Fantasy games need to stop stealing from LOTR
- Thread starter Vern5
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Wasn't that tried with The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - and then the gaming company came back and said, "Yeah, we went too "weird" with TES: 3 and too "normal" with Oblivion so we're trying for that "sweet spot" with TES V: Skyrim?Vern5 said:
Yeah. They said that.
I have no problem with fantasy in any direction, it's why I can comfortably play 4th edition D&D tabletop or 5th edition Talislanta - http://talislanta.com/?page_id=5 - to this day.
I think th issue is simply finding a sweet spot. Close enough to the base work that they are recognizable (otherwise you simply make up a species) but not close enough that it copies them completely.Jasper Van Rensbergen said:
Orcs probably should be land based, and strong. The kind of being that likes to fight.
This shouldn't limit them to just bloodthirsty war mongers though. I could see them being employed as Bouncers, Mercenaries, or even a rent-a-cop kind of thing. However they could easily be an innskeeper (hey, even orcs have jobs they hate). Sailor just doesn't seem to fit them. It requires being locked up on a boat without much room to roam. It's like if you had a ship driven by faeries or pixies.
Edit: What I'm saying is just have the simplest form of a species and work from there. Dwarves are short. Faeries are small flying insect-like people. Goblins tend to smell, are small and disposable. etc.
Uh... You realize that D&D started as a fan attempt at playing LotR? To the extent that "halfling" was supposed to be "hobbit". Tolkien INVENTED the fantasy genre as we know it. It's not a taint, per say, its deliberate design.Vern5 said:
Complaining about Tolkien influence on fantasy is like complaining about all the French people in Paris. Not that Tolkien didn't basically do his stuff as fan fiction off all the pagan myths he was familiar with, but still...
ok well i agree but...
1. Gygax has often said in interviews that D&D was made because they wanted a way to "play" in the Tolkin world.
2. People like LotR, so developers want to cash in on that
3. If a fantasy RPG is good and engaging I don't think it really matters where the world is based
4. Most times when fantasy RPG's get made that don't cow tow to the Tolkin template they get slated
the most engaging rpg i played recently (pen and paper not computer) was a D20 modern(that's D&D rules but in present or future settings if u are not familiar) campaign set in the Hebrides (islands of the coast of Scotland) in a near future (present day tech but low population due to economic collapse, our DM was studying an economics degree lol) world where due to a very odd chain of events lead by the players we were at war with an arms dealer.
this kind of craziness is entirely possible, I remember playing Neverwinter Nights 1 online with entirely free servers that had DM led campaigns that worked (with a few minor restrictions due to tech and game design) like a D&D/D20 mod game and it was FREE FFS i don't see y MMO's could not employ this same tactic to make dynamic gaming experiences that would wow (no pun intend) the world
sorry went off at a bit of a tangent there lol
1. Gygax has often said in interviews that D&D was made because they wanted a way to "play" in the Tolkin world.
2. People like LotR, so developers want to cash in on that
3. If a fantasy RPG is good and engaging I don't think it really matters where the world is based
4. Most times when fantasy RPG's get made that don't cow tow to the Tolkin template they get slated
the most engaging rpg i played recently (pen and paper not computer) was a D20 modern(that's D&D rules but in present or future settings if u are not familiar) campaign set in the Hebrides (islands of the coast of Scotland) in a near future (present day tech but low population due to economic collapse, our DM was studying an economics degree lol) world where due to a very odd chain of events lead by the players we were at war with an arms dealer.
this kind of craziness is entirely possible, I remember playing Neverwinter Nights 1 online with entirely free servers that had DM led campaigns that worked (with a few minor restrictions due to tech and game design) like a D&D/D20 mod game and it was FREE FFS i don't see y MMO's could not employ this same tactic to make dynamic gaming experiences that would wow (no pun intend) the world
sorry went off at a bit of a tangent there lol
not entirely, Tolkien was primarily a linguist he wanted to crate a language (came to be known as elvish) but realised it would only work if he had a race to speak it so he created the elves. then realised they needed a history which bred allies and enemy's and so on. that's why although LotR is an excellent story its not very well written from a literature POV, and certainly would not hold up against the work of homer for example, Tolkien was not a writer he was a linguist.Phalene said:
for a full description and some excellent watching i recommend some of the special features from the special editions of the LotR box set and the Documentary by Julian Birkett. There was also one on the BBC a while back but i forget it's name or creators.
I like WoW because it borrowed alot of things from LOTR and did them right.
Plus, Draenei are pretty original, I guess.
Plus, Draenei are pretty original, I guess.
sounds like you've been reading "The Deptford Mice" trilogy 
The problem is that you are looking for "innovation" here by arguing that we should change dwarfs to be different. Thats like arguing that we should create a fantasy setting where Angels and Heaven are evil entities just so it can be "different". Or a matrix-setting where traffic lights works so Red means "go" and green means "stop". That's not innovation, that's c*cking up peoples expectations of how the world works, and it only leads to confusion.Vern5 said:
Instead of changing dwarfs, create an entirely new race and name it something else if you want actual innovation in that department. Don't reinvent something that has already been invented and then change it. That's just asking for people to dislike it.
I would rather have a passionate rip-off of Tolkien rather than the half-ass competition that makes opening a new fantasy novel a constant gamble with high risk and low returns.
Take Warcraft, it's certainly come a long way from being a knockoff, but at least you can tell Blizzard really cares about the world they're creating. They put in an element of humanity and humor that makes the races attractive.
Take Warcraft, it's certainly come a long way from being a knockoff, but at least you can tell Blizzard really cares about the world they're creating. They put in an element of humanity and humor that makes the races attractive.
True dat. We need more stuff based off of Neuromancer, for God's sake. That's the LoTR of cyberpunk, after all. That and Snow Crash.
