FF 7 remake

[SuperDarkLink]

I'm on the fence about it. People have been asking about a remake since that ps3 tech demo they did a while back.

this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUY6uc4w3Zw

All that being said however, if its awesome then that might be enough to get me to buy a ps4.

 

[Silvanus]

and two, that they'll bastardize all the characters. Cloud is not a brooding loner. Aerith is not a pristine princess. Yuffie was actually somewhat funny in the original. Barrett is more then a bad Mr. T ripoff. Get it right, Square.

He's totally a brooding loner, for a good half of the game! He constantly makes sure everyone knows how little he cares about anything!

 

[lunavixen]

Ugh, can't they do a different FF game? Like FFVIII or FFIX? Can we please leave FFVII alone, its corpse has long since rotted away.

 

[zero_traveler]

I dunno, The more I listen to the narrator in the Trailer, and the way he talks about "The Reunion" and "The Promise" it makes me think more and more that I'm listening to one of the Jenova cultists.

You know, the 'failed' Sephiroth clones that you find all over the game in black cloaks, on your way to the northern crater?

 

[Fox12]

and two, that they'll bastardize all the characters. Cloud is not a brooding loner. Aerith is not a pristine princess. Yuffie was actually somewhat funny in the original. Barrett is more then a bad Mr. T ripoff. Get it right, Square.

He's totally a brooding loner, for a good half of the game! He constantly makes sure everyone knows how little he cares about anything!

Not true at all. Clouds cocky and determined. Hell, he's cracking jokes half the time. The only time he acts like a brooding loner is at the very beginning of the game, and after his identity crisis at the half way point. Both of which are totally justified, given the circumstances. Why can't a character be allowed grieve without being labelled an emo?

Bare in mind that the original writer had just lost his mother. The entire story is about the grieving process, and about working your way through that, to a happier and healthier place. It's the entire point of his character arc. He's not a static character, we seem grow and change throughout the narrative.

Now Squall, from FF8, on the other hand...

 

[kyp275]

I can't wait to see how they fuck it up.

Because they will.

Well sure, to some people, the mere existence of the remake itself is a fuck up, so there's no pleasing them - nor is there's any point in trying to.

The music will change and be J-Pop crap.

Yea, because that was totally what was playing during the trailer.

The graphics will make everyone look like emo fucks, rather than the usual diverse team. I like original FF Cloud, who was determined, rather than new "Life is suffering" Cloud in everything else.

First, lol at implying cast in original were not emo.

Second, lol at implying the 5 polygon model in the original could look like anything but expressionless 5 polygon models.

They'll cut bits of story. Because some of it is insensitive in todays world (play as terrorists? Dress as a woman? Prostitution? Genocide? Genetic engineering? Racist stereotypes? All there), and also because the new team is lazy as balls. FFV is being handled by the A Team, so who is handling this? Lightning Returns team? God help me if so.

I'm still playing as terrorists in CS, there's plenty of cross-dressing in FF14 right this moment, as for the rest, have you heard of this small niche game series called Fallout?

Just keep releasing it, and leave it alone. We're not Hollywood, we don't need to reboot anything.

Who's this "we" that you are apparently speaking for?

I was never the biggest fan of the original, but this was my first reaction as well when I heard of the remake, and the trailer only cemented it. The world looks nothing like in the original, on a very basic aesthetic level. When you are doing a remake, that is the first thing you have to get right, otherwise you will end up with a lot of fans being hit by a peculiar uncanny valley effect and getting pissed.

Yea, this world looks nothing like the original, which is why people immediately recognized Midgar and the playground when it showed up... oh wait.

Of course it might be good. It might be a very tasteful remake with just re-drawn, high-def backgrounds, high-poly models and a slightly updated combat system... and it might be raining money tomorrow. It could happen, but not likely.

Just like how the haters might actually wait and see the actual product before proclaiming the end of the universe. It could happen, but not likely.

 

[Silvanus]

Not true at all. Clouds cocky and determined. Hell, he's cracking jokes half the time. The only time he acts like a brooding loner is at the very beginning of the game, and after his identity crisis at the half way point. Both of which are totally justified, given the circumstances. Why can't a character be allowed grieve without being labelled an emo?

Of course he can, which is why I specified "the first half of the game"- I have no problem with his reaction to that. Throughout the first half, though, his response to almost anything seems along the lines of...

It's not my problem.

Not interested.

Don't really care.

And I don't say this as someone vaguely remembering it from long ago; it was pretty recently I played it for the first time.

Bare in mind that the original writer had just lost his mother. The entire story is about the grieving process, and about working your way through that, to a happier and healthier place. It's the entire point of his character arc. He's not a static character, we seem grow and change throughout the narrative.

Agreed.

Now Squall, from FF8, on the other hand...

Heh, Squall's a far bigger brooder, I'll readily admit that.

 

[GabeZhul]

Now Squall, from FF8, on the other hand...

Heh, Squall's a far bigger brooder, I'll readily admit that.

Though, if you think about it, he is going through the same process as Cloud.

Cloud suffers trauma before the beginning of the game (Sephiroth destroying his hometown and killing Zack) which gets erased by amnesia (due to Hojo's experiments), which stunts his ability to get over it and recover, leaving him broody and depressed over something he can't even remember.

In parallel, Squall suffers trauma before the beginning of the game (the loss Ellone), whcih gets erased by amnesia (he gets a GF, which erases that part of his memories without altering his actual personality), which stunts his ability to get over it and recover, leaving him broody and depressed over something he can't even remember.

The big difference is that while Cloud's story is about adults dealing with world-endangering stuff, Squall's story is a group of teenagers doing the same, with coming-of-age and romance-elements on top, which makes his character much more pronounced.

Though I admit, I might be reading too much into his character here, but that's how he came off to me from pretty early on. On the other hand though, Cloud goes through a much better emotional recovery, as he is aided by friends and Tifa in particular, while Squall just develops such a crush/fixation on Rinoa that it overpowers his other issues... But this kind of analysis is for another thread, I suppose, so I cut it here.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

You know as someone who first played this game oh...5 years ago, I seriously don't get the hype. Like at all. It was alright. It was basically a competent game. Absolutely nothing to write home about in a good or bad way.
I really worry for the industry if a remake of a what, 15 year old game, is met with tears of joy and heartfelt praise, worship and groveling at Square Enix's feet.
But then again i said the same thing about Grim Fandango and the reaction to that was "Oh...I had forgotten how dodgy and bullshitty this game was."
Here's hoping that happens with FF7, eh?

 

[Fox12]

Now Squall, from FF8, on the other hand...

Heh, Squall's a far bigger brooder, I'll readily admit that.

Though, if you think about it, he is going through the same process as cloud.

Maybe this is unfair, but I always felt like FF8 was trying to recapture the success of FF7, without understanding what made it work. It borrowed a lot of plot points. Unfortunately the ending killed it for me. I assumed Squall had some inner trauma, but then it turns out that he was just pining after his "sister." Except his sister isn't dead. She even visits throughout the story, talks to him, and Squall doesn't even recognize her. Even worse, he basically forgets her. And yet his trauma is supposed to be tied to her leaving, despite the other characters experiencing the same thing and reacting normal. At least Cloud remembered the main details. Worse, Squall actively abandons Rinoa, and fails to really change or develop. I was on board for most of the game, but the ending drained my motivation. Laguna abandoning his loved ones was the last straw for me.

I kind of liked the KH version of Squall a little more, strangely enough.

Cloud can be morose at times, but I feel like there's a lot of subtlety to his character that people miss. Including Nomura...

 

[Benpasko]

You know as someone who first played this game oh...5 years ago, I seriously don't get the hype. Like at all. It was alright. It was basically a competent game. Absolutely nothing to write home about in a good or bad way.

As Pat from the Best Friends put it, "You can't understand. Final Fantasy 7 came out at a time when the most technically advanced RPG in the world was Chrono Trigger." It's a lot more impressive in that context, no?

 

[FPLOON]

I'm curious if this remake would cover the storylines in both Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus... Granted, I wouldn't mind playing either of those storylines [again] alongside 7, but as long as they're referenced within 7's overall storyline, I'm fine with that kind of compromise...

Other than that, this remake better be worth the wait... or, at least, give an incentive to not just buy the original game off the PS3's PSN...

 

[GabeZhul]

You know as someone who first played this game oh...5 years ago, I seriously don't get the hype. Like at all. It was alright. It was basically a competent game. Absolutely nothing to write home about in a good or bad way.
I really worry for the industry if a remake of a what, 15 year old game, is met with tears of joy and heartfelt praise, worship and groveling at Square Enix's feet.
But then again i said the same thing about Grim Fandango and the reaction to that was "Oh...I had forgotten how dodgy and bullshitty this game was."
Here's hoping that happens with FF7, eh?

You have to view the game in its historical context. In its time, FFVII was groundbreaking in many ways. It's graphics were stunning, its ATB combat system (while not the first of its kind) defined the way JRPGs would play for years to come, and its story was unusually long, complex and coherent in that era. It was what we would call a "killer app" today for the PS1.

In some ways I consider FFVII something like the Ford T-model. It is old, rickety, ugly and sounds bad, but at its time it was revolutionary and without it we wouldn't have cars, or at least not the way we do today. In the end though it is still a vintage model that is a part of history. Now this comparison brings into mind the idea of just how well a modernized T-model would fare on the modern market, but I leave that discussion to someone else.

Now Squall, from FF8, on the other hand...

Heh, Squall's a far bigger brooder, I'll readily admit that.

Though, if you think about it, he is going through the same process as cloud.

Maybe this is unfair, but I always felt like FF8 was trying to recapture the success of FF7, without understanding what made it work. It borrowed a lot of plot points. Unfortunately the ending killed it for me. I assumed Squall had some inner trauma, but then it turns out that he was just pining after his "sister." Except his sister isn't dead. She even visits throughout the story, talks to him, and Squall doesn't even recognize her. Even worse, he basically forgets her. And yet his trauma is supposed to be tied to her leaving, despite the other characters experiencing the same thing and reacting normal. At least Cloud remembered the main details. Worse, Squall actively abandons Rinoa, and fails to really change or develop. I was on board for most of the game, but the ending drained my motivation. Laguna abandoning his loved ones was the last straw for me.

I kind of liked the KH version of Squall a little more, strangely enough.

Cloud can be morose at times, but I feel like there's a lot of subtlety to his character that people miss. Including Nomura...

I touched on the nature of his trauma before, and the reason he cannot get over it: While the game introduces the Gardens as this idyllic place, it is pretty clear that under the sleek buildings and the soothing ambient music it is a school that trains child-soldiers from orphans by giving them memory-erasing spirits, for profit. It is actually implied that every SeeD who uses GFs are affected by them in some major way, mostly by being stuck in a younger mental age than they appear. More specifically:

-Squall forgot about Ellone, but not her loss. This made him depressed and broody, but without him remembering the cause he couldn't get over it and therefore being depressed and broody became his default state.
-Seifer remembers that he wants to become the Sorceress' Knight, but he doesn't remember why, so it becomes an obsession that leads him to Edea's/Ultimecia's side.
-Quistis tried to take over the role of Ellone for Squall after she was gone, but she forgot that and so she mistook this initiative for having a crush on the guy.
-Zell and Selphie have less direct issues, but they are representing the "being stuck in a younger mental age" part better than others.
-Irvine is unaffected, because he only started using GFs recently. He just thinks cowboys are cool and Selphie is hot.

But then again, I put this together after replaying the game A LOT. If one only plays this game once (and why would they play it more, unless they are completionists like me?), it is impossible to gather all of these implications together. In a way, FF8 is waaaaaay too subtle, to the point of total obscurity (the whole stable time-loop part of the ending, which also justifies the existence of the much-maligned gunblade, makes even my head hurt.)

P.S.: When did Laguna abandon his loved ones? He left Raine behind because he was chasing after the kidnapped Ellone, who at that point was pretty much their adopted daughter. Once he caught up with her (and killed Adell in the process, because Laguna is cool like that), he sent her home to Raine because he didn't know that she died in childbirth (or that she was even pregnant, period), and he doesn't learn about it until much later because Esthar and Galbadia closed down the borders after the war was over. The only thing I can fault him for is not trying to look for them afterwards, but he didn't willingly abandon anyone.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

SNIP

You have to view the game in its historical context. In its time, FFVII was groundbreaking in many ways. It's graphics were stunning, its ATB combat system (while not the first of its kind) defined the way JRPGs would play for years to come, and its story was unusually long, complex and coherent in that era. It was what we would call a "killer app" today for the PS1.

In some ways I consider FFVII something like the Ford T-model. It is old, rickety, ugly and sounds bad, but at its time it was revolutionary and without it we wouldn't have cars, or at least not the way we do today. In the end though it is still a vintage model that is a part of history. Now this comparison brings into mind the idea of just how well a modernized T-model would fare on the modern market, but I leave that discussion to someone else.

But that's even worse! If it was only good because everything around it was crappy...
I get that at the time the graphics were good. At the time the characters were deep and fleshed out. At the time it was the end all be all RPG. At the time it was good!

But that's not today. FF7 isn't going to be the best looking game ever. It won't have the most fleshed out characters anymore. Its not going to be the highest rated RPG. It won't have any of what made it stand out, which was basically the era it was released in, to support it. FF7 is considered a master-piece and it will be compared to others. Its going to have to hold its own against Fallout, Skyrim, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Half Life, KOTOR.

It'll have to survive on two things: nostalgia and plot. And once people replay the very stale, predictable and dated plot from 15 years ago, that nostalgia is gonna die out very very quickly.
Games like FF7 should be put in a museum as a moment in video game history, and left there.
No one is remaking Pong or Pac Man.
And no one is entering a Model-T in the International Formula Masters.

 

[GabeZhul]

SNIP

You have to view the game in its historical context. In its time, FFVII was groundbreaking in many ways. It's graphics were stunning, its ATB combat system (while not the first of its kind) defined the way JRPGs would play for years to come, and its story was unusually long, complex and coherent in that era. It was what we would call a "killer app" today for the PS1.

In some ways I consider FFVII something like the Ford T-model. It is old, rickety, ugly and sounds bad, but at its time it was revolutionary and without it we wouldn't have cars, or at least not the way we do today. In the end though it is still a vintage model that is a part of history. Now this comparison brings into mind the idea of just how well a modernized T-model would fare on the modern market, but I leave that discussion to someone else.

But that's even worse! If it was only good because everything around it was crappy...
I get that at the time the graphics were good. At the time the characters were deep and fleshed out. At the time it was the end all be all RPG. At the time it was good!

But that's not today. FF7 isn't going to be the best looking game ever. It won't have the most fleshed out characters anymore. Its not going to be the highest rated RPG. It won't have any of what made it stand out, which was basically the era it was released in, to support it. FF7 is considered a master-piece and it will be compared to others. Its going to have to hold its own against Fallout, Skyrim, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Half Life, KOTOR.

It'll have to survive on two things: nostalgia and plot. And once people replay the very stale, predictable and dated plot from 15 years ago, that nostalgia is gonna die out very very quickly.
Games like FF7 should be put in a museum as a moment in video game history, and left there.
No one is remaking Pong or Pac Man.
And no one is entering a Model-T in the International Formula Masters.

The thing is though that Squeenix is not making this remake because they think they are going to make something that will be as grand as the original game, they are making it because the fans have been demanding it for nearly two decades and they are trying to garner their goodwill after the disastrous reception of FFXIII (and probably also to generate even more interest in the franchise for when FFXV comes out.)

also, to be fair, FFVII is not the first game in the series that is a put on a pedestal because it was ground-breaking in its time, and FFIV suffers much, much worse from the effect than FFVII.

Final Fantasy IV has practically defined the modern JRPG genre at its time (though the achievement is usually shared with another game, maybe the first Breath oh Fire or one of the Dragon Quest games... I can't remember). Anyways, beforehand you didn't really have any plots in JRPGs, which were in many ways modeled after western CRPGs based on Dragonlance and D&D at the time. There was a blurb at the beginning that set up some semblance of a plot, then you had a full party, go grinding and exploring. If there was any story, it was usually written in the manual for the games.

Along comes FFIV, and it completely changes this dynamic. Suddenly you have characters that are not just stat-blocks, a storyline and even a villain that is not just a generic "Maou/Evil Demon Whatever" you have to defeat at the end. At its time, it was more than ground-breaking; it single-handedly implanted the idea of having actual extensive stories in games into the mainstream.
...
Now try playing this game today, and get ready to be very disappointed. I know that I was, especially after hearing people rave about its plot for two decades... then it turns out it is boring, all-over the place and the great characters everyone sung odes about were completely two-dimensional that were hyped up only because before that gamers only had cardboard cutouts for characters.

Really, the only "great classic" JRPG that holds up even today is Chrono Trigger, and even that one was marred by blind idiot translation.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Great, Awesome. where's my FF6 rebuild.

I mean they caved and started doing this, so they should do a rebuild for FF6 to. -.- Cause FF6 is better.

This brings up a good time to ask all you ff7 fans

How many of you knew about Sephiroths killing Aerith before playing it?

This isn't even spoiler is it?

considering I'd played FF4, 5 and 6 before FF7 came out. wasn't that shocking, by then I already knew characters could die in a Final Fantasy.

 

[CaitSeith]

I only hope they keep the ATB system and the Limit attacks. Everything else is worth improving.

 

[elvor0]

It's nothing special really. The gameplay was mediocre to me, and I wouldn't call it the Best game of all time. The story was average at best, because "saving the world" hasn't been beaten to death right?

So what? That's the plot, not the story. Saving the world is a framing device that is perfectly fine to use. Are we not allowed to use fairly standard writing tools anymore because it's too mainstream? It's how you tell the story that's the important thing.

This brings up a good time to ask all you ff7 fans

How many of you knew about Sephiroths killing Aerith before playing it?

This isn't even spoiler is it?

I didn't. It was a genuinely shocking moment for me. I remember that much.

"Long ago, we looked upon a foreboding sky. The memory of the star that threatened all burns eternal in our hearts."

He's talking about Jenovah, I guess? I thought people didn't really know much about that in-game? Am I misremembering?

It could be Cloud or someone else referring to the meteor like a narrator who knows the ending might.

I'm guessing Red 13. He outlives Midgar itself, so he's certainly one of the only characters who would end up being old enough for the events of FF7 to be "long ago", presumably telling his cubs.

Did I say it wasn't allowed? No, I didn't, but the story was pretty predictable, but thats a given since I knew what to expect since the fans tend to spoil what happens. Like I said it was nothing special in my opinion, I'm not sorry if my opinion is different then yours regarding FF VII. Since it's pretty overrated.

I just don't think that complaining about the framing device of "save the world" is a constructive complaint. It's an epic fantasy game, /of course/ you're going to be saving the world. People are more than welcome to dislike it, just dislike it for reasons that are fair. To extrapolate I mean "I don't like that there is a villian" isn't a fair complaint, "I dislike the villian" is a fine complaint.

Also, can you really deem the plot as predictable if you'd been told and doubtless had the plot spoiled multiple times over the years? Thats kind of...."well I figured out what was going to happen" "Oh how so?" "Someone told me".

 

[Frankster]

No matter how this game turns out...

I'm looking forward to seeing the old limit breaks with fancy modern tech.

As well as cross dressing in glorious 1080 HD.

 

[Lightknight]

I'm the biggest fan in the world of FFVII (I will fight anyone who dares say otherwise), but I don't think this is worth getting a PS4. If it comes to PC or Xbox I'm in, but we'll see. There are a million ways to do this wrong, so I'm withholding judgement until I see how they're going to handle it.

They said it's a time release. "First on PS4" so I think you're safe if you're patient.

However, the biggest fan in the world would buy a PS4 to play it sooner rather than later. Come at me, bro. [/joke]

I have longed for a remake. It's hard as hell to go back to polygon graphic and this is coming from someone with 8th and 9th generation gold chocobos that did EVERYTHING in the game from the multiple sets of master material to all secret bosses. So I can't wait for this.

But I'm worried, I don't think Square Enix is in a healthy place to do this. I wish they could wait and see what how their next game is received before they implement that fighting style. This will likely just end up being a hack and slash game otherwise. Which may save the series, to be honest. Not sure how else they'd deliver a AAA modern title.

Great, Awesome. where's my FF6 rebuild.

I mean they caved and started doing this, so they should do a rebuild for FF6 to. -.- Cause FF6 is better.

If only it was also "better known".

Look, FF6 had a better story, yes. But FF7 brought wonder into video games in a way none of the previous ones have ever done. From the graphics and music (at the time was basically a world wonder), to the narrative of death and loss it worked with. FF7 hits home for a lot more people and FF6 just didn't do it in that way. Meaningful? Fun? Sure. I bet if FF7 does well then Square Enix will pop the better of their franchise out too and FF6 has got to be the top of that list.