FF7 remake most important ever, and that's not a compliment

[Caine Master]

I haven't played FF7 in many years and I'm really excited for the remake. For me, I enjoy the story more then most story heavy games today. I have no problem with the game play mechanics; I recently played FF8 and I enjoyed that. FF7 is still one of my favorite games and I'm so happy to play it again with updated tech.

Why do some people find it so bad that the game is being remade? Its not like they have to buy it. They can ignore the people that do like it if they want to.

 

[Lightspeaker]

I find that people who have never played FF7, are often the ones who cry out about it being overrated and not that good.

I have played it. First time a couple of years after it was released in fact. It is overrated.

That does NOT mean the same thing as "it was a bad game". Its a good game. A very good game in fact, but not without its flaws. Its still overrated because the fanbase treats it like the second coming of Jesus Christ. Frankly as far as I'm concerned it was surpassed in overall quality quite handily by FF9 and the combat system in FF10 absolutely demolished every FF game before it.

Hell, it was surpassed prior to release by both FF4 and FF6. Its only because it was the first big 3D one with a gigantic budget and huge amounts of marketing that people went so nuts for it in the first place. Which is understandable but results in a heavily rose-tinted view now. In contrast my actual first Final Fantasy was 8; which I have a huge soft spot for but I recognise and accept as one of the weaker entries in the series largely because of the bizarre and slightly broken stats and levelling system combined with the draw magic mechanic.

Again, its not bad. Its good in fact. I'm going to be buying it if only because of the disgusting way FF15 has seemingly turned out. (Seriously Squeenix, can't you make a proper turn based RPG anymore?)

Something closer to FFXII rather than FFXIII though because.....reasons.

God almighty I hope that was a joke because FF12 is, by far, the absolute worst put-together game in the entire series. That combat system was an abomination that should never have been within a country mile of a Final Fantasy game.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

the combat system in FF10 absolutely demolished every FF game before it...

God almighty I hope that was a joke because FF12 is, by far, the absolute worst put-together game in the entire series. That combat system was an abomination that should never have been within a country mile of a Final Fantasy game.

FF12 has the same exact combat system under-the-hood has FF10, you could even play FF12 just like FF10 if you wanted to. FF12 merely allowed you to automate all the basic stuff. Like everyone is at good health levels so I'll attack or that person is under 25% health so I'll heal them. It was all common sense stuff you just constantly had to do ad nauseam in prior FFs. I'm not praising FF12 system as great or anything, it was just merely better because it kept me out of blasted menus as much as possible. Put in if-then-else statements (gambits) in FF10 and it would play itself too.

 

[Fox12]

FF7 is the most overrated game ever

...

I've never played FF7

So what's the discussion value here, other then baiting fanboys?

In any case, it's not the most overrated game ever. It's not even the most overrated FF. Nor is it the greatest game ever made. It's a classic because it genre defining, pure and simple. It's best to ignore the loud voices on both sides of the argument and just accept it for what it is, based on its own merits. A heavily flawed, but influential work of fiction.

Honestly, this reminds me of the Twilight phase. The books and fans were bad, but nowhere NEAR as bad as the pompous critics who would not. stop. talking about it. We get it, you don't like something that's popular. We're all very impressed, now go find something useful to do.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Unheard of. The bulk of the mass appeal for FF7 was that it was the first Mass Marketed game in the series and was heavily so. It had a budget that the devs would have KILLED for with the previous games and most of it was in marketing. The PS1 and PS2 era was when games were being heavily marketed to the general public whereas before they were niche markets and the JRPG corner was essentially a niche of a niche. THAT's why for most of the people overrating the game it's because of nostalgia. For them, FF7 was their first one in the series. Not helped that for a large percentage of them the previous titles that first caught their attention were the piss-poor Playstation ports.

I believe there is no better retort than this:

So what, everyone who ever played it is suffering from a mass delusion that it was a good game? And the author of this article is the one person who saw it for what it was really was?

If you want this article in 9 words; "I'm not crazy! Everyone else is the crazy ones!!1!1!"

Those who cry "nostalgia" have clearly run out of actual arguments to use. Like I said, nostalgia only does so much; if something really hasn't age well or wasn't good then time would prove that. And it hasn't for FFVII. People STILL play it, people STILL like it, and it's STILL the gold standard for a gigantic chunk of the RPG fanbase. If it were overrated or aged badly it would have been commonly accepted by now like with Rare's Nintendo games, FMV titles, FF's 8, 12, and 13, tons of entries in the Ultima series, the early X-Com titles, and so on.

And that's before we get into the biggest and most baffling question: why? WHY are people so adamant in trying to label something as overrated or claim it wasn't as good as its fandom says? Where exactly did this "fuck our history" mentality pop up? This would be like trying to discredit cinema classics like The Godfather, Ben-Hur, The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly, The Sting, The Treasure of Sierra Madre, The Bridge on the River Kwai, Bonnie and Clyde, Patton, The French Connection, A Clockwork Orange, Deliverance, American Graffiti, Chinatown, Jaws, Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark, and others just because they're old. And ultimately, this is what we would earn from it: NOTHING. We would, at best, have some guys getting a little self-satisfaction out of smugly proving one game is overrated. We don't learn from it, we don't suddenly get better games, it doesn't somehow erase FFVII being the biggest reason Sony's PS1 wasn't just a short-lived experiment, and it doesn't change how it is still the best-selling and most critically acclaimed game in the series.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I find that people who have never played FF7, are often the ones who cry out about it being overrated and not that good. It's like a group of hipsters that stand around smoking cigarettes and talking about how games only really mattered when the graphics were so blurry and pixalated that it took real imagination to make the game worthwhile.

Final Fantasy VII was the first Final Fantasy game I'd ever played and I still say it's one of the most overrated game in history. My personal favorite is Final Fantasy III/VI. Make no mistake, FFVII is by no means a terrible game, but better Final Fantasy games came before it and... well before it.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

I don't get the complaints about the combat? I absolutely love turn based or ATB battles, and FF7 does them incredibly rhythmically and stylishly, with a wonderful amount of flexibility and development.

 

[darkcalling]

I've played FF7 (not when it was brand new, I played 8 first) and I never liked it.

I liked parts of it. Random battles and turn-based combat are something I've always liked and something I miss in rpg's.

What I hated were the characters. Cloud is a dull near emotionless idiot. The only emotion he showed was when he was in an emo coma for about 3 hours worth of gametime. Aeris was useless in gameplay terms since due to the materia system there wasn't really anything she could do that no one else couldn't do as well or better. I actually cheered when she died because i'd never feel obligated to use her again.

Sephiroth was a terrible villain. His entire motivation seemed to be "they grew me as a weapon? Then I'll kill them all!" Jenova or even Dr. Hojo were more the true villain, but jenova was in inscrutable eldritch abombination with no actual characterization, and Hojo almost seemed like an afterthought.

With all that plus multiple not really sequels and prequels wearing out their welcome, the only good thing I can see in the remake is that the fanboys have what they want and can finally stop begging for it.

You couldn't pay me to play this game.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I remember getting FF7 for my PSX in my preteens, and it was a pretty good game, but by no means great. Even at the time the graphics it used were really inconsistent and it looked like ass, that's even compared to FF8 and FF9 both of which were on the PSX too. It's one of the worst looking PlayStation games I've still ever seen to this point, to the point that it even makes the ugliest N64 games look amazing. If they can make the art consistent and good looking then it deserves a remake just for that. The voice acting really sucked too, any improvement to that would be welcome.

As far as narrative, well FF4, 6, 9, and 10 were all better, though the story is good enough.

Honestly FF7 is vastly overrated, it's still a good game, but god is it an overrated one. I think one reason is most people who played it were around my age and younger at the time, when they did, so the nostalgia glasses are on for it. Still, it's vastly overrated.

 

[Bat Vader]

Analysis like these are bullshit tbh, and articles like these show how thick said analyser's are.

FF7 is about wonderful setups, rhythmic movement and flow (both in story and battle), complimented by stunning music, camera shots and atmosphere to create an absorbing and immersive RPG. Picking things apart such as dialogue show just how dumb said pickers are. It's like having a wife who cooks amazing, cleans like a trooper, is a super mum, and then someone saying "she's a bit boring with conversation" - it totally misses the point.

All the points he points to may be flawed in isolation, but that's like saying Maradonna wasn't a great tackler or Winston Churchill wasn't great with the economy. All it does is display said critic's ignorance and incapability to actually grasp the point of them in the first place.

To further that, these mathmatical ways of analysis are generally bullshit and they have been killing gaming for years.

"Not truly open world", "Another 'save the world' story", "no ammo", "no voiced protagonist" etc. etc. - all these bullshit complaints mean absolutely nothing in context of game enjoyment, and the fact that devs feel obliged to keep these scrotes who set these false standards happy means we get dross games like Dragon Age:Inquistition and Mass Effect 3, instead of class ones like Dragon Age:Origins and Mass Effect 1.

These people are actually killing gaming, and I urge devs to ignore this bizare drone they all seem to spew forth. If you begin to look at it, it's usually issues in their own lives which their can't/daren't solve, so various media serving as an outlet for that, nothing more.

The whole point of a critic is to criticize stuff though. That's their main thing. What's wrong with picking things apart? If a game has weird or terrible dialogue people should know that the dialogue is weird or terrible. Shitty dialogue can ruin the immersion for me in a game. I highly doubt what these people say are killing gaming.

I bought and played FFVII back when it was released on PC again and I didn't really care for it. I thought it was decent but nothing special.

I don't get the complaints about the combat? I absolutely love turn based or ATB battles, and FF7 does them incredibly rhythmically and stylishly, with a wonderful amount of flexibility and development.

Some people don't like turn based combat. I sure don't. Most battles felt like a boring slog to get through. There were a few I liked but they were few and far between. My favorite combat systems in JRPGs is the combat system in Kingdom Hearts II and the combat system in Tales of Xillia.

 

[Lightspeaker]

the combat system in FF10 absolutely demolished every FF game before it...

God almighty I hope that was a joke because FF12 is, by far, the absolute worst put-together game in the entire series. That combat system was an abomination that should never have been within a country mile of a Final Fantasy game.

FF12 has the same exact combat system under-the-hood has FF10, you could even play FF12 just like FF10 if you wanted to. FF12 merely allowed you to automate all the basic stuff. Like everyone is at good health levels so I'll attack or that person is under 25% health so I'll heal them. It was all common sense stuff you just constantly had to do ad nauseam in prior FFs. I'm not praising FF12 system as great or anything, it was just merely better because it kept me out of blasted menus as much as possible. Put in if-then-else statements (gambits) in FF10 and it would play itself too.

Saying that makes me think you haven't actually played 10 or any FF other than 12 (since you explicitly mentioned having played 12). Because FF10's combat is nothing like 12s and, indeed, is nothing like anything I can remember from other games. And 12s is drastically different to any other Final Fantasy outside of the MMOs.

FF10 wasn't an ATB system like that used in games since FF4. It used an action order system (referred to as CTB) in which characters took their actions in a specific order according to an explicitly clear timeline. This meant that firstly you could actually consider your actions without 'worrying' about having to do it quickly (as happened in at least some iterations of ATB), secondly it was MUCH clearer of in which order actions would be taken meaning it was more tactical and thirdly it had the single finest summoning system of any Final Fantasy.

And you cannot play 12 like any other FF game other than the MMOs. Because it was an open area battle system rather than the random encounters system with a separate battle screen seen in every single other main Final Fantasy prior to it and as also seen in 13. It was also largely pointless and difficult to control all three characters at once which was a stepping stone to the "control one character only" silliness of FF13, which I personally think was the most ridiculous idea in that entire game.

 

[LetalisK]

I don't think it was a very good game and got most of its mileage simply because it was ambitious, but I hate when people come down and by fiat declare something is shit or good as if their personal taste means shit. I don't like FF7. That doesn't mean no one else is allowed to like it. "If we're being honest"? Jesus.

 

[Danbo Jambo]

The whole point of a critic is to criticize stuff though. That's their main thing. What's wrong with picking things apart? If a game has weird or terrible dialogue people should know that the dialogue is weird or terrible. Shitty dialogue can ruin the immersion for me in a game. I highly doubt what these people say are killing gaming.

I bought and played FFVII back when it was released on PC again and I didn't really care for it. I thought it was decent but nothing special.

It's not wrong to pick things apart, but it is wrong to do it mathematically as if certain aspects not being up to scratch take away from the game's overall experience. When what the whole experience is actually about has little to do with said aspects.

They are killing games, because you end up with companies like Bioware trying to appease everyone, and worrying about stuff like having to be open world, having to have action based combat instead of turn based, etc. etc.

It's bollocks. So long as it's a good experience then that's all that matters. Emotion and an enjoyable experience isn't to do with maths, yet we've these scientific types trying to turn everything into a formulaic mass production product.

Some people don't like turn based combat. I sure don't. Most battles felt like a boring slog to get through. There were a few I liked but they were few and far between. My favorite combat systems in JRPGs is the combat system in Kingdom Hearts II and the combat system in Tales of Xillia.

That's fair enough, but again we're back to out of context criticism.

You don't buy a driving game then state you don't like driving mechanics, or by a RTS game then say you much prefer turn based combat.

Criticizing FF7's ATB system is like going to a prostitute and moaning that she's a bit easy, or drinking 12 pints of lager and moaning it's made you fat - you know what you're getting and you shouldn't be surprized.

I love the ATB system and FF7 battles, they're about great atmosphere, exciting camera shots and dramatic attacks. It's one great show like watching KISS' Ace Frehely fire a rocket out his guitar and Gene Simmons fly up to the roof. If you start whining about Ace's inability to shred or the cheesey nature of songs you've missed the entire point. Hence why that critic is thick and coming from the angle of "too dumb to grasp the game in context"

 

[Orga777]

Found this today.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven-petite/if-we-are-being-honest-ab_b_7617648.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

TL;DR (even though it's not too L to R): FF7 is the most overrated game ever.

It has aged terribly, but even compared to other games that came out around the same time, it was never very good. The story is bland, the dialogue is awful, the world is uninspired, and with all the things it tried to do at once, it did none of them well.

Now, I've never played FF7, but we all grew up suckling at its teat regardless of whether we personally partook or not. And whether it's actually good or not, I really enjoy lobbing grenades at the untouchable classics.

So. Discuss.

Eh. There are more overrated Final Fantasy games. Namely IV and X, which while both have amazing game play, the story is a bit wonky and plot contrived to such a high degree that it can feel disjointed. VII is actually pretty decent when all things considered when it comes to story. It really isn't even a bland story. There are some messed up moments in the game, especially when dealing with Hojo. There is also a strong sense of finding yourself in the story, and despite what Advent Children would do to Cloud, he really isn't that mopey through most of the game. He is a bit off-putting early on, but he gets better pretty much as soon as he meets Aerith, and he doesn't stay down long even when his mind is getting totally f-ed with by Sephiroth.

I wouldn't even say the world is uninspired. There is very strong set-up and atmosphere through most of the game. The setting is bleak because of the story they are trying to tell.

The dialogue is less a problem than the rather shoddy translation of the game. Pretty much every English translation of Final Fantasy I-VII had horrifically bad translations. They didn't start getting better till IX (maybe VIII, but the dialogue in that game I think was just terrible in both versions), and none of the older games got a decent translation till their re-releases on the GBA where the dialogue was cleaned up and actually makes sense. Which is why if people are going to play Final Fantasy VI (the best one) they should get the GBA version. Final Fantasy VII never really had a cleaned up translation in comparison.

Now, besides that, no, the game did not age well at all. The graphics are pretty terrible and the look is not really good for today's sensibilities. Of all the games in the series, this one probably aged the worst. IV-VI get by with classic 16-bit sprite based graphics that age very well over time. I-III are not that great in the old 8-bit style they had, but it still looks okay, and these games all had nice remasters later on that made them more in line with the 16-bit games and they look great. VIII still looks pretty good for a PS1 game, and IX had a more stylized look that also aged nicely. VII doesn't really have this stuff going for it at all. I guess it was good at the time, but, really, it did age poorly in that department. However, a remake would obliterate that issue completely. So it shouldn't be an issue there. Although, I hope they tone down the hyper-realism. That tends to age poorly the older it gets.

In conclusion... you really should play the game. I wasn't even one of those people that grew up with the game. I started with VIII and X, moved on to XII, then IV, V, and VI, followed by I and II before I ever played VII. I was worried going into the game, too, since it was all reputation, and the feelings on it were mixed, really. However, I played it and after playing every game in the main series, it is probably the third best in the series overall. I only put VI and IX over it when it comes to overall quality. VII isn't that bad a game.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Saying that makes me think you haven't actually played 10 or any FF other than 12 (since you explicitly mentioned having played 12). Because FF10's combat is nothing like 12s and, indeed, is nothing like anything I can remember from other games. And 12s is drastically different to any other Final Fantasy outside of the MMOs.

FF10 wasn't an ATB system like that used in games since FF4. It used an action order system (referred to as CTB) in which characters took their actions in a specific order according to an explicitly clear timeline. This meant that firstly you could actually consider your actions without 'worrying' about having to do it quickly (as happened in at least some iterations of ATB), secondly it was MUCH clearer of in which order actions would be taken meaning it was more tactical and thirdly it had the single finest summoning system of any Final Fantasy.

And you cannot play 12 like any other FF game other than the MMOs. Because it was an open area battle system rather than the random encounters system with a separate battle screen seen in every single other main Final Fantasy prior to it and as also seen in 13. It was also largely pointless and difficult to control all three characters at once which was a stepping stone to the "control one character only" silliness of FF13, which I personally think was the most ridiculous idea in that entire game.

I said "under-the-hood" FF12 is the same. You could literally play FF12 one character at a time if you wanted to, it would take forever, but you could do it as you could pause the battle and issue commands at any time. There was an order to when everyone acted in FF12 based on their speed attribute just like in FF10, Rikku would go like 3 times for every one turn of Auron. Come on now, FF10 wasn't strategic, I always knew exactly what to do on my turns. I barely even died in FF10 (I only died occasionally on a boss) and I didn't grind either, the game was so easy. FF10 was like using a computer program instead of playing a game whereas FF12 was programming a computer program. Put gambits in FF10 and it would play just like FF12. If a few if-then-else statements will make the game play itself, it's not strategic or tactical. You wouldn't be able to make XCOM play itself with a few if-then-else statements. I like turn-based combat when it is actually strategic and tactical, FF10 was not that at all. When a turn-based combat system has no character positioning to it, you lose most of the strategy.

 

[Orga777]

Saying that makes me think you haven't actually played 10 or any FF other than 12 (since you explicitly mentioned having played 12). Because FF10's combat is nothing like 12s and, indeed, is nothing like anything I can remember from other games. And 12s is drastically different to any other Final Fantasy outside of the MMOs.

FF10 wasn't an ATB system like that used in games since FF4. It used an action order system (referred to as CTB) in which characters took their actions in a specific order according to an explicitly clear timeline. This meant that firstly you could actually consider your actions without 'worrying' about having to do it quickly (as happened in at least some iterations of ATB), secondly it was MUCH clearer of in which order actions would be taken meaning it was more tactical and thirdly it had the single finest summoning system of any Final Fantasy.

And you cannot play 12 like any other FF game other than the MMOs. Because it was an open area battle system rather than the random encounters system with a separate battle screen seen in every single other main Final Fantasy prior to it and as also seen in 13. It was also largely pointless and difficult to control all three characters at once which was a stepping stone to the "control one character only" silliness of FF13, which I personally think was the most ridiculous idea in that entire game.

I said "under-the-hood" FF12 is the same. You could literally play FF12 one character at a time if you wanted to, it would take forever, but you could do it as you could pause the battle and issue commands at any time. There was an order to when everyone acted in FF12 based on their speed attribute just like in FF10, Rikku would go like 3 times for every one turn of Auron. Come on now, FF10 wasn't strategic, I always knew exactly what to do on my turns. I barely even died in FF10 (I only died occasionally on a boss) and I didn't grind either, the game was so easy. FF10 was like using a computer program instead of playing a game whereas FF12 was programming a computer program. Put gambits in FF10 and it would play just like FF12. If a few if-then-else statements will make the game play itself, it's not strategic or tactical. You wouldn't be able to make XCOM play itself with a few if-then-else statements. I like turn-based combat when it is actually strategic and tactical, FF10 was not that at all. When a turn-based combat system has no character positioning to it, you lose most of the strategy.

Why are you comparing a game like XCOM, which is a turn-based strategy game, to a standard turn-based RPG? ALL standard RPG's can be optimized in a way that make the player broken. This is true in Final Fantasy games all the way up to Dark Souls. Do not compare apples to oranges. It doesn't work. However, I liked to play the game with only about four gambits on per character and with me taking control of all the action myself. It feels more hectic and fun that way instead of letting it play all on its own... also, Final Fantasy XII is very underrated. I love that game.

It is true that X is pretty easy, though. The game is not really a challenge. My last play through I died only once to Seymore at Gagazet, and that had had to do with his dumb random damaged missiles wiping out the whole party... >.<

 

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

Ummm, anyone care to explain why we should care about gaming opinions from a traditionally more political publication? I saw Huffington Post in the link and already knew I didn't have to click the link as anything said in the article wouldn't even be worth the grain of salt it's served with due to the fact that they're hardly a reputable source for gaming information/news.

Really any point the author of that article brings up can be easily countered with two questions: "Who the hell are you? And why the hell should I give a damn about what you think regarding any game?"

Well you're absolutely right that hearing Huffington Post does not conjure thoughts of video game journalism or pop culture phenomena. And I almost didn't bring this up because of the likely questionable source.

But if they have people writing articles about video games, I think we can assume that they hired people who at least know something about them. This guy may work for a primarily political publication, but his opinion is not automatically less than yours because of it.

Besides, can you really trust ANY game journalist these days?