Feds bust 72 users of a child porn forum.

[CM156_v1legacy]

There's a difference between saying "They need help" and "We shouldn't punish them for watching CP". I say that yes, they should get help. But part of that is admiting you've a problem and that what is being done is wrong. Imagine if we did the same with AA. "What you guys are doing is beyond your controll". That absolves them of reasons to correct their actions.

You seem to be arguing that rather then punish these people for exploiting children, we should just send them to therapy. And that's were I say "No".

I never said their actions weren't wrong and I never said they shouldn't be made aware of that. However, they have a mental illness. What I'm saying is that you should not punish them for viewing child pornography but instead help them cope with their illness. Sending them to jail will only exacerbate an already existing condition and frankly putting pedophiles in the same category as child molesters is just plain fucking stupid.

No, I don't believe we should punish them. They did not molest children, they watched child pornography. There's a huge fucking difference between the two. They need help, not jailtime.

And I disagree.

They are helping create a demand for this sort of stuff. It's sick, twisted, demented, and flat out wrong. In my opinion, jail is too good for them

But I grow tired of this debate. I'll let you have the last word.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Only 30 years? That's not nearly harsh enough! You need to lock these bastards in some medieval style dungeon for the rest of their miserable lives.

Murder rates re very high for people like this in prison. All likely hood they will die in prison from a shank before there term is up. They deserve it and anything else that happens to them.

Nah, death is too good for them. I'd rather they suffer.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

And I disagree.

They are helping create a demand for this sort of stuff. It's sick, twisted, demented, and flat out wrong. In my opinion, jail is too good for them

But I grow tired of this debate. I'll let you have the last word.

Very well. People who upload child pornography on the internet obviously do not do so for profit. Still, they should be punished. They abused a child and above all posted that video on the internet for millions to see. Pedophiles on the other hand have a mental illness and punishing them for viewing child pornography is the same with punishing a person who suffers from anxiety disorder for having a panic attack. They have a mental illness and they need help, not punishment.

 

[orangeapples]

As much as I want these people to suffer, it isn't going to help.

Under the old system of justice where is a thief is caught that thief gets their hand chopped off. Then every person will see that they had their hand chopped off and know that person is a thief. People still stole stuff. It didn't stop them. For some the reason they stole was the thrill of the walking the razor's edge and knowing the consequence.

Death wont stop them, it just forces them to be more sneaky.

Should these people get help? yes. but where is the line drawn? I say that they broke the law and shouldn't have the full protection of said law. I believe that is true of all criminals. I have no idea why criminals have all the rights of law biding citizens when they themselves rejected those laws. A first time offender doesn't mean that it was their first time committing a crime, it only means it was their first time getting caught. Why is there such a 'fuck the system, unless it helps me then it is okay' mentality. If we only followed the rules we like then what is the point of having them?

I remember that there was a group of people lobbying for sex offenders to be allowed to live in houses near schools and parks. They didn't even need to prove that they had gone through rehabilitation.

I mean, the reason we have prisons was because there was a group of people who felt that death was too harsh a punishment for breaking the law. Now there are other groups of people who feel that prison is too harsh a punishment for breaking the law. We even have people who feel that slapping a child on the wrist for breaking the rules is too much of a punishment. Discipline has to start somewhere people; humans learn how to play the system very quickly and children are no different. Why else do you think that there are parents afraid of their kids?

This whole "we need to help people" idea and the "love and peace" approach will only help so much.

If a person commits mass murder and says that God/Allah/the neighbor's cat told them to kill those people, we look at those people and go, "hmmm... no. You go to jail." If you believe that pedophiles are just mentally disabled and should get psychological help and not prison time them you are also arguing that Hitler and Jack the Ripper only needed some psychological help. All people, even those with mental disabilities, know that there are consequences to their actions. We are doing no one any favors by not having consequences.

Those child pornographers are sick in the head and they know child porn is wrong. Because why else would they have to go to a secret website that is hidden away in the deepest darkest places of the internet? You can google the word 'porn' and find porn sites on the first page. If you google 'child porn' you get page after page after page of new, law and psychological studies. (I just tested this, not that I've searched for it in the past >_>). The only way you could ever get to their child porn page is if you knew a guy who knew a guy who has connections that could get you to a child porn website.

Really all we can do is uphold the letter of the law and make no exceptions. And please don't say we need a separate jail for those mental disabilities, because we all know how well Arkham Asylum worked out.

 

[Cap'n Moe]

Exploiting children, abuse, sexual or not. These people will suffer in prison, you would be surprised the demographic in prison systems that have inmates with children, and word in a small prison community travels fast. They can be protected by wardens and guards all they want, but the minute that some murderer, or anyone who is big, bad and a proud owner of a very short temper gets wind of joe blow who sexually exploited a 10 year old girl, and the same big bad angry bastard has a 10 year old daughter waiting for him on the outside, you can bet your bottom dollar...he will find a way to make his time in prison the worst years of his existence. I want to say that maybe 1-5 of those 72 that go to jail, will make it through the sentence alive.

 

[Baneat]

as long as they don't hurt children why the fuck should anyone care what they masturbate to, you people make me sick, if a pedophile rapes or does something like that to a child lock him up for good but if a pedophile just faps to images of naked children WHY THE FUCK SHOULD YOU CARE, THEY AREN'T HURTING ANYONE. I hope my children can live in a world where anyone can do whatever the fuck they want as long as they don't hurt others. Seriously this was done to they gays before, they're "unnatural" we should kill them, heck it's still done in a few countries.

By viewing such material you are supporting the act in itself and by extension harming. Especially to the nth degree if any money is changing hands.

"You people make me sick" - Really?

Note: Drawn stuff.. bit more difficult, I'll err on the side of it really does no harm.

Welcome to voodoo logic:

http://human-stupidity.com/stupid-dogma/child-porn-witch-hunt/watching-child-pornography-victimizes-child-voodoo-science

Hm.. skimmed for now, read more later, but the analogy's a little different for me because nazi footage is viewed as a lesson learned not to follow the horror, and the behavious is not encouraged.

But jeez the guy's a little insulting isn't he?

 

[KiqJaq]

Because with time people will come to associate pedophilia with being a mental illness and fucking a child with rape and child abuse. Because at the very least those pedophiles would learn how to control their urges and manage to live a relatively decent life. Because at the very least we wouldn't be condemning people who suffer from a mental illness to jail.

Granted, maybe not all pedophiles are in need of therapy as long as they do not abuse children. Still...

And there's no stigma against mental illnesses? >.>

I said I agreed with not jailing people based on thought crime. No argument there.

I never said homosexuality was not normal human sexual behaviour. During our entire discussion I proclaimed pedophilia to be a deviation of normal human sexual behaviour and that through the use of therapy and certain drugs those urges could be controlled if not downright removed.

Homosexuality is normal and has always been normal.

I think you missed the point of that bit entirely.
I wasn't calling you homophobic. It was more about how, in the past, people have tried to "cure" a person of their unusual sexual attractions against the person's will, almost invariably with disgusting consequences as well as clear breaches of basic human rights.

And you're not doing a great job of convincing me that you're much different.

But it IS a mental illness. I've already explained countless times why and I don't feel the need to do so again. I understand why you might be reluctant to say it is, since you supposedly have a friend who is a pedophile. Still, it is an abnormal deviation of human sexual tendencies and is classified as a mental illness

By that definition nearly every unusual fetish is an illness that needs treatment (which, again, is what brought up homosexuality in my last post).
The clinical definition of most mental illnesses includes a clause about how it's only an illness if it either significantly impedes the person's ability to function in some way, or causes them to be a danger to themselves or others. Sexual attraction does not present any danger. If attraction were as irresistible as you seem to believe, then rape would be much more commonplace than it is.

Here's the clinically classified definition that I could find (off Wikipedia >.> but it cited a real manual):
"Pedophilia is a paraphilia in which a person has intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about prepubescent children and on which feelings they have either acted or which cause distress or interpersonal difficulty.""

Notice how it's not an illness until it's so extreme that they act on it or get distressed over it?

The fact is that most people have self-control. "My right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins," obviously still holds true, but my right shouldn't end any sooner than that and neither should anyone else's.

That is true, however all mental illnesses have the potential to degenerate into something much worse.

We all have the potential to do horrible things, and with a definition of illness so broad that the only criterion is abnormality we may all be ill in some way.

I'm not saying we should. However, this is a slippery slope. Would a pedophile willingly go to therapy once their illness becomes to hard to manage by themselves? There's already a huge stigma associated with mental illnesses but the stigma associated with pedophilia is much higher.

I suffer from Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I refused to receive help and there was a time when I had panic attacks almost every few hours. I'm not saying eventually a pedophile will rape a child but it is not entirely unfeasable and I believe removing the stigma associated with pedophilia is the first step in giving the pedophiles a reason to treat seek help for their disorder.

It depends on the person. Many people seek help when they can't manage themselves, yes. The ones who don't, and who harm others as a result, should have measures taken upon them to prevent further harm coming to others.

 

[robot slipper]

Yes, I mentioned that about halfway through my post. I would like to consider myself to be a better person than a child rapist, but then again I don't really feel compelled to protect someone who has shown no compassion to an innocent child. Therein lies the moral dilema.

An individual showed no compassion towards another individual and then another individual showed no compassion towards that individual. In this case, both the children and you are individuals. What's the difference? There is none.

I'm not saying you should show compassion if you can't, I'm saying you should at the very least recognize the fact that these people have a mental illness that needs to be treated.

If this is a double post, I apologize.

I recognise that people with mental illnesses need treatment. But, I don't think the people who were involved in this case were suffering so badly from a mental illness that they could not control their actions. Obtaining a child and videotaping the rape of that child involves a lot of planning and premeditation. That does not happen by accident, or in the heat of the moment, or in an act of insanity. These people chose to do it because they enjoyed the rape and torture of children. These people were totally in control of their mental faculties when they committed these crimes.

All I was saying above is that it's hard to have compassion for someone who commits a violent act and shows no regard or compassion for their victim. It all well and nice to say that everyone should show compassion for everyone else, including child rapists, but this is the real world after all. Come on.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

I want the FBI to actively go out and hunt the actual Pedo's comitting the more serious crime and then proper justice shall be done.

 

[Jonabob87]

Yeah because these things are reported in that sort of detail. You honestly think people just decide one day "I think I'll make child pornography". No, that is a thought that is developed, like most ideas. Human nature is to become numb to things that stay on the same level, and so we go for more extreme things, and once that gets boring we move on again.

This is how people get in to hard drugs and/or organised crime. It will work the same was for child porn, and child abuse.

It's the reason why everything is so full of gratuitous sex and violence these days, compared to the 50 for example. It's just not shocking any more, so we take it up a notch.

By this logic we should illegalize sex, because once people get bored with sex they'll inevitably kick it up a notch to rape.

No, that's retarded. Sex and rape are two very different things, one just happens to encompass the other.

 

[Nickolai77]

72 arrests of people whom have been quite clearly distributing abusive child pornography is good, but i'm sure that's only the tip of the iceberg.

I seem to remember, and i don't remember where or what it was exactly, reading about European cyber-police monitoring internet traffic get something like tens of thousands of searches for child porn a week. Still, if the police could magically find everyone involved in making and sharing CP there wouldn't be enough room in the worlds prisons to intern them all.

Same goes for illegal drugs i suppose.

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

Is this in the U.S.? Because I hate the thought of having to support this people for 30 years through taxes. They'll just come out of jail even sicker than before. Hope someone ends them in prison.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

To begin, I feel like lolicon is just drawings. No children are abused for that, so I don't care. Anime girls don't even really look much like real-life girls, and again, drawings.

But seriously, people here are defending real-life, actual factual child porn? Dude, these kids are too young to fully understand anything! Their bodies, how they are being taken advantage of (consent given or not), the consequences of getting involved in this industry so young... We can't excuse this behavior or try to justify those who create a demand for it. It's not just the pornographers' faults, because if there was no demand they wouldn't make it!

lol yeah, everyone already said this... Late to the party again.

 

[cobra_ky]

Yeah because these things are reported in that sort of detail. You honestly think people just decide one day "I think I'll make child pornography". No, that is a thought that is developed, like most ideas. Human nature is to become numb to things that stay on the same level, and so we go for more extreme things, and once that gets boring we move on again.

This is how people get in to hard drugs and/or organised crime. It will work the same was for child porn, and child abuse.

It's the reason why everything is so full of gratuitous sex and violence these days, compared to the 50 for example. It's just not shocking any more, so we take it up a notch.

By this logic we should illegalize sex, because once people get bored with sex they'll inevitably kick it up a notch to rape.

No, that's retarded. Sex and rape are two very different things, one just happens to encompass the other.

you're the one suggesting that jacking off to cartoons leads to child molestation.

 

[bitCrusher]

Pedophilia is a mental disorder. If the users of those forums did not create the child porn themselves then sentencing them to a prison will serve only to aggravate their situation. We should help them deal with their illness rather than ostracize them for having it.

^ I fully support the solution above.


freakin calm down everyone, jeez...

 

[6SteW6]

In addition, the most exclusive area of the site was reserved for members who could provide content that showed children suffering. "If the girl looks totally comfortable, she's not in distress, it does NOT belong I this section."

They need to castrate these bastards, every last one of them. I wish the death sentence could be extended to these freaks, it should apply. You cause a child that much mental anguish then as far as I'm concerned you have taken their lives and deserve to have yours taken in return. It makes me sick to be the same species as these people.

 

[Savryc]

Humans are social creatures, it's hard-wired into our brain to protect our young and the young of the tribe from all threats. Pedophiles are a threat and unless we pull the ability to predict the future with 100% accuracy from somewhere even the non-rapey bunch are still a potential threat. All this unbridled rage towards those that harm children, sexually or otherwise (child killers stand about the same chance as nonces in prison) is standard human behaviour and won't be going away any time soon.

My personal opinions on this topic? While my brain tells me that this is a primal reaction and that 30 years in jail is enough of a punishment my gut still hopes the lags are sharpening the shivs...

 

[emeraldrafael]

Only 13? well, its only a matter of time.

I hear prisoners dont like these kinda people. have fun with that.

 

[Tommeh Brownleh]

and its people like this that make me want to go out and stab everyone I see.