Extra Credits: No Redeeming Value

[Wolfram23]

So THAT's why people were so excited about GoW! Hah I never had a PS2 so I never did play GoW 1 or 2. But having a PS3, I figured the 3rd installment would be sweet and epic. Well, sure it had epicness in the bossfighting and such but boy was it ever retarded. I didn't like it much.

 

[Mikeyfell]

even though I appreciate the intention behind this video I felt like you were nit-picking on a good series of games while ignoring a serious problem with gaming as a whole. Harping on the lack of good storytelling in God Of War is fine but when I saw the title of this episode was "No Redeeming Value" I thought (or hoped more like) that you were going to talk about the F.P.S genera and how it needs to grow up and stop being the well selling cancer that's killing gaming slowly but surely. this is what passes for storytelling in a first person shooter; "You are (insert alignment here), they are (insert opposite alignment here). shoot them." The only character trait that makes the player character stand out is the ability to press X to open door, or press X to download files. you mentioned that God of War was fun to play which, to me made up for a lot of its shortcomings. No first person shooter has that going for it. move to cover snipe one or two guys and move to another cover before they throw a grenade at you. There I told you how to beat any firefight in any game on any difficulty. And since F.P.S's are nothing but firefights game-play gets repetitive quickly. and it starts repetitive because You've played a first person shooter before. I have not played one since Half-life 2 that took me more than 6 hours to finish. and these games still sell because of some incredibly monotonous online multi-player. If these F.P.S's keep selling all gaming will morph into the same boring firefight a billion times. If you care about gaming at all stop buying first person shooters. I can assure you 100% that Call of Duty: Black Ops is going to be six more hours of Modern Warfare. and that Halo: Reach is going to be six more hours of Halo 3 Just like Halo: ODST was and just like Halo 3 Was six more hours of Halo 2. Now I'm not telling you what to like, I'm telling you to say enough is enough. If you keep buying the same game over and over and over again you will never see a good game ever again. so PLEASE demand more out of a game than a billion of the same god damn firefights strung together with bad voice-acting and worse writing. PLEASE I'M BEGGING YOU.

Now before you ask, I had fun playing Modern Warfare 2.... six hours of fun, then some frustrating in a good way fun with some of the special ops missions. But I have no desire to go back and play it again. If I had payed for it I'd want my money back. "You could say that about any game" you say why would you buy or download a movie if you didn't want to experience it again and again. Go back in time to the days of the PS2. Do you remember a game called Jak 2. now I could go on for hours about why that game is awesome, but I want to talk about why I played it through so many times. I cared about the main cast of NPC's and there was a clear reason for you to do everything you had to do. If a first person shooter ever had a memorable cast of NPC's and a story that fleshed out, (or at least fleshed out enough to ensure more than 6 hours of game-play) it would be amazing, and it might matter when they kill off my character. Even in newer games, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, or Alpha Protocol can be boiled down to the same fight over and over again, But those games let you personalize the experience on every play-through. And yet they don't receive anywhere near as much recognition as the bland repetitive completely stupid games where the uninteresting army man is shooting at the same terrorist or alien for no adequately explainable reason from behind the same cover dodging the same grenades. and there's supposed to be some emotional response when (spoiler) my faceless character named Roach gets shot by the bad guy in a twist that I saw coming from the fucking third mission in the game. play real games like Beyond Good and Evil, Prince of Persia: the Sands of Time. or Psychonauts. at least until the FPS developers realize you won't take their crap anymore and put some fucking effort into their games.

 

[CronoT]

I personally enjoyed how this video ripped the GoW series a new one by pointing out the glaring flaws in the desire for ever bloodier spectacle destroyed any capacity for a fulfilling or competent story. The same things can be said, almost point for point, about the Saw movie series.

The first movie took the viewers on a ride, and messed with their perception of reality to the point where the climax and conclusion of the film came out of nowhere and skull f@#&ed them like no other movie had since Fight Club. Then, the sequels started coming out, and the shift from psychological twisting to just pure gore pandering happened almost immediately.

I think this sort of narrative style is the reason why there has never been a sequel or even an attempted sequel to Eternal Darkness. That game was so revolutionary in its approach to story, design, and psychological horror and atmosphere, a sequel would only tarnish what the original worked so hard to create. That's why; as Yahtzee likes to point out time after time, after Silent Hill 3, or even Silent Hill 2, the series was so watered down and formulaic, it was almost a parody of itself. The fourth game in the series wasn't even intended to be part of the series, and was forcibly retconned in about 3/4ths of the way through its production.

 

[Axolotl]

Also, does anybody think Athena's part in the game was really dumb? I mean, "You killed me, and now I am of a higher existence." What? So wouldn't all of the Gods he killed become of a higher existence? What does that even mean?

It means the writer really likes Star Wars.

 

[Mirrored Jigsaw]

I've agreed with you on almost every point I've heard you conjure, and while most of this episode is spot on as well, I have a serious problem with one argument; killing Zeus in first-person perspective in the end.

While it could have been done better, there was a reason for it other than just gore-nography. There is nothing that stops you from punching Zeus until you stop pressing the triggers, and I was left punching Zeus' face in for possibly over a minute.

Directly afterward, I realized that I could have stopped at any time. I felt like I was similar to Kratos in that I mindlessly attacked that which sat in front of me, without considering any options other than kill.

While I wasn't driven by the same reasons as Kratos, it still meant something to me, and something that couldn't be accomplished without that shift into first-person. It felt like a stroke genius surrounded by a pile of mediocre ideas masquerading as that feeling.

 

[Mirrored Jigsaw]

(I'm sorry, my original post didn't go through at first, and when I resubmitted the comment, it just doubled it. Please ignore this post.)

 

[Fox242]

Great points and a great video. However, I think that you are forgetting that there was a point to the third game other than having Kratos kill everything. He realizes that a world ruled by easily manipulated and emotional gods is not one worth living in. So when Athena demands that he give her the power of hope, he impales himself with the Blade of Olympus and releases hope into the world so that humanity can rebuild everything themselves. He is denying the gods their power over the world just like they denied him an end to his nightmares. That is why he says "My vengeance...ends now." His revenge against the gods is complete and now humanity can start anew. Sure it isn't as deep as GoW 1, but that doesn't mean that it is necessarily a bad story, or a bad game. In fact, GoW III is a sure thing to win a few GotY and PS3 GotY awards come the end of the year.

 

[Irridium]

You just stated why I hated the third games story so much.

When they started babbling on about hope and whatnot, my immediate reaction was "why the fuck are they reciting the answer to most crappy kids movies?" It was just stupid, and as they put it in, had no place in the story. If they actually handled it well, it might have been fine. But it could also create a disconnect between the third and second games.

The ending also pisses me off, especially the scene after the credits. So Kratos apparently kills himself by shoving the sword through himself. Fine, he realizes what a ruthless bastard he his and ends it for the good of whats left of mankind. But then after the credits it shows a blood-trail, most definitely Kratos', that leads away. This implies he actually survived and, to me, seems like it was done to keep a sequel potential open. This pissed me off immensely. He killed himself for everyone, he was finally able to rest. Yet that was completely undermined by the cutscene after the credits.

Some would say it was actually him jumping off the mountain, as a throwback to the first game. My response to that is why didn't they just show that instead of him plunging a sword through himself? It would have been a much better ending, and completely sealed the story and finished everything. But they didn't do that. And it pisses me off.

 

[Optimystic]

Wow...people play God of War for the storytelling...Seriously?

Without the story, you might as well be watching 1s and 0s march up and down your screen.

It could be that the trilogy itself is a kind of meta-greek tragedy. We have a great first game, it goes on to become something that loses it's original flare in the second game because it was overdoing the stuff that made it good in the first place, and in the third game the series is reduced to blind pointless self destruction.

Or something like that.

You, sir, just blew my mind.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

I'll agree that the redemption thing goes amiss for the story, but it kinda fits with the character's mentality, though. In his single moment of failure, he calls upon the God of War (Patron of Sparta, let us not forget) to destroy his enemies, and make him into what can more or less be described as the pinnacle of human physical combat. He vows to be the personal servant of Ares in exchange for beating down some barbarians, and Ares isn't exactly the kind of guy to have weak servants running around. The only time he feels remorse is when something close to him gets killed by an unfair means, which usually means his soldiers killed without being able to fight. Any highly militaristic commander would be equally upset, and would strike out with strength and ferocity against those that did him a wrong. The business with his family was the premise for his servitude to Athena, and the ending of his service to Ares.

When he runs the god through, though, you have to see it from his perspective. One of the most pugilistic societies had raised him to always want more, to always be the best, and to never fear any obstacle. A man like this with an entire nation of strong soldiers willing to follow him and fight for him has only a few options--living peacefully with everything isn't one of them. Suddenly, he's got power, and lots of it. He's got a host of god-given magics that he can call upon, the experience and title to make anyone around cower before the mere mention of his sandals, and nothing more important to do that reign over warfare. He alone had climbed to the top of the temple, solved and survived the puzzles, and ripped many beasts to shreds with his hands. And now, with all this power, he's got nothing to do.

So what would you do, with power bordering on the omnipotent, a spiffy new title after killing a god, and an entire army hanging about on your resume?

Well, you go fuck shit up, that's what. And, in lieu of anything more challenging or pressing, that's what Kratos does. He goes, unstoppable, with his ego burning hotter than the Prometheus pyre, and finds out he's not as all powerful as he thought. And, upon a quick saving grace from the Titans, he gets back up, unafraid, and has something else to do, now--fuck up something, someone, specific. It's the old "what do you do with your super soldiers when they thing they have to kill is now dead?" question, and it's the story of watching what happens when said super soldier has nothing to do.

So, while the story might not be the most award winning, it is still the story. With nothing else to really lose that matters personally to him, Kratos goes for his vengeance for removing him from his seat of power. Raw power, blind anger, an impressively vindictive intellect, and unimaginable cruelty (well, they did give us that second person kill, of watching him beat the shit out of the cameraPoseidon, so not unimaginable, I suppose) are the tools the man uses when he needs to get something done, and they are tools he's quite familiar with. By the second and third games, he's not seeking redemption, for he's come to understand that there is no redemption for him. And with that in hand, he goes to do what he does best--fuck shit up.

When he meets Pandora, he thinks he can use her as a scapegoat towards redemption, to no avail though. At the point of choice, where he could have redeemed himself, he got the bloodlust and began the process of opening up Zeus' face, releasing Pandora into the fire. He realizes there is not redemption, just personal satisfaction, and that's all he needs anymore. In his two moments of being nice, he tries to commit suicide, and is stopped both times. As for the gods...well, they were in his way. He removed them, as he knows best how to do. His entire function, from the time he was the captain of the army to the time he was painting the screen red was, point and fact, to be as brutal as possible in the execution of his duties. Without duty, all you have is, well...fucking shit up.

 

[Itsmemario]

kratos is still the worst video game protangnist....he killed Hades.....FLIPPIN HADES and all he was trying to do was to put kratos in his place...like did no God or Goddess think "Hey he killed Aries should we do something about it for say uhhh killing him all at once?"

Zeus does kill him in the GoW2, the titans bring him back to life then he seeks revenge... well he always seeks revenge but u get the point

Nicely put in perspective the story telling. I myself didn't really think much of the story when I played the games since I'm more into gameplay and platforming but quite right on the story. However the "plot" twists I found enjoyable yet I never pictured Kratos as a hero, it felt more of a game where you play the villan. I mean he was leading an army for the Ares and he slaughtered thousands just for his personal glory... what kind of a hero does that?

Good review

 

[Johnnyallstar]

I think that the biggest problem with the entire God of War series is simply the fact that it is a series. The point was made that God of War was a phenomenally done individual game. There was no shown intent to extend the IP, because it was a completely contained game in and of itself. Everything resolved.

But because of the evils of money and Sony DESPERATELY needed an iconic figure to stand next to Mario and M.Chief, they forced a continuation of a series which didn't need it. I'm not saying that #2 and #3 should never have happened, but I would dare argue that they detracted from the series more than what they put in.

 

[ReaperzXIII]

I think the game is being overanalysed a bit too much, when you overanalyse a story a bit too much you can make it seem either glorious or shit, in its basis God of War 1 is about Kratos who loves violence tricked into the thing he loves being used against him, blames that person for becoming exactly what he wanted to become the perfect warrior then realizes it brings him no freedom from his nightmares and tries to kill himself.

Warning wall o text in the spoiler

Spoiler

There is one thing abundantly clear in GoW1, Kratos is nothing but a self-serving jerk face who will not learn his lesson something empathized throughout the series. He isn't much deeper than: kill anything that moves against me.

If you overanalyse the narrative of the entire trilogy you can make them seem like the greatest exploration of part of the human psyche here goes:

Kratos a self-serving violent ego, in essence a mass of humanity's greatest flaw: greed and self-satisfaction, he kills to become a hero and the greatest warrior and when he is about to lose he is so willing to satisfy his needs he gives his soul to Aries to help him win. Aries tricks him into killing his family instead of realizing his wrongs he blames everything on Aries and tries to kill him thinking it will bring him peace. Wrong! Even after that he still has his nightmares and in another attempt to please himself he decides to kill himself and end the pain. Showing that we as humans, are so quick to blame others for our own deeds and instead of trying to change ourselves we would rather attack the thing we blame until we can no longer blame it.

This leaves us empty and in depression which leads us to God of War 2:

Kratos is made into a god and continues to satisfy his insatiable ego and by waging wars and causing mass destruction, he is punished for his misdemeanors again and instead of seeing where he is at fault he continues to instead blame others and goes on a series of more stress just to try and remove any blame from himself and fails to kill what he now believes to be someone who betrayed him.

Kratos, acting once again like a child engrosses himself in doing what pleasures him and not thinking about consequences as in God of War 1 failing to realize his lesson. Zeus in this picture plays the father role or the role of the friend, putting ourself in Kratos's shoes we were once his friend/ally but he sees what our hedonistic nature is doing to ourself and others steps in and confronts you, but in our innate stubborness refuse to accept it is out fault and think Zeus betrayed us and then blame all our troubles on Zeus.

Then in God of War 3 which is a continuation of our fall as a person it finally gets resolved, our grudge our betrayal then realize: hey it was none of their fault but it is only at death and with your dying breath tries to make it up to those you hurt.

It paints a moral story that it is only in death we truly see where we went wrong and Kratos was the extreme incarnate of all our flaws.

There I just made God of War seem like it has an in-depth understanding of the human psyche when in actuality it is a gore fest, stop overanalysing things you just take the fun out of it.

 

[WickedArtist]

I think "God Of War" is pretty much what happens when you have game design dictated by committee and focus groups to be entirely honest. The sad thing is that it sold well, and that is just going to encourage more of the same.

[snip]

I agree with the sentiment of your post.

For the most part, the industry tries to do smart business (though it doesn't always seem smart, but who am I to know?), and smart business is to do what sells. If consumers demanded better than the lowest common denominator, the money (still) in their pockets (and not in the hand of companies) would make all the difference. However, the industry isn't completely absolved of responsibility here. It certainly looks like some developers/publishers do a lot to encourage the lowest common denominator appeal, and worse: for all their high-and-mighty talk, many don't display much confidence that games can achieve anything better.

I wouldn't call it "smart" gaming or "dumb" gaming, and I certainly wouldn't give those labels to the players themselves. Some game players just play games for the sake of recreation and escapism. I see gaming as still largely an escapist medium. Some of these players could be incredibly intelligent people, and their reasons for consuming certain media may have nothing to do with that intelligence.

There's nothing necessarily wrong or dumb with wanting to consume shallower, more accessible media, just for the sake of fun and recreation and escapism. However, I do think that so long as there's a niche out there that looks for a deeper experience, there will also be someone who will try to cater for that niche.

 

[RogueLament]

We all know that God of War had a good storyline and God of War 3 had a bad storyline but (being a PS3 fanboy) I have to turn your attention to Halo, which only has a good storyline if you read the books. So is having one good storyline and 2 bad ones as bad as having no good ones with the possibility of being the best storyline of all time?

 

[Herr Wozzeck]

I love GoW III, don't get me wrong, but I find myself agreeing with a lot of the things this video says. I still haven't beaten GoW I (something I started fixing when I rented the GoW collection but I'll have to put on hold now that I have a laptop can run Mass Effect and its sequel), but I've gotten through enough of it to see the validity of the points. (Specifically, I was just about to open Pandora's Box when I stopped playing.) I look back to GoW III after that, and I can see their points.

But I also think GoW III is a narrative failure for other reasons. I felt there were all sorts of problems with the writing if you look at GoW III as a stand-alone game. For example, it was very easy to tell that the dev team had written themselves into a wall right from the outset (as Yahtzee pointed out in his review of the game). And yes, I noticed it, even though I had never played any game in the GoW franchise before that point. I also felt cheated that they didn't care to explain why he would have to open Pandora's Box again, especially when certain parts of GoW III continually stress that Kratos already opened the box. If you already opened the box, shouldn't you already have the power to kill a god? And he doesn't stop to think about it at all, which infuriates me a little more than the plot hole actually being there. It's a little egregious when your game wouldn't have a plot otherwise, too.

But otherwise, I like it quite a bit.