Extra Credits: No Redeeming Value

[saintchristopher]

I actually made this point months ago on the boards, but everyone thought I was just "over-analyzing" a game that aspires to be nothing more than "mindless violence."

I'm so glad at the end of the video you articulated what I was then unable to: If we're going to take this stuff seriously, then we HAVE to analyze it. Also, I think it has to be said that at this point in the history of gaming criticism, there is NO SUCH THING as over-analysis. There simply isn't enough being said to qualify as regular analysis, let alone over-analysis. The works of Shakespeare are over-analyzed. Why? Because they've been written about for nigh-on 400 years! Compared with that, gaming criticism hasn't even begun!

 

[Tipsy Giant]

http://screwattack.com/user/Daniel-Floyd/videos

BOOM!

Ah, that was it. Much thanks.

No Probs Cap'n

 

[Soviet Heavy]

It could be that the trilogy itself is a kind of meta-greek tragedy. We have a great first game, it goes on to become something that loses it's original flare in the second game because it was overdoing the stuff that made it good in the first place, and in the third game the series is reduced to blind pointless self destruction.

Or something like that.

Thats actually a brilliant analogy. And it fits in with the three pillars of tragedy perfectly. GOW1 is the high point, GOW2 is where it succumbs to rage, and GOW3 is where it is left a husk of its original self.

If there was a reputation meter here, I'd give you bonus points.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I'm not trying to dictate your opinion. And you gave no indication that you've seen the source material.

Hmm. I see the poor choice of wording on my part now (one important word got omitted in my haste), and I will correct this.
I didn't bother to FINISH the series, because it bored me.

I apologize for the animosity, but I honestly wasn't trying to flame-bait.

 

[Citrus]

I don't know how you guys talked so much about God of War III's ending without acknowledging that he killed himself. Don't get me wrong; you made some good points (I really hated the whole "hope is what makes us strong" thing as well) but Kratos knowing that he is beyond redemption and killing himself for it counts for something.

Also, does anybody think Athena's part in the game was really dumb? I mean, "You killed me, and now I am of a higher existence." What? So wouldn't all of the Gods he killed become of a higher existence? What does that even mean?

 

[Mouse_Crouse]

I must say I truly appreciate this series for all that it does for intelligent conversation for my favorite pastime. The well thought out points and meaningful conversation is very refreshing. Having said all of that I was sitting there enjoying all of the well constructed thoughts, and the Matrix "OMG Lag" picture came up and I totally lost it. I didn't hear ANY of the rest of the video because I was laughing so hard. And I had to go back to tell what was said. This in no way distracted from the quality of the video, just though I would mention how well you guys have been illustrating your point.

 

[Grahav]

Ah, so that's how the plot was turned from Odyssey to Carmaggendon

 

[BlumiereBleck]

kratos is still the worst video game protangnist....he killed Hades.....FLIPPIN HADES and all he was trying to do was to put kratos in his place...like did no God or Goddess think "Hey he killed Aries should we do something about it for say uhhh killing him all at once?"

 

[Stabby Joe]

I didn't hold the story against the game so much as this video does considering I just wanted to slay the pantheon and them some.

Does that mean I didn't notice the shifts in narrative? No, I love games with a great narratives but I don't dislike ones that don't either unless the gameplay is up to standard, in God of War's case, it was top-notch.

This must be one of the first videos with a noticeable disagreement from users. Regardless of my views this is still a great and interesting video. Good job.

 

[Lullabye]

I agree that GOW could have been an amazing story. It may not be perfect, far from it actually, but I really did like it. I mean, I liked how Kratos totally disregarded the advice and morals every single person tried to force on him. It showed he wasn't just some basic character with a goal so weak a mere plea of forgiveness could turn him around. Most of all I absolutely loved how he killed all those gods. It's the first time I've seen it done in a story but then, i don't read alot of greek god oriented stories so... Still, it usually boils down to "gods are all powerful, know better than we do etc" or "gods are people to, and have their flaws, so we should forgive them, etc". In the end, I appreciate GOW for siding with me in it's idea of how to actually deal with douchebag deities. No forgiveness, no mercy, no awe and worship. Just death.

 

[Mr. Blik]

so...intelligent....

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

two things.

1. God of war isn't really a story driven game. It's about playing as a dude that kills gods. I'm pretty sure the story revolves around giving you the opportunity to do so.

2. I would say that Kratos is definitely extremely remorseful at the end of GoW 3. You seem to have left off the fact that

Spoiler

he kills himself at the end.

Not that it really takes much away from the argument as a whole, just sort of that one point.

 

[Therumancer]

I think "God Of War" is pretty much what happens when you have game design dictated by committee and focus groups to be entirely honest. The sad thing is that it sold well, and that is just going to encourage more of the same.

You'll notice that right now a decent number of games try and sell themselves on being banal "meh, who wants to mess around with anything else, when you could be smashing stuff?".

I agree with the general message of this week's "Extra Credit", however I don't think we can entirely blame the industry for this. All the data those people are catering to comes from the gamers themselves, as gaming has become mainstream, the effort spent on the backround, storyline, and similar things has been increasingly wasted and I think game designers are realizing this. As a result you see games actually regressing with each installment like "God Of War" did, another very notable example is Bioware with "Mass Effect 2" rather than making an even deeper RPG experience, they stripped the mechanics way down... granted the storyline remained fairly deep, but the game itself became dumber.

A lot of people tend to view the conflict within the gaming community as between "Hardcore" gamers and "Casual" gamers. I don't see that as being especially accurate, since by definition games like "God Of War" and "Modern Warfare" would fall into many people's definition of hardcore. I think what we're dealing with is a less politically correct seperation between "smart" gamers and "dumb" gamers, with more and more of the latter
coming into the hobby due to the low bar set by the common human denominator as the gaming population increases, and less and less actual intelligence and talent is neeeded to learn how to play.

Before anyone freaks, look at "God Of War". To begin with we started with what can arguably be called a "Greek Tradgedy" as was explained (even if that is not the term I would use). It had a fairly meaningful storyline full of subtext and the development of a one dimensional character. As the new game generation arrived and more people got involved, people cared less about the subtext and just killing stuff, as a result the audience itself turned the series itself into the equivilent of Pro-Wrestling. That is the spectacle of over the top and ridiculous similated violence, held together by a non-plot that exists only to frame and excuse for more violence.... and honestly, people have talked about some of Kratos' dialogue in response to scenes with Athena and the like, if you really think about it both what he says and how he acts is pretty much identical to what one would expect from a pro-wrestler in a "B league" with low standards for everything except the choreography itself.

This is simply my opinion, apologies to those who are offended, but I call it like I see it.

 

[midpipps]

Did you pay any attention to the video? That's the point - there is potential for games to tell equal if not better stories than film and literature. I can think of several games off the top of my head whose stories I still remember more vividly than most of the films I've seen this year, with the exception of Scott Pilgrim and Inception. For example, Bioshock, Morrowind, Final Fantasy VI and VII, the first God of War (even before watching this video), Star Ocean II, etc. Because I was involved with the storyline on a more intrinsic level than simply reading or watching it unfold, it was more meaningful to me and has stuck with me.

I can only hope that developers don't have this same attitude of "let's never even bother with storylines in our games because what's the fucking point". If there's no point in attempting to have decent storytelling in your game, every game in each genre might as well be identical.

I didn't say there isn't potential. There IS. But you can't expect a game designer to come up with a cool idea and excellent storyline. Because you'll end up with shit. As I said there ARE exceptions, and I have enjoyed the stories in many games, but I could hardly call them literary masterpieces, and if you do, you delude yourself.

In order for games to achieve your ideal storytelling the devs will have to pay a professional writer/storyteller to write the script. And that costs money. And thus won't EVER happen, at least in the immediate future. Why? Because that's money they need to make your game graphically superior than the next. See the problem with the industry and it's struggle to pretend that it is mature?

And I'm sorry, but I play games for fun, because no amount of story and excellent script will keep me on my chair if the game itself is a bore. Face it, in gaming what matter is the game, the content. Stories and scripts are secondary, unless you're basing a game just around that concept (e.g. a point&click adventure game)

Regardless, let me say once again...as I've said in every Extra Credits thread, this is the best series on the escapist. It really is.

Erm...no it's not. It's views are too narrow or too elaborate, seemingly made to stroke the ego of the hardcore gamer. In that respect I believe it succeeds, especially judging by the posts I see.

I will have to respectfully disagree with you. I will sit through a game that has some of the worst controls as long as the story is good enough, such as Fragile. I truly do hope that more game developers have an idea of the story they would like to tell when they start down the path of creating a new game otherwise they may as well toss the story out and just make a fun game with graphics and mechanics.

I have played my fair share of marios or sonics etc etc. with little to no story at all other then go here save this. But if I have a choice I will take a game with worse controls and worse graphics that tells a great story. I am pretty sure I am not the only one that feels this way either.

As for playing a game to have fun. Fun is different person to person. My idea of fun is an engaging story that keeps me on the edge of my seat wondering what is going to happen next or how my actions are effecting the outcome.

As for the series being the best on the escapist I would probably agree and disagree to certain degrees. This series best points are that it tosses out ideas that gets many users engaged in discussions. So in that respect I think it is probably the best series. Now while I do find it entertaining I do think some other series may have more humor and such to make them take that category.

 

[Canadian Briton]

This is becoming among my favourite series on the escapist. Keep it up!

 

[Cherry Cola]

I don't know how you guys talked so much about God of War III's ending without acknowledging that he killed himself. Don't get me wrong; you made some good points (I really hated the whole "hope is what makes us strong" thing as well) but Kratos knowing that he is beyond redemption and killing himself for it counts for something.

Also, does anybody think Athena's part in the game was really dumb? I mean, "You killed me, and now I am of a higher existence." What? So wouldn't all of the Gods he killed become of a higher existence? What does that even mean?

He doesn't kill himself because he is beyond redemption. He kills himself so that mankind can gain the power of hope and grow independent of Gods.

Which I consider to be very out of character

 

[Naheal]

Is there any chance I could get a JPG of the "you fail" ribbon?

 

[Naheal]

Is there any chance I can get a JPG of the "You fail" ribbon?