ever feel stressed about death?

[[.redacted]]

I'll act on your definition of significance for the sake of argument. How do you measure the magnitude of effect? Size? Certainly something physically small can be of great importance. A mountain is larger than a human being - but in terms of complex relations to the world, the human typically dwarfs the mountain.

So what if we don't move the most mass or energy in the universe, or trigger the largest events? Why is something that lasts longer than us of any more importance if it too is subject to the ravages of time? Why is time itself of importance when it continues to pass with no being to perceive its passing? If the universe had no sentient beings like humans, who cares how much mass and energy flies around or how much time passes? No one. Unless you believe in God, which it seems you do not.

What does it even mean to be "remembered by the universe?" We are remembered by our fellow sentient life forms and that is the only place memory can exist. Do you want to leave a permanent fossil or something?

If we are the only sentient life in the universe, that makes us pretty damned significant, I'd say.

To which I would say, perhaps.

But in the end, as individuals, we will die in after a minuscule stretch of time, having had no effect on the universe as a whole.

I have no idea how you would measure importance when it is not relative, but I do know that should you die tomorrow, should I die today, or should the whole earth be incinerated in the next hour, nothing would change in the universe.

That, you cannot dispute.

 

[binvjoh]

Not my own, not yet.

My parents' though, that's a whole other story.

 

[TWRule]

I'll act on your definition of significance for the sake of argument. How do you measure the magnitude of effect? Size? Certainly something physically small can be of great importance. A mountain is larger than a human being - but in terms of complex relations to the world, the human typically dwarfs the mountain.

So what if we don't move the most mass or energy in the universe, or trigger the largest events? Why is something that lasts longer than us of any more importance if it too is subject to the ravages of time? Why is time itself of importance when it continues to pass with no being to perceive its passing? If the universe had no sentient beings like humans, who cares how much mass and energy flies around or how much time passes? No one. Unless you believe in God, which it seems you do not.

What does it even mean to be "remembered by the universe?" We are remembered by our fellow sentient life forms and that is the only place memory can exist. Do you want to leave a permanent fossil or something?

If we are the only sentient life in the universe, that makes us pretty damned significant, I'd say.

To which I would say, perhaps.

But in the end, as individuals, we will die in after a minuscule stretch of time, having had no effect on the universe as a whole.

I have no idea how you would measure importance when it is not relative, but I do know that should you die tomorrow, should I die today, or should the whole earth be incinerated in the next hour, nothing would change in the universe.

That, you cannot dispute.

I was talking about a type of relation beyond basic physical causal relations.

I'm still not sure what kind of universal change would satisfy you, but I'll grant you that...

...Unless you consider the possibilities of what we could have done with our lives no longer being so - or more significantly, if all life on Earth perished and there was no other sentience to preceive the universe, it would technically lose any meaning attributable to it.

 

[BruceyBaby]

I think about death ever day. The concept has cursed me ever since I was around 8, when I first came to question what happens when we die (i was brought up agnostic, effectively).

Death scares the living shit out of me, both because I dont want to lose my loved ones, and the idea of infinite non existence is shattering. I feel physically weak when I think about it. Infinity is a long fucking time.

It's basically the only thing I worry about. And the only thing that could ever persuade me to be religious.

 

[OniaPL]

Everyone dies, what's there to fear, really? If it happens, it happens. Not much you can do about it, so don't bother thinking about it.

 

[[.redacted]]

I was talking about a type of relation beyond basic physical causal relations.

I'm still not sure what kind of universal change would satisfy you, but I'll grant you that...

...Unless you consider the possibilities of what we could have done with our lives no longer being so - or more significantly, if all life on Earth perished and there was no other sentience to preceive the universe, it would technically lose any meaning attributable to it.

What do you mean by that?
Who says that sentient life is even a 'good' thing, or even important at all.

This is part of being a human being, that we take our one attribute that we hold above all others, and assume it is one of the most important attributes to have.

That is not necessarily so.

It may lose its meaning to us, but this meaning that we're attaching to it is just a way for us to label things in a way that we can understand them, the things themselves have not changed as a result of us being there.

 

[Dfskelleton]

I don't fear death. I fear how it'll happen.

 

[ninetails593]

As long as you're faithful to your religion you don't have to fear death.

 

[BruceyBaby]

As long as you're faithful to your religion you don't have to fear death.

Troll.

 

[tehfeen83]

Nope. Unless it's some slow, horrible death like being eaten alive be fire ants.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I use to, I was rather young when the concept that enivatbly I was going to die entered my head (I think I was six? maybe?) and it wasn't even because of someone I knew dying. I just came to realisation on my own that we all inevitably die, and when we do? Nothing. The concept of nothingness scared me horribly.

Now some 15 years later, I accept it as inevitability. Logically it's pointless to worry about it anyway, man's fear of death is only his fear of life. I'm more worried about doing something with my life that has value.

 

[ninetails593]

As long as you're faithful to your religion you don't have to fear death.

Troll.

You're the troll.

 

[Gemore]

I live next to a cemetery, so I can't much get away from it. I can't say I'm looking forward to dying, but it's not like I'm going to know it's happened. I just hope I can get out some good last words.

Upon reading this i realized something about myself.

I wont fear death as long as i get to say say some awesome, memorable, witty last words.

Also, as long as ive lived a full an happy life.

And learnt the meaning to life the universe and everything.

 

[TWRule]

I was talking about a type of relation beyond basic physical causal relations.

I'm still not sure what kind of universal change would satisfy you, but I'll grant you that...

...Unless you consider the possibilities of what we could have done with our lives no longer being so - or more significantly, if all life on Earth perished and there was no other sentience to preceive the universe, it would technically lose any meaning attributable to it.

What do you mean by that?
Who says that sentient life is even a 'good' thing, or even important at all.

This is part of being a human being, that we take our one attribute that we hold above all others, and assume it is one of the most important attributes to have.

That is not necessarily so.

It may lose its meaning to us, but this meaning that we're attaching to it is just a way for us to label things in a way that we can understand them, the things themselves have not changed as a result of us being there.

We say that life is important - that's the point. We say whether anything is important.

Of course the most meaningful thing possible is going to be meaning itself. That's the logical conclusion, not something arbitrary. I didn't say consciousness was inherently "signficant" by your definition, but it is a prerequisite for meaning's existence. The relations consciousness creates within the world allow us to grasp the idea of significance. If the universe loses it's meaning to us, and we're the only ones that can comprehend meaning, what is left?

Why does everything have to be measured in physical change? What does that matter? Do you want to rewrite the laws of the universe? What would that prove? What is so important about "change"?

 

[nomis101uk]

Death is nothing to fear at all. Not existing after death will be no more troublesome than not existing before birth (or conception). Only the process of dying is something potentially to fear...

Unless of course you believe in all this heaven and hell, afterlife stuff. In which case death is something to fear, I'd imagine. Even if you're convinced you're going to heaven, there must always be that gnawing doubt. That fear of the unknown.

But me, I'm an atheist and view death as the most natural thing in the world. Not everything that gets a chance to live does so. But everything that lives eventually dies. So I'm very calm and feel I have a very healthy attitude towards the subject. I don't welcome it, I'm not uncaring or sociopathic about it, but nor does it scare me.

 

[skitzo van]

No, I believe in some old Christian theory that everything happens for a reason, so no.

 

[[.redacted]]

As long as you're faithful to your religion you don't have to fear death.

No.

I agree that it may be way of coping with the fear of death, and that it may be effective at that job - but religion should never utilise the tactic of telling people that they're screwed if they don't believe.

That's just wrong.

 

[[.redacted]]

We say that life is important - that's the point. We say whether anything is important.

Of course the most meaningful thing possible is going to be meaning itself. That's the logical conclusion, not something arbitrary. I didn't say consciousness was inherently "signficant" by your definition, but it is a prerequisite for meaning's existence. The relations consciousness creates within the world allow us to grasp the idea of significance. If the universe loses it's meaning to us, and we're the only ones that can comprehend meaning, what is left?

Why does everything have to be measured in physical change? What does that matter? Do you want to rewrite the laws of the universe? What would that prove? What is so important about "change"?

This is where the whole conversation loops back round to the original question:

It doesn't matter whether or not we attach arbitrary significance to the 'meaning' we give things, or indeed whether we physically change something.

The real root of the insignificance of the human being lies in the fact that, as far as we know, there is no ultimate goal by which to judge our relative worth. We have made them all up, and when we're gone, so are they.

Life is purely for us to make our own gaols, succeed or fail, and then die. I cannot see the meaning, and hence significance, behind any of that.

 

[TWRule]

We say that life is important - that's the point. We say whether anything is important.

Of course the most meaningful thing possible is going to be meaning itself. That's the logical conclusion, not something arbitrary. I didn't say consciousness was inherently "signficant" by your definition, but it is a prerequisite for meaning's existence. The relations consciousness creates within the world allow us to grasp the idea of significance. If the universe loses it's meaning to us, and we're the only ones that can comprehend meaning, what is left?

Why does everything have to be measured in physical change? What does that matter? Do you want to rewrite the laws of the universe? What would that prove? What is so important about "change"?

This is where the whole conversation loops back round to the original question:

It doesn't matter whether or not we attach arbitrary significance to the 'meaning' we give things, or indeed whether we physically change something.

The real root of the insignificance of the human being lies in the fact that, as far as we know, there is no ultimate goal by which to judge our relative worth. We have made them all up, and when we're gone, so are they.

Life is purely for us to make our own gaols, succeed or fail, and then die. I cannot see the meaning, and hence significance, behind any of that.

Who says we can't have an ultimate goal? Maybe we just haven't discovered it yet - or maybe we'll set it ourselves (which doesn't necessarily make it arbitrary). Furthermore, why must we have a specific goal to have worth?

If you need others to give your life significance, we have every other human being that will ever live, and possibly sentient alien life. As long as one sentient being lives, our lives are potentially significant. Again, if we all suddenly cease to be, that would indeed bring us to meaninglessness, but before that - we can give significance to ourselves by relating to the world and eachother in myriad ways.