'Faults' in other people you cannot get your head around

[Ayrav]

When people get snooty about someone elses choice to use tobacco. It's none of your business, GO FUCK YOURSELF.

 

[Ayrav]

I'm confused. Are you saying cigarettes don't relieve stress (because they do), or are you saying that's not why people smoke them?

In my experience smokers have been the most stressed out, and those that I knew before they smoked/a few months after they quit were a lot calmer when they weren't smoking, so the idea that smoking relaxes seems laughable to me. I've also been taught that nicotine is a stimulant, but since a quick google search yielded little useful information I can't say for sure.

As for why I believe people smoke, social pressures and lack of willpower to quit, but since I'm not a smoker, I would have little idea why.

[sub]I have many relatives who have had their lungs wrecked/early strokes/cancer/etc. due to smoking, so I could be looking through biased eyes[/sub]

Or maybe your family has piss-poor genetics that leave them at greater risk for those diseases.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

People that live in a fucking mess, seriously, why is it every friend I have (mostly chicks) is incapable of keeping their flat tidy? They wonder why I never lend them anything, and I reply "Because I have no way of knowing where it'd end up."

The best part is when they complain they can't find something.

I let my cousin borrow my entire collection of Metal Gear. When he handed the games back to me, he had this "WTF was it all about?" look on his face and it was inconcievable that he didn't grasp the plot.

Well to be honest, it's not the most easy to follow story line. I had to play the games at least twice to fully get what was going on. Not to mention it's terribly written.

 

[10BIT]

Or maybe your family has piss-poor genetics that leave them at greater risk for those diseases.

Hey! That's not *wheeze* true! My fa*wheeze* family has perfectly *takes inhaler* healthy genes! Anyway, I was going more for the 'Brought up to hate smoking' angle since I am aware 'my family' is not an unbiased sample.

[sub]NB. While I do have asthma, it comes from the other side of my family, so I guess I would be doubly fucked with my respiratory disease and trifling tobacco tolerance.[/sub]
[small][sub]And how do you do the [ref] tag?[/sub][/small]

Edit: Since you feel so passionate about smoking, why do you smoke? I've yet to meet a smoker (in person at least) that doesn't/didn't regret the amount of time they spent smoking. Or are you just annoyed that people keep telling you to quit? And if so why does it annoy you exactly? (e.g. people telling you what to, you feel bad you haven't yet quit, it comes up in every conversation)

I dislike it because it stinks, second/third hand smoke irritates my asthma and I can't understand why people would waste time and money on an activity that has so many bad side effects and few (if any) benefits.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Spoiler: Way too long...

I don't get lazy people, or people that complain about doing their job, you're getting paid for something you signed up for, stop your bitching!

I'm also a member of that club, or as I like to refer to it "don't complain, do something about it instead". Can't stand laziness either, I don't even get it. People have to do SOMETHING or they'll explode. I would imagine.

Also, people who can't admit they have a drinking problem. You know the ones "oh I like to have a beer now and again but that's it I don't drink much!" in spite of them being drunk pretty much every night.

Nope.

I don't understand people that have to do something.

There's nothing inherently good about it.

So... We'll never see eye to eye on that, I think.

Lazyness is hard to explain to someone who is always active.

How do you explain just how difficult it can be to get something done to a person who has never struggled with it themselves?

It pisses me off how glib and self-righteous such people can be.

I can see why you think we won't see eye to eye on it. We probably won't.

The kind of laziness I refer to, at least, is inexcusable. I'm talking really easy things to do which barely take up any of your time. Taking out the trash, washing the dishes, getting a job, renewing your road tax, bothering your ass to learn the most simple tasks involved in your job as you get paid the same as everyone else. These kinds of things are not demanding.

I can understand where people would struggle if, say, they smoked too much dope in which case the solution is simple: stop doing it.

After that people are just making excuses with self-diagnosed anxieties, depression and selective ADD. They might fool some people but a lot can see them for the lazy spongers they are. You may think I'm being unfair or inconsiderate to the plight of some people who genuinely suffer here but I'm not, it's true. One of my best friends, a guy I've known for years, is one of these people and day by day I'm watching him allow his life to pass him by. He claims to have all sorts wrong with him, tries to explain it to me yet he shows no actual signs of aforementioned illnesses, then proceeding to tell people that he has a high IQ and knows so much about everything, why doesn't he use that to his advantage? He is just lazy and wants to play his PS3 for the rest of his life, without a job, living on benefits, with no sign of change. This really pisses me off as I've been working since I left school to get by and some of my tax is going towards him fucking around with his life.

Considering this, I think I've earned the right to be glib and self-righteous.

I disagree, and like I said, your attitude pisses me off.

But... It risks turning into one of those inane discussions that cannot be resolved because it has no basis other than various forms of prejudice, bigotry and foolishness from all involved. (myself included.)

And really, what is your point here?

You work? You're doing something with your life?

To what end?

What, ultimately, does it accomplish, and why is it better than what anyone who you think is 'wasting' their life is doing?

Why does it matter?

Do you think working and paying tax makes you any less dependent on everyone around you than someone on welfare?

All it amounts to is a psychological game that doesn't accomplish anywhere near as much as you think it does.

Society would probably collapse if nobody did anything, and yet huge sections of the population do 'work' that doesn't really serve any significant purpose.

And still, you can't know what it means to find things difficult that you yourself find easy.

Anyone that's good at something will fail to see how anyone can struggle with it unless they themselves went through a period where it was difficult for them.

And really, spare me the perverse moaning of someone who obviously resents paying income tax and seeing anyone else benefit from it in any way...

Don't go around attacking people for struggling with what you think is 'easy'.
It's easy for you, but that doesn't mean it literally is 'easy' by definition.

So many people seem to take things for granted that are in fact actual skills, that require practice and time to learn, just because they've never stopped to think about how or when they gained those skills...

It's the willpower fallacy all over again. -_-

Now then, I better go calm down, before I do something really stupid, like contemplate the utter futility of life and the stupid meaningless drivel that people spend their time worrying about...

Well I'd hate to leave questions unanswered.

My point, illustrating why I find it hard to understand laziness these days.

Yes I work. I'm doing this in order to support plans I have in the near future, which hopefully will allow me to travel to different places and meet new people yet could also go very wrong but I can at least know that I tried. That's important to me at least, if no one else.

From a personal viewpoint I may not accomplish much, then again I may. No of course it doesn't matter as we are all organic matter that is slowly decaying on an insignificant rock in space. Yet is that a reason to give up? I just think it's a good idea to make the most of the time we have and see and experience as much as we can. This matters to me at least because if I cease doing things I tend to get quite unhappy myself and have observed similar behaviour in others(such as my aforementioned friend). My last post was perhaps uncoordinated. More specifically I was referring to the the people who loaf around and sponge then complain when they realise they've done nothing with their lives, then proceed to make excuses when people try to help them find the root of the problem.

No I do not believe I am less dependent on everyone around me, far from it, I'm human just like everyone else and need support and encouragement more often than I'd admit. Man cannot survive on willpower alone as the saying goes.

Yes there are vast numbers of people who 'work' but it doesn't really have any significance in the end, but perhaps they want to graft away to provide for their families, feeling like they're giving something, rather than doing nothing at all.

Funny thing is, I actually DO know what it means to struggle. When you stop doing certain things you can get into a state of general apathy and completely lose confidence in abilities you were once outstanding at. Yeah I'm aware it takes a while to get that back, it's like the lawnmower analogy, you keep pulling the cord to get the motor started and it just won't go and yet if you could just get it once it'd burst into life. I've been that guy. No it's not nice, however I had no option but to grit my teeth and get on with it and that was an uphill struggle. However as I'm about to elaborate those are not the kind of people I'm attacking.

Taxes. No one likes them, yet it's a necessary part of life for the working person. Yep, employment is still hard to come by at the moment and the longer you're unemployed the less confident you are. Consider this though, what about the people I often have to serve, using their benefit money to buy drugs and alcohol with no intention of ever earning it themselves? Surely you can forgive me for being a little pissed off at that. I'm all for helping people out (except banks and MPs) as we all need it from time to time, hasn't happened yet but I could end up on benefits at some point. But when I see these people who have the audacity to argue with me when I refuse to let them have something on credit, stating "I pay your wages", despite not actually doing a single fucking thing to earn it themselves how do you think that makes me feel?

At the end of a day, it's not a case of thinking I'm better than anyone(still got a long way to go before I can use that one) it's a case of I cannot understand crass laziness. If you've got the ability and the confidence, do something, no amount of arguing can justify not doing it. This reply is over-long as it is. I don't want to seem like I have to have the last word(no doubt I won't) I just felt a more specific explanation was in line. Your move.

OK, well. Fair enough then.
I over-reacted I guess, but that's because you were using a line of reasoning I've heard so often that it starts to make me physically ill.

Do something, or don't. I'm in a pretty bad place, and have been for a long time, and it's ultimately my own doing.

Trying to dig yourself out of a psychological pit is quite complicated though, and it's the realisation that the 'easy' things in life aren't any easier to do in some circumstances than the really hard stuff, because the problems have little to do with the task itself.

But... That's enough of that. It was an over-reaction born of extreme personal frustration.

 

[Klepa]

I can see why you think we won't see eye to eye on it. We probably won't.

The kind of laziness I refer to, at least, is inexcusable. I'm talking really easy things to do which barely take up any of your time. Taking out the trash, washing the dishes, getting a job, renewing your road tax, bothering your ass to learn the most simple tasks involved in your job as you get paid the same as everyone else. These kinds of things are not demanding.

I can't see how not wanting a job is a hard concept. Assuming you normally sleep 8 hours a day, and spend 16 dicking about, doing whatever the hell you want. Then you suddenly have to cut your "dicking about time" in half, and go to work for 8 hours. Add the facts that now you have to wake up at certain hours, and you might even have to stress about the work in your free time.

Going from the carefree 8 hours of bed and 16h of whatever you want, to 8h of unconsciousness, 8h of work (which you might hate), and 8h of being depressed because it's still not friday, doesn't seem like a good deal at all. Effectively you're living 1/3 of the life you're given, which is half of what you had, before you got a job.

 

[SmartIdiot]

I can see why you think we won't see eye to eye on it. We probably won't.

The kind of laziness I refer to, at least, is inexcusable. I'm talking really easy things to do which barely take up any of your time. Taking out the trash, washing the dishes, getting a job, renewing your road tax, bothering your ass to learn the most simple tasks involved in your job as you get paid the same as everyone else. These kinds of things are not demanding.

I can't see how not wanting a job is a hard concept. Assuming you normally sleep 8 hours a day, and spend 16 dicking about, doing whatever the hell you want. Then you suddenly have to cut your "dicking about time" in half, and go to work for 8 hours. Add the facts that now you have to wake up at certain hours, and you might even have to stress about the work in your free time.

Going from the carefree 8 hours of bed and 16h of whatever you want, to 8h of unconsciousness, 8h of work (which you might hate), and 8h of being depressed because it's still not friday, doesn't seem like a good deal at all. Effectively you're living 1/3 of the life you're given, which is half of what you had, before you got a job.

Well sure, if you go about things conventionally. What I've been referring to throughout this thread though is the kind of people who don't bother to do anything, then whine when they discover their life sucks and it's because they never bothered their asses to do anything. When I say getting a job it doesn't necessarily have to be a soul-destroying affair which is where a lot of people aren't thinking outside of the box.

How about a job as a level designer? Or character artist? Sound production? Stage direction? Fuck, even travelling around in a van with 3 or 4 other musicians on pennies a day just to rock out at night. These (and many other passions) are all jobs too you know. It doesn't have to be a grind, it requires hard work but people can at least be doing something they enjoy.

Failing that, sometimes people have to know when to compromise to get to where they want to be. I was taught from a very young age that if I wanted anything in this life I had to earn it/do it myself. So currently I'm working an anti-social bar job to be able to fund my plans for later on in the year, it's not fantastic but it beats my last job (try 3 hours sleep and 18 hours of work, you may get where I'm coming from) and allows me enough free time to prepare for what I'm getting into.

 

[BlueTomfoolery]

World of Warcraft made me lose my friends. all of a sudden i'm being alienated out of conversations because i don't understand their WoW lingo. instead of talking about Seinfeld I get to hear them talk about their raids or whatever.

Soooo yeah, I don't like conversations about WoW.