Fallout 3 or New Vegas? (yes, this question again)

[Easton Dark]

...but wait, are you saying it's still unstable with all of the updates? Because that's beyond my realm of experience.

To this day, 90% of the times I have stopped playing New Vegas were because it crashed and I was too angry to start it back up.

Fan patches help, I've tried a few, but it's a consistent problem. Fallout 3 works fine totally unchanged, and I remember the days it first came out when it too was unstable.

 

[loc978]

He covers that with an extremely valid dismissal. Even the unsustainably tiny population of the game would have eaten every prepackaged foodstuff in the DC ruins long before 200 years went by. If you want to say they live off of brahmin, mirelurk, molerat and giant bugs, okay... but you'd have a malnourished population ravaged by scurvy.

So again, what do they eat?

Did you forget about the mutfruit found across the CW?

How about the punga that gets imported from point lookout by various people such as Tobar and the smugglers?

Or how about the large hydroponics bay in Rivet City where they grow fresh apples, potatoes, carrots, and pears that they trade for scrap metal to keep their city afloat?

Hm, I suppose I did, at least with the mutfruit. The punga I discounted for not being present until the player visits Point Lookout (so that's 200 years they weren't there) and Rivet City's hydroponics for being tiny. I don't think you've seen a large hydro bay if you think that one's more than an experiment... Even Rivet City itself has more people than that could support, nevermind the wasteland.

Not that there's even close to enough mutfruit to support the population... also (and this is something I've wondered since Fallout 1), what does mutfruit grow on? You never see any out in the wasteland unless it's already picked.

I dunno, maybe this stuff isn't obvious to most people... but I spent my early childhood on a farm. The first thing I noticed about the capital wasteland was "no crops=no life".

 

[SajuukKhar]

Hm, I suppose I did, at least with the mutfruit. The punga I discounted for not being present until the player visits Point Lookout (so that's 200 years they weren't there) and rivet city's hydroponics for being tiny. I don't think you've seen a large hydro bay if you think that one's more than an experiment... Even Rivet City has more people than that could support.

Not that there's even close to enough mutfruit to support the population... also (and this is something I've wondered since Fallout 1), what does mutfruit grow on?

Actually, Punga exists in trader inventories the moment you activate the DLC. As long as you have the DLC active, it can be sold by pretty much any trader in the CW the second you get out of the vault. Its only NV DLC that doesn't add stuff to merchant inventories until after you beat the DLC.

Also, did you miss the giant door in Rivet City's science lab that all the tubes of the hydroponics bay feed into? It even has a giant band of CAUTION black/yellow strips all around it on the inside edge to make it stand out more, and to show that its a big ass door.

Its pretty obvious there is another section to the ship we don't get to see that's part of the lab.


As for mutfruit, it grows on wizards, and maybe bushes.

 

[loc978]

Hm, I suppose I did, at least with the mutfruit. The punga I discounted for not being present until the player visits Point Lookout (so that's 200 years they weren't there) and rivet city's hydroponics for being tiny. I don't think you've seen a large hydro bay if you think that one's more than an experiment... Even Rivet City has more people than that could support.

Not that there's even close to enough mutfruit to support the population... also (and this is something I've wondered since Fallout 1), what does mutfruit grow on?

Actually, Punga exists in trader inventories the moment you activate the DLC. It can be sold by pretty much any trader in the CW the second you get out of the vault. Its only NV DLC that doesn't add stuff to merchant inventories until after you beat the DLC.

Also, did you miss the giant door in Rivet City's science lab that all the tubes of the hydroponics bay feed into?

Spoiler: snip

Its pretty obvious there is another section to the ship we don't get to see that's part of the lab.

No, I know the door... and I maintain that an aircraft carrier maintenance bay is a fine hydroponics lab for weed, but not for apple trees, carrots and potatoes. Rivet City supports too many people for that dinky thing.

Again, this is probably because I actually grow a lot of my own food, and have in many stages of my life.

I'll grant you, I probably remember the punga wrong... I never had that expansion from the beginning of a playthrough. if they actually shipped over crates of the things at a time, it could make the capital wasteland viable. Someone should get on that mod.

As for mutfruit, it grows on wizards, and maybe bushes.

...and I guess that's the problem. Most people are probably fine with that sort of handwave explanation. I'm not, nor have I ever been.

 

[SajuukKhar]

but not for apple trees, carrots and potatoes. Rivet City supports too many people for that dinky thing.

Who says Rivet City is growing apples on trees?

These guys created a portable fusion power plant powerful enough to power Liberty Prime, which not even the pre-war super-companies could do.

 

[loc978]

but not for apple trees, carrots and potatoes. Rivet City supports too many people for that dinky thing.

Who says Rivet City is growing apples on trees?

These guys created a portable fusion power plant powerful enough to power Liberty Prime, which not even the pre-war super-companies could do.

If they were growing some kind of tree-less superfruit, it wouldn't be apples, or at least not just apples. I don't think it's a leap of logic to assume that if the only fruit they grow is apples, those apples grow on trees.

 

[SajuukKhar]

If they were growing some kind of tree-less superfruit, it wouldn't be apples, or at least not just apples. I don't think it's a leap of logic to assume that if the only fruit they grow is apples, those apples grow on trees.

But they have nowhere to put the trees... also they grow pears, which are also a fruit.

 

[loc978]

If they were growing some kind of tree-less superfruit, it wouldn't be apples, or at least not just apples. I don't think it's a leap of logic to assume that if the only fruit they grow is apples, those apples grow on trees.

But they have nowhere to put the trees... also they grow pears, which are also a fruit.

huh. I don't remember the pears (though those also grow on trees)... and they do have space for a few apple/pear trees. Maybe 10ish in that maintenance bay (those things are tall... and yes, I've been in a few). Honestly, they'd be better off growing kiwis and berries. Apples and pears would be a waste of space. I assume that's what they grow because those were the only seeds they found (which would mean they're growing cider apples... not tasty, and liable to upset stomachs if eaten raw).

 

[SajuukKhar]

huh. I don't remember the pears (though those also grow on trees)... and they do have space for a few apple/pear trees. Maybe 10ish in that maintenance bay (those things are tall... and yes, I've been in a few). Honestly, they'd be better off growing kiwis and berries. Apples and pears would be a waste of space. I assume that's what they grow because those were the only seeds they found (which would mean they're growing cider apples... not tasty, and liable to upset stomachs if eaten raw).

Well, you also have to remember, Three Dog states, when talking about Oasis, that living trees aren't something people in the CW have seen.

Its not something that's like "yeah, living trees don't exist in the CW, but Rivet City is growing some" its straight up "there are no living trees in the CW except maybe in this one place I may have visited when I was totally high".

 

[loc978]

huh. I don't remember the pears (though those also grow on trees)... and they do have space for a few apple/pear trees. Maybe 10ish in that maintenance bay (those things are tall... and yes, I've been in a few). Honestly, they'd be better off growing kiwis and berries. Apples and pears would be a waste of space. I assume that's what they grow because those were the only seeds they found (which would mean they're growing cider apples... not tasty, and liable to upset stomachs if eaten raw).

Well, you also have to remember, Three Dog states, when talking about Oasis, that living trees aren't something people in the CW have seen.

Its not something that's like "yeah, living trees don't exist in the CW, but Rivet City is growing some" its straight up "there are no living trees in the CW except maybe in this one place I may have visited when I was totally high".

If only the Rivet City science team is involved with cultivating the food in a hydroponics bay, a vast majority of the people in Rivet City wouldn't have seen the place the food is grown, nevermind Three Dog, who was just a wastelander before turning DJ.

Would have been nice if Bethesda had at least designed the hydroponics bay, rather than just handwave it into a few tree fruits and root veggies on a table.

 

[Rednog]

I preferred 3. I've tried multiple times to get into New Vegas...I just couldn't push myself to do it. Fallout 3 right out of the gate grabbed my attention and made me want to go explore and continue. For me New Vegas just drops you down and is like yea whatever...I guess you can go do some shit over here.

 

[Sofus]

I am a huge fan of the way Bethesda created the world in Fallout 3, simply because the game not only feels as if it could actually have been a real place, but it is also quite difficult to nagivate through the ruins of DC and that alone made me interested in what was around the next corner.

New Vegas is rather easy to navigate through and that alone can make exploring the desert feel somewhat boring. I like gettig lost because that is when I actually become immersed in the game. NV is however the better game simply because there are more and better quests, more weapons, more locations that have a story and alot more characters. I also liked the DLC's for NV alot more than the ones for F3.

With that said, I really think you should consider buying both games.

 

[Zapp Maliss]

I love both games. However, I must say Fallout: New Vegas is superior. The reputation system was leaps and bounds more sensible and sophisticated than the karma system. Yes, New Vegas also had the karma system, but from what I could tell, it was rarely used. With that, the overall progress of the main story gave far more choice and the many different choices you could make via all the other quests led to a far more interesting delve into what sort of character you were as opposed to just being Good, Neutral or Bad. Are you comfortable with robots? Gangers? Raiders? What sort of political philosophy do you find superior? Stretched thin republic? Ruthless empire of old? Technocratic city-state? Anarchy? Fallout 3 felt very much like Fable. You chose to be good or bad and how you liked to kill things and then rode out the rest of the game being that. Fallout: New Vegas felt more complicated, more mature, and I liked that.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

snip

Eh, fuck, you're completely right about Carol. I haven't seen her dialog in at least a year and forgot about her mentioning the west being hit first. The Little Lamplight thing is also a good point.

Alright, so surprise attack is out.

I'm still going to feebly cling to the belief that the east coast was hit by something like 3 times the nuclear payload.

As I said previously, I also very much agree that one of Fallout 3's biggest problems is when it's supposed to be set. It would be such a better game if they set it just after Fallout 2.

Oddly enough, I actually didn't like Fallout 2 all that much. Loved the hell out of Fallout 1, but something about 2 just didn't work for me. I think it was partially the setting and mostly combat. Maybe it was just the character I played, but it never stopped feeling tedious to me. Punishing at the beginning because of the lack of proper guns and then too easy once I found a Gauss weapon and power armor. By the time I was on the oil rig I just wanted it to end.
The big fucker that guards the final door was cool though. I also had an incredibly good time with the scientologists and killing Tom Cruise.

The fact is, New Vegas is a higher quality game. In most of the objective elements of both games, New Vegas is superior. The writing is more solid and makes more sense, the combat is improved, the characters are generally more interesting and the DLCs are incedible.

Just gonna point out, kindly since you chose Fallout 3, none of those are objective elements. Objectively, Fallout 3 would be better since it doesn't crash nearly as much, unless you like unstable games. Opinion for everything else.

I'm just glad you can combine these two together into one game, so no one has to choose.

I wouldn't call the buggyness an objective issue at all. Different people got different bugs at different times and with the current batch of official patches, New Vegas is a relatively stable game.

As for the rest, the story especially can objectively be called better. Fewer plotholes > More plotholes. That's not something that can be debated. It's possible to like the plot with more holes in it, but that's where it becomes subjective.

 

[faefrost]

Fallout 3 had the much more interesting environment and open world to explore. It just felt like there was more to do and more stuff around every corner. It also felt more threatening.

New Vegas has the better game mechanics, better stories and better NPC's. The actual world setting was very very bland. Honestly how does one tell the difference between pre and post nuclear war Mojave?

Overall it's a tossup. I would love NV's story, mechanics and NPC depth applied to Fallout 3's world and environments. If Fallout 4 is indeed set in Boston that would probably do the trick.

 

[Scootinfroodie]

-You mean the guy who runs the Enclave and whose orders the soldiers follow?

You mean the computer that one enclave soldier could totally break or reprogram? He doesn't entrust the FEV to Autumn. Maybe there's some reason for that?

-Incorrect, it is explicitly stated that PP only set out to purify the water of the tidal basin, the Patomic river itself, and the ocean, were never meant to be cured by PP.

You're still looking at a HUGE area of influence. Not only do they have to retain a foothold in what is basically BoS and Wastelander territory, but they still have to maintain every other outpost. Not to mention the fact that their security is lax enough that you're able to completely bust up their main base on your own

-Except they cant, as Megaton shows, the purifiers they have only work enough to give RESIDENTS of the town water, all of those generic Megaton Settlers, don't get water, and say so in dialog. Not to mention having enough fresh water to drink =/= having enough to sustain farms, which is needed for growth.

Except no reason is given as to why they can't make more of those. People can still repair all of these devices but can't build a new one? Pittsburgh has working factories and the west coast has a nation, but there's no way we could rebuild this previously mass produced robot here in Washington

-The BoS is technologically advanced enough to burn pretty much any city, except maybe Rivet City, to the ground with ease. The only reason the CW isn't ruled by the BoS is because Lyons doesn't want to. It is under the BoS's will alone that the CW remains as free cities.

Where is this shown? The robot they needed to bust through Enclave defenses on an OUTPOST was subsequently destroyed by an Enclave strike. The armour/weapons they have are verifiably inferior, and they only show off any real capability for fast transportation after you destroy the Enclave, suggesting that they didn't have those capabilities prior to them being able to effectively loot their former enemies. Additionally, there are blatant slaver and bandit outposts around the capital wasteland that go entirely unchecked. If the BoS was concerned with keeping people free, wouldn't destroying these camps help?

-Yes, but he also has to consider his own survival as well, the irradiated water doesn't effect him, but curing it would cause a massive expansion of humans, and power to the BoS, both of which hunt super mutants like him down. Its literally in his best interest to not cure the water himself. He isn't going to stop YOU, because he respects you, but he has no reason to do it himself. And I think Broken Steel letting Fawkes go in was stupid.

No, his reasoning is
"I'm sorry, my companion, but no. We all have our own destinies, and yours culminates here. I would not rob you of that"
That's blatant railroading. Your head cannon is nice, but nowhere in the actual game does it suggest this

-They are actually pretty well trained due to having to constantly fight off super mutants.

Which they've only been able to beat because Dev Fiat

-Opinion

No, Fallout's pretty clear on what constitutes good and evil conduct, even in otherwise morally ambiguous scenarios

-Except you are playing the game, as you can go off and do whatever you want, the game's MQ doesn't progress because of a logical stalemate situation.

No, it's not a logical stalemate. Not even remotely
You are TOLD where things are by various factions. They already KNOW there the pieces are and where they need to be moved.
And non-participation in a thing doesn't fix the thing. Mass Effect doesn't give you the option to not join Cerberus by just allowing you to play Mass Effect 1 and ignore 2.

The problem with that video is that it asks the rather retarded question of "what do they eat in Fallout 3" when what they eat, how they get it, and how it is transported, is explicitly shown to you, its just not ever told to you point by point by a NPC that exists to baby the player.

A handful of vegetables in one lab out of all the locations in the Capital Wasteland does not explain away how people have access to food and apparently clean water (the latter of which calls into question the need for purifying water with a giant machine, ignoring of course the ease of purifying water in general)

There's also the fact that merchants survive purely through fiat. Super mutants set up shop in a number of chokepoints, and should you be in the area while caravans are moving through they'll get mowed down by muties
Yet they manage to reach and supply every town in the wasteland

 

[Easton Dark]

I wouldn't call the buggyness an objective issue at all. Different people got different bugs at different times and with the current batch of official patches, New Vegas is a relatively stable game.

As for the rest, the story especially can objectively be called better. Fewer plotholes > More plotholes. That's not something that can be debated. It's possible to like the plot with more holes in it, but that's where it becomes subjective.

I had just always heard repeatedly about New Vegas' buggy nature where I felt I heard so little in comparison to when Fallout 3 was popular. But you and others apparently play New Vegas fine, where I have crash after crash after crash. It makes me a bit salty that I can't play it in a stable state.

And I really can't think of plot holes in either game. The story in both matters so little to me though, maybe I don't scrutinize enough.

 

[Roxas1359]

I had just always heard repeatedly about New Vegas' buggy nature where I felt I heard so little in comparison to when Fallout 3 was popular. But you and others apparently play New Vegas fine, where I have crash after crash after crash. It makes me a bit salty that I can't play it in a stable state.

And I really can't think of plot holes in either game. The story in both matters so little to me though, maybe I don't scrutinize enough.

If it's any consolation I played Fallout 3 when it came out and for a long time and encounter so many bugs it hurt. I had the 360 version initially, then got the PS3 version which is even buggier. I encountered more bugs on the PS3 version of Fallout 3 than I did for my copy of New Vegas. Plus when Fallout 3 was released on the PC it was released for Games for Windows Live...yeah you're not getting me to touch that with a 40 ft pole. Luckily someone had already modded Fallout 3 to remove the GFWL, but it was still there itself.

For my New Vegas I have 3 copies, my original one for the PS3 which I had to replace because it got scratched up from overplaying; the one for the 360 because it was a bit more stable, and I plan on recording that version, and more recently the PC version. PC version seems to run perfectly for me with no bugs, and I only started to encounter crashes when I modded the hell out of my New Vegas version. :/

What are your specs for your PC when it comes to running New Vegas, well if you are running New Vegas on a PC that is? Perhaps I can help because there are certain settings that can tend to improve performance (such as turning off auto-saves).

 

[Easton Dark]

What are your specs for your PC when it comes to running New Vegas, well if you are running New Vegas on a PC that is? Perhaps I can help because there are certain settings that can tend to improve performance (such as turning off auto-saves).

Yeah, I'm all pc. I'm well above and beyond the requirements. And I do turn off autosaves and use CASM to save every five minutes because I'm paranoid whenever I open a door or see a trader spawn off in the distance It'll crash. Not sure why characters being drawn down the road would cause a crash, but they do.

The only mod I've found that causes more crashes is AWOP, and I wish I knew why, because it adds exactly what I thought New Vegas was missing.

 

[AlbertoDeSanta]

Fallout 3 had the better Story and atmosphere

Look, I get if you like the aesthetic of Fallout 3, but how did it have a better story? It was a hacked together "greatest hits" list of Fallout 1 and 2 story features
"We need you to leave the vault" "We need you to purify the water with this not-water-chip" "Oh no! The should-be-dead Enclave are attacking!"
Not to mention the fact that, as has been mentioned in this thread, there's really no reason to retake Project Purity if the Enclave are going to go through all that effort to clean all of the water anyway.

Deep analysis aside, I just felt more invested in it. I don't know why, but I honestly preferred it and felt it better than the petty power struggle of NCR vs Legion vs House/You; if you didn't join the NCR or Legion. It all felt just so uninteresting. Whereas there was this sense of wonder and sort of chess-like attitude to Fallout 3; yes it all leads to something greater then yourself, and there are some nonsensical aspects, but you play your part and get to do as you please. See, the point I think of when viewing whether a story is good or not is whether it was engaging; if it kept me hooked long enough to see the ending. New Vegas failed at that. Why? Because it lost itself after Benny was dealt with. The Strip stuff was incredibly boring, and didn't keep me interested. However, I will say that one aspect of the story of NV is infinitely better than the story of 3; the DLC. THe overhanging idea that destiny requires you to walk the Lonesome Road again is much more interesting then ANY STORY that either game had produced up until that point. NV wins on DLC; both in terms of gameplay and story, whilst looking at them from a vanilla POV I did have an infinitely more fun time with 3 then NV in terms of story.

CAPTCHA: Without a Doubt. Yes, without a doubt I view 3 as the better game, and that's simply my opinion, as it is an opinion thread.