Everything You Know about Anime Is Wrong

[Rodrigo Girao]

[ quotes all of huge OP post ]

[ one line reply ]

...seriously?

 

[Arina Love]

Been otaku for 7 years and it's an article for novice hardly a letter for fellow anime-otaku. Every point is well known for anime watcher 2+ years, so sensationalist headline "Everything you know about anime is wrong" is just immature, offensive and stupid. I appreciate article but tone down you ego and don't assume everyone is wrong.

And yet you still call yourself an otaku, which is an insult that nobody should be self identifying by. Just sayin'.

otaku is insult? ha, it's just what normal people use it to identify us, and i for one is proud of that word. If you really know this word, you would know that there is camp that proud of these word. Yes I'm an anime-figure-game-otaku, otaku is not insult. otaku CAN be used as insult in convo between normal people, but when two anime watchers are speaking it becomes normal word, i have many japanese otaku friends who openly refer to themselves as otaku in out everyday talk. know your stuff mate,Just sayin'.

No, an otaku is a social recluse who doesn't bathe and lives in filth.

Have a conversation with a Japanese person and identify yourself as an otaku see where it gets you, especially if you're proud of the fact.


Another example of non-Japanese people using the language completely incorrectly.

no it's not, yes there is still people that think that but majority is not.

Otaku is the honorific word of Taku (home).

Otaku is extremely negative in meaning as it is used to refer to someone who stays at home all the time and doesn't have a life (no social life, no love life, etc).

It essentially means you care only for anime/videogame etc at the expense of all social interaction.

It is indeed considered a negative character trait inside Japan.

outdated info is outdated. Otaku is now something equivalent to a geek it's not bears heavy social stigma anymore. So word formation is irrelevant now.

Mate, my best friend is an English teacher in Japan and has been studying Japanese since he was 15. I had this conversation with him a few weeks ago.

Otaku carries negative connotations inside Japan.

Identify yourself as an anime/videogame enthusiast, just don't use the word otaku.

and i'm saying is ok to use word otaku among ourself anime enthusiasts because it's does not bear a stigma if you are insider. i have friends in japan too.

Well I'm more inclined to believe my friend, who works with Japanese people from all walks of life.

You may think the word carries no negative connotations within anime fandom, and they may be true.

But I doubt racists think the word racist carries negative connotations within groups of racists.

Not that I'm comparing the two, but applying the same kind of logic. To the average Japanese person, being an otaku is a bad thing.

and i'm believe my experience while staying in Japan.
and whay you want to have conversation about anime with average Japanese person? if you absolutely have to simple "i'm interested in anime" would be more than enough.
But when in conversation with fellow anime watcher is just simple to refer to myself as otaku, to indicate on what level our convo should be, by identifying myself as otaku i giving acknowledgement that i can keep up with conversation of my fellow otaku. and if you hardcore in more than one it helps too. like i do "i'm anime-game-figure otaku" that means i have handle "hardcore" conversation about this topics.

This isn't about 'otaku not being a bad word for anime watchers', this is 'otaku still carries a social stigma is normal Japanese society.'

Way to 180 degree turn on your argument.

yes it's is about that, because of this.

Identify yourself as an anime/videogame enthusiast, just don't use the word otaku.

i will Identify myself as otaku, and your suggestion is flawed for reasons i stated.

and yes otaku bears the stigma but not as heavy as in past more and more people is OK with otaku word being "person really really in to something"

 

[spartan231490]

Yeah, to say that Anime and american cartoons are equal is simply not true. It is a matter of opinion, and they have some very distinct differences. My problem with American cartoons is that very few, if any, of them have a overarcing stories that gets advanced in every episode. Most anime does. I can't stand the episodic unrelated 'stuff' that is american cartoons unless it's a pure comedy like south park or family guy.

There is a legitimate reason that to me, almost all anime are better than almost all American cartoons, invalidating your blanket statement that they are equal. Is anime objectively "better" no, but "better" isn't really an objective term.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Been otaku for 7 years and it's an article for novice hardly a letter for fellow anime-otaku. Every point is well known for anime watcher 2+ years, so sensationalist headline "Everything you know about anime is wrong" is just immature, offensive and stupid. I appreciate article but tone down you ego and don't assume everyone is wrong.

And yet you still call yourself an otaku, which is an insult that nobody should be self identifying by. Just sayin'.

otaku is insult? ha, it's just what normal people use it to identify us, and i for one is proud of that word. If you really know this word, you would know that there is camp that proud of these word. Yes I'm an anime-figure-game-otaku, otaku is not insult. otaku CAN be used as insult in convo between normal people, but when two anime watchers are speaking it becomes normal word, i have many japanese otaku friends who openly refer to themselves as otaku in out everyday talk. know your stuff mate,Just sayin'.

No, an otaku is a social recluse who doesn't bathe and lives in filth.

Have a conversation with a Japanese person and identify yourself as an otaku see where it gets you, especially if you're proud of the fact.


Another example of non-Japanese people using the language completely incorrectly.

no it's not, yes there is still people that think that but majority is not.

Otaku is the honorific word of Taku (home).

Otaku is extremely negative in meaning as it is used to refer to someone who stays at home all the time and doesn't have a life (no social life, no love life, etc).

It essentially means you care only for anime/videogame etc at the expense of all social interaction.

It is indeed considered a negative character trait inside Japan.

outdated info is outdated. Otaku is now something equivalent to a geek it's not bears heavy social stigma anymore. So word formation is irrelevant now.

Mate, my best friend is an English teacher in Japan and has been studying Japanese since he was 15. I had this conversation with him a few weeks ago.

Otaku carries negative connotations inside Japan.

Identify yourself as an anime/videogame enthusiast, just don't use the word otaku.

and i'm saying is ok to use word otaku among ourself anime enthusiasts because it's does not bear a stigma if you are insider. i have friends in japan too.

Well I'm more inclined to believe my friend, who works with Japanese people from all walks of life.

You may think the word carries no negative connotations within anime fandom, and they may be true.

But I doubt racists think the word racist carries negative connotations within groups of racists.

Not that I'm comparing the two, but applying the same kind of logic. To the average Japanese person, being an otaku is a bad thing.

and i'm believe my experience while staying in Japan.
and whay you want to have conversation about anime with average Japanese person? if you absolutely have to simple "i'm interested in anime" would be more than enough.
But when in conversation with fellow anime watcher is just simple to refer to myself as otaku, to indicate on what level our convo should be, by identifying myself as otaku i giving acknowledgement that i can keep up with conversation of my fellow otaku. and if you hardcore in more than one it helps too. like i do "i'm anime-game-figure otaku" that means i have handle "hardcore" conversation about this topics.

This isn't about 'otaku not being a bad word for anime watchers', this is 'otaku still carries a social stigma is normal Japanese society.'

Way to 180 degree turn on your argument.

yes it's is about that, because of this.

Identify yourself as an anime/videogame enthusiast, just don't use the word otaku.

i will Identify myself as otaku, and your suggestion is flawed for reasons i stated.

What? If asked by a Japanese person what your interests are, you refer to yourself as an anime enthusiast, not an otaku, because otaku carries negative connotations in Japanese society. How is that flawed exactly?

I don't care what you call yourself, but to pretend that otaku means something other than it does is just ridiculous.

It's like me pretending that being a member of the Klu Klux Klan doesn't make me a racist, it makes me a person who likes to dress as a ghost. Nobody is going to see it that way.

 

[Arina Love]

Been otaku for 7 years and it's an article for novice hardly a letter for fellow anime-otaku. Every point is well known for anime watcher 2+ years, so sensationalist headline "Everything you know about anime is wrong" is just immature, offensive and stupid. I appreciate article but tone down you ego and don't assume everyone is wrong.

And yet you still call yourself an otaku, which is an insult that nobody should be self identifying by. Just sayin'.

otaku is insult? ha, it's just what normal people use it to identify us, and i for one is proud of that word. If you really know this word, you would know that there is camp that proud of these word. Yes I'm an anime-figure-game-otaku, otaku is not insult. otaku CAN be used as insult in convo between normal people, but when two anime watchers are speaking it becomes normal word, i have many japanese otaku friends who openly refer to themselves as otaku in out everyday talk. know your stuff mate,Just sayin'.

No, an otaku is a social recluse who doesn't bathe and lives in filth.

Have a conversation with a Japanese person and identify yourself as an otaku see where it gets you, especially if you're proud of the fact.


Another example of non-Japanese people using the language completely incorrectly.

no it's not, yes there is still people that think that but majority is not.

Otaku is the honorific word of Taku (home).

Otaku is extremely negative in meaning as it is used to refer to someone who stays at home all the time and doesn't have a life (no social life, no love life, etc).

It essentially means you care only for anime/videogame etc at the expense of all social interaction.

It is indeed considered a negative character trait inside Japan.

outdated info is outdated. Otaku is now something equivalent to a geek it's not bears heavy social stigma anymore. So word formation is irrelevant now.

Mate, my best friend is an English teacher in Japan and has been studying Japanese since he was 15. I had this conversation with him a few weeks ago.

Otaku carries negative connotations inside Japan.

Identify yourself as an anime/videogame enthusiast, just don't use the word otaku.

and i'm saying is ok to use word otaku among ourself anime enthusiasts because it's does not bear a stigma if you are insider. i have friends in japan too.

Well I'm more inclined to believe my friend, who works with Japanese people from all walks of life.

You may think the word carries no negative connotations within anime fandom, and they may be true.

But I doubt racists think the word racist carries negative connotations within groups of racists.

Not that I'm comparing the two, but applying the same kind of logic. To the average Japanese person, being an otaku is a bad thing.

and i'm believe my experience while staying in Japan.
and whay you want to have conversation about anime with average Japanese person? if you absolutely have to simple "i'm interested in anime" would be more than enough.
But when in conversation with fellow anime watcher is just simple to refer to myself as otaku, to indicate on what level our convo should be, by identifying myself as otaku i giving acknowledgement that i can keep up with conversation of my fellow otaku. and if you hardcore in more than one it helps too. like i do "i'm anime-game-figure otaku" that means i have handle "hardcore" conversation about this topics.

This isn't about 'otaku not being a bad word for anime watchers', this is 'otaku still carries a social stigma is normal Japanese society.'

Way to 180 degree turn on your argument.

yes it's is about that, because of this.

Identify yourself as an anime/videogame enthusiast, just don't use the word otaku.

i will Identify myself as otaku, and your suggestion is flawed for reasons i stated.

What? If asked by a Japanese person what your interests are, you refer to yourself as an anime enthusiast, not an otaku, because otaku carries negative connotation is Japanese society. How is that flawed exactly?

I don't care what you call yourself, but to pretend that otaku means something other than it does is just ridiculous.

It's like me pretending that being a member of the Klu Klux Klan doesn't make me a racist, it makes me a person who likes to dress as a ghost.

did you even read what i write ?
read this more carefully and give it another thought, clearly you didn't last time around.


"and i'm believe my experience while staying in Japan.
and whay you want to have conversation about anime with average Japanese person? if you absolutely have to simple "i'm interested in anime" would be more than enough.
But when in conversation with fellow anime watcher is just simple to refer to myself as otaku, to indicate on what level our convo should be, by identifying myself as otaku i giving acknowledgement that i can keep up with conversation of my fellow otaku. and if you hardcore in more than one it helps too. like i do "i'm anime-game-figure otaku" that means i have handle "hardcore" conversation about this topics."

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Been otaku for 7 years and it's an article for novice hardly a letter for fellow anime-otaku. Every point is well known for anime watcher 2+ years, so sensationalist headline "Everything you know about anime is wrong" is just immature, offensive and stupid. I appreciate article but tone down you ego and don't assume everyone is wrong.

And yet you still call yourself an otaku, which is an insult that nobody should be self identifying by. Just sayin'.

otaku is insult? ha, it's just what normal people use it to identify us, and i for one is proud of that word. If you really know this word, you would know that there is camp that proud of these word. Yes I'm an anime-figure-game-otaku, otaku is not insult. otaku CAN be used as insult in convo between normal people, but when two anime watchers are speaking it becomes normal word, i have many japanese otaku friends who openly refer to themselves as otaku in out everyday talk. know your stuff mate,Just sayin'.

No, an otaku is a social recluse who doesn't bathe and lives in filth.

Have a conversation with a Japanese person and identify yourself as an otaku see where it gets you, especially if you're proud of the fact.


Another example of non-Japanese people using the language completely incorrectly.

no it's not, yes there is still people that think that but majority is not.

Otaku is the honorific word of Taku (home).

Otaku is extremely negative in meaning as it is used to refer to someone who stays at home all the time and doesn't have a life (no social life, no love life, etc).

It essentially means you care only for anime/videogame etc at the expense of all social interaction.

It is indeed considered a negative character trait inside Japan.

outdated info is outdated. Otaku is now something equivalent to a geek it's not bears heavy social stigma anymore. So word formation is irrelevant now.

Mate, my best friend is an English teacher in Japan and has been studying Japanese since he was 15. I had this conversation with him a few weeks ago.

Otaku carries negative connotations inside Japan.

Identify yourself as an anime/videogame enthusiast, just don't use the word otaku.

and i'm saying is ok to use word otaku among ourself anime enthusiasts because it's does not bear a stigma if you are insider. i have friends in japan too.

Well I'm more inclined to believe my friend, who works with Japanese people from all walks of life.

You may think the word carries no negative connotations within anime fandom, and they may be true.

But I doubt racists think the word racist carries negative connotations within groups of racists.

Not that I'm comparing the two, but applying the same kind of logic. To the average Japanese person, being an otaku is a bad thing.

and i'm believe my experience while staying in Japan.
and whay you want to have conversation about anime with average Japanese person? if you absolutely have to simple "i'm interested in anime" would be more than enough.
But when in conversation with fellow anime watcher is just simple to refer to myself as otaku, to indicate on what level our convo should be, by identifying myself as otaku i giving acknowledgement that i can keep up with conversation of my fellow otaku. and if you hardcore in more than one it helps too. like i do "i'm anime-game-figure otaku" that means i have handle "hardcore" conversation about this topics.

This isn't about 'otaku not being a bad word for anime watchers', this is 'otaku still carries a social stigma is normal Japanese society.'

Way to 180 degree turn on your argument.

yes it's is about that, because of this.

Identify yourself as an anime/videogame enthusiast, just don't use the word otaku.

i will Identify myself as otaku, and your suggestion is flawed for reasons i stated.

What? If asked by a Japanese person what your interests are, you refer to yourself as an anime enthusiast, not an otaku, because otaku carries negative connotation is Japanese society. How is that flawed exactly?

I don't care what you call yourself, but to pretend that otaku means something other than it does is just ridiculous.

It's like me pretending that being a member of the Klu Klux Klan doesn't make me a racist, it makes me a person who likes to dress as a ghost.

did you even read what i write ?
read this more carefully and give it another thought, clearly you didn't last time around.


"and i'm believe my experience while staying in Japan.
and whay you want to have conversation about anime with average Japanese person? if you absolutely have to simple "i'm interested in anime" would be more than enough.
But when in conversation with fellow anime watcher is just simple to refer to myself as otaku, to indicate on what level our convo should be, by identifying myself as otaku i giving acknowledgement that i can keep up with conversation of my fellow otaku. and if you hardcore in more than one it helps too. like i do "i'm anime-game-figure otaku" that means i have handle "hardcore" conversation about this topics."

Considering I'm having difficulty deciphering half the stuff you wrote, I think I can be forgiven for 'not getting the point.'

 

[gigastar]

Well id hate to sound like a presumptous twat, but its kind of unavoidable that i knew all of everything the OP stated.

If this was brought to me last year, it would have been a different story on thinking that anime was the shit in Japan, but then i started exploring animes outside the popular shows and found Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. A series i fell in love with for black comedy, and actually payed full painstaking attention to when i picked up on its insights into Japanese culture.

No points for guessing what i found out. Plus the anti-fanservice movements going on in Japan at the time helped me along to setting the idea in my head.

And i never held western animation to be automatically worse than Japanese anime. I hold western animations that fall foul of Animation Age Ghetto to be automatically worse than anime, but of course not every western animated show falls foul of it.

Past that i just have high standards, but i still have western animations i would rather watch than some animes.

Though its worth mentioning that the art styles in anime were more varied than i thought. And ive watched all of Studio Shaft's and Studio Gainax's productions.

Spoiler: And now just because i feel like it im leaving my favorite anime OP under here

Its the final OP sequence for Zan Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei Bangachi. Ive yet to find anything more twisted.

 

[Gomi500]

I very much enjoyed the read. And surprised to knoe that the stuff I knew about anime was right. So yah I already knew this stuff. But yeah good read mate.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

snip

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with unrealistic characters in general (I watch more American cartoons than I do anime, for Pete's sake), it's just that there was something I liked about the older style. I don't think realism should be the ultimate goal of any medium, but when you're trying to tell a serious story, I kind of like to see serious character designs, you know? That's why I don't begrudge Shonen series descended from things like DBZ and Hokuto no Ken their flamboyant designs; the characters are pretty much superheros anyway, may as well let 'em be colorful. But when the premise of the show is ordinary people in extraordinary situations (which describes most fiction in general, let alone anime), a little bit of realism in the character designs is not a bad thing.

Lack of clarity on my part. Wasn't specifically targeting you, but your mention of Realism in conjunction with Animation struck a nerve. Always does, so nothing personal

As it is implied (i hope) in my response to your first comment, I have a passion towards Anime, though specifically animation in general. I love the variety that Animation promotes from the abstract to the freakishly life like, but I hold the sentiment that Animation best mirrors reality when it let's go of "realistic" constraints.

But even then, I could question what your definition of "realistic" is in terms of anatomy but that's just being semantic. I get what you mean and I understand that it fits in some cases. I also have my own reservations about contemporary Anime. Too much cookie cutter productions... it's as bad as American teen dramas at this point.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

 

[Arina Love]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

Edit: I guess I could go with "pedophile," instead of "racist," but that /would/ be on a different plane of social stigma than "otaku." In the west, we dislike racists, but we kind of accept that they exist and a good proportion of the population is made up of closeted racists themselves. With pedophiles, pretty much the only ones who take their side are other pedophiles; even hardened criminals don't like child molesters, which is why you always hear people saying to put them in the general population and let the other prisoners sort them out. On the other end of the spectrum, "I'm gay" would be too /weak/ of a stigma to compare it to, since homophobia is about where racism was in the 1980's now; in transition between being accepted and being unacceptable, with even hardcore gay bashers not wanting to say anything to a homosexual's face, even while they try to get legislation passed to prevent gays and lesbians from getting the rights that everyone else enjoys.

 

[TheBaron87]

For anyone that thinks all anime is "anime," give this just 20 minutes of your time. If it didn't have the visual style you would never believe it was made in Japan. It's something between Quentin Tarantino and classic film noir. Keep in mind this is the fifth episode, if it interests you watch the whole series (only 26 episodes) and you'll figure out what it's all about.
Not everything that comes out of Japan is the same, and yes, most of it is garbage. Sturgeon's Law and all that. The same could be said about most of western television. If you were to pull an anime out of the hat chances are good you would end up with a turd, but that doesn't mean gems don't exist.

If you want another series with a fantasy/steampunk setting that respects the intelligence of the viewer, while tugging on heartstrings in a very natural and extremely well-written way, watch Last Exile. The whole series is free to watch on Funimation's Youtube channel! http://www.youtube.com/show?p=Y3frLFN1w3I

If you want something with a lot more action and don't mind sci-fi that takes a few liberties playing with the idea of transhumanism, watch Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xezg5i_ghost-in-the-shell-sac-2nd-gig-op_shortfilms

None of these fall into what the average person thinks of when they hear "anime."

BONUS!!! All three of these series have really good English dubbing. That's when you know you've got something special.

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

Dude, you're a genius. I hope you have a blog to post this on, more people need to read this.

I saw enough anime with my girl to know that I'll never like it.

No you didn't.

 

[Arina Love]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

 

[den0008]

Interesting read...pity I already knew most of it.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Actually, you just gave me my analogy: it's not like saying you're a nerd. It's like saying you're a neckbeard.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Alright then. . . give me an example of a japanese manga that is similar to Watchmen or Hellboy. Or an anime that is similar to I can't think of any meaningful western animation series/movies. Because I left all animations besides humorous ones behind some years back. I used to be a bit of an anime fan, watching Naruto and .Hack and before that dragon ball z and pokemon. Hell I even watched one of those sappy love anime's that never goes anywhere. I'd love to see if that medium I left in a ditch has changed to my liking.

Oh wait! I just rememberd Akira and Ghost in the Shell. Still, I still see a distinction between the two. A fundemental difference that I just can't pinpoint. I don't know why but since I started ignoring it it has never turned around and said something meaningful to make me pay attention again. I think it's just because of me being western and therefore tending to like western stuff. And you'll always get resistance to something from another culture that did not originate in the culture we're in. 'S great tho that we can discuss this and mingle cultures though, huh?

I haven't watched/read either series, so this may be a superficial assessment, but Hellsing seems to be pretty similar to Hell Boy. In Hellsing, a vampire is captured and forced to work for an organization that fights supernatural things that normal government organizations can't handle. Hell Boy has the same premise, except substitute "demon is raised" for "vampire is captured and forced."

As for The Watchmen, that's not likely to have a direct equivalent in anime or manga, but it's because it was a deconstruction of a very American phenomenon (costumed super hero comics of the type published by Marvel and DC.) If you want to see a groundbreaking anime that did that, check out Mobile Suit Gundam, although you'll need to do a fair bit of cultural research to understand exactly why it was groundbreaking at the time (today, it's well done but not exactly an unheard of concept.) If you just want something that goes the 90's grimdark comic book route, I'd start looking for recommendations from people who have read a lot more Seinen than I have, because that's the genre of manga that you'd find something like that in. And speaking of Seinen, if you like the kind of black and white comics that were coming out of the West in the 80's (think Cerebus the Aardvark, Heavy Metal, the original run of TMNT -- you know, the independent stuff) check out Berserk. If I hadn't known it was Japanese going in, I would have mistaken it for some long lost underground comic, and I mean that as a complement.

snip

As for what I'm getting from you, I guess my information /could/ be outdated... but then I remember that Japanese woman who joined these forums a while back to angrily tell everyone here what I just told you, in English that was broken enough and in believable enough ways that I'm pretty sure she really was Japanese. The "I'm a racist" analogy is actually a good one here: sure, other racists won't mind, but the public at large /will/, and you wouldn't go around telling people "hi, my name is X, and I'm a racist." That is literally what I see people who self describe themselves as Otaku doing; they don't make sure they're talking to a fellow nerd first, they use it as a descriptive term when someone asks them what they're into.

Comparing otaku to racist in not viable analogy because social stigma is very different and racism is a hate crime. otaku is equivalent of a geek, yes some people think that geeks are shut-ins, but majority is quite ok with word geek, same with otaku.

We're talking about the depth of the stigma, though. I honestly can't think of any other group in western culture to compare it to; we've become so accepting of others that the only thing anyone is allowed to openly hate is hatred.

nerds/geeks will be close it almost have same social stigma as otaku. if you think that every normal Japanese openly hate otaku then you are wrong, most people especially new generation don't think of a otaku in bad way, yes there is still people hating geeks\nerds and otaku but not as many as you think.

Again, you're missing what the word otaku actually means.

Yes, it does mean geek, but that's not why the word carries negative connotations.

It means you like anime/video game to the exclusion of everything else.

When Japanese people hear the word otaku, they don't think 'oh hey, that guy likes anime' they think, 'holy shit, this guy doesn't bathe and never leaves the house'.