Feminism: has it gone to far?
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No. It has not.
A cursory glance at the world will show you that most women are not afforded the same rights.
Within the US, the laws technically are supposed to give women the same rights as men. In practice however, women are often treated very poorly by men, in business, in domestic matters and especially in the entertainment industry.
Feminism is a category of humanism. It asserts that women are PEOPLE, just like YOU, and thus, deserve to be treated like people. Many men do not do this. The prevalence of domestic violence is a sign of this - woman get beaten by their husbands far more than husbands ever get beaten by their wives.
Men do not have the right to ever tell women how to live their lives. That is up to them. Men don't like it when they are told how to live their lives, well, I think that most women feel the same way when men tell them how to live theirs.
Feminism has not gone too far - if you think it has, maybe you're just angry because you can't control women. Well, it's morally wrong to try to control women. They are people - human beings, just like you. It's very, very sad that so many men can't realize this incredibly simple fact.
A cursory glance at the world will show you that most women are not afforded the same rights.
Within the US, the laws technically are supposed to give women the same rights as men. In practice however, women are often treated very poorly by men, in business, in domestic matters and especially in the entertainment industry.
Feminism is a category of humanism. It asserts that women are PEOPLE, just like YOU, and thus, deserve to be treated like people. Many men do not do this. The prevalence of domestic violence is a sign of this - woman get beaten by their husbands far more than husbands ever get beaten by their wives.
Men do not have the right to ever tell women how to live their lives. That is up to them. Men don't like it when they are told how to live their lives, well, I think that most women feel the same way when men tell them how to live theirs.
Feminism has not gone too far - if you think it has, maybe you're just angry because you can't control women. Well, it's morally wrong to try to control women. They are people - human beings, just like you. It's very, very sad that so many men can't realize this incredibly simple fact.
Speaking from experience, the box thing doesn't ALWAYS work. Trust me, I know.-SnakeF-I-D-O said:
Apologies for double posting but, I had to poke the Dragon Lady. The flames are shiny.Korolev said:
My views EXACTLY. If a man is being sexist, then fair enough Women call him out on it, if he holds the door open for you do what i do when the same person holds the door open for me and say 'thanks mate', its basic manners to hold the door not because you're a woman.Furious Styles said:
I've met many girls (i wont name names) who have used their body's to their advantage (e.g pushing out their chest at bars to get served quicker) and then 5 seconds later going ***** crazy on a bloke for checking her out.
Also try calling a woman sexist for pushing for Female superiority, see how fast you get shot down, we can't win.
I don't mind people calling others out for sexism because it IS wrong, but women can be sexist too and the state of most feminists today IS sexism.
Apologies for the rant
Just because a specific feminist group has done things you think have gone too far doesn't mean you should title your thread Feminism: Has it gone too far
That's like saying Capitalism: has it gone too far? It means so very little.
Dear God, the generalizations in here. "You know this one woman I met this one time, God she was such an entitled *****. It's those Goddamn feminists and they're agenda for this country."
Can some one at least try to criticize actual Feminist theorists instead of bitching about random people they know.
That's like saying Capitalism: has it gone too far? It means so very little.
Dear God, the generalizations in here. "You know this one woman I met this one time, God she was such an entitled *****. It's those Goddamn feminists and they're agenda for this country."
Can some one at least try to criticize actual Feminist theorists instead of bitching about random people they know.
Feminism, of all the philosophies of the world, is probably the least well understood, by both the sexes. The presence of feminism in the world cannot be adequately expressed on a single axis, with "not enough" at one end, "too much" at the other end, and "just the right amount" in the middle. It's a complex issue, so at the very least you need many such axes, a multidimensional graph, if you insist on approaching it in that way.
Women are still discriminated against in many, many ways, and they still earn significantly less than men on average. So no, in many ways feminism has not gone far enough.
You could say that in some areas it has gone too far, but I would argue that in those areas, that is not really feminism that you are addressing, but a misunderstanding of feminism.
Women are still discriminated against in many, many ways, and they still earn significantly less than men on average. So no, in many ways feminism has not gone far enough.
You could say that in some areas it has gone too far, but I would argue that in those areas, that is not really feminism that you are addressing, but a misunderstanding of feminism.
I read an article about feminists complaining that Apprentice Hairdressers make less money than apprentice Carpenters (and other such trades). They claimed this was inequality, because more women were hairdressers than men, and that since these jobs require similar skillsets (I didn't understand either) they should be on a same payscale.
So yes, some feminists are batshit, and believe that women dominated jobs should earn equal money to male dominated jobs, simply because women are the ones doing them, not because the work they do is valued higher.
In short, feminism should be about giving women the power to choose, not powering up the payscale of typically female jobs.
So yes, some feminists are batshit, and believe that women dominated jobs should earn equal money to male dominated jobs, simply because women are the ones doing them, not because the work they do is valued higher.
In short, feminism should be about giving women the power to choose, not powering up the payscale of typically female jobs.
Let me ask you this: A man sleeps with a lot of women - often he is depicted as a fun-loving playboy. A woman sleeps with a lot of men - she will be depicted as either evil or impure. That's a double-standard right there.
There are a few women who hate men, just as there are a lot of men who hate women. Some feminists have gone off the deep end and have started to advocate misandry. However, this is rare and should not be used as an argument against feminism. It would be like using the Black Panthers as an argument against the Civil Rights Act.
There is still a LOT of violence directed against women in modern day society. Things have improved since the 1900s, but much work still remains. Women are still often treated as property by men, and are often hit by men, abused by men. This happens - read up on the statistics of domestic violence and rape and sexual harassment. It's still a huge problem.
Women are human. Treat them, like humans. That's it - that's what feminism is. It's the idea that women are people too. I'm surprised that so many grown men fail to grasp that extremely simple concept - I figured it out when I was five years old. Many men are worried that feminism will relinquish their control over women - well, tough beans - you have no right to control women. No one has the right to control anyone.
I don't want anyone telling me how to live my life - whether it be a woman or a man. I will live my life (within the confines of the law), the way I WANT TO. Women should be afforded the same right.
If you try to tell a woman what job she can have, or how to live her life, or what to wear, or who she can be friends with, or how she behaves, you're a controlling sexist bastard. You don't have the right to dictate how a woman lives her life - that is for her to decide. A woman similarly does not have the right to tell a man how to live his life. That's just as bad.
But too often, men get terribly offended when a woman treats him with disrespect, yet they have no problem when men do the same to women. That's a double standard, and feminism is about removing double standards.
Violence against women, by men, is still a problem - again, look at the statistics the UN publishes. Violence against men by women is also bad, but it's not nearly as big a problem. It's actually an incredibly rare thing. So that is why people focus on improving the rights of women, because for millennia they have been on the short end of the deal.
There are a few women who hate men, just as there are a lot of men who hate women. Some feminists have gone off the deep end and have started to advocate misandry. However, this is rare and should not be used as an argument against feminism. It would be like using the Black Panthers as an argument against the Civil Rights Act.
There is still a LOT of violence directed against women in modern day society. Things have improved since the 1900s, but much work still remains. Women are still often treated as property by men, and are often hit by men, abused by men. This happens - read up on the statistics of domestic violence and rape and sexual harassment. It's still a huge problem.
Women are human. Treat them, like humans. That's it - that's what feminism is. It's the idea that women are people too. I'm surprised that so many grown men fail to grasp that extremely simple concept - I figured it out when I was five years old. Many men are worried that feminism will relinquish their control over women - well, tough beans - you have no right to control women. No one has the right to control anyone.
I don't want anyone telling me how to live my life - whether it be a woman or a man. I will live my life (within the confines of the law), the way I WANT TO. Women should be afforded the same right.
If you try to tell a woman what job she can have, or how to live her life, or what to wear, or who she can be friends with, or how she behaves, you're a controlling sexist bastard. You don't have the right to dictate how a woman lives her life - that is for her to decide. A woman similarly does not have the right to tell a man how to live his life. That's just as bad.
But too often, men get terribly offended when a woman treats him with disrespect, yet they have no problem when men do the same to women. That's a double standard, and feminism is about removing double standards.
Violence against women, by men, is still a problem - again, look at the statistics the UN publishes. Violence against men by women is also bad, but it's not nearly as big a problem. It's actually an incredibly rare thing. So that is why people focus on improving the rights of women, because for millennia they have been on the short end of the deal.
To be brutally honest. I see feminism taking MANY step backwards compared to what they were originally shooting for. Sure, I see the whole "equal pay, equal jobs" part of it...but than I see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGL2rytTraA
and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEe_eraFWWs
To me feminists in the past were shooting to be seen more like: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.starwarped.net/files/papers/page-2/1024/princess-leia-Star-Wars-wallpaper.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.starwarped.net/Star-Wars-wallpapers-backgrounds-desktops-1.htm&usg=__Odd5OiDrxoqdFoQxHrqvs1ewVu4=&h=768&w=1024&sz=95&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=1_10cKRTq8etGM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=184&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dprincess%2Bleia%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial%26biw%3D1440%26bih%3D715%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C114&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=245&vpy=153&dur=87&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=150&ty=132&ei=ITCUTJnyAYLSsAPV6cHlCQ&oei=2S-UTNG_O4eosQPfkoDACg&esq=14&page=1&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:0&biw=1440&bih=715.
Independent, somewhat conservative, but damn sexy
BUT women today are more like:http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://concerts.caltweet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/lady%2Bgaga.jpg&imgrefurl=http://concerts.caltweet.com/lady-gaga/lady-gaga-monster-ball-tour-tickets/&usg=__xzRoh8TophJFj0kHAAuy8CUzB7w=&h=600&w=400&sz=82&hl=en&start=6&zoom=1&tbnid=q-EUHVQX66UBTM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=90&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlady%2Bgaga%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-USfficial%26biw%3D1440%26bih%3D715%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1
I'm not saying that this isn't hot, cause it is, but if you walk down the street like that (and unfortunately quite a few people do) you CAN'T expect me to take you seriously.
Remember the saying/quote that is used so often? "Just because I dress like a hooker, doesn't mean you should treat me like one."
You know what, I won't but hell if you even THINK I'll take you seriously, women like that make feminists and the women who fought for their rights in the past cry a little inside.
This makes me sound like a total douche but, **** it.
Edit: You can deny those vids ALL you want, but the fact they are VERY popular with both men and women (I have heard this song being played from my own friends and family alike, women of course)
Edit: Don't even get me started on Twilight, i'm sorry but the main female lead is FAR from a feminist, and yet the movie is very popular with the women.....huh?....
and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEe_eraFWWs
To me feminists in the past were shooting to be seen more like: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.starwarped.net/files/papers/page-2/1024/princess-leia-Star-Wars-wallpaper.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.starwarped.net/Star-Wars-wallpapers-backgrounds-desktops-1.htm&usg=__Odd5OiDrxoqdFoQxHrqvs1ewVu4=&h=768&w=1024&sz=95&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=1_10cKRTq8etGM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=184&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dprincess%2Bleia%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US
fficial%26biw%3D1440%26bih%3D715%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C114&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=245&vpy=153&dur=87&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=150&ty=132&ei=ITCUTJnyAYLSsAPV6cHlCQ&oei=2S-UTNG_O4eosQPfkoDACg&esq=14&page=1&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:0&biw=1440&bih=715.Independent, somewhat conservative, but damn sexy
BUT women today are more like:http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://concerts.caltweet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/lady%2Bgaga.jpg&imgrefurl=http://concerts.caltweet.com/lady-gaga/lady-gaga-monster-ball-tour-tickets/&usg=__xzRoh8TophJFj0kHAAuy8CUzB7w=&h=600&w=400&sz=82&hl=en&start=6&zoom=1&tbnid=q-EUHVQX66UBTM:&tbnh=135&tbnw=90&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlady%2Bgaga%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US
fficial%26biw%3D1440%26bih%3D715%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1I'm not saying that this isn't hot, cause it is, but if you walk down the street like that (and unfortunately quite a few people do) you CAN'T expect me to take you seriously.
Remember the saying/quote that is used so often? "Just because I dress like a hooker, doesn't mean you should treat me like one."
You know what, I won't but hell if you even THINK I'll take you seriously, women like that make feminists and the women who fought for their rights in the past cry a little inside.
This makes me sound like a total douche but, **** it.
Edit: You can deny those vids ALL you want, but the fact they are VERY popular with both men and women (I have heard this song being played from my own friends and family alike, women of course)
Edit: Don't even get me started on Twilight, i'm sorry but the main female lead is FAR from a feminist, and yet the movie is very popular with the women.....huh?....
Very few people who you'd think of as feminists or call themselves feminists are actually so. Usually they're just a few chicks with a bad case of the misandry.
uh, it may seem like it, but I wasn't being sarcastic (how often do you tell ppl that?)Serenegoose said:
I'm basically saying GIVE WOMEN ALL THE RIGHTS MEN HAVE. Is that a bad thing?
Sheesh ... even when you take their side they still try to skin you alive.
The only thing I mean't by my last para is that women frequently say that they can do anything a man can do. And I agree (no really, I do). So why bother having a separate mens tennis champion, and a separate women's champion? Why not combine the 2 so that men and women go up against each other as well? It will be fun and what will anybody lose?
This. If you don't know the differences between "first-wave feminism" and "third-wave feminism" then you shouldn't make generalizations about feminism. If you do know the difference, you probably won't make generalizations because you understand the myriad of flavors it comes in (my favorite is cantaloupe). Kudos to you.oktalist said:
Not to be sexist in any way, but the people who have overly feminist behaviors and ideas tend to be very hypocritical in my view. They are mad at people for this and that (such as presidents only being men, ect.) but yet, they get mad at guys if we treat them like guys (such as making them pay for their dinner, not holding the door, ect.) which is out-right hypocritical to me. They ask for one thing and demand the opposite. I'm not saying they don't deserve the same rights as us guys, but make up your mind on either independence or chivalry.
Edit: Also, what is up with girls can do football and wrestling but guys can't play volleyball. There are a few guys whom I know would like to play volleyball but we can't play it because it is unfair to but guys up with girls but girls can play football and ram into guys like nothing flat? Where is the equality in that?
Edit: Also, what is up with girls can do football and wrestling but guys can't play volleyball. There are a few guys whom I know would like to play volleyball but we can't play it because it is unfair to but guys up with girls but girls can play football and ram into guys like nothing flat? Where is the equality in that?