Extra Credits Takes a Stab at the Mass Effect 3 issues

[Jesse Billingsley]

I desperately hope Bioware doesn't overwrite what they've done. Not because I think it's perfect (I don't), but because they made an artistic choice.

No, fuck this, im done. Im never reading anything remotely related to EC again. I knew it was coming, I read it anyway, fuck this, fuck EC, fuck everything.

*Leaves tossing over random objects and kicking doors*

(Seriously though, I disagree. I knew EC would role out the pretentious artistic vision shit.)

Games critics defending "artistic integrity" blah blah blah is getting so fucking old.

Yeah, how DARE game critics want to treat games as a true art form? Shame on them for trying to treat the medium with a little bit of respect.

Oh who really gives a shit if games are art? People who care about it so much need to go out and get a life and get laid or something.

I doubt 99% like the music I do. They might consider it "noise" or say "that's not music", and you know what, that doesn't bother me in the slightest? I couldn't give a shit. If you enjoy it, that's all that matters, no one cares if it's "art" or not.

I care...And I am a college student studying his ass off to get a degree in geology. Anything that involves a great deal of imagination, focus and hard work is something I consider an art. from the monalisa to something as simple as carving a a block of wood, is art.

I'm studying towards a Chemistry degree. Is scientific work art? Is football art? Is a qwerty keyboard art?

I was referring to art, not sports or study, I was making a reference to your "Get a life" comment...

 

[StriderShinryu]

I generally agree with their viewpoint, except the belief that if Bioware does make changes to the ending itself that it somehow means they are selling out or caving in. Anything Bioware does do is Bioware's decision and if they feel that incorporating some of the feedback will improve their game, then so be it. The feedback will be incorporated in the way they want to do it and it will fit into the existing game as they fit it in. For better or worse, that is a situation they will have to live with going forward but just because the source of the change is external and not internal, it's still their doing.

People can talk all they want about things like Da Vinco not changing the Mona Lisa once it was done but the number of words won't and can't change just how silly a thought process that is. Da Vinci couldn't change the Mona Lisa once it was out of his hands because he just didn't have the ability to do so. Today, had he released the Mona Lisa in a digital form, he certainly could have (and maybe would have) done so. He also wasn't working in a medium that is built on the foundation of creator/fan interaction.

 

[endtherapture]

I desperately hope Bioware doesn't overwrite what they've done. Not because I think it's perfect (I don't), but because they made an artistic choice.

No, fuck this, im done. Im never reading anything remotely related to EC again. I knew it was coming, I read it anyway, fuck this, fuck EC, fuck everything.

*Leaves tossing over random objects and kicking doors*

(Seriously though, I disagree. I knew EC would role out the pretentious artistic vision shit.)

Games critics defending "artistic integrity" blah blah blah is getting so fucking old.

Yeah, how DARE game critics want to treat games as a true art form? Shame on them for trying to treat the medium with a little bit of respect.

Oh who really gives a shit if games are art? People who care about it so much need to go out and get a life and get laid or something.

I doubt 99% like the music I do. They might consider it "noise" or say "that's not music", and you know what, that doesn't bother me in the slightest? I couldn't give a shit. If you enjoy it, that's all that matters, no one cares if it's "art" or not.

I care...And I am a college student studying his ass off to get a degree in geology. Anything that involves a great deal of imagination, focus and hard work is something I consider an art. from the monalisa to something as simple as carving a a block of wood, is art.

I'm studying towards a Chemistry degree. Is scientific work art? Is football art? Is a qwerty keyboard art?

I was referring to art, not sports or study, I was making a reference to your "Get a life" comment...

How is sport not an "art" then? It requires imagination, focus and hard work. As does study. As does hairdressing. As does science.

 

[Limecake]

but most importantly because it creates better games what would Mass Effect be without any artistic direction? if all you were doing was picking a red or blue circle for red or blue 'points' and every now and then you had to shoot vague polygons that would give you even more red and blue points.

And it makes a difference whether we call it artistic direction or something else? Me saying I do not give a shit about the "games r serios artsy busines" debate does not mean I think games would be better off without what you call artistic direction.

Yes, this so called "artistic direction" can make for better games. An irrelevant group of people who dont play them recognizing this is - well, irrelevant.

so you're issue is with my wording? What term should I be using to describe this?

When I watch the VGA's and see Real live tea bagging, celebrities who have nothing to do with the industry and jokes aimed at a 13 year old boy I can't help but think:

"Jesus, Is this what the majority of people actually think we like?"

Thats because the VGAs are aimed at 13 year olds. And again, theres no reason to care. You dont see people who enjoy pop music worrying about their image because the grammies are a pile of crap.

the VGA's were aimed at 13 year old's? News to me, especially because the network that hosts it considers itself the 'first network for men' who describes it's own target demographic as males 18-34?

There's a difference between being boring and having nothing to do with the medium it's supposed to be celebrating.

That's why I care, because the medium gets no respect when it's considered a 'toy'

So you care about what other people think because you care about what other people think.

sure do, It'd be nice if I didn't but I'm at least honest enough to admit I do care what others think of me.

Especially when they assume I'm an immature jerk because I play video games.

(Also you failed to define "art", "artistic integrity" and "artistic direction", which reinforces the notion that you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.)

no, I don't care about your silly rules. Don't imply that I don't know what I'm talking about just because I won't explain terms to you every 5 minutes.

EDIT: You also randomly assume Mass Effect is actually a good series, which is rightfully controversial to say the least.

really? from what I've heard a large majority of the people in 'Retake Mass Effect' have claimed the series has been great up until the last 10 minutes or so.

and I think it's widely accepted that ME1 and ME2 were good games.

 

[Kahunaburger]

sure do, It'd be nice if I didn't but I'm at least honest enough to admit I do care what others think of me.

Especially when they assume I'm an immature jerk because I play video games.

Dude, since when is this an issue anymore? Games are mainstream, and are becoming even more so with every passing year. You've got old ladies playing Bejeweled and Wii Sports, business types playing Angry Birds on the way to work, and bros playing Smash Bros.

 

[Terminate421]

I desperately hope Bioware doesn't overwrite what they've done. Not because I think it's perfect (I don't), but because they made an artistic choice.

No, fuck this, im done. Im never reading anything remotely related to EC again. I knew it was coming, I read it anyway, fuck this, fuck EC, fuck everything.

*Leaves tossing over random objects and kicking doors*

(Seriously though, I disagree. I knew EC would role out the pretentious artistic vision shit.)

One hundred percent with you.

this "artistic" choice shit is kind of a lie. A good artistic choice is the "Eye" Scene from Dead Space 2, it stayed true to the games roots and added to the intensity of the mood. A bad one is the Mass Effect 3 one, completetly out of context of the game itself.

 

[Berenzen]

(Also you failed to define "art", "artistic integrity" and "artistic direction", which reinforces the notion that you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.)

Art- The end product of the imagination, creative process and effort put into a creation in order to convey one or more emotions, feelings or stories to its intended audience.

Artistic Integrity- The value of stasis placed on a piece of art in order for the piece to be viewed in it's original form by every person that experiences the work.

Artistic Direction- the way the creator or creators wish the story/emotion/feeling to be told.

 

[Thoric485]

This was expressed eloquently [http://www.ferretbrain.com/articles/article-848] by a different Dan on Ferretbrain. A particularly relevant quote:

Up until the final moment, Mass Effect Three could have been about a vast number of things. It could have been about idealism versus pragmatism, nationalism versus internationalism, unity versus self-interest, conflict versus reconciliation, or even ? if you wanted ? about organic versus synthetic life. The final moment, though, strips away all of the other possible interpretations and makes it a game about one thing and one thing only, about an inevitable conflict between synthetic and organic life, and about the necessity for a dramatic solution to that conflict, either in the form of the Reapers, or the the form of Synthesis. The ending removes all textual support for any reading of the game other than this rather tedious one.

This was a great read, thanks for sharing it. I think it's a great intepretation of what BioWare tried to do, and why it pissed off so many people.

we want talented people to do what they do best and not get fucked over.

I very much agree to that.

And I don't really care if they change the ending or not, I haven't been really thrilled with the series since the second one.

It's the notion of this being some huge controversial issue, when there's all this other crap going on in the background, that rubs me the wrong way. Pandemic's closure probably got 1/100-th of the coverage this did.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Dude, since when is this an issue anymore? Games are mainstream, and are becoming even more so with every passing year. You've got old ladies playing Bejeweled and Wii Sports, business types playing Angry Birds on the way to work, and bros playing Smash Bros.

Actually, it still is. I talk about games with friends in public, and we still funny looks from eavesdroppers. The stereotype of the socially retarded virgin is still kind of stuck on us. I think a lot of us tend to forget that people who are as into the medium as we are... well, we're the minority. The guy with Angry Birds on his phone and Rock Band controllers in his apartment may or may not self-identify as a gamer.

We're doing better, certainly. But there's still a ways to go.

Although I'm not sure it's necessary to get people to self-identify as "gamers" - after all, I read a lot, but don't self-identify as a "bookworm." I think cultural osmosis will make games mainstream, and I don't think Bioware ending DLC or whatever will have much of an impact on that process.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I didn't totally agree with the point they were making, but I understood where they were coming from. I think a lot of people forget that you don't have to agree with someone all the time. It's more important to understand them. In the last few years, I've made a concerted effort to reach out and talk to people I normally wouldn't have, who disagree with me philosophically on matters of great import and also some that many (including those here) would consider trivial. But I believe I've improved as a person for having made that effort. Consequently it rubs me the wrong way when I see dismissal after dismissal after dismissal, almost always accompanied by a hollow platitude of, "You just don't get it."

Well, you have to understand this is my point as well. If I dislike that ending, and feel a change is warranted, I'm:

- Entitled!
- A crybaby!
- Taking video games too seriously!
- A whiner!
- I don't understand art!
- I don't respect the integrity of art!
- I'm trying to force the artist to deface their art!

...and on and on. My original response to you was in reply to your statement about "non artists", which seemed like yet another variation on the "You're too much of a plebeian to understand the mighty forces at work here" barrage.

There's been very, very few people willing to talk on both sides of this issue, or reach across the aisle and accept someone else's perspective. And when you say things like:

Frankly, this whole goatfuck has given me the impression that gamers in general are just thin-skinned and petulant, and don't know how to behave when presented with an opinion different from their own.

...you're not exactly fostering an atmosphere of camaraderie and the free exchange of ideas, you're just hammering away on the insult bell.

 

[Kahunaburger]

This was a great read, thanks for sharing it. I think it's a great intepretation of what BioWare tried to do, and why it pissed off so many people.

Glad you liked it!

 

[putowtin]

snip

snip

Games critics defending "artistic integrity" blah blah blah is getting so fucking old.

Yeah, how DARE game critics want to treat games as a true art form? Shame on them for trying to treat the medium with a little bit of respect.

Oh who really gives a shit if games are art? People who care about it so much need to go out and get a life and get laid or something.

I doubt 99% like the music I do. They might consider it "noise" or say "that's not music", and you know what, that doesn't bother me in the slightest? I couldn't give a shit. If you enjoy it, that's all that matters, no one cares if it's "art" or not.

If I buy a piece of art (you know that stuff you hang on your wall) I know what it is, I don't buy it then upon getting home realise there's a guy taking a poo in the bottom right corner!
unless I was buying a

Spoiler: Pieter Bruegel the Elder

Games can be beautiful, can affect the player as deeply as a fine piece of art or a song, but all these things can and have been changed.

By stamping something as "Art" critic's seem to think they have made an item untouchable, try explaining that to the artist who constantly wants to change said piece cause they arn't happy with it!

 

[Atmos Duality]

but most importantly because it creates better games

"Better" in the eye of the beholder? Or "better" for everyone?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, I finally got around to reading the EC on the ending linked in the original post. It was...interesting. That's one defense of the ending, I guess. That it was such a spectacular fucking failure that it got everyone talking and underlined how good the original games were.

I disagree with him that the ending was interesting in any capacity...it was way too much of a Shaggy Dog and had way too many breaks with common sense to be anything but aggravating in the extreme...but I generally respect the sentiments he's espousing.

Their MMO addiction piece was still retarded though. Seriously so, so embarrassing.

 

[anthony87]

Are these the same guys who did the hilarious, absolutely cringe-inducing segment on MMO addiction?

Oh christ I remember that one.

James moping into the camera for two episodes? No thanks, I'll stick to the episodes that are actually interesting and not depressing as fuck.

 

[Starke]

Are these the same guys who did the hilarious, absolutely cringe-inducing segment on MMO video game addiction?

Yeah, yeah it was. And that's when I stopped watching them.