'Feminazi' is sadly one of the most common examples of Godwin in our society.

[Paradoxrifts]

All the important battles in Feminism have already been fought and won,

Wat =|

No, that's not true in the least. Society is still rife with sexism. Gender roles being a huge example that a fair amount of people seem to adore, and others don't notice or call out the rather blatant sexism in it.

Straight to the evils of gender roles, eh?

I'll let you in on a little secret. They're not complaining because for an overwhelming majority of people their gender is a fundamental part of their identity and they wouldn't change it even if they had the opportunity to do so. You see the complaints of Feminism were never about 'Pink is for girls, blue is for boys.', but rather that if you were born with a vagina then you got sweet fuck all and if you were born with a penis the world was comparatively laid at your feet. Once the 'package deals' were worked out to be more equitable, most people lost interest.

The Feminists of yesteryear had to fight tooth and nail for all the equal rights that women enjoy today, but what does modern Feminism fight for?

Society has non-enforceable expectations of how I should behave! The great and horrible injustice! Onward suffrage!

 

[Phasmal]

Good lord. I knew TJ had said some pretty misogynistic crap.

But what in the ever living.. that was just plain sick.

Sad thing is, there will still be someone who will defend that sort of mouth-bollocks.

All the important battles in Feminism have already been fought and won,

Wat =|

No, that's not true in the least. Society is still rife with sexism. Gender roles being a huge example that a fair amount of people seem to adore, and others don't notice or call out the rather blatant sexism in it.

Straight to the evils of gender roles, eh?

Sorry, you are aware that in some countries women can't even fucking DRIVE?
This sort of thing is what male privilege is all about.
Yeah, I guess since I'm allowed to vote, I should just shut up, accept lower pay, and the sort of sexism that is rife in communities such as Oh-I-dont-know.. the gaming one?

 

[Darkmantle]

I believe woman when they tell me they were abused, it happens, I know it happens. But it also happens to men, and many feminists will not accept that. For example, how may womans shelters are there? how many Men's shelters?

Its hard enough to convince goverments to keep the womens shelters open, and they generally have a dismissive view of domestic violence in general, as does society.
I should also point out that women are more in danger of being murdered by their partners than men are, especially when they are trying to leave, thats why we have shelters.

This is where a lot of cognitive dissonance happens when I express my views I find. I'm not pleased that woman's shelters are being closed down. I think more should be opened, but I also think that battered men deserve to have their issues addressed too.

I would like to see a movement to have more shelters opened in general, but I have trouble supporting many of the current ones (like the mavaw one I mentioned earlier) because they tend to heavily demonize men, and I don't agree with that.

EDIT: oh and fun fact, apparently men are more likely to be seriously injured by domestic violence, as woman tend to use objects to make up for their comparitve lack of strength. Things like guns and pots and knives etc.

so it seems like it goes woman are more likely to be killed or mildly injured, while men are more likely to be seriously injured.


I wish I could find the studies I read that presented that.

 

[Rule Britannia]

I don't care for the comments on the video but T.J. makes a very valid point about feminism.

Isn't that the guy who recently told a rape victim to drown in semen?
Yeah, lets ask him about feminism.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/axp/2012/02/08/horrible-people-dont-realize-theyre-horrible/
Yep thats him.

I don't care for the comments on the video but T.J. makes a very valid point about feminism.

Isn't that the guy who recently told a rape victim to drown in semen?
Yeah, lets ask him about feminism.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/axp/2012/02/08/horrible-people-dont-realize-theyre-horrible/
Yep thats him.

The reasons for me to despise that man keep piling up.

I don't care for the comments on the video but T.J. makes a very valid point about feminism.

Oh and I'm sure people who care nazis to feminists don't actually mean it, they're mean it in a sarcastic way (sorta) they realise feminists don't kill jews and shoot people.

Am I the only one that thinks that the guy in this video is talking total B.S. and is just being an indendiary troll? I've tried crawling back through his sources but they're just totally made up statistics passed about from one guy to the next until it just becomes some sort of douchebag mantra to keep them in their happy place.

Just to clear the air, I agree with the points T.J. made towards the end of the video both side and not just focus on the women"

 

[Darkmantle]

That's because you are missing the point. It's a mere figure of speech used to compare the extremism.

No, it's really not. It's a slur. That's like saying someone's not being offensive by saying "******" because "there's black people and then there's niggers."

'******' is insulting because it brings to bear the history of oppression of black people and has the implication that somebody is inferior simply by being black. There is no sliding scale of blackness. There is a sliding scale of extremism. The word feminazi is not an insult referring to ALL feminists, only those at the far end of that sliding scale. So your analogy makes no sense.

If their was some kind of militant group of black people to which '******' referred, rather than all black people, then the analogy would make sense - except that it would undermine itself, because if their were an extreme militant group of black people and the word ****** solely applied to them, it would presumerably have different connotations; it would no long being an insult based on prejudice and instead become an insult based on a moral or political difference.

And insults based on moral or political differences can be justified. Which is why it's ok to call someone out on being racist or otherwise having an extreme or dangerous view. And why it's also ok to call someone out for having an (unjustified) hatred of men.

You know how the Escapist is so known for calling people out for comparing anything to Nazis, even if it's an appropriate comparison?

This is the one time I've never seen it applied. And this is one of the most appropriate times to tell someone they're a nazi or compare them to nazis. Even if you disagree with some of the more extreme feminists, it's utterly ridiculous to compare them to nazis.

Feminists aren't anything like nazis. It's an ideology opposed to every aspect of nazism on almost every level. The ideology is about social equality. From the side of the oppressed instead of the oppressor. It is opposed to Social Darwinism, inequality, it is non-racial, it is pro-homosexual. And the typical feminist is a hardcore LGBT advocate, anti-racist, anti-nationalist, anti-heterosexist, anti-ableist, and the ideology even harbors many hardcore animal rights activists. Not to say this is an example of all feminists, the annoying thing people label feminists being, is all the same, when there are incredibly varied versions of the ideology. But if anything would be typical of feminists, it's anything but what most people blame them of. The hardcore belief in social justice hardly makes anyone a nazi.

What is a feminist, one may ask. Many have said, "feminism is nothing more than believing men and women are equal", of course, that's true. But that's a bit overly simple and allows people to ignore problems of privilege. It's easy to say you believe in equality even if you do not, because there are all sorts of levels of equality. Feminism is better described as an ideology that is based upon reverse engineering male supremacy in society, out of society. Done from the name of the minority and the oppressed, much like how workerism is proletariat and worker centric. And means that feminism means knowing and understanding the causes and foundations of male supremacist and sexist thought in society, and how to combat and deconstruct it. A feminist isn't someone who opposes sexism in thought, but in action.

People who are sexist towards men, do not make the majority of this ideology. Recognizing that male supremacist thought exists in society and is a problem, is not the same as harboring ill toward men.

What about the feminsits who think they are SUPERIOR to men?

You know the type. I would say it's appropriate to call those type(s) a Feminazi, seeing as believing they were superior to others was a big aspect of Nazis.

Sorry to butt in but I happen to not know the type. Maybe you have some example I would like to hear about. I'd appreciate if you expanded on your personal experience.

This is the wiki page of a feminist organization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feminists

please read up on their "views"

I encourage you to read the whole thing, but I'll cherry pick a few choice quotes.

"According to Germaine Greer, it promoted not having leaders in society,[1] "characterized men as the enemy,"[1] considered "Love" to be "'the response of the victim to the rapist'"

" To liberate themselves from such oppressive roles, The Feminists held that the feminist movement must be entirely autonomous from men and eventually came to hold that women should be free of men in their personal lives as well"

" The separatist ideas of The Feminists were reflected in their membership quota, restricting women who lived with men to one-third of its members, and excluding married women entirely in 1971"

"The Feminists moved in the direction of advocating matriarchy and developing a "woman's religion"

That's the feminism I despise. That's the feminism that hates men.

And no I'm not the guy you were responding to.

I've read quite a lot and I tell ou it took me some work because it seems hardly any evidence survives of The Feminists existence. Mind you, I managed to find a few news paper articles and such which did expand upon their ideas and their goals and frankly, it seems you missed the point of my question. I wanted to know a) an example of a woman who thought of herself SUPERIOR to men and b) somebody from personal experience i.e. not a movement that ended 40 years ago. Obviously, neither you or I were even in this world at that time and I think it is important to actually address the issue at this moment, not the issue in the past. More for the benefit of men than the benefit of women to be honest. But beyond that, The Feminists didn't think they were superior to men so whatever else they thought doesn't matter in terms of the question at hand. And just to make you feel more at ease, from what I read, I didn't think The Feminists actually did feel anything like hate towards men. They just saw the institution that men had created as an insurmountable barrier in their search for identity and liberation. That isn't hate. That's called skepticism and it's sort of a perfectly natural response in humans. I don't think anybody can blame them for that.

SO you want anecdotal evidence? okay, a female college professor who taught at the NBCC in my home town. she taught some bullshit social studies course (thankfully I never enrolled in it, my friends did though) and she thought men were scum. she heavily slanted the stats and sometimes presented outright lies in her class, anything to demonize men. I met her only twice, and thank god.

there you go, historical and anecdotal evidence.

I am a humanist, and I think all these "feminists" should be also, and leave behind the tainted trappings of their past that seem to corrupt the discussion even today.

 

[Phasmal]

I am a humanist, and I think all these "feminists" should be also, and leave behind the tainted trappings of their past that seem to corrupt the discussion even today.

Um, no.
The term feminist has worked just fine for me. The only people who have issue with it seem to be willingly misunderstanding.
You want to remove it because it has `fem` in it?
How about NO?!

How often do we hear `mankind`, `men`, `dudes`, `bros` referring to both genders.
And you cant deal with `feminist`, even when you know full well what it means?

 

[Darkmantle]

I am a humanist, and I think all these "feminists" should be also, and leave behind the tainted trappings of their past that seem to corrupt the discussion even today.

Um, no.
The term feminist has worked just fine for me. The only people who have issue with it seem to be willingly misunderstanding.
You want to remove it because it has `fem` in it?
How about NO?!

How often do we hear `mankind`, `men`, `dudes`, `bros` referring to both genders.
And you cant deal with `feminist`, even when you know full well what it means?

I would love for you to stop cherry picking my posts and not addressing the majority of my points. that would be nice.

And on this point, do you see the vengeance that permeates your post? You are only going to call yourself a feminist, a gender exclusive term, because OTHER people use gender exclusive terms against you? An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind after all.

You are sinking to the level of what you despise. Feminism has stared too long into the proverbial abyss if they feel the best way to combat sexism, is to BE sexist. How can you fight for equality if your own title is unequal? Oh no, I know what feminism means, You however do not. Words mean something, and as long as feminism as a movement is taking this hostile posturing towards men in general (making the same type of broad assumption they rail against no less) They will never earn my support. What I have seen of feminism is not pretty, deep down, it gets harsh.

And it's even coming forth from you, a self proclaimed "reasonable feminist"

EDIT: the other great movement of the last century wasn't called "black rights" it was called "civil rights", that was for a reason.

 

[Phasmal]

I would love for you to stop cherry picking my posts and not addressing the majority of my points. that would be nice.

And on this point, do you see the vengeance that permeates your post? You are only going to call yourself a feminist, a gender exclusive term, because OTHER people use gender exclusive terms against you? An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind after all.

You are sinking to the level of what you despise. Feminism has stared too long into the proverbial abyss if they feel the best way to combat sexism, is to BE sexist. How can you fight for equality if your own title is unequal? Oh no, I know what feminism means, You however do not. Words mean something, and as long as feminism as a movement is taking this hostile posturing towards men in general (making the same type of broad assumption they rail against no less) They will never earn my support. What I have seen of feminism is not pretty, deep down, it gets harsh.

And it's even coming forth from you, a self proclaimed "reasonable feminist"

Ugh.
Right.
I think you are taking me too seriously.
I honestly am not `vengeful` towards men, and they can use those terms all they like (they're not used AGAINST me), I just find it a bit silly how many men dont like feminism just cause it has `fem` in the front of it. There are many men who feel perfectly fine calling themselves feminists.

I'm sure you'd like to tell me what I don't know, and I can assure you I dont fight sexism with sexism (because I'm not stupid). I know the meaning of my own feminism, and of my friends and family who are feminist too. I really dont think feminism is the Evil Alliance you seem to think it is.

I'm not sure what you find unreasonable about me, just my use of the word feminist?

EDIT: As for my `cherry picking`, the rest of what you said didn't relate to the actual term used to describe feminism/humanism, so I snipped it because it wasnt relevant.

 

[Agow95]

I don't really bother with feminists, I just wait for them to say something along the lines of "where would men be without women?" to which I jokingly reply, "In the garden of Eden eating strawberries"

 

[Darkmantle]

I would love for you to stop cherry picking my posts and not addressing the majority of my points. that would be nice.

And on this point, do you see the vengeance that permeates your post? You are only going to call yourself a feminist, a gender exclusive term, because OTHER people use gender exclusive terms against you? An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind after all.

You are sinking to the level of what you despise. Feminism has stared too long into the proverbial abyss if they feel the best way to combat sexism, is to BE sexist. How can you fight for equality if your own title is unequal? Oh no, I know what feminism means, You however do not. Words mean something, and as long as feminism as a movement is taking this hostile posturing towards men in general (making the same type of broad assumption they rail against no less) They will never earn my support. What I have seen of feminism is not pretty, deep down, it gets harsh.

And it's even coming forth from you, a self proclaimed "reasonable feminist"

Ugh.
Right.
I think you are taking me too seriously.
I honestly am not `vengeful` towards men, and they can use those terms all they like (they're not used AGAINST me), I just find it a bit silly how many men dont like feminism just cause it has `fem` in the front of it. There are many men who feel perfectly fine calling themselves feminists.

I'm sure you'd like to tell me what I don't know, and I can assure you I dont fight sexism with sexism (because I'm not stupid). I know the meaning of my own feminism, and of my friends and family who are feminist too. I really dont think feminism is the Evil Alliance you seem to think it is.

I'm not sure what you find unreasonable about me, just my use of the word feminist?

EDIT: As for my `cherry picking`, the rest of what you said didn't relate to the actual term used to describe feminism/humanism, so I snipped it because it wasnt relevant.

So is it okay if I call myself a masculinist?

And can I assume then that you agree with all my other points if you are not going to address them?

Also, don't straw man me, we are both smarter than that.

Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGDTDawB4wE

I can guarantee you this man will not be on any feminist websites or articles. Feminism has not proved to me it is TRULY about equal rights. Show me the feminist websites that showcase male victims abuse. I have not found them. Show me and I will change my mind.

EDIT: another good video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlWQrxVFJ7M

 

[Captain Booyah]

I got the impression it was more to do with the "extremism" of the term, rather than any direct comparison ideologically. I'm pretty sure the real Nazis weren't too concerned with one or two misplaced apostrophes, either.

Actually I think there was a whole concentration camp for german children who refused to learn to use proper grammar, you just rarely hear about it.

Sorry, horrible joke, I apologize!

No, no, that's just historical fact. I mean, say what you want about the Nazis, but damn -- dat punctuation.

 

[Shadie777]

I am a humanist, and I think all these "feminists" should be also, and leave behind the tainted trappings of their past that seem to corrupt the discussion even today.

Um, no.
The term feminist has worked just fine for me. The only people who have issue with it seem to be willingly misunderstanding.
You want to remove it because it has `fem` in it?
How about NO?!

How often do we hear `mankind`, `men`, `dudes`, `bros` referring to both genders.
And you cant deal with `feminist`, even when you know full well what it means?

Actually, I was quite interested on why we refer to ourselves as mankind so I did a bit of research.
Apparently, the word man was not originally meant to refer to the male Sex.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/08/the-word-man-was-originally-gender-neutral/
Its an interesting article, might be worth a read for everyone ( If the sources are correct).
But yeah, I now realise it is quite hard to be gender neutral nowadays considering the changes from Old English to Modern English.

 

[drisky]

I am a humanist, and I think all these "feminists" should be also, and leave behind the tainted trappings of their past that seem to corrupt the discussion even today.

Um, no.
The term feminist has worked just fine for me. The only people who have issue with it seem to be willingly misunderstanding.
You want to remove it because it has `fem` in it?
How about NO?!

How often do we hear `mankind`, `men`, `dudes`, `bros` referring to both genders.
And you cant deal with `feminist`, even when you know full well what it means?

Actually, I was quite interested why we refer to ourselves as mankind so I did a bit of research.
Apparently, the word man was not originally meant to refer to the male Sex.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/08/the-word-man-was-originally-gender-neutral/
its an interesting article, might be worth a read for everyone ( If the sources are correct).
But yeah, I now realise it is quite hard to be gender neutral nowadays considering the changes from Old English to Modern English.

Makes sense really, the words women and female are simply extensions of their counter parts, rather then words in their own right like girl and boy. In that sense language still tends to favor males, but their isn't to much we can do about it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

[small]Hmmm, not bad on the bingo board, though it seems a few squares got repeated a few times rather than people moving on to new ones[/small]

As mentioned over and over (but I'll say it again), feminism is not about women taking over, special rights for women, or an attack on the menz or whatever, it's simply a move for equality between the genders.

It is not sexism to want equality between the genders.

It is not something old and obsolete that fulfilled its function when women got the right to vote or drive or use birth control.

It is not unimportant because other groups are also oppressed by something[footnote]Though, fucking hell, if people don't want to call themselves feminists anymore because the feminists groups they are abandoning pretend there's only one source of oppression in the world, I can't blame them at all.[/footnote]

It is not a bunch of oversensitive killjoys come to take away people's toys because they're no fun.

Equality is (supposedly) one of the founding principles of our Western civilisation, I cannot see how people can justify opposing it.

OT: Meh, Radical feminists want women to have a separate society,

Not exactly, radical feminism (as opposed to feminists who just happen to be radical, at least) believe that society needs to be severely restructured to remove sexism...they are the "replace" rather than the "repair" group.

You have seperatists who are radfems, but they usually don't want to split society down the middle, they are the ones who want to go and form all-female hippy commune type places and get away from it all.

 

[Shadie777]

Makes sense really, the words women and female are simply extensions of their counter parts, rather then words in their own right like girl and boy. In that sense language still tends to favor males, but their isn't to much we can do about it.

We won't have to do much anyway. Our language will always evolve.
With time, it might evolve into a language that is much more gender neutral (I hope). But for now, we will just have to deal with it.

 

[razer17]

Feminists aren't anything like nazis. It's an ideology opposed to every aspect of nazism on almost every level. The ideology is about social equality. From the side of the oppressed instead of the oppressor. It is opposed to Social Darwinism, inequality, it is non-racial, it is pro-homosexual. And the typical feminist is a hardcore LGBT advocate, anti-racist, anti-nationalist, anti-heterosexist, anti-ableist, and the ideology even harbors many hardcore animal rights activists. Not to say this is an example of all feminists, the annoying thing people label feminists being, is all the same, when there are incredibly varied versions of the ideology. But if anything would be typical of feminists, it's anything but what most people blame them of. The hardcore belief in social justice hardly makes anyone a nazi.

Firstly their is a difference between feminists and extremist feminists. Extreme feminists don't believe in equality, they believe they are better than men. I also think your taking the whole term a bit too seriously. It's an exageration, a catchphrase to represent their "extremeness". I don't think when someone says feminazi they think feminists want to round up men and gas them.

Secondly, your list of other things that "feminists" support is just silly. Just because they believe in gender equality doesn't mean they suddenly accept all races, sexualities etc. They are just as likely to be biased as the rest of us.

 

[drisky]

Firstly their is a difference between feminists and extremist feminists. Extreme feminists don't believe in equality, they believe they are better than men. I also think your taking the whole term a bit too seriously. It's an exageration, a catchphrase to represent their "extremeness". I don't think when someone says feminazi they think feminists want to round up men and gas them.

Lets go to the man who popularized the word, Rush Limbaugh

"I prefer to call the most obnoxious feminists what they really are: feminazis. The term describes any female who is intolerant of any point of view that challenges militant feminism. I often use it to describe women who are obsessed with perpetuating a modern-day holocaust: abortion.

A feminazi is a woman to whom the most important thing in life is seeing to it that as many abortions as possible are performed. Their unspoken reasoning is quite simple. Abortion is the single greatest avenue for militant women to exercise their quest for power and advance their belief that men aren?t necessary. Nothing matter but me, says the feminazi; the is an unviable tissue mass. Feminazis have adopted abortion as a kind of sacrament for their religion/politics of alienation and bitterness."

So their it is in context, that is how it first got popular. They are feminazi's because women can have abortions and men can't, talk about a double standard.

Feminazi is a stupid term, and you sound unreasonable when you use it. There are plenty that use it that think anyone who is pro-choice just wants to wrack up the abortion high score.