were the only race with space travel in their cycle that wasn't enslaved.

 

[Screamarie]

Whoo double podcats! So much fun as usual guys. I only started listening to these at the beginning of the month and they've become my favorite thing on the Escpaist and I've started looking forward to fridays just for this.

 

[Daedrin]

Gotta say, I quite literally lost it when Mordin died in my game. Pure paragon, peacemaking, warstopping, council-saving ParaShep. As soon as Mordin died, I snapped. It was weird. I didn't care what it took anymore. I was ending this war and I was winning it. At first I didn't even want to finish the game. But the next day, I tackled the game again and at some point noticed my Renegade scars......


Mordin, never forget.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

@Susan

"I have a problem with the word 'lied'. But if you really believe to the core of your soul that Bioware lied..."

I stopped listening there. With respect, you evidently didn't pay as much attention to Bioware's promises as the fans did. I'm a rather cynical person and know better than to trust what developers say about a game before its release, but even I was surprised at how many bare-faced lies (yes, that is the right word) Bioware told about the game. One example (specifically regarding the ending of the game, to stay on topic): it is not possible to get the ending where Shepard lives without playing MP, despite numerous very clear statements to the contrary by Bioware. For Shepard to live you need 5000 EMS, but with 50% Galactic Readiness (no MP) the highest EMS you can get is less than 4000 i.e. not even close.