Female Friendzone?

[Lilani]

Here's the problem, though. Like I said in my earlier post in this thread, girls are really bad about actually saying no to those timid guys. They tend to couch it in a lot of caveats in the hopes of not hurting their feelings, but let's just say leaving a sliver of hope is a really bad idea, for both parties. It's a product of the differences in the way boys and girls are socialized in Western society, combined with romantic inexperience. That is not a good mixture.

I still can't think of a situation in which asking the right questions and taking the right cues can't solve the problem. If you're constantly getting brushed off, then that's a pretty clear sign of a "no." That isn't just in relationships, that's a pretty standard thing when socializing with people. And if you don't get an answer that's clear enough, ask her again, right there. Say you don't understand. Say you want to make it clear. If you want her to give you a straight answer, then you might have to work at it and make sure she knows it's safe to give you the harsher answer. Because yes, girls and guys are socialized differently, and girls like to avoid giving out total rejection if they see it's not necessary, or if they feel the straight answer will cause unnecessary social repercussions (drawing attention to the situation and rejection, causing you pain around your peers, having to reject you in words that may not adequately express what they mean because they need to say it so directly, etc).

If she wants the relationship to happen, it'll happen. If she's legitimately busy and she really is interested in hanging out with you, then she'll facilitate rescheduling those plans. Yes girls will often wait for the guys to make the first move, but when you make that first move they will make their feelings known when you give them that opportunity.

 

[Evil Smurf]

The "friendzone" does not exist: Man up, grow a pair and ask said person of desire out. If you are rejected, realise that not everyone want to get in your pants.

If you want to get laid so badly go to a bar and get some floozy drunk.

It's dismissals like these that make me sad. Dismissals like these that make the friendzone all the more lonely.

It's not about sex. It's not even about the object of desire. It's the crushing knowledge that you are not good enough -not for her- and, apparently, not for anyone.

The friendzone does exist. I have tread that lonely valley before. It is not a matter of 'sacking up'. If no one wants you; the sack gets you no further be it full or empty.

It sounds like you want friendship. This sounds brash, but how hard is it to go up to classmates or someone at a cafe and just talk to them? Seriously I've no issue with talking to people and making friends.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I just realized that I've hardly ever seen any girls talk/complain about being in the friendzone when it comes to their guy friends, so I was just wondering whether this is less common.

That's because the "friendzone" is something some guys make up because they can't comprehend the fact that a woman might want to be just friends.

There's this weird myth that if you asked a girl out before you became friends, it would matter.

It doesn't.

If she would have dated you then, she would date you now (in most cases, obviously certain individuals may vary, but not to the insane degree some guys seem to think).

Typically, when a girl says "I just want to be friends" it is because she only ever wanted to be friends with you.

Sometimes we really do just want friendship.

 

[norashepard]

I've been friendzoned by a few guys (and girls), but they were usually way out of my league anyway, so I didn't really care. But on the general idea of the friendzone: I think it's rather silly. It isn't a real thing, and nobody should feel bad if they end up in it, but unfortunately that's what everyone seems to default to.

There are a million reasons a woman (or man) wouldn't want to date you at any given time, zero of which have to do with you 'not being good enough'. Maybe she needs to focus on career. Maybe she just got out of a relationship and doesn't want another. Maybe she's gay! Also, if none of those matter to you, recall that people have preferences that nobody can control. I like dark eyes, for example. It's a stupid reason to turn someone down just based on that, but if I barely know you and have nothing else to go on, you bet I'll say no. Long story short, sometimes people turn you down! In fact, I bet most people would turn down almost everyone else. That's why finding someone who will tolerate you is so exciting.

I just get really sad when I see all these people beating themselves up about something so tiny.

As to the OT more specifically, both genders experience rejection, but women (in general) feel a lot less entitled to relationships(sex) than men do, so it's not as big of a slap in the face when someone turns them down. That's probably why it's never talked about.

 

[wulf3n]

That's because the "friendzone" is something guys make up because they can't comprehend the fact that a woman might want to be just friends.

No, it's something guys made up because they realise sometimes woman just wants to be friends.

It's not some excuse, "Oh the only reason she didn't want to go out with me is because I fell into the friend-zone", it's "She doesn't want to go out with me, i'm in the friend zone"

 

[Abomination]

If I wanted to be romantic with a girl and she didn't then I just cut all ties with her.

About 20% of the time she would approach me within a few days accepting my offer. But as you say, your position in a negotiation is never more powerful than the moment you show you're not interested.

Can a woman be put into the "friendzone"? I suppose it's possible but I can't see it being probable. Women - provided they are at least a 5/10 - can generally always settle for 'second best' whereas males are encouraged to invest more time to woo a lady and tend to focus on one woman at a time.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Here's the problem, though. Like I said in my earlier post in this thread, girls are really bad about actually saying no to those timid guys. They tend to couch it in a lot of caveats in the hopes of not hurting their feelings, but let's just say leaving a sliver of hope is a really bad idea, for both parties. It's a product of the differences in the way boys and girls are socialized in Western society, combined with romantic inexperience. That is not a good mixture.

I still can't think of a situation in which asking the right questions and taking the right cues can't solve the problem. If you're constantly getting brushed off, then that's a pretty clear sign of a "no." That isn't just in relationships, that's a pretty standard thing when socializing with people. And if you don't get an answer that's clear enough, ask her again, right there. Say you don't understand. Say you want to make it clear. If you want her to give you a straight answer, then you might have to work at it and make sure she knows it's safe to give you the harsher answer. Because yes, girls and guys are socialized differently, and girls like to avoid giving out total rejection if they see it's not necessary, or if they feel the straight answer will cause unnecessary social repercussions (drawing attention to the situation and rejection, causing you pain around your peers, having to reject you in words that may not adequately express what they mean because they need to say it so directly, etc).

If she wants the relationship to happen, it'll happen. If she's legitimately busy and she really is interested in hanging out with you, then she'll facilitate rescheduling those plans. Yes girls will often wait for the guys to make the first move, but when you make that first move they will make their feelings known when you give them that opportunity.

And the problem here is you're telling me this. I figured it out years ago, and you'll notice I'm not whining about being in the friend zone. We're talking about socially awkward high school and early college aged boys here, they're not especially good at the whole human interaction thing even before you throw unclear statements into the mix. This is not the fault of the guys, and it's not the fault of the girls. It's a problem with inexperience and differences in the way members of each gender are encouraged to communicate while growing up. Which is why I get really annoyed when I see threads like these fill up with people putting the blame entirely on one gender or the other.

Edit: Point is, it's a bad idea to expect socially awkward males to read subtle cues. For that matter, it's a bad idea to expect /any/ male to be able to understand stuff like that coming from a woman he's attracted to. It's just worse for the ones who are already bad at social interaction.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

No, it's something guys made up because they realise sometimes woman just wants to be friends.

It's not some excuse, "Oh the only reason she didn't want to go out with me is because I fell into the friend-zone", it's "She doesn't want to go out with me, i'm in the friend zone"

Not all guys treat it that way.

But you did make me realize something, and I have edited my previous post. I should have said "some guys" because not all guys use it as an excuse. Some do, but not all (fortunately). And some use it like you did, which doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Tom Waits' hat]

I never really have a friend that's a girl that I don't want to sleep with. I think that's the main issue. I'm talking about friend friend here. Not those simple "Hey, how's it going" as you walk past type of friends.

 

[Joseph Harrison]

Basically I agree with what's already been said. Because guys are the ones who "typically" (not always of course) make the first move its not really an issue for girls. Also as others have said, basically if you are a girl and you have male friends, at least one of those friends wants to have sex with you if not all of them. Girls usually have someone to fall back on so its not that bad. I actually like the analogy that somebody up there used. If a girl can't get her first draft pick she can usually get her second, whereas for a guy there may be no options available and nobody told them what sport they're playing.

You see it in movies and stuff. The basic premise is a girl who doesn't necessarily conform to the "feminine ideal" and enjoys traditionally male activities and hangs out with guys, maybe one of them is someone she secretly likes. Her friends tell her that that guy will never like her because he just sees her as "one of the guys" or something. I'm sure it doesn't happen to be in those EXACT circumstances, so yeah.

I don't think this happens this often in the real world, if one of my tomboy friends secretly liked me it would be like winning the fucking lottery. I think its easier for guys to think of a girl as a potential mate instead of just friends than it is for girls. Like for example, even my female friends that I have no interest in pursuing romantically, boobs are still boobs and if they like fucking showed up at my house naked and wanted to have sex, I'm not sure if I would decline.

 

[Right Hook]

I'm pretty certain I've friendzoned girls before, like when you can tell they like you but you make it obvious you aren't looking for anything so it doesn't get to the point where you have to actually spell it out for them. I tend to think they just don't openly complain about it, at least not in front of guys. It'd explain why you rarely hear of it, also dudes just tend to seem more desperate in general and feel they HAVE to have her specifically.

 

[wulf3n]

No, it's something guys made up because they realise sometimes woman just wants to be friends.

It's not some excuse, "Oh the only reason she didn't want to go out with me is because I fell into the friend-zone", it's "She doesn't want to go out with me, i'm in the friend zone"

Not all guys treat it that way.

But you did make me realize something, and I have edited my previous post. I should have said "some guys" because not all guys use it as an excuse. Some do, but not all (fortunately). And some use it like you did, which doesn't bother me at all.

I did it as well, implying No guy uses it as an excuse is untrue.

Though It could be the guys that use it as an excuse aren't wrong in the sense that they may have been "dateable" once, but when the woman got to know them better they were turned off.

Just a theory.

 

[00slash00]

the friend zone doesnt exist, so no, its not a huge problem for women. i know its a comforting thought to look at it as "this person isnt rejecting me because something is wrong with me, they are rejecting me because im too right for them and they only want someone who is bad for them." i do know women who complain about the friend zone. hell, taylor swift pretty much built her career off complaining about the friend zone. but if a woman doesnt want to date me and says im too nice or whatever, i can assume that they just arent in to me and want to spare my feelings (rather than just assume that theyre too stupid to see what an awesome girlfriend i would be).

sorry if this seemed harsh or rude, i just get annoyed by people (male and female) complaining about the friend zone

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I did it as well, implying No guy uses it as an excuse is untrue.
Though It could be the guys that use it as an excuse aren't wrong in the sense that they may have been "dateable" once, but when the woman got to know them better they were turned off.
Just a theory.

I've always preferred the phrase "she's just not that into you". Or "he's just not that into you" depending on who I'm talking about.

the friend zone doesnt exist, so no, its not a huge problem for women. i know its a comforting thought to look at it as "this person isnt rejecting me because something is wrong with me, they are rejecting me because im too right for them and they only want someone who is bad for them." i do know women who complain about the friend zone. hell, taylor swift pretty much built her career off complaining about the friend zone. but if a woman doesnt want to date me and says im too nice or whatever, i can assume that they just arent in to me and want to spare my feelings (rather than just assume that theyre too stupid to see what an awesome girlfriend i would be).
sorry if this seemed harsh or rude, i just get annoyed by people (male and female) complaining about the friend zone

Indeed. I hate it when the phrase is used as an excuse - as if relationships come with an expiration date.

Preach on sister!

 

[Ryotknife]

which friendzone definition? because on the escapist there are like a dozen different definitions (same with other things like Patriarchy and white knighting).

Ive seen friendzone definition that makes the individual look like a cross between a stalker and a serial killer on these forums often.

The one ive always used was more of a "sucks to be you" definition.

 

[manic_depressive13]

I was rejected once but since people are apparently interchangeable I just fucked the next guy in the queue.

Then I got fired from that supermarket.

 

[Zanderinfal]

It exists, but I would assume it happens somewhat less. Nothing more to say on the issue, really. Simple as that.

EDIT: Fixed grammar.

 

[senordesol]

The "friendzone" does not exist: Man up, grow a pair and ask said person of desire out. If you are rejected, realise that not everyone want to get in your pants.

If you want to get laid so badly go to a bar and get some floozy drunk.

It's dismissals like these that make me sad. Dismissals like these that make the friendzone all the more lonely.

It's not about sex. It's not even about the object of desire. It's the crushing knowledge that you are not good enough -not for her- and, apparently, not for anyone.

The friendzone does exist. I have tread that lonely valley before. It is not a matter of 'sacking up'. If no one wants you; the sack gets you no further be it full or empty.

It sounds like you want friendship. This sounds brash, but how hard is it to go up to classmates or someone at a cafe and just talk to them? Seriously I've no issue with talking to people and making friends.

A. This shit's in the past. I'm married now.

B. It can be VERY hard for socially inhibited people.

C. The 'Friendzone', by definition, implies that a friendship has already been established. Sadly, for those so afflicted, such kinships tend to be rare and precious (particularly with the opposite sex)