FFXIII-2 inevitably got a 40/40 from famitsu.

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nohorsetown

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Well, I've read four pages of comments, and by now the thread title might as well be "Let's all talk about Final Fantasy!", so what the hell, I'll chime in.

I only recently bought FF13. I held off because I suspected I wouldn't like it. But I was curious, the price had come way down, and it was used at Gamestop, so I could always take it back. Yeah, I took it back the next day. I tried to like it. I gave it about an hour before I started skipping all the cutscenes. Sazh was almost tolerable; the other characters were absolutely atrocious.

I played for about five or six hours (skipping all the cutscenes) so the battle system could open up a bit. If you skip the cutscenes, the battle system is basically all there is, because there's no exploration, scant customization, and the setting sucks (that last part is purely opinion, I know). I give the battle system an "E" for effort. It's nice that they tried something new, but IMO it failed. The only part that had potential, for me, was the full-HP-for-each-battle dynamic. Since you always go into a fight at full strength, your success is based on immediate tactics/strategy, rather than how well you conserved your potions or predicted the boss fight. Unfortunately, the battles were uniformly easy, and you could still grind in other ways. Methinks you kinda have to go all-in with a battle system like that. Chrono Cross almost did it.

What's that? You want me to list my favorite Final Fantasy games? Of course you do. That's what these threads are inevitably for. Just counting the main series, I'd say:

1 and 12 = the best
5 and 6 = darn good
7 = pretty good
8 = tolerable
all the others = bleh (tho 4 gets an honorable mention for lots of awesome music)


I've never read Famitsu, but I'm not at all surprised that they'd give too-good-to-be-true ratings to games that deserve them.
 

Brawndo

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When you compare the anticipation and hype surrounding post-FF7 releases to post-FFX releases, you'll realize that the Final Fantasy series hasn't been relevant among mainstream Western gamers since FFX.

Personally I doubt I'll touch another FF game unless they make a direct sequel or remake of the original Final Fantasy Tactics (this doesn't include the Advance spinoff in my opinion).
 

F4LL3N

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Trishbot said:
I beg to differ. I've been a devoted FF fan since the NES days and I went into FF13 with a very open mind... and I walked away with a LOT of problems noticed and FF13 as my least favorite core FF title ever.
While I do consider myself a FF fanboy; being the only game I would consider myself a fanboy of, I have missed most of the titles - pretty much all the most praised ones like FFVII, FFIX or whatever... But I don't think you have to have played all the titles if you're looking at it as it's own game. It probably was lacking compared to previous entries, but change is still welcome. Especially when most people constantly complain about lack of innovation.

"Linearity" is not necessarily the problem. In my game design classes, we were taught to follow the "string of pearls" design philosophy; what that means is you create a narrative thread, something that is linear and story-driven, and then you give the players a contained area of exploration and freedom, just enough to engage them and make them feel as if they are in control. Once they accomplish their goals, you inject a new string (cutscene, dialogue) that leads them to a new pearl (gameplay, exploration, puzzle-solving, discovery). Rinse and repeat.

That means every game is "linear". The problem is FF13's "pearls" are not very good or gameplay-centered. The "strings" are given priority. The illusion of freedom is barely there, the sense of player control highly limited, and the feeling of self-fulfillment and investment diminished. Therein lies the difference.
But I don't see how that's a problem. Especially if you realize most games are only giving you the illusion of freedom. Rather than having two paths that lead to the same area, you only have one... Sure, I would have liked it to be a little more open too. It could have and probably should have had towns and mini games. But it didn't, so I looked past it and enjoyed it for what it offered. Most people can't even comprehend looking past this aspect and simply accept it. From what I understand lots of FF games have towns and mini-games. FFXIII didn't. A bit of change, so what. If they completely scrap the idea of towns and mini games from every future title, then we've got a problem.

F4LL3N said:
"JRPGs are stagnant!" ...FFXIII innovated too much. Awesome argument you have there.
I certainly never said that. I know plenty who have, but they're wrong. That doesn't mean FF13 isn't a poor example of a JRPG. It regresses the entire genre and puts the game on a sense of autopilot, doing very little "new" yet removing so many beloved features with so little evolution.
I personally didn't mind any feeling of autopilot I may have received. As mentioned above, they did things a little different. I really don't have a problem with it. If every future title has this, then we've got a problem. I genuinely enjoyed the game for what it had to offer. If me and plenty of others genuinely enjoyed it, it mustn't have been that bad. I haven't played every title to understand how much they truly changed, but I don't think that matters really. There's many others who have played all/most titles, and they obviously enjoyed the change.

F4LL3N said:
"FFXIII isn't even a game." Yet you play it... Contraception?
"Contraception" means to prevent pregnancy, dear... I think you mean "contradiction".

I've never heard this argument. Ever. Though it implies it is "less" a game and "more" an interactive movie. The gist of a game is interactivity, yet, by all reports and my own 100+ hours of experience with the game, it is the LEAST interactive game in the series. You can barely interact with the characters, story, battles, monsters, or even the level up system. It is ALL pre-planned, unlike FFXII which allowed for a wide range of customization, personalization, exploration, and modification. FFXIII strips control from the player at every turn while letting the bare essentials of its genre exist to string players along its convoluted story. Speaking of which...
I was referring to that Inception meme. I never said I was funny. ;)

I believe it was said earlier in this very thread, "FFXIII isn't even a game". I've heard it many times, seperate from the "interactive movie" argument. Although presumably on the same basis.

I felt I interacted plenty with the game. I would never sum up my experience with FFXIII as "auto-battle!" Even if it was lacking in interactivity, I don't think that's a gamebreaker. Sure this is subjective, like all things. But I simply accepted they were going for a tighter control on things. I certainly wouldn't want all my games to be that tightly controlled. But one every now and then isn't going to destroy my hope for future gaming.

F4LL3N said:
"I play games for their storylines..." FFXIII had TOO much story!1!!one!!two!
No. FF13 didn't have too much or too little story. What it had, pure and simple, was just a convoluted, nonsensical story that did nothing to ease players into its world of nonsense terms. Noxis Crystarium, L'Cie, fal'Cie, Cocoon, Gran Pulse, Paradigm Shift, Sanctum, Focus, Bodhum... what's the point of all this terms? The game never pauses to catch the player up to speed. -----SNIPPED THE REST----
The story was personally my favorite part of the game, and I felt it was presented alright. It felt unique and interesting. Don't ask me to explain the story, because I've forgotten it. Not because it's bad, but because I forget every story and most other things. Call it a mild case of long/short term memory loss if you must.

Although I've forgotten most of it, I definitely recall enjoying it. I couldn't name one piece that could be compared to it, storywise. Although I'm sure there's something out there. Well, there darn well better be. With lots of people saying it's the most cliche storyline ever created.

F4LL3N said:
"All you press is auto-battle!" I'm sorry, you mustn't have understood the concept of the Paradigm system.
To be fair, you can't win every battle with auto-battle... but you CAN win MOST of them. Especially at the beginning. Chapter 11 is where I was forced to abandon that practice (after around 28 hours of doing it), but then a second problem came in; you really only had one correct way of fighting the bosses and end-level monsters. You couldn't deviate from their one-way formula. I have killed so many damn giant turtles at this point that it's automatic for me... and it's also insanely dull, just as dull as mashing auto-battle.

Secondly, the game DOES auto-ability so many things I would like control over, like who my healers heal (and using a pheonix down on the party leader would help), where to place them on the battlefield (stop taking damage from the turtle's giant feet!), and the ability to summon from more than just one character (the party leader). The system isn't bad... but I can accurately say I auto-battled with no problems all the way to Gran Pulse.
Sure, I would have liked more too. But yet again, I accepted it for what it was and ended up loving it. It was fast paced. I didn't spam auto-attack every game. I regularly switched paradigms and choose individual attacks. I'm not sure if I needed to or not in some cases, but I quite often did anyway. I found enjoyment out of it rather than spamming auto-attack simply because it was an option. Lots of other games consist of one/two button battles systems. But it only seems to be a problem because it's FF.

F4LL3N said:
The game has been out for nearly a year and I still haven't heard a decent argument against it. The whole anti-FFXIII movement is one big copy paste.
Besides the examples I gave? I could also point out all the rules of game design the game breaks, from little ones ("tutorials should be non-intrusive, brief, and concise") to major ones ("cutscenes, narrative, and scripting should never get in the way of gameplay or player experience").
Well you can atleast back up your statements and understand your own beliefs. When I hear "FFXIII is the worse game ever" I cringe. Even if you don't like it, saying it's the worse game ever in any regard is a major copout. At the very least it was well polished. Which is more that can be said for lots of other games.

F4LL3N said:
I won't even get into the characters. Because obviously every game developer should be recreating the same copy-paste muscle bound dickhead with absolutely no personality or individuality. It would be the morally right thing to do, imo.
I would call Lightning a "muscle-bound dickhead"... because acts just like one, even if she has boobs. I'm actually a bit offended Square Enix thought that making a "strong" woman thought that meant she should physically punch and assault all her friends throughout the game and act snippy towards them. That's not even touching the morose and ironically-named Hope, the ear-bleedingly annoying Vanille, and the rather grating not-Balthier Snow. ---SNIP---
Well I can't comment much because I never played many of the previous titles. But I will say I'm over hearing "damn emo characters with no personaity, blah blah, etc" So you couldn't relate to them, or you didn't find them interesting... That doesn't mean they're terrible characters. There's 100,000 gaming characters and FFXIII's character are somehow the worse things ever created. I thought they were quite unique, even if they weren't as well fleshed out as they could/should have been.

F4LL3N said:
EDIT: At the very least, I've forgotten one.

"$60 for a 5 hour campaign is borderline evil!" ...FFXIII's intro is TOO long. Oh no, an 8 hour intro. I hate when companies give me too much value for money. I truly do.
"Value"? That's VERY subjective.

---SNIP---

The thing is... FF13's foundation IS strong... but nearly every FF game had so much more depth, content, and player freedom than FF13 did. On it's own, I found FF13 decent but lacking, but compared to its prior pedigree, it's extremely disappointing how shallow and restrictive it was.
Well, I for one never thought of the beginning as a tutorial. I wasn't 5 hours in thinking, "Umm HELLO! Can I play the game now?" I started playing from the time I placed the disk in the tray.

Imo, FFXIII is a solid, polished game with a bit of uniqueness, great story, great battle system (for what it was, I still prefer the typical turn based combat), the lore/universe... well that's half the reason I'm a fanboy. I love FF lore. The characters were unique and hardly unbarable. Sure, there's flaws and haters have some valid points. But it's hardly a terrible game. Haters often overract to EVERYTHING, and can't acknowledge that it actually WAS well received, people actually DO enjoy it. And often act as their verdict is fact without actually explaining why they believe what they believe. Really, in the same way CoD haters would spurt their hate. Not as bad, and certainly not everyone. But there's plenty who do.

Anyways, have fun with this wall o' text. ;) And I'm not fixing the quoting errors. Too lazy at this point. EDIT: Okay, I fixed them.
 

Fleetfiend

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GreatTeacherCAW said:
I actually liked FFXIII a lot, and I've been following this one pretty closely. It is looking amazingly sexy, both in terms of graphics and gameplay. I would have given FFXIII a solid 30/40, honestly. My biggest gripe with it was that every enemy had 400 billion HP. Made every fight last forever. That and the forced grinding once you got to explore. Other than that, I enjoyed it. And with all the new things FFXIII-2 is bringing, I can see myself liking it just as much, if not more.
I agree with you a lot. I can see why some people are really annoyed at the game, but I honestly don't think it's near as bad as people say. I actually enjoyed the combat system... a lot! The only things I didn't like were that the story didn't flow very well... to me, it felt like the writing was just bad. Also, I didn't like the linearity, but it wasn't so bad for me as to ruin the game.
 

T-004

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XII far less interactive? XII was as interactive as you wanted it to be.

If you wished to you could program the gambit interface to fight automatically, however if you prefer control then you can choose to control one/all of the characters manually.

Also the abilty to choose where I go and when is a plus point.

Final Fantasy XII was a game that gave you a massive amount of choice unlike XIII.

And back on to thje point of the OP, Famitsu have been in a serious love affair with Final Fantasy ever since VII and probably long before that. The only way a Final Fantasy game will get a low score is if someone Squeenix shite into the review copy case, but even then it would be a 25/40 at the lowest :p
 

Ragnarok185

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from what I see FFXIII-2 has:
Towns
Minigames
Branched Storyline
Side-Quests. let's see people hate on it now.
 

LilithSlave

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Like others have stated, it's at least less linear than the last. So maybe at least a little more deserving of such a score than XIII.

... this means I need to finally finish XIII, though. So I'll not spoil myself by playing XIII-2. And I thought Final Fantasy XIV was a heck of a lot more entertaining than XIII.
 

Akihiko

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It's tragic that even nearly two years after release, you still can't go on a forum to discuss anything related to XIII without a war breaking out.

I'm a bit torn regarding XIII-2. While the combat looks as fun as it was in the original, and the environments look amazing. I'm still deeply disappointed that the only two characters you can control are Serah and Noel. I didn't particularly like Serah in the first game, and I don't think Noel can carry the game alone. I guess I'll see when it comes out. I've been going out of my way to avoid spoilers from the trailers so I can go in as open minded as possible.
 

Al-Bundy-da-G

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GreatTeacherCAW said:
Pearwood said:
I'm gonna disagree too, FF13 was a good game. Not the best in the series by a long way but certainly around the middle. I thought the linearity was just the result of all those people bitching about FF12 being too awesome for them to handle and getting lost everywhere.
The hate for FFXII baffles me. I thought it was one of the best in the series. It certainly was in the top 3 for characters. Balthier for the win.
Yea it's up there next to X and IV in my opinion.

Didn't really care for XIII. The paradigm system, along with having almost no control over your character or party, is what really killed it for me. Don't get me wrong I really did try to like it, but around the time I was trying to get into the first city, I just kinda gave out y'know?
 

shemoanscazrex3

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Pearwood said:
GreatTeacherCAW said:
The hate for FFXII baffles me. I thought it was one of the best in the series. It certainly was in the top 3 for characters. Balthier for the win.
Yeah it was my favourite by far. Although I'm not sure about characters, Balthier is undeniably awesome but Vaan is undeniably a ***** so they might just cancel each other out.
my hate for it is that it bored me and I wasn't a fan of the battle system. Albeit I played about 30 minutes of it but I couldn't be bother with it anymore
 

Tanis

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Aug 30, 2010
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Does anyone, outside of Japan, take Famitsu seriously anymore?

Their reviews seems to have turned into the Japanese equivalent of GameInformer.