'Feminazi' is sadly one of the most common examples of Godwin in our society.

[dobahci]

snip

At the risk of pointing out something super obvious, you could've avoided that by simply not getting into protracted arguments with people you know to be irrational bigots.

 

[TotalerKrieger]

I don't care for the comments on the video but T.J. makes a very valid point about feminism.

Oh and I'm sure people who care nazis to feminists don't actually mean it, they're mean it in a sarcastic way (sorta) they realise feminists don't kill jews and shoot people.

This guy just comes off as another angry butthurt loser with a chip on his shoulder. All of his "complaints" fall completely flat:

-Domestic violence against men is percieved with less reaction because there is less of a precedent for it. There is a long history of women who have been beaten or killed by husbands, it envokes a greater response. Additionally, bigoted machismo culture belittles men who have let a woman dominate them physically. I suppose it is possible that this culture may bias legal proceedings to some extent, but I really doubt justice is ever denied. Blame patriarchal cave-man culture when the cops snicker at your shiner, not feminism.

-Female circumcision is WAY more damgaging than male circumcision. Both forms of mutilation are enforced under male-dominated religions. Blame patriarchal religious culture for mutilated genitals, not feminism.

-The military elite have actively fought women from entering the armed forces for decades. It stems from old conservative thinking that women are not emotionally fit for combat, I disagree (see: Lyudmila Pavlichenko, WW2 Soviet sniper who bagged 309 Nazis). Physical ability should be judged on an individual basis, not by gender. If the draft was enforced, I would probably meet the criteria for service, however, there are a lot of women out there who are in far better physical shape than I could ever become. The military and police forces are probably the most sexist organisations within our society, a great big "good ole' boy's club" at heart. Can you think of a female officer who has achieved a top position within the general staff? Any nationality? I find it hard to believe that no female candidates have ever met the criteria for promotion. Blame patriarchal military culture when you are drafted as an able-bodied man, not feminism.

The whole video is one big irrational rant about how tough dudes have it in modern society. What he fails to realise is that the patriarchal culture which oppresses women also oppress men. Feminism's goal is to eliminate this patriarchal culture...everybody wins.
His apologist speil about how men deserved all the power in past societies because they did all the work...lol, fuck man...no words.

 

[Phasmal]

"A hardcore belief in social equality" is not feminism. If so, it is inappropriate to call it feminism. Feminism is the belief that "feminine ideals" should be incorporated into society, and on a more extreme level, that the female sex is superior to the male.

What you just said is not true. I have never heard any woman, feminist or otherwise, say anything remotely nearing the claim you just made.

I am going to assume you are gravely misinformed and ask that you get properly informed, not by me, but I'll give you somewhere to start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Dont let logic get in the way of the shit-slinging.

This shit is tiring, isn't it?
`I know in some countries women cant drive and can be legally raped by their husbands but FEMINISTS ARE TAKING OVER!!!!!!!!`

Snip.

I suggest looking up my url about this dude and then paying him no more attention.

Also, looking at these replies, you still convinced this conversation is going to change anything?

I'm beginning to wonder.

 

[Darkmantle]

SNIP

I'm a humanist. I look to support all humans, not just females, as the name "feminist" implies* . I truly began to not like feminism when the M.A.V.A.W. (Men against Violence against Woman) showed up at my school. I realized they were using fake domestic violence statistics to try to make men look bad, furthermore the whole name of the organization implied (and their presentation confirmed my suspicions) that they think only men abuse, and only woman are abused.

I cannot state this enough, this is a lie. The rates now a days are actually closer to 50/50. And it sickens me every time I go on a feminist website, and they have that BS statistic that it's 90% men. Domestic violence isn't about gender, it's about power and control.

So I ask you this. If feminists are all about equality, why do they lie about domestic violence?

It just always seems to me that they like playing the victim card.

 

[Darkmantle]

That's because you are missing the point. It's a mere figure of speech used to compare the extremism.

No, it's really not. It's a slur. That's like saying someone's not being offensive by saying "******" because "there's black people and then there's niggers."

'******' is insulting because it brings to bear the history of oppression of black people and has the implication that somebody is inferior simply by being black. There is no sliding scale of blackness. There is a sliding scale of extremism. The word feminazi is not an insult referring to ALL feminists, only those at the far end of that sliding scale. So your analogy makes no sense.

If their was some kind of militant group of black people to which '******' referred, rather than all black people, then the analogy would make sense - except that it would undermine itself, because if their were an extreme militant group of black people and the word ****** solely applied to them, it would presumerably have different connotations; it would no long being an insult based on prejudice and instead become an insult based on a moral or political difference.

And insults based on moral or political differences can be justified. Which is why it's ok to call someone out on being racist or otherwise having an extreme or dangerous view. And why it's also ok to call someone out for having an (unjustified) hatred of men.

You know how the Escapist is so known for calling people out for comparing anything to Nazis, even if it's an appropriate comparison?

This is the one time I've never seen it applied. And this is one of the most appropriate times to tell someone they're a nazi or compare them to nazis. Even if you disagree with some of the more extreme feminists, it's utterly ridiculous to compare them to nazis.

Feminists aren't anything like nazis. It's an ideology opposed to every aspect of nazism on almost every level. The ideology is about social equality. From the side of the oppressed instead of the oppressor. It is opposed to Social Darwinism, inequality, it is non-racial, it is pro-homosexual. And the typical feminist is a hardcore LGBT advocate, anti-racist, anti-nationalist, anti-heterosexist, anti-ableist, and the ideology even harbors many hardcore animal rights activists. Not to say this is an example of all feminists, the annoying thing people label feminists being, is all the same, when there are incredibly varied versions of the ideology. But if anything would be typical of feminists, it's anything but what most people blame them of. The hardcore belief in social justice hardly makes anyone a nazi.

What is a feminist, one may ask. Many have said, "feminism is nothing more than believing men and women are equal", of course, that's true. But that's a bit overly simple and allows people to ignore problems of privilege. It's easy to say you believe in equality even if you do not, because there are all sorts of levels of equality. Feminism is better described as an ideology that is based upon reverse engineering male supremacy in society, out of society. Done from the name of the minority and the oppressed, much like how workerism is proletariat and worker centric. And means that feminism means knowing and understanding the causes and foundations of male supremacist and sexist thought in society, and how to combat and deconstruct it. A feminist isn't someone who opposes sexism in thought, but in action.

People who are sexist towards men, do not make the majority of this ideology. Recognizing that male supremacist thought exists in society and is a problem, is not the same as harboring ill toward men.

What about the feminsits who think they are SUPERIOR to men?

You know the type. I would say it's appropriate to call those type(s) a Feminazi, seeing as believing they were superior to others was a big aspect of Nazis.

Sorry to butt in but I happen to not know the type. Maybe you have some example I would like to hear about. I'd appreciate if you expanded on your personal experience.

This is the wiki page of a feminist organization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feminists

please read up on their "views"

I encourage you to read the whole thing, but I'll cherry pick a few choice quotes.

"According to Germaine Greer, it promoted not having leaders in society,[1] "characterized men as the enemy,"[1] considered "Love" to be "'the response of the victim to the rapist'"

" To liberate themselves from such oppressive roles, The Feminists held that the feminist movement must be entirely autonomous from men and eventually came to hold that women should be free of men in their personal lives as well"

" The separatist ideas of The Feminists were reflected in their membership quota, restricting women who lived with men to one-third of its members, and excluding married women entirely in 1971"

"The Feminists moved in the direction of advocating matriarchy and developing a "woman's religion"

That's the feminism I despise. That's the feminism that hates men.

And no I'm not the guy you were responding to.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

As far as I can the see the word 'Feminism' has been completely hijacked these days(typically by the media), and is generally attributed to those nutjob extremists that think all men are evil potential rapists who should be castrated once we find a reliable method of creating children without them.

Feminazi, on these forums at least, is generally used when discussing said extremists. This whole thing I think makes it somewhat tricky for people campaigning for female equality to gain support.

I'm a humanist. I look to support all humans, not just females, as the name "feminist". I truly began to not like feminism when the M.A.V.A.W. (Men against Violence against Woman) showed up at my school. I realized they were using fake domestic violence statistics to try to make men look bad, furthermore the whole name of the organization implied (and their presentation confirmed my suspicions) that they think only men abuse, and only woman are abused.

I cannot state this enough, this is a lie. The rates now a days are actually closer to 50/50. And it sickens me every time I go on a feminist website, and they have that BS statistic that it's 90% men. Domestic violence isn't about gender, it's about power and control.

So I ask you this. If feminists are all about equality, why do they lie about domestic violence?

It just always seems to me that they like playing the victim card.

Oh god, so much this. We have posters plastered throughout our college campus about stopping 'domestic violence against women', and it makes me think, "They would get so much more support for this if they didn't specify gender."

I mean by doing so they effectively alienate men who have been abused, and possibly put off men who haven't from supporting it.

Dont let logic get in the way of the shit-slinging.

This shit is tiring, isn't it?
`I know in some countries women cant drive and can be legally raped by their husbands but FEMINISTS ARE TAKING OVER!!!!!!!!`

To claim that men face more discrimination in Western societies than women is ignorant.
To claim that they face none at all, or that what they do face is somehow less important to stop is equally so.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

**snip**

After my most recent "strike" on my Health Meter, I had a very constructive conversation with one of the mods. He said that, rather than let myself get angry, yell at idiots, and get another point on my meter while the idiots in question get off scott free, I should instead simply Report and Ignore - that is click the Report button, and then click the Ignore option.

I've been doing that in this thread. A lot.

I just wanted to say - if you weren't already on my friend list, Phasmal, I would add you. Everything you've said in this thread has been spot on.

Why should we have the discussion here? Are any of YOU in a position to hire more women into the games industry? If so - then you should. As the Escapist numbers prove, gaming is a Boys Club - and feminism exists to allow women to get involved in activities that men try to keep us out of.

I also had some very aserbic and sarcastic comments - comments I really REALLY wanted to post in this thread. But I am not going to. I am not going to flame, troll, or anything else. I am going to calmly tell you, Phasmal, how awesome and insightful - and restrained - you are. Because you are awesome.

You too Zachary Amaranth - and again, if you weren't already on my friends list, you would be after this thread. Thank you for saying everything you've said.

I shall now continue to resist the burning desire to respond to some of the comments in this thread. Mostly because it really wouldn't help the very calm and rational points that the two of you are making.

 

[Phasmal]

So I ask you this. If feminists are all about equality, why do they lie about domestic violence?

It just always seems to me that they like playing the victim card.

I'm a feminist, I've never lied about domestic violence, but I've had people accuse me of making it up (it was in the house when I was a kid). Its notoriously difficult to get statistics on domestic violence.
And the term is feminist because lets face it to make people equal it pretty much required giving females rights that they didnt have before, cause all the dudes were in charge. (I'm not saying thats all it is NOW, this is why it was called that, and because humanism is a different movement).

Basically, I dont know why everyone focuses on this minority of the feminist movement as if that justifies the shit that gets flung at rational feminists.

Dont let logic get in the way of the shit-slinging.

This shit is tiring, isn't it?
`I know in some countries women cant drive and can be legally raped by their husbands but FEMINISTS ARE TAKING OVER!!!!!!!!`

To claim that men face more discrimination in Western societies than women is ignorant.
To claim that they face none at all, or that what they do face is somehow less important to stop is equally so.

I... didnt say either of those things.

 

[Shadie777]

Basically, I dont know why everyone focuses on this minority of the feminist movement as if that justifies the shit that gets flung at rational feminists.

The same reason why everyone focuses on the extremist minority while talking about religion.
Because that minority make the most noise

 

[Phasmal]

Basically, I dont know why everyone focuses on this minority of the feminist movement as if that justifies the shit that gets flung at rational feminists.

The same reason why everyone focuses on the extremist minority while talking about religion.
Because they make the most noise

Ok.
I'm HERE!
I'm RATIONAL!
I'm FEMINIST!
MAKING NOISE!

Did it work?
Maybe I need to make a better chant.

The serious side of this post is, its hard for a rational movement to make noise about being rational, everyone would be like `yeah so what`.
But hey, maybe a few people here who havent actually met any feminists but have just heard terrible things about them will notice.

Snip.

I should also mention that we should team up.
And fight crime.

 

[TotalerKrieger]

Snip.

I suggest looking up my url about this dude and then paying him no more attention.

Also, looking at these replies, you still convinced this conversation is going to change anything?

I'm beginning to wonder.

Yea, that guy is scum... nuff said. Unfortunately, his sort is not uncommon among gamers (in my experience anyways.) And we wonder why so few women are into gaming...

Yes, this conversation probably is a waste of time, I'm just idealistic...

Most political arguments are a waste of time, I suppose. People with a definite position usually just stick to said position no matter what anyone says. People with no position just ignore the argument all together. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Mr Cwtchy]

Dont let logic get in the way of the shit-slinging.

This shit is tiring, isn't it?
`I know in some countries women cant drive and can be legally raped by their husbands but FEMINISTS ARE TAKING OVER!!!!!!!!`

To claim that men face more discrimination in Western societies than women is ignorant.
To claim that they face none at all, or that what they do face is somehow less important to stop is equally so.

I... didnt say either of those things.

Oh I know you didn't, I was just making a general statement. Dunno why I quoted you really.

P.S. Could I please have a captcha that I can actually READ!?

 

[Darkmantle]

So I ask you this. If feminists are all about equality, why do they lie about domestic violence?

It just always seems to me that they like playing the victim card.

I'm a feminist, I've never lied about domestic violence, but I've had people accuse me of making it up (it was in the house when I was a kid). Its notoriously difficult to get statistics on domestic violence.
And the term is feminist because lets face it to make people equal it pretty much required giving females rights that they didnt have before, cause all the dudes were in charge. (I'm not saying thats all it is NOW, this is why it was called that, and because humanism is a different movement).

Basically, I dont know why everyone focuses on this minority of the feminist movement as if that justifies the shit that gets flung at rational feminists.

You haven't, and that's very anecdotal, but that's not what I'm talking about.

It's the false statistics they use. Here from stats Canada.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2005/07/14/domestic-violence-050714.html

""In terms of numbers, an estimated 653,000 women and 546,000 men "encountered some form of violence," Statistics Canada said."


I believe woman when they tell me they were abused, it happens, I know it happens. But it also happens to men, and many feminists will not accept that. For example, how may womans shelters are there? how many Men's shelters?