Everything up to the hug part I do, my friends can talk to me about anything at all doesn't matter how small or often it happens.Owyn_Merrilin said:
I should note that the reason I don't give hugs is because it makes me extremely uncomfortable.
Female Perspective - Friend Zone
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I should note that the reason I don't give hugs is because it makes me extremely uncomfortable.
The fact that it makes you extremely uncomfortable should tell you something. If you're uncomfortable because you feel like its overstepping your bounds as a friend, I've pretty much proved my point. If it makes you uncomfortable due to something like asperger's syndrome, I have to question how much your mind works like the average guy's -- not because people with neurological disorders are completely different from other people, but because if yours makes physical contact awkward, you're way different from most men when it comes to male/female interactions.artanis_neravar said:
I've honestly had some confusion with this before. I've been told by many that one should become friends to get to know someone before dating, but then I've been told that people don't want to ruin friendships to date.
Is it just a matter of a girl's particular opinion, or are they just being deceptive to avoid announcing that they simply aren't interesting?
Is it just a matter of a girl's particular opinion, or are they just being deceptive to avoid announcing that they simply aren't interesting?
Neither, I will hug if they really need it, which is rarely, I just don't like them and it's just hugs any other kind of physical contact I'm fine with, arm around the shoulder, leaning on the shoulder, etcOwyn_Merrilin said:
I become friends with people because they're fun people and good company. My friends are mostly guys because my job is mostly guys and I gravitate towards interests that are more male-dominated. It has nothing to do with craving emotional support with no strings attached, that's a bit ridiculous of an assumption to make about all females. If I need "emotional support, I'd call up my mom.Owyn_Merrilin said:
Maybe your female friends are just a bit lame, just a thought.
Lets see. I was friends with a girl for a year before we starting going out currently. One of my best friends is a girl and I know I'll make a move on her eventually.... But once high schools over. I'm confident she will say yes from our conversations. But I don't want to rush these things. Being in highschool, seems sensible to wait till were out of high school to give it a real shot. I think the friend zone is just a good excuse for a girl to use instead of saying I don't like you. And a good reason for a guy for why he got rejected
That's not what I'm talking about. I was talking about a situation where a guy was absolutely showering the girl with attention, and clearly wanted to be more than friends, and while the girl didn't want that, enjoyed the attention. I have actual female friends as well, and it's a very different relationship than what that post was talking about. It doesn't help that the guy I was quoting accidentally deleted his post; it makes more sense in context.Chemical Alia said:
Edit: Actually, what I was talking about was a combination of what I described above, and what was actually going on in the post I quoted. Apparently, the poor guy was friends with this girl, and neither one of them wanted to be more than that. However, if she was going through a rough time, she would go over to his house, and they would cuddle. She even called him her "cuddle buddy." The first time he had a bad day and needed the same thing in return, she got upset, because she apparently considered it a one way deal. I wish I could remember the exact wording; it ended with a pun on the word "used."
The ladder theory is somewhat offensive and far from 100% true. Sure it's true in most cases, but not all of them. It also does not account for region, culture and age as that does change the pie charts somewhat.Hobo Steve said:
I don't like the ladder theory, in case my opinion wasn't clear with that statement. Narcissism has done no good for anyone.
Well, I'm afraid I don't have much more to say on this topic, other than what has already been said, but I'll still say a few words anyway.
Fortunately, I have never been in the friend zone, but I know a number of people who have been stuck there. For those of who don't know, the friend zone isn't sexist; in other words, it doesn't only apply to guys. There are plenty of ladies who are friends with a guy she wants to date, but for some odd reason, that guy never notices her and is busy paying attention to the scantily clad chick whose been around the block a few times. I've known these "friend zoners" even before I became interested in the dating game, and there's only one reason why I have never had the displeasure of joining their crew: my dad.
While I was growing up, one of the best words of advice he gave me was this:
"Only fools learn from their own mistakes. Wise individuals learn from the mistakes of others so as to avoid mistakes entirely."
Like I said, I've known friend zoners before I started dating, and I've seen just how miserable the lot of them are - hell, I had one friend who actually threw a tantrum one time, saying "F*** this b****! F*** the asshole she's banging! I'm done with this sh**!" It was a classic case of a poor guy being an emotional pillow for the girl he liked, seeing her go out with other dudes who end up hurting her and whatnot.
Eventually, my turn came around, and a girl I was interested in offered me the friend zone, saying, "Sorry, but I don't really like you like that. We can still be friends, though." At that instance, I remembered my pap's words: "Learn from the mistakes of others." My response: "Sorry, but I'm not interested in being your emotional garbage disposal." Nipped that in the bud right there and then, and moved on.
I've even been the supposed asshole that's dating the interest of the friend zoner. Three years ago, I was dating this one girl for about a month and half, and by that time, we were already sexually active. I met up with her at the mall one afternoon, and she introduced me to her "best friend in the world." Bet you can't guess who that was, right? Anyway, soon after introductions, she left to use the bathroom. Once she was out of site, this dude leaned in towards me and said, "You know you're a douchebag, right?"
.... Huh?
What the hell else was I supposed to say? He went on to talk about how I said something to make her feel insecure about her weight and how he had to comfort her while I was "off f***ing around." It didn't just stop there. Oh, no. This dude then mentioned how he was tired of seeing her date assholes like me and how he's been trying to make her fall in love with him for over a year.
"Is this cat serious?" was all that was running through my mind while he was ranting. Needless to say, that news stunned the hell out of me. A whole year, dude? Seriously? You've been watching this girl run around with other cats, while being her emotional pillow for an entire year? I was speechless. And the way he spoke - you could tell he was genuine about what he was saying.
A minute too late, the girlfriend came back, and this dude's face switched back to that friendly smile that was there before she left. I just couldn't do it. Maybe, because of his friend zone situation, he had mastered the art of putting up facades, but I just couldn't do it. The entire evening was awkward, and even after he left, I still couldn't get what he said out of my mind. It bothered me enough that I broke up with her shortly after. Too much baggage for my taste, and the girl didn't even know it. That single incident convinced me that the friend zone has gotta be one of the worst social positions anyone could possibly in, and frankly, if someone falls into that position, male or female, it's their own damn fault.
tl;dr Friend zone is for suckers.
Fortunately, I have never been in the friend zone, but I know a number of people who have been stuck there. For those of who don't know, the friend zone isn't sexist; in other words, it doesn't only apply to guys. There are plenty of ladies who are friends with a guy she wants to date, but for some odd reason, that guy never notices her and is busy paying attention to the scantily clad chick whose been around the block a few times. I've known these "friend zoners" even before I became interested in the dating game, and there's only one reason why I have never had the displeasure of joining their crew: my dad.
While I was growing up, one of the best words of advice he gave me was this:
"Only fools learn from their own mistakes. Wise individuals learn from the mistakes of others so as to avoid mistakes entirely."
Like I said, I've known friend zoners before I started dating, and I've seen just how miserable the lot of them are - hell, I had one friend who actually threw a tantrum one time, saying "F*** this b****! F*** the asshole she's banging! I'm done with this sh**!" It was a classic case of a poor guy being an emotional pillow for the girl he liked, seeing her go out with other dudes who end up hurting her and whatnot.
Eventually, my turn came around, and a girl I was interested in offered me the friend zone, saying, "Sorry, but I don't really like you like that. We can still be friends, though." At that instance, I remembered my pap's words: "Learn from the mistakes of others." My response: "Sorry, but I'm not interested in being your emotional garbage disposal." Nipped that in the bud right there and then, and moved on.
I've even been the supposed asshole that's dating the interest of the friend zoner. Three years ago, I was dating this one girl for about a month and half, and by that time, we were already sexually active. I met up with her at the mall one afternoon, and she introduced me to her "best friend in the world." Bet you can't guess who that was, right? Anyway, soon after introductions, she left to use the bathroom. Once she was out of site, this dude leaned in towards me and said, "You know you're a douchebag, right?"
.... Huh?
What the hell else was I supposed to say? He went on to talk about how I said something to make her feel insecure about her weight and how he had to comfort her while I was "off f***ing around." It didn't just stop there. Oh, no. This dude then mentioned how he was tired of seeing her date assholes like me and how he's been trying to make her fall in love with him for over a year.
"Is this cat serious?" was all that was running through my mind while he was ranting. Needless to say, that news stunned the hell out of me. A whole year, dude? Seriously? You've been watching this girl run around with other cats, while being her emotional pillow for an entire year? I was speechless. And the way he spoke - you could tell he was genuine about what he was saying.
A minute too late, the girlfriend came back, and this dude's face switched back to that friendly smile that was there before she left. I just couldn't do it. Maybe, because of his friend zone situation, he had mastered the art of putting up facades, but I just couldn't do it. The entire evening was awkward, and even after he left, I still couldn't get what he said out of my mind. It bothered me enough that I broke up with her shortly after. Too much baggage for my taste, and the girl didn't even know it. That single incident convinced me that the friend zone has gotta be one of the worst social positions anyone could possibly in, and frankly, if someone falls into that position, male or female, it's their own damn fault.
tl;dr Friend zone is for suckers.
I had so much to say to this, until I read that story and now I forgot it all. Now I am curious what I would have done in that position. I think I would have flipped him off, and told her what he said, not sure though the shock of that happening might stop me from doing anythingshitoutonme said:
in my experience, the friend zone is a bad position to be in, since you are stuck with the ultimatum of losing everything by asking or suppressing your feelings, usually making you feel pretty awful about the whole situation. Talking as a man of experience, it is better to retain several close female friends than to have none due to the tensions between you both.
Without having read the entire thread, I have to say I was quite amused by the female comments. Many I read go: "The friends zone is a fiction, what really happens is..." and they proceed to describe the friends zone to a T
Nobody wins when friends start to want to be more than friends. Either you don't take the risk and you get hurt or you do take the risk and probably break up and get hurt. Most of the time a girl will say 'lets stay friends' because either she values your friendship too much to risk it and then not being anything to each other or she just isn't interested in you that way. I had a friend once say he liked me more than a friend and I said lets stay friends because of both of these reasons. I ended up going out with him for only about two weeks and guess what it got very awkward and we didn't talk for over a year. It's still a little weird even now and we won't ever be as close as we were (though there are other factors involved I'll admit). The best thing you can do if you're stuck in the friend zone is try to move on. If you're meant to be with that person then something will happen and you will be together. My boyfriend told me that guys tend to like multiple girls at once (not a fact just his observation) so maybe that's why guys end up in the friend zone more than girls.
Ah, what a beautifully crafted and cunningly snide repartee.Uriel-238 said:
Or the most banal response at hand. Whichever.
But no, in my infinite egocentricity I imagine myself to be slightly to the right of 100 IQ points in the distribution.
Hence, you know, my statement about a need for an adjustment to the ratings system. You identified an issue, I agreed that it is a weakness but could be adjusted for (insofar as Ladder Theory is anything more than a humourous construct), and your rebuttal was to restate the original problem. Yeah... let's move on.
Hence the use of the word "novelty" as well as power. Please, if you insist on reconstructing my statements to suit your counter-arguments, then I'll happily declare you the winner (or whatever floats your boat) so we can move on and stop wasting time.
Now you're getting the idea. However, as I noted above, however, this isn't even a necessity, because we already have the qualification of "novelty" available to use.
Not at all. I was referring to your excessive use of italics, and the unusual use of bold, a practice that is usually confined to comic dialogue for a reason.
This may be my favorite post on this issue. Good job sir.shitoutonme said:
I've never been friend-zoned. I have a couple female friends but I've never started a full relationship with them and you know what nothing terribly wrong has become of it.
Just being friends with someone you have a crush on never works.
A favorite truth of Goths and poets alike[footnote]Unfortunately implying Goths may not be poets. Nothing is further from truth.[/footnote], love inevitably involves pain, as does all attachment. As most pet owners tend to learn early in life, sooner or later someone dies, and we have to decide that it was worth it knowing our life-mates while they lived. With our extended human lifespans, though, it is more likely that two lovers will change, and the relationship changes also, and evolves until it is something different from what it was.Astoria said:
Myself, I was raised[footnote]By raised, I mean indoctrinated into human society in my mid-twenties -- I was a solitary and messed-up kid.[/footnote] to believe relationships did not necessarily revolve around a sexual pivot. Meaning, a relationship could start as friendly and become romantic, or start romantic, and turn just-friendly, and it was a matter of those involved agreeing to reframe the relationship, rather than disband it entirely. And yes, of course there are feelings involved, but those feelings do not necessarily require a break-up to be absolute, or embittered.
If you're willing to risk the pain of loss, it doesn't take much of a step to accept the pain of rejection. And once you realize romantic rejection is nothing personal[footnote]A rejection does not mean there's something intrinsicly wrong with you, but that you're not quite what she wants. And in what remains a largely serial-monogamy centric society (here in the US, at least), we are motivated to choose our lovers carefully. Incidentally, there may actually be something intinsically wrong with you, say if you're generally a jerk or unkempt or a carrier of typhoid--check with your friends if you suspect that particular unpleasant feature makes you undatable. Usually it doesn't. (And you are.)[/footnote], it becomes possible to for two people to consider romance without the relationship itself having to change. Heck, it can be easy (and it should be easy) for a couple to go through a romance and emerge on the other side equitably civil, and at least able to continue to participate in all their other, less-mushy activities.[footnote]This is a useful skill if you date within geek culture, and want to be able to still play games with your exes.[/footnote]
238U.
You are 100% right.artanis_neravar said:
I can't speak for all girls, but I certainly speak for myself when I say there is no such thing as a "friend zone". Females and males aren't all that different, and, just like males, we can be very close friends with someone and still want to date them. We don't have "two different ladders" or any of that other bullshit.
I actually know a few girls that won't date a boy unless they have known him for a while and have become good friends with them.
So in short, there is no such thing.