Fight like a .... coward?

[JB1528]

I'm sorry but I just have to call this cowardly. I guess I just have too much pride because I would rather take an asswhoopen rather than get robbed, punked, or "bitched".

Many people are saying you did the smart thing, and while thats's true you also chose the most cowardly option point blank period. And if your okay with that then that's you, but I personally would've hated myself for it. I've been in situations where I was confronted by two guys at once and I even in a situation where I fought a man who was easily twice my size and I never backed down. The only way he would've got me to back down was if he pulled a gun.

OP in all honesty I would have respected you if you made this thread talking about how you got beaten up by an unarmed male trying to rob you, but instead you get no respect from me. I know losing respect from some random guy on the internet doesn't mean shit to you, but damn man, you acted like a coward.

Am I dreaming? I always knew folks on the internet exaggerated about their own prowess and capability, but this takes the cake.

C'mon man, let's you and me go start a fight with some yardies. I'll be in the gutter, getting the shit kicked out of me while trying to crawl away before one of them pulls a knife and uses it.

So will you.

Is it really so hard to believe that a man will stand up for himself in the face of certain defeat? Believe or not some people actually do stand up for themselves no matter what in this fucked up world we live in. In my opinion I don't care if you lose and I don't care if you got a few bones broken, all I care about is the fact that you stood up for yourself.

4 years ago a guy twice my size stole my hat and was telling everyone he did it, laughing about it. Even though he was twice my size I still walked up to him and punched his ass in the face while his mouth was still open. I didn't care about winning that wasn't my goal, I didn't care about personal injury that was a risk I was willing to take, all I cared about was making him pay for trying to humiliate me. I held out as long as I could until bystanders came to break it up, I didn't win my face was pretty banged up but I made his face look pretty bad too. And all that was over a $20 hat I bought the weekend before. That day ended with my pride intact and my head held high, and I don't regret it for a second.

Be as cynical as you want but some people actually value their pride, maybe you don't but I do.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

SNIP

Im on a bike. Sitting on it. Getting off a bike quickly and keeping balence/ defending yourself while doing so is very very hard. Even if he didnt have a weapon, what do i do? How can i possibly try and fight/run while he is holding it?

 

[Alexi089]

I've got to say, it's amazing how tremendously vague keyboard warriors are in their re-collection of fights. I love how they all go 'So this pack of tigers came up to me and... cut to intermission... and so they went home crying'.

Seriously though, grow up. If your self esteem's so poor that you have to fabricate ludricous and near impossible stories to try to impress strangers on the internet, it's time to admitt you have poor confidence and make a concerted effort to work out why and what you're going to do to improve it.

How many of you keyboard warriors have actually been threatened with stabbing before? I have. It's scary. Here's why: I know a two or three inch stab to my abdomen could easily kill me. I know from jitsu training and gradings that even simulated 2 or 3 on one knife attack defenses can be hard to get perfect (and that's in somewhat idealised conditions). With real knives, you HAVE to get it perfect, or you're losing fingers, or substantial amounts of blood. How exactly would you recommend someone defend themselves while passing out from blood loss?

You honestly think even some homeless guy (in popular mugging and gang crime area, where there are others who might try to mug the mugger) is going to attempt a mugging without some sort of weapon or help? Even if he just had a brick or a broken bottle, he could do the OP some very serious damage, maybe kill him. And you assume that this guy is just gonna try to KO the OP, knick his wallet and run away. Sorry, what planet do you live on? This isn't a controlled contest fight. The mugger's not going to go 'awww, you got me!' and shake the OP's hand, if he thinks he might lose; he's going to get desperate and resort to anything to win.

My god, you fucking keyboard warriors. 'Brain dead children' is an understatement.

 

[II Scarecrow II]

This is the type of thing I was talking about.

If six men with knives jumped you and you tried to fight back, they'd probably have accidentally stabbed you in the confusions, even if they didn't mean to.

What you just wrote was complete BS.

You've probably never had a real fight in your entire life. You certainly don't sound like someone who has.

Did I say they ATTACKED me with knives? I said they HAD knives. People don't just jump out of the woodwork and attack you. They surrounded me, took out their knives and said give me your money. I could have left with a knife wound, beaten up or dead inside. I provoked them by saying "it takes 6 of you with knives to beat me? Fight like men, in which they kicked my ass. If you wish to contest it, speak against my scars, speak against the fact I lost some vision in one of my eyes, speak against the fact that I'm still angry and if I ever find them I give them a bit more than scars.

Well, it looks like you provided the perfect argument for NOT fighting back. Because of your foolish bravado, you were injured and I'd say losing vision is one of those things that you kinda need. I'm sure I'd be able to live with myself if I'd just given them the money, because talking brave to a bunch of armed guys is a lot less important to me than a few dollars. Plus, I still think your whole story is a pile of BS anyway.

Honestly, if someone just wanted some cash and didn't take anything else, I'd let them have it and probably wouldn't feel all that bad about it.

Now, if I got threatened, I'd resist. If they pulled a knife, I'd probably still resist. If they pulled a gun, I'd give them the money.

It's just part of who I am. Of course, I've never been robbed, so this is all speculation as to how I'd act. I'm pretty sure that I could take a knife from someone, because I've done it before. Empty handed, I'm pretty good too. If it was more than one guy...maybe not. I might be able to take two guys that were smaller build than me, but more than that, I'd just give them the money.

Actually, it's been proven that people are more likely to resist a person holding a gun on them rather than a knife. For some, a knife is far more intimidating than a gun.

Anyway, What you did OP was the right thing, and it's good to see you've accepted that. I saw a crash one time, and the guy driving was so upset that he'd wrecked the car, but one of the people on the scene was just glad that everyone was ok. What he said really stuck with me.
"Stuff can be replaced, cars can be repaired. People can't be."

So between losing 10 pounds or my life, they can have my money.

 

[synobal]

Nothing wrong with what you did, you know nothing about your opponent other than the fact he was robbing you, and had you at a disadvantage. Take this chance to start taking self defense classes, perhaps some sort of martial arts. It may not help you next time you get robbed or if there never is a next time, but you'll like knowing you can handle yourself if you ever have to.

 

[Grospoliner]

You should have ran him down.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

You should have ran him down.

This has to be my biggest regret. Guy seemed like he stumbled in front of me, i stopped on reflex. Kinda sucks. Wish he'd tasted asphalt.

 

[Phlakes]

my scars... the fact I lost some vision in one of my eyes... the fact that I'm still angry and if I ever find them I give them a bit more than scars.

Sounds totally worth it. I'm sure you made the right choice there. Definitely sure.

 

[Wicky_42]

In America the robber would have been shot. What? I'm just saying... shit gets bad over here...

Actually you did the right thing. If someone is trying to rob you, it's best not to get violent especially if you aren't armed. For all you know, the robber might have been armed.

... In American, the OP would have been shot, not merely asked to hand over his change, but hang on to his phone and bike.

Just saying, if we're going to be rolling out the generic, stereotypical gun thread arguments, might as well roll them both out

 

[Dr Snakeman]

SNIP

Im on a bike. Sitting on it. Getting off a bike quickly and keeping balence/ defending yourself while doing so is very very hard. Even if he didnt have a weapon, what do i do? How can i possibly try and fight/run while he is holding it?

Wait, I'm confused. Holding what? The bike? Wouldn't you have to get off anyway to give him the money? Once you're off the bike, that's when you figure out whether he has a weapon. When you find out, you respond accordingly. Armed: Fork it over. Unarmed: Call his bluff. "No, I'm not giving you my money".

I mean, it's one thing for the guy to demand money from you. It's quite another to back it up with physical violence. If he does swing at you, then you... reciprocate.

Well, that's what I'd do. I think. Maybe. Again, having never been mugged, I can't say for sure what my reaction would be. But you asked what I'd do, and now I've told you. As for whether I think you're a coward or not? Well, I don't know you well enough to make that judgement. I guess that your reaction showed some cowardice, but this wasn't really a situation that demanded bravery. I'd say you were a coward if you had just stood by and allowed the guy who robbed from you to kill someone, but that's not what happened. All that was lost was some money. I think your response to a robbery, while maybe not what I would have done, is definitely justified. You aren't a coward, you just show a little more discretion in what you will risk a broken nose for.

 

[Lead Herring]

Anyway, what exactly is pride good for? It means nothing to anyone else, in fact most people would look down on you for fighting over something so petty. You might be cool with dying for your pride, but such a death would probably only be frustrating to your friends and family. The way I see it, you save your fight for when something important is in danger, something that could change your life or the lives of those you care about for the worse.

 

[Alrocsmash]

Here is my take on any sort of physical situation. Bear in mind I am 6'5, 265lbs of basically muscle and have been practicing several styles of fighting for over 9 years, including competitive fighting.

Always fight. Why you ask? Because I do not trust this person or persons to leave me alone after they get my wallet phone etc. Example. A few years ago in my college town some coke head robbed a booze store, shot the owner after the owner gave him the cash in the register. Was caught a day or two later. The owner gave him the money then got killed for not resisting. That will not be me. My primary style of fighting is Systema. A Russian street fighting art which SOLE purpose is to kill your attacker. Period. If he is dead, he cannot kill me.

 

[Instinct Blues]

For 10 bucks? Hell no.

We'd say "It's not the amount, it's the principle" if you worked hard for what's in your pocket .. don't let them have a penny

Yeah thats good and all, but then when you have to pay medical bills for the beating you took protecting your money it won't seem worth it then. Especially since you're out a lot more money than you would have been if you just handed over the 10 bucks.

 

[Dr. wonderful]

Coward way?

Fuck that, you took the smart way.

 

[JB1528]

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I wasn't aware you'd apologised to the OP. I respectfully retract my statement regarding your comments towards him, and will edit my last post to you in order to make sure people know this.

I also apologise for any offence I may have caused you in my unecessarily harsh wording of my post. I try to pride myself on politeness and eloquence, and yet I frequently abandon both whenever things get heated, and make a dick of myself in the process when there was no need, whatsoever. I do not, however, believe that what I said warranted the response I got from you, and I don't think it's unreasonable for people to skip posts, but I'm not going to argue that right now.

I do, however, stand by what I said as to what constitutes as "dignity" and respectfully disagree with what you claim dignity actually is, although I inexcusably abandoned all pretense of "respect" I may have had going for me when I wrote the comment. I do this frequently, as a few users can attest, and I need to get it under control. As for whatever parts of my writing made me appear as though I was attempting to place myself on some higher level than you intellectually, I can ony say that I had no such intention.

I hope that the difference in opinion, animosity aside, can be explored with words and structured debate (providing you're still willing to discuss it) and can be done so with a tone of decency and politeness - again, something I claim to be an exponent of, even though I all too frequently forget about it when I get foolishly worked up about various issues.

Anyway, I hope this has cleared things up somewhat. I'm going to edit my posts now, in order to make my apology and desired change in tone clear to anyone who might ook through this later.

I got to say the community on The Escapist is one of the best communities I've ever seen. If I was on any other site arguing with any other user this debate probably would've taken a sad turn into a 3 hour argument that would've ended with petty insults thrown back and forth for the next 10 pages but instead we both realized when we crossed the line and apologized. This site is awesome.

 

[SsilverR]

For 10 bucks? Hell no.

We'd say "It's not the amount, it's the principle" if you worked hard for what's in your pocket .. don't let them have a penny

Yeah thats good and all, but then when you have to pay medical bills for the beating you took protecting your money it won't seem worth it then. Especially since you're out a lot more money than you would have been if you just handed over the 10 bucks.

First of all .. UK NHS ftw .. secondly, I'll never get into the habit of just giving someone my shit because it isn't worth it. I didn't invest money into martial arts and boxing for years just so i can stick my head in a hole when the shit hits the fan and wait until it's all over.

9/10 time anyone's ever tried to jack me they failed because i know the telltale signs of when someone tries to attempt it and can act accordingly. even if it's a few of them i usually notice that most of the guys friends will get disheartened or run if you hit the first guy hard enough.

I've never been stabbed but i've had some defensive cuts from a knife and a stanley blade along the outside of my forearms, the most i've ever had to go hospital for are stitches and a scan .. bruises, sprains and minor cuts i just sleep off. but still .. bottom line is "fuck them for thinking they can rob me"

most i hate about fighting is getting your clothes damages, shit falling out of your pocket and (since this is the UK) getting arrested and charged for defending yourself

 

[Archone]

I'm not going to list my size, strength, training, credentials... except to say that I used to write a self defense column for a now defunct e-magazine. Anything more than that is a pissing contest.

My critique to the original poster: doing something constructive immediately is better than figuring out the best thing to do after it's too late. So don't beat yourself up too much. You did get away alive and unharmed.

However, training is meant to help provide immediately available options. Furthermore, you have to understand the nature of the criminal mindset. All of us civilized and law abiding citizens choose to abide by a social contract, to live according to mutual standards of conduct. A criminal has chosen to act outside of these standards, to better themselves at the cost of the society they parasitically prey upon.

A carjacker thinks nothing of causing $1000 worth of damage to a vehicle in order to steal a $100 radio that will net him $20 from a fence. I have known criminals who murdered their landladies for trying to evict them, who have stolen computers and birth certificates from their childhood friends to pay for drugs, who have killed or crippled women just to get their purses. The criminal mindset, in brief, is "you are not me, therefore you are irrelevant."

So yes, you should have resisted. Once you gave him your money you made it clear you could be intimidated into giving things up. You are fortunate he didn't want to take more. He might have decided he could have sold your bike for a few quid. Or maybe beaten you up to avenge a collective racial insult percolating in his mind to justify his criminal activity (most criminals go through a process of rationalizing their actions in advance; by the time the mugger attacks he's already convinced himself that YOU stole from him first, and he's just taking back what society owes him). Not to mention that now that he has stolen from you, he remains free and rewarded, with motivation to go on to rob someone else. Perhaps the next victim won't be so lucky as you were.

Can you be "invincibly badass" through sheer force of will? No. Can you limit your chances of victimhood? Definitely. First, I recommend training. And a self defense tool (i.e. a weapon). You implied that you live in the U.K. where guns and knives are illegal; sticks are not. And personally I favor bludgeons over blades; high impact, low lethality. A walking stick or even a sturdy umbrella is legal and a much better choice than a cheap small knife. If nothing else, a multitool clenched in a fist as a "hand load" or a keychain lashing out like an edged flail works wonders.

Second is the mindset. Do not give in. Make it clear you have nothing to offer but mutual pain. And it may very well be mutual. You're not looking to be a lion or wolf. You're looking to be... a porcupine. A wolf can kill a porcupine... but the meat's not worth the pain. You don't have to be able to kill him with your bare hands or be capable of ripping his limbs off to be capable of presenting an wall of pure resistance. A criminal is looking for a victim, for an easy meal. Not someone who is going to bite and claw and kick and shriek hysterically.

You are a decent human being, and you have an innate resistance to the very notion of harming your fellow man. But remember, a criminal has absolutely no concern about your welfare or possessions. They have lost the right to the fair and civilized treatment you extend to the other members of polite society.

And I will add this: if you had fought the mugger, you may have looked into your mirror the next day and seen impressively swollen bruises and cuts all over your body. But you'd still be feeling better than you are right now.