Feminism: has it gone to far?

[mr_rubino]

Would I get mod-powned if I made a joke concerning a... recurring but semi-standardized point in time at which a certain gender is stereotypically believed to go into a heightened emotional state that has been comically-represented as something akin to demented insanity?
And the intriguing irony of the situation as it stands here?

Also, derelix, I hope you're happy. Whatshisname just wanted people's views on his question, and now this thread's probably gonna vanish because of you.

 

[Serenegoose]

Yeah completely ignore the fact that charecters like Kratos and Dante and Leon are just supermodel figures for females.
It only counts as something bad when it happens to your fragile little ego, right?

Male stereotypes in games: HUGE, heroic, manly, save the day types.

Female stereotypes in games: TITS WITH LEGS, or damsels to be saved. (usually both)

Thankfully there are ever more exceptions to this rule, but there's your stereotypes.

 

[mr_rubino]

okay since men outnumber women in the video game industry that means men are forcing them out? bull fucking shit. just because women are scant in a profession doesn't mean sexism. do men become basket weavers? in that industry? no. does that mean men are not welcome? hell no that means its a road less traveled. i also used the men control everything thing since you seem to believe men can get rich quick. it isn't that easy and there IS a bigger picture than male/females.

Of course there is. You're arguing a strawman. I have said that it is more possible for a man to become rich than a woman. This is true. I did not say all men are rich. You made that up.

Actually, when we look at it, we tend to find sexism in exactly the situations you depicted. Are women being forced out of the game industry? No, they are not having big burly people bodily evict them from the premises. Is there an overall culture of 'no women allowed' that pervades the industry and dissuades women from even getting into games in the first place?

I dunno, let's go ask Lara Croft. Lara! Would you say that gaming has typically presented itself as a boys club, the kind of which women aren't welcome in?

Oh. I'm sorry Lara. It's tough to hear you over the sound of your GIGANTIC BREASTS.

But no, obviously, the fact that male nurses or hairdressers never ever get a funny look/have their sexuality questioned for taking 'feminine' jobs means there's definitely no sexism going on here at all.

Yeah completely ignore the fact that charecters like Kratos and Dante and Leon are just supermodel figures for females.
It only counts as something bad when it happens to your fragile little ego, right?

And please, shut the fuck up if you refuse to think. You really believe men are not insulted if they become a nurse or something considered a "female" job? If so you know nothing about being a guy BECAUSE YOUR A FUCKING WOMAN and you shouldn't assume everyone else has it way better than you. Maybe some guys are doing better than you because they didn't ***** all day, they did actual work to get their lives the way they wanted. CRAZY RIGHT?

Boo! Get off the stage! The other guy was better!

Wow are you really so thick headed?
I'm twisting her words, the same way everyone loved to twist mine. Isn't it fun when people do it to you? Why not? Fuck You. Cant handle it, Don't FucKING do it yourself.

Now I will admit that I'm a newcomer to this thread, so I don't really understand the history, but I do have a simple question, that I really think you should take into consideration, as I spent some time thinking about it, and I think you should to. I think today's debate really boils down to just one simple inquiry:

"You mad, bro?"

Mad isn't the right word. I get mad when I stub my toe, when I bite into something that's too hot, or when a dog pisses on me. When I once again snap and lose all faith in humanity (something it took many years to restore, had to forget everything bad and learn every good delusion) and open the gates that hold all of those fucked up memories, it makes me crazy. I'm letting the demon lose, he knows how to handle these things better than I do.

Erm... Alright, I was wrong on that one.

 

[Ericb]

What it comes down to is not what it means to be female, but what it means to be male. "Man" needs to be redefined for this whole thing to work. The masculine needs to include taking up housework and childrearing, all those typically feminine, and unpaid might I add, jobs. I think we also need to stop devaluing the role that home parenting and housework have, whoever does them.

Damn right. It takes stamina and focus to do housework!

Sadly, I witnessed a woman despise the idea of a man taking care of the house and family. She open heartedly declared herself "machist" in that respect, which made me like her a lot less.

Overall, the one aspect lacking in most if not all of feminist philosophy throughout the decades is the inclusion of the male population in the progress this movement professes.

For example, there's still a vast undercurrent of immaturity shaping the male culture that's rarely addressed in dignified manner. A lot of of that, mixed with a unhealthy amount of unhandled insecurities, ignite many attitudes that almost make ashamed to be a dude.

Almost, because a moment later it hits me that I don't take part in that bs.

Anyway, about the question in the topics's title...

Saying "feminism has gone too far" because of a few whackhead nutjobs is like saying "Religion has gone too far" because of a few suicide bombers.

 

[AgentNein]

I love it when a bunch of middle class or better white males decide that everything's equal.

I don't have much else to say here. This thread is horrendously disheartening.

The problem with privilege is if you have it, it's hard to see it, and when people point it out to others, it tends to make them defensive.

Really defensive.

right, like when woman are favored by our laws they like to ignore it.
God this thread has opened my eyes. Nobody deserves life. Humans are selfish useless little insects and people like you have shown me this, thank you.
Dumb, spoiled little B***** like you showed me the way. Men are all rich assholes that abuse women and women are all spoiled whores that use men. Happy? It's equal now.

... wait i am rich now? and i have a girlfriend that i somehow abuse when i didn't even know i have one? when do i get them? i take it i need to wait 7 business days for delivery + shipping?

Let me help you out there. No one actually said that aside from Derelix.

Shut the fuck up kid. All you do is hurl insults and accusations and never prove any of them.
If you wanna talk shit about me, do it to me. The talking behind my back thing is fucking pathetic. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU HAVE TO SAY! What do you have to fucking say!?

When exactly have I hurled an insult at you?

And technically it's not talking shit behind your back when it's in the same forum thread that you're posting in. That's more or less right in front of you.

Obviously, you have no sense of humor.


The first thing you said to me was "that's bullshit" with nothing else to explain it. That's an insult to some people.
The ignorant things you say are too hard to ignore. Men have all the rights, that's actually something you believe. When confronted with such ignorance A PERSON TENDS TO SNAP!

I said "that's bullshit" referring to you saying that "Feminism" was an amalgam of "feminine" and "supremacist".

That's not an insult. That's just stating fact.

Secondly, I don't remember ever saying that "men have all the rights". What I DID say is that men hold privilege in our society. Stop putting words in people's mouths.

"But on to the other stuff: We have nobody fighting for "male rights" because males already have all of the rights."

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.233058-Feminism-has-it-gone-to-far?page=9
Don't even give me that shit. I deal with assholes twisting my words all day and you use that as an excuse to weasel out of something you actually said? Your fucking pathetic.

Fair enough, you got me there. I read what I wrote out of context and didn't recognize it. I do however stand by what I said within context, and it's about privilege. On a side note, you seem to be weaseling out of any intelligent conversation by initiating this hurling of insults. Do you think that this is helping your point at all?

 

[mr_rubino]

your speaking in cliches,

Pfffff-bwahahahahaha!

BTW, why is it a guys game if it's a female Protag but a guys game if its a guy protag too? Is it really so crazy to think that a female could find such male characters attractive too? TRY TO FUCKING THINK FOR A SECOND!

Oops. Ulterior motive slip.

 

[CloakedOne]

You don't really have any support for your ideas based on your initial post (I never looked any farther), but I would have to disagree. I don't think they are trying to become better than men. Feminists today are trying to make sure that we don't fall back into old habits (not to mention the fact that man male-centric practices are still taking place today). Feminists are quite necessary today and it's still about equality. The way you perceive feminists is not at all how they are. I have studied feminism quite thoroughly in the realm that it primarily exists now: an academic realm of theory and analysis. Extreme feminists are just like extreme religious zealots in that they are few and far between. We should not be so hasty as to lump all of us in the same group.

 

[mr_rubino]

Would I get mod-powned if I made a joke concerning a... recurring but semi-standardized point in time at which a certain gender is stereotypically believed to go into a heightened emotional state that has been comically-represented as something akin to demented insanity?
And the intriguing irony of the situation as it stands here?

Also, derelix, I hope you're happy. Whatshisname just wanted people's views on his question, and now this thread's probably gonna vanish because of you.

not happy, but somebody is I'm sure.
Don't feel bad for him, this was a flame war baiting thread from the beginning. I could teach him more about life than any of these delusional fucks can. It's not fair. It's not supposed to be fair, so stop trying to play fair.
Anybody who tries to play "fair" in this world is trying to win a footrace using just their hands. I admire the courage, but it's just stupid and your going to lose.

So much for all that "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" stuff, I guess. Easier to sit and complain about your inability to utilize grace-given privilege, thus... disproving its existence. Yeah thanks, but I think I'll let someone else teach me of their life experiences.

But seriously, I need to know what country Indian, black, and Asian women are the dominant species in. That can't be let slip away.

I have a feeling that last comment was a really good joke that I didn't get.

Now that I think about it, "perhaps".

 

[Mimssy]

You don't really have any support for your ideas based on your initial post (I never looked any farther), but I would have to disagree. I don't think they are trying to become better than men. Feminists today are trying to make sure that we don't fall back into old habits (not to mention the fact that man male-centric practices are still taking place today). Feminists are quite necessary today and it's still about equality. The way you perceive feminists is not at all how they are. I have studied feminism quite thoroughly in the realm that it primarily exists now: an academic realm of theory and analysis. Extreme feminists are just like extreme religious zealots in that they are few and far between. We should not be so hasty as to lump all of us in the same group.

You get a high-five for being awesome!

 

[Serenegoose]

and do you wonder WHY it is a boy's club? marketing. boys buy games with boobs while a game with a main character with the dick the size of a minivan wouldn't sell as well. money, money, and more money are on the minds of the developers. more boobs and sex? more men and teens buying your product. the reason the game industry is so unappealing to women is also due to the pay. 40k a year isn't that much and it doesn't get that much better even with experience. i seen men take shit all the time when they take care of children, or become hairdressers. ask julianking what happened to his job at the daycare and not get pissed off. saying that being rich is a road less traveled is not arguing straw man. getting rich is almost a fool's errand and only business owners become them. America is mostly workers, not business owners since big name stores decimate entire areas of their small businesses which make up 90% of the businesses in the united states. people don't get rich because of their gender, they get rich because they know how to work a market and know how to wage business warfare.

You're not even reading now. Honestly. I'll repeat it for you.

But no, obviously, the fact that male nurses or hairdressers never ever get a funny look/have their sexuality questioned for taking 'feminine' jobs means there's definitely no sexism going on here at all.

Given that I've been arguing that society is in fact sexist, do you think I'd say "There's definitely no sexism going on here" and mean it? No. There's an acute amount of sexism going on regarding the fact that it is less socially acceptable for men to work in 'womens' jobs because it casts doubt on their masculinity. This means it is NOT generally acceptable for a man to appear feminine, and why is that? Because appearing feminine is worse than appearing masculine. It is shameful to do so. That is sexism at its basest and simplest.

And yes being rich is a road less travelled. It is a road however, travelled by far more men than women. I'll make it really simple for you. This is not saying all men travel this road. That's stupid, and that's what you're telling me I'm saying, not what I'm actually saying which is your strawman.

I've pointed out that as far as the lists go, there's way more rich men than women. You're saying it's got nothing to do with gender, but rather business acumen. So... women by and large are incapable of knowing how the market works? Geee, that doesn't sound remotely sexist at all.

 

[mr_rubino]

Would I get mod-powned if I made a joke concerning a... recurring but semi-standardized point in time at which a certain gender is stereotypically believed to go into a heightened emotional state that has been comically-represented as something akin to demented insanity?
And the intriguing irony of the situation as it stands here?

Also, derelix, I hope you're happy. Whatshisname just wanted people's views on his question, and now this thread's probably gonna vanish because of you.

not happy, but somebody is I'm sure.
Don't feel bad for him, this was a flame war baiting thread from the beginning. I could teach him more about life than any of these delusional fucks can. It's not fair. It's not supposed to be fair, so stop trying to play fair.
Anybody who tries to play "fair" in this world is trying to win a footrace using just their hands. I admire the courage, but it's just stupid and your going to lose.

So much for all that "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" stuff, I guess. Easier to sit and complain about your inability to utilize grace-given privilege, thus... disproving its existence. Yeah thanks, but I think I'll let someone else teach me of their life experiences.

But seriously, I need to know what country Indian, black, and Asian women are the dominant species in. That can't be let slip away.

I never said that. This is why i had to flip out, idiots keep misquoting me.
I said a RICH (see that word, it says fucking RICH) asian, black, mexican, jew, whatever, has more power than a broke white man. A rich white man has more power than a poor asian. That's america.
Grace given privilege? I was labeled as trash from the start. I have no "privilege" and anything I get I have to get myself. Don't you talk to me like you fucking know me, you don't know anything about me.

Lot of those rich Indian chicks running around in your country. ...I was right. It's Indonesia, right?

I was labeled as trash from the start.

I was labeled as trash from the start.

I was labeled as trash from the start.

Oh my...