Everything You Know about Anime Is Wrong
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I'd just like to take the genre/medium debate further and say that anime isn't even that, it's an art style not a medium. All the colouring styles, proportions and lighting that people use to visually identify anime don't use any conventions different from western animation, it just looks different. Plus the argument that anime refers to animation that was made in Japan doesn't hold up because other countries have created cartoons with the anime art style and Japan has created animation with a more western art style and feel. I see why people refer to it as a genre though because the cartoons in the anime art style often exhibit similar themes and tropes seemingly exclusive to the art style.
I am still a anime geek and do enjoy it it just feels like the peak for anime is over and nothing really "new" and "good" comes out I've watched a few animes that are already over on netflix and I do read mangas weekly I just haven't been able to find anything good though that's "current" since Code Geass and that's well cause it was freaking glorious if something really really good was released I'd probably watch it
Good stuff, although I already knew most of it.
Something you may wanna add is how the term "anime" is really just shorthand for the Japanese equivalent of "animation": animeshon (as there's no real word for "animation" in Japanese).
Unless someone else already did. In which case, please disregard.
Something you may wanna add is how the term "anime" is really just shorthand for the Japanese equivalent of "animation": animeshon (as there's no real word for "animation" in Japanese).
Unless someone else already did. In which case, please disregard.
this and venture bros are what first came to my mind when op mentioned serious American animation. there both still comedies but have enough of a sub genre to make me count it.Irridium said:
op: good post i read it all the way through and enjoyed it. although besides the names of a few titles to check out i didn't really learn anything{not necessarily a bad thing}.
Thread needz moar Persona 4 Animation!!1!
Inner fanboy aside, pretty cool read. Education is fun.
*Makes note to get The Boondocks season 1-3 on dvd.*
Inner fanboy aside, pretty cool read. Education is fun.
*Makes note to get The Boondocks season 1-3 on dvd.*
Anime as its usually referred to is a genre that is usually a Japanese style ANIMATION. Note the word in all caps that is the genre.AvauntVanguard said:
The best reply to a thread I've ever read.manic_depressive13 said:
Also: Y'all niggas is gay
EDIT - I know how to end war because of Gundam. Countries build one giant fucking robot-suit and then the rival countries duke it out in space. We can tune in on pay-per-view and solve any economic crisis caused by building giant fucking robot-suits.
A solution to a problem we don't have >
(Yes I know that's not what Gundam and its affiliate series are about. I just want to see giant fucking robot-suits)
Anime fans are bashed more than furries now (maybe). Well thats...... good I guess. We certainly did our time in that position.
Learned afew things. I keep an open mind on everything. Anime to me is just animation. How a show actually is it's just it's own flavor, they can be shared between different shows sure, but ya you said this already. Good read, and good day. *Top hats away*!
Learned afew things. I keep an open mind on everything. Anime to me is just animation. How a show actually is it's just it's own flavor, they can be shared between different shows sure, but ya you said this already. Good read, and good day. *Top hats away*!
People who make assumptions on anime do exist, there rare or just quiet, chances are the OP ran in to one of this people and had an unpleasant experience conversing with them so they ended up using the forums to vent a bit, nothing wrong with that.Eternal Taros said:
Agreed, its the same thing with MLP to be honest. Now I get belittled by my anime watching friends for saying stuff like this because APPARENTLY it means that im not at ease with my sexuality and that I am just looking at its cover and not appreciating it for what it is......Archer666 said:
but seriously people need to understand that japan is weird, and in a lot of cases immature sexually. Now, there are some anime that I like, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, which are obviously less immature, and I understand that not all anime is like this, but the most numerous and popular anime are.
another GIGANTIC problem I have with anime is laziness when it comes to animation. The amount of static shots where only characters mouths move is ridiculous, which is furthered by the amount of excessive talking that EVERYONE does. Occasionally they have their money shots but they are few are far apart. I get that this may be because of quality of the art style, but frankly its boring to watch most of the time. I want to watch cartoons because they are exciting.
But I just cannot get over the over-sexualization of underage looking girls and WHY people choose to defend it. Maybe I'm too much of a goody goody, but watching a show about little girls basically being molested by their peers to the entire societies approval is just sick.
A few gems in a sea of shit is not enough to redeem the genre. If you wanted to avoid sounding pretentious, you failed. I appreciate certain anime shows for trying to steer animation as a medium into a more mature and serious direction but they obviously failed.
Just like any medium, most of what's made is going to be garbage not worth your time. Seriously, if you had to flip through and watch an episode each of randomly selected American TV, wouldn't you just give up?
I definitely understand not wanted to slog through the sameness, pointless weirdness, or outright perversion to get to the good shows, when you could just say, "I know Breaking Bad is good, I know The Wire is good, and I know Dexter is good. Why am I even bothering trying to decipher a whole other market for content when I can just watch what I have?"
I enjoyed Gurren Lagann, Cowboy Bebop, and Baccano!, but I've also had to sit through the agony of some less-enjoyable shows as my roommate unceremoniously blasted them through my TV. However, I also have way too much time on my hands.
I definitely understand not wanted to slog through the sameness, pointless weirdness, or outright perversion to get to the good shows, when you could just say, "I know Breaking Bad is good, I know The Wire is good, and I know Dexter is good. Why am I even bothering trying to decipher a whole other market for content when I can just watch what I have?"
I enjoyed Gurren Lagann, Cowboy Bebop, and Baccano!, but I've also had to sit through the agony of some less-enjoyable shows as my roommate unceremoniously blasted them through my TV. However, I also have way too much time on my hands.
Okay, there's been a whole lot of posts since I was last here. There's no way I can address each and every one, so I'll cover a few of the topics that popped up multiple times (I read each of your posts though!)
Do you use the visual aesthetic of a show as an indicator? So, wouldn't that mean that American shows like Avatar and The Boondocks would be classed as "anime" under this definition? Granted, some people might agree with this, but for a lot of fans, they wouldn't.
Okay, so do we use country of origin as an indicator? Well no, since Japan has produced animation for American studios in past (they've worked on Animaniacs and Cinderella to name two), this definition would mean these are "anime" by that definition, and I think most people would agree that they're not.
The tidiest solution? "animation from Japan, made for a Japanese audience" That covers both the previously mentioned problems. It's not perfect, but it will have to do. That's not something I made up, by the way, that's the definition they go by on the aniDB. Another good definition they use? "If something is encouraging me to masturbate, and is giving me the time in which to do so, THEN it's pornography".
But if you're talking about sexualization of girls younger than 14... Well, that is becoming a bit of a problem. I know what you're talking about, where a character is designed to look like she's 12 years old, but they say she's actually not. The creators then sexualize the hell out of her because they want make lolicon stuff and get away with it. This is a real problem that the Japanese governor is taking steps to try and solve. But for the fan, the answer is simple: don't watch the sort of shows that would try and pull the "legal loli" trick.
Let me set the scene for you. It's the 1960s, and Hanna-Barbara has just perfected the technique of "limited animation", animation which gives you a good-looking result, but is VASTLY cheaper to produce than traditional animation thanks to a lot of clever shortcuts, such as animating a character's walk cycle once, then continually re-using it. (modern anime uses a lot of these techniques as a point of trivia). At the same time, politicians have cracked down on the content of television programming, animation like what Tex Avery become famous for in the 40s was a big no-no. So, we've got a situation where an animation studio now has the ability to pump out animation cheaply and quickly, but it must be family-friendly. You can see where this going. Hanna-Barbara flooded TV with animation aimed at children, which for the generation who grew up with them forever changed their opinion of animation as "stuff for children"
Anime as the medium of animation/giving anime a special title separate from other animation
Okay, if you were paying attention, I said multiple times that "anime" is simply animation, just like any other. When I talked about anime as a "medium" I didn't mean that there was a medium called "anime", I was trying to imply it's simply part of the medium of "animation", which means it can look or be about whatever the creators what. If you'd read the second half, I think the idea that people try to classify "anime" and "American Animation" as two completely separate things is foolish.Why I define "anime" the way that I did
Think about this for a moment: what terms are you suppose to use to define what is "anime? If you're Japanese, you'd use this word to refer to ALL animation, regardless of country of origin, but shut up! Do you use the visual aesthetic of a show as an indicator? So, wouldn't that mean that American shows like Avatar and The Boondocks would be classed as "anime" under this definition? Granted, some people might agree with this, but for a lot of fans, they wouldn't.
Okay, so do we use country of origin as an indicator? Well no, since Japan has produced animation for American studios in past (they've worked on Animaniacs and Cinderella to name two), this definition would mean these are "anime" by that definition, and I think most people would agree that they're not.
The tidiest solution? "animation from Japan, made for a Japanese audience" That covers both the previously mentioned problems. It's not perfect, but it will have to do. That's not something I made up, by the way, that's the definition they go by on the aniDB. Another good definition they use? "If something is encouraging me to masturbate, and is giving me the time in which to do so, THEN it's pornography".
The sexualization of young girls in anime
Okay, the first thing you got to understand is, that in Japan the age of consent is 14. So any sexualization of girls as young as 14 is perfectly legal, at least in Japan. So if the character in question is 14 or slightly above, the problem them becomes a cultural one, since the age of consent is 18 in the States (and 16 here in Australia).But if you're talking about sexualization of girls younger than 14... Well, that is becoming a bit of a problem. I know what you're talking about, where a character is designed to look like she's 12 years old, but they say she's actually not. The creators then sexualize the hell out of her because they want make lolicon stuff and get away with it. This is a real problem that the Japanese governor is taking steps to try and solve. But for the fan, the answer is simple: don't watch the sort of shows that would try and pull the "legal loli" trick.
What Hanna-Barbara did in the 60s to tarnish the image of animation in the public's eyes
Okay, it's been while since I read the book that had this information, so this is off the top of my head. Let me set the scene for you. It's the 1960s, and Hanna-Barbara has just perfected the technique of "limited animation", animation which gives you a good-looking result, but is VASTLY cheaper to produce than traditional animation thanks to a lot of clever shortcuts, such as animating a character's walk cycle once, then continually re-using it. (modern anime uses a lot of these techniques as a point of trivia). At the same time, politicians have cracked down on the content of television programming, animation like what Tex Avery become famous for in the 40s was a big no-no. So, we've got a situation where an animation studio now has the ability to pump out animation cheaply and quickly, but it must be family-friendly. You can see where this going. Hanna-Barbara flooded TV with animation aimed at children, which for the generation who grew up with them forever changed their opinion of animation as "stuff for children"
Chill out dude! The arrogant attitude I wrote my OP in? Done for humour and to be attention-grabbing. I take it you don't like The Jimquision either because the guy is such an arrogant prick?Eternal Taros said:
Still an awesome show.Otaku World Order said:See also Ikki Tousen, Sekirei, Green Green, Koikoi Seven, Queen's Blade, Cutey Honey etc. etc.FireAza said:Ha ha, if you're planning on watching the type of show where the creators would put in a watermelon chested women (helloooo Eiken!) then you really shouldn't be surprised when the whole thing turns out to be one big cheese-fest
I've seen a lot of anime over the years of all kinds of genres, some good, some bad, some indifferent. The only "genre" of anime that really never worked for me was the live-action versions. I've seen about seven or eight of them and they always come off like hyperactive cosplayers who got their hands on a camera.
As for the "Otaku" thing... Yeah, most of my internet monikers contain that word. I stopped caring about negative conotations years ago. I started watching anime back in the 90's, when being everyone thought anime was either Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball, Tentacle Rape or Sailor Moon getting tentacle raped by Dragon Ball characters.
I had assumed that I was being so over-the-top that people get the joke, internets or no internets. You're the first one to take issue with just this specific thing.Eternal Taros said:
Also, since your avatar is a angry Asuka, I've been imagining your posts as spoken by Asuka. Just something I thought I mention
This is definitely one of the best articles that I have seen and commented on, in the Escapist forums. I, a moderate anime fan, enjoyed and agreed with pretty much everything you wrote. These are pretty much my exact thoughts on the matter word for word. I used to be way too into anime. I fell in to the "otaku" category of anime watcher from around 11-14/15 (6th-9th grade)(I'm 17 now), but when I started hanging out with some kids who were really into anime, being the self-conscious person that I am, I kind of started to see things from a bit of perspective and eventually backed off and lost that "Japan is great, they are supreme leaders of culture and art, why U no understand anime? I am the sole defender of Japan's(anime's) reputation on American soil!" mentality.
Although what I watch most of the time is still in fact, anime, and I spend a fair amount of time reading manga, I am by no means a Japanophile and/or weabboo. Really, most of these people who become obsessed with Japan are only interested because of the anime. (getting a little off topic there). I once informed one of my weabboo-ish friends that watching anime is frowned upon, unless you are a child, even if it is anime with an adult demographic, and he was completely taken aback by this. From that tone of voice, I could tell that he thought that in Japan it is cool to watch anime and that everyone watches it. I also informed him that otaku is in fact, a slur, and not some kind of accolade or title. It still irritates me a bit when I hear them proudly boast that they are otaku, when an otaku is just a shut-in who spends pretty much all of his/her time at home, generally passing the time with anime, and manga and such. I certainly know that I wouldn't want someone to refer to me as a no-life loser shut-in. Another thing that can irks me is when some obsessive anime fans refuse to accept certain animes as anime because they don't meet their standards. (many of my friends refuse to accept that cartoons such as Pokemon, yugioh, and bakugan are anime. This kind of pisses me off just thinking about it)If it is an animation made in Japan, then it's anime. It doesn't matter what you think that anime is, because it is what it is, not what you think it is.
Now to actually comment more on your actual post, I liked the points you made about how anime isn't a genre, as well as how it has many different artistic styles as well. out of the 5 pics, the first and third had me completely fooled. I would have definitely thought that the first was French, and the third, American, so it just goes to show that not every anime made in Japan features big-eyed, stereo-typical personality, boob-flashing, carbon copy characters that repeat themselves over and over again. It was really quite interesting to see that of the top 9 animations in Japan, none of them really fell into the stereo-typical anime category that we tend to perceive, and that one wasn't even Japanese. Also shows how little many of us anime fans who are so-called Japan experts, know about Japan, or even anime. I personally, am only familiar with Sazae through references in other anime, where they refer to the show for it's non-aging format where the characters never age as time goes on, but didn't really know what it was until today. Also liked how you addressed that annoying perception that many of us anime watchers have that anime is the vastly superior form of animation. That is simply foolish and people who really think that need to go rethink their lives.
In closing, liked the thread quite a bit because it resonated deeply with my own personal feelings about anime, but on the other hand, I don't really think that this kind of post really belongs here on the Escapist. I just mean that I think it's a bit misplaced, as most people here if not everyone, is into video games and the people here seem to be generally much more accepting and open of things like anime, and won't tie you to a stake and burn you for liking anime. I think it would better belong on a different website's forum, where people are either less accepting of anime, or where people are just insane about it and plan to give their kids anime names like "Ichigo Kurosaki Jones" That's just my opinion though, not really necessary here from what I've seen, but still a great thread. Btw, I'm quite tired while writing this because I was out from 7:30 to 9:45 so sorry if my post is too repetitive, or ranty.
Although what I watch most of the time is still in fact, anime, and I spend a fair amount of time reading manga, I am by no means a Japanophile and/or weabboo. Really, most of these people who become obsessed with Japan are only interested because of the anime. (getting a little off topic there). I once informed one of my weabboo-ish friends that watching anime is frowned upon, unless you are a child, even if it is anime with an adult demographic, and he was completely taken aback by this. From that tone of voice, I could tell that he thought that in Japan it is cool to watch anime and that everyone watches it. I also informed him that otaku is in fact, a slur, and not some kind of accolade or title. It still irritates me a bit when I hear them proudly boast that they are otaku, when an otaku is just a shut-in who spends pretty much all of his/her time at home, generally passing the time with anime, and manga and such. I certainly know that I wouldn't want someone to refer to me as a no-life loser shut-in. Another thing that can irks me is when some obsessive anime fans refuse to accept certain animes as anime because they don't meet their standards. (many of my friends refuse to accept that cartoons such as Pokemon, yugioh, and bakugan are anime. This kind of pisses me off just thinking about it)If it is an animation made in Japan, then it's anime. It doesn't matter what you think that anime is, because it is what it is, not what you think it is.
Now to actually comment more on your actual post, I liked the points you made about how anime isn't a genre, as well as how it has many different artistic styles as well. out of the 5 pics, the first and third had me completely fooled. I would have definitely thought that the first was French, and the third, American, so it just goes to show that not every anime made in Japan features big-eyed, stereo-typical personality, boob-flashing, carbon copy characters that repeat themselves over and over again. It was really quite interesting to see that of the top 9 animations in Japan, none of them really fell into the stereo-typical anime category that we tend to perceive, and that one wasn't even Japanese. Also shows how little many of us anime fans who are so-called Japan experts, know about Japan, or even anime. I personally, am only familiar with Sazae through references in other anime, where they refer to the show for it's non-aging format where the characters never age as time goes on, but didn't really know what it was until today. Also liked how you addressed that annoying perception that many of us anime watchers have that anime is the vastly superior form of animation. That is simply foolish and people who really think that need to go rethink their lives.
In closing, liked the thread quite a bit because it resonated deeply with my own personal feelings about anime, but on the other hand, I don't really think that this kind of post really belongs here on the Escapist. I just mean that I think it's a bit misplaced, as most people here if not everyone, is into video games and the people here seem to be generally much more accepting and open of things like anime, and won't tie you to a stake and burn you for liking anime. I think it would better belong on a different website's forum, where people are either less accepting of anime, or where people are just insane about it and plan to give their kids anime names like "Ichigo Kurosaki Jones" That's just my opinion though, not really necessary here from what I've seen, but still a great thread. Btw, I'm quite tired while writing this because I was out from 7:30 to 9:45 so sorry if my post is too repetitive, or ranty.