Federal Ruling Challenges Validity of Used Software Sales

[shadow skill]

when you buy a book, read it, and then want to sell it, then that's perfectly normal. it allows other people to enjoy a book, they get a lower price, and you get some money back.
but you don't see authors in an uproar, telling people they only bought the license to read their work.

But you will, if these sorts of rulings stand. Everyone will try and "license" their product rather than sell it to prevent the used-market sales. Books? No, you bought a non-transferable license to that block of paper - you're not allowed to resell it. Your friend will have to buy a brand new copy. Of course, your license doesn't entitle you to any sort of support or warranty, either.

The only things that will be sold under that plan are pure consumables - food, electricity, that sorta thing.

Any attempt to limit the aftermarket redistribution of books will be bitchslapped with the fact libraries exist, are government entities, are a staple of civilization, etc.

Not to mention, every read of a book damages it. How much depending on the person. Libraries typically sink thousands into repair, maintenance, and occasionally, digitization of books. Paper rots, ink fades, bindings break, glue breaks down. Meaning used books are worth less than even what used book stores charge for them.

While video games... are not damaged by plays, are subject to a very limited number of rare denigration issues (DVD rot being more a symptom of improper storage or weird chemical reactions in the glue). They are consumable products not affected in any real way by the act of consumption. Which makes them utterly unique and entitled different treatment than any other product in existence.

-snip-

Without the used aftermarket, its in the best interest of developers/publishers to re-release games the same way print publishers commission multiple printings of books.

If you store written works properly they can last for thousands of years. Anyone who tells you that digital storage media does not degrade is mistaken. Solid state drives wear out faster than standard magnetic drives, and standard drives are usually rated at around ten years time before failure.

 

[Cynical skeptic]

But let's ignore books: why couldn't the licensing stunt work for your computer monitor? Your stereo system? Your desk? Being able to force people to buy new every time is a wet dream to any supplier.

There'd be more ways around that than anyone could imagine. The only times you can force people to buy new is when you control distribution or the primary markets. Even if large retailers could no longer carry used games, flea markets, yard sales, street vendors, and ebay are all but outside the scope of liability or law.

Also, that licensing scheme you talk about is already employed by film's interactions with rental chains. The chains have a choice between handing over a large portion of the proceeds or buying rental licenses at something around $100 per copy. The video game industry can't negotiate something like that, because no matter how much money they'd make from selling rental licenses or getting a portion of rental proceeds, if blockbuster had [game] out before it was available for purchase, they'd only sell fewer copies. ... er, tangent.

As for my monitor, I've got an old trinitron CRT sitting on my desk. Its been demoted to secondary because it takes several days for the tubes to initialize if it so much as goes into standby mode. I'm seriously considering buying a new monitor as most CRTs are dead and old LCDs are beyond worthless.

If you store written works properly they can last for thousands of years. Anyone who tells you that digital storage media does not degrade is mistaken. Solid state drives wear out faster than standard magnetic drives, and standard drives are usually rated at around ten years time before failure.

Yea yea yea, I've seen you go through this before, according to you, digital media degrades the instant it touches air and is worthless within months.(warning, the aforementioned contains snarky amounts of hyperbole) Fact is, digital media degrades independent of use if not handled by eight year olds or complete morons. Which does make it unique.

But I'll say one thing, the definition of "proper storage" of written text is "vacuum sealed box, never to be read or handled."

 

[HyenaThePirate]

I have a question perhaps someone can answer?
I can see this having an effect on american resale markets, but when exactly did laws in one country suddenly become "global law?"

The way people talk, this ruling could effect the ENTIRE GAME MARKET of the WORLD.
Even if this stands in America, it wouldn't necessarily mean the same thing in Britain, France, South Africa, South Korea, or any other gaming market.

Here's the thing; if I understand it right; if something flies legally in one country more often than not other countries that hold similar sets of laws and government systems will attempt to do the same thing. There's also the fact that there are treaties between countries and all one country needs to do to place pressure on the other is to play the "you're violating our treaty" card.

Thus it's reasonably safe to assume that should something of this magnitude occur in one country (specifically the country who has more guns than it does sane people) other countries will begin to follow suite as the industry puts pressure on politicians and the politicians in turn place pressure on global leaders.

Apply pressure for used game sells? Really?! I'd rather just boycott video games then. If I can't get them used, then I'd refuse to play them until they released the "Bargain" version for $19.99. Apparently these corporations forget that WE the consumer, not them, hold the REAL power. If they didn't price games so ridiculously to begin with, then we wouldn't have need for Used game stores. And no one has yet to explain to me why games need to cost $60. Yes, they have high development budgets, sometimes as much as 100 million dollars. But so do films. And they don't cost $60 on Dvd. To me, it's corporate greed, no more no less.

Anyway, I doubt this matters. If anything it'll just flame up the piracy factor. Either way, people who don't want to pay whatever the game companies demand will find ways around it, either by piracy, by trading and selling used games ANYWAY, renting games (which is funny, because why aren't gaming companies going after Gamefly and Blockbuster?), or by going after far cheaper alternatives such as indie alternatives. I seriously doubt these companies will be able to police craigslist and other such sites.

 

[matrix3509]

This is why parasitic companies like AutoCAD and Adobe need to burn in hell. Fuck you, I'm not paying 100 some-odd dollars to use one video editing program of questionable quality.

 

[Rubashov]

Every day the free market dies just a little bit more. Curse you, Keynesian economics! Where's F. A. Hayek when you need him?

...Eh? What does Keynesianism have to do with anything?

 

[matrix3509]

Apply pressure for used game sells? Really?! I'd rather just boycott video games then. If I can't get them used, then I'd refuse to play them until they released the "Bargain" version for $19.99. Apparently these corporations forget that WE the consumer, not them, hold the REAL power. If they didn't price games so ridiculously to begin with, then we wouldn't have need for Used game stores. And no one has yet to explain to me why games need to cost $60. Yes, they have high development budgets, sometimes as much as 100 million dollars. But so do films. And they don't cost $60 on Dvd. To me, it's corporate greed, no more no less.

Games cost $60 (or more) because of the tards that willingly pay $60 for them (i.e. Modern Warfare 2). The last game I bought for full price was Starcraft 2. Before Starcraft 2, the last game I bought full price was more than 11 years ago: The original Starcraft.

 

[manaman]

This software came in a physical form. So there had to be a sale. Someone should inform the Supreme Court and Autodesk, that they have just failed to remember the definitions of the words they are using

It wasn't the Supreme Court. This is the mother of all stupid federal courts, the 9th circuit court. They seem to be in the current administrations back pocket, and very friendly to big buisness. Something like this will eventually be taken to the Supreme Court and struck down.

It's a shame that the 9th circuit court is so willing to legislate from the bench.

 

[matrix3509]

Every day the free market dies just a little bit more. Curse you, Keynesian economics! Where's F. A. Hayek when you need him?

...Eh? What does Keynesianism have to do with anything?

Because Keynesian economic model advocates government intervention in the private sector, whether its good or bad for the consumer isn't regarded as important.

 

[Xanthious]

It's almost like the videogame/software industry WANTS people to pirate their products. . . .

 

[Cynical skeptic]

Every day the free market dies just a little bit more. Curse you, Keynesian economics! Where's F. A. Hayek when you need him?

...Eh? What does Keynesianism have to do with anything?

Because Keynesian economic model advocates government intervention in the private sector, whether its good or bad for the consumer isn't regarded as important.

Well, the consumer isn't important in a perfectly free market either.

So I guess both extremes are evenly terrible!

It's almost like the videogame/software industry WANTS people to pirate their products. . . .

Well... think about it.

Who profits from piracy?

Who profits from used games?

Hint: the publisher/developer doesn't profit in either situation.

 

[lacktheknack]

Uh last time I checked, a "license" had to be renewed after a set period of time, whereas a "sale" was a one time cash payment in return for product or service. Since the purchasing of software clearly falls under the latter category, I fail to see how this claim is valid.

HUSH UP.

Don't think they won't stoop that low.

 

[Grimrider6]

I'm not an economist, and I don't understand the finer points of the free market or market theory. So perhaps my opinions are naive and misinformed.

...but doesn't this proposed legislation essentially say "the consumer doesn't own software, just pays for the right to use it"? I can't see how that would only apply to retailers like GameStop. Wouldn't this criminalize me for selling on my copy of, say, Arkham Asylum to my friend after I no longer want to play it? Perhaps my ignorance of how the market works means I can't figure out what's best for me here, but I start to feel very uncomfortable when told that I don't own that thing I paid money for and brought home. If it's a rental and I have to return it when I'm done, sure. I get that. But if I buy it, I want to actually own it.

There'd be more ways around that than anyone could imagine. The only times you can force people to buy new is when you control distribution or the primary markets. Even if large retailers could no longer carry used games, flea markets, yard sales, street vendors, and ebay are all but outside the scope of liability or law.

Are they? Wasn't the case cited in this article about an eBay auction being shut down? I also can't imagine what would stop the cops from showing up to a yard sale/flea market at the behest of Sony Electronics Corporation to serve a Cease and Desist notice on somebody reselling their used TV, if the right laws were put in place.

I'm just concerned at how, over the years, the consumer's ability to DO anything with what they buy seems to be shrinking. Sony shutting out the ability for the PS3 to use other operating systems, Apple limiting the user's ability to tweak their device, even to the point of making changing the batteries something only a trained technician can do...

I'm afraid I'm coming across as a ranting conspiracy nut here, and I don't want to, but it feels like people are being railroaded into being nothing but end users, while manufacturers and retailers (in their fear of piracy and unlicensed use threatening their bottom line) are hobbling the ability of the public to transform the primary product and become creative in their own right. It seems stifling and stagnating, like paying for a set of shackles.

Anyways, I'll wait patiently here for somebody to tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[lacktheknack]

And no one has yet to explain to me why games need to cost $60. Yes, they have high development budgets, sometimes as much as 100 million dollars. But so do films. And they don't cost $60 on Dvd. To me, it's corporate greed, no more no less.

DVDs sell a ton more then games.

Think about it... Kids, teens, soccer moms, singles, couples, and seniors all buy DVDs.

Game sales are mostly relegated to teens, and much, MUCH fewer sales in the other markets.

 

[Someperson307]

Well, this is a rather nasty turn of events. I don't what I'd do if the used game market was obliterated. Actually, now that I think about it, I could just pirate games! This will not end well for gamers or developers.

 

[Cynical skeptic]

-snip-

Suing the individual seller != suing ebay

 

[Antari]

Ya know theres a simple solution to all of this people. STOP BUYING NEW SOFTWARE UNTIL THE INDUSTRY REALIZES WE ARE NOT HAPPY!

 

[Cynical skeptic]

Ya know theres a simple solution to all of this people. STOP BUYING NEW SOFTWARE UNTIL THE INDUSTRY REALIZES WE ARE NOT HAPPY!

Heh, find me a single boycott that has worked.

 

[Indignation837]

Well, if all you have to do to change the way games are sold is to change the wording, you could just say you're "permanantly renting out" your used games. No sale = problem solved.

 

[Antari]

Ya know theres a simple solution to all of this people. STOP BUYING NEW SOFTWARE UNTIL THE INDUSTRY REALIZES WE ARE NOT HAPPY!

Heh, find me a single boycott that has worked.

Might as well start trying. Not many seem to be taking note that if the game isn't that great maybe they shouldn't buy it. My days in front line gaming are pretty much done. I'm sick and tired of dealing with companies like this. I'd really rather go outside and watch the grass grow, than waste another dollar on a big steaming pile of crap, they try to pawn off as the best thing since sliced bread.