Fight like a .... coward?

[JB1528]

EDIT: I since entered into the beginnings of an argument with the user I was responding to here, and doing so was unecessary. I was, to put it simply, getting far too hot-headed for my own good, and abandoned common decency almost immediately. I apologised to the user after he called me out on acting a dick, and despite the language he used, he was right. I also criticised him for doing something he apologised for, namely calling the OP a coward, and I'd like to make it clear that had I known, I would not have included that particular point in my posts. What follows is a version of what I said in this post as I wish I'd said it now:

*AHEM*
I honestly don't believe that the idea of pride can be judged by someones willingness to display physical prowess. You may claim that wading into a fight with someone simply because they have wronged you or infringed upon you in some way is the best way to do it, but I can't agree - I don't believe that pride can be judged that way. That makes it seem as though pride is something that is reduced when an individual suffers some sort of attack, and that they have to re-gain it by inflicting equal or greater damage upon the perpetrator.

To put it simply, this goes against every notion of pride that I belive in, most notably that it's what's inside that counts. No offense intended here, but in my eyes at least, I don't think that attacking someone the moment they've wronged you makes you look strong. The opposite, in fact. A stronger man, in my view, would have been able to refrain from attacking and simply begun by asserting themselves by trying to reason with the perpetrtor, before than resorting to just forcefully taking the hat back from him.

At least 50% of pride is knowing when to pick your battles, and knowing what it is and isn't worth getting worked up about. To put it bluntly, I feel that immediately attacking someone simply because you feel obliged to prove something about your own ability and bravery is a sign of insecurity, although I'm not going to be presumptuous to claim that you're guilty of this flaw, JB1528, simply that it tends to be an indicator of it. As far as I'm concerned, a stonger man isn't going o feel wounded or cowardly or in any way inferior simply because he chose a path that didn't involve charging into a fight.

The OP may have lost his £10, but he risked loosing a lot more if he'd attempted to fight for it against someone who would very likely have been able to handle him. My idea of a strong individual is someone who views this as an inconvenience, but not a loss of dignity - and it is my firm belief that acting as though you have something to prove to those who "cross the line", is a show of emotional or mental weakness.

I understand that thee's only one way that my ending there can be construed, but I don't mean to imply that you have some kind of problem - this is simply my opinion, I'm not trying to press these negative traits upon you simply because of yur beliefs, this is just my experience I'm talking from. I'm happy to hear your opinion on the subject in full, to hear what you have to say on what constitutes as pride, and how you feel someone should maintain it.

Well I do admit that I have a unreasonably rigid almost romanticized definition of pride that hurts myself more in the end. And in all honesty your definition of pride is just as credible if not more credible than mine is. It all just depends on your personal values that determine how strong your pride is. The OP doesn't place value in 10 quid or in punishing someone for a petty crime against him, so giving up the money without a fight is not necessarily cowardly. Being cowardly is not standing up for something you feel strongly in, but to the OP this was nothing but a petty robbery and not worth fighting for. When I thought about it in that sense I realized I was wrong for calling him a coward and retorted my statement.

What it all comes down to is that it shouldn't matter how other people feel about your actions, what matters is how you personally feel about your actions. And I definitely learned that today. When I saw the strength in the OP's resolve and how he handled me ignorantly calling a "coward", I saw I was wrong for forcing my sense of pride upon him and unreasonably acting like my sense of pride applies to all people regardless of what they place their values in, which is obviously not true.

I'm not going to say my definition of pride is better than your definition of pride or vice versa because that just boils down to our personal values and its just dumb for either of us to say our personal values is somehow more valid than the others. So I'll just end my statement with the age old saying "To each his own".

 

[krazykidd]

No, I haven't been robbed.

And I am...very confused. How were you robbed without coersion? You see, people sometimes ask me for money - for whatever reason - but that's not robbery. I can say no. You...can't have been robbed if the guy didn't do anything akin to a robbery. There's a line between that and donation, and I think you more or less donated.

You sir, have made me look like an idiot in public !
I was on the bus looking at this thread on the bus , and your post made me LOL so hard, people were looking at me weird ( because i was laughing and had sun glasses on at night.
Funny post thank you , totally worth it .

OT: First thing, are you a man or a woman ? I don't think any less of women ( and some girls i know can totally kick my or anyones ass ) , but if you are woman i think that what you did was smart , especially if the person is bigger than you . If you are a man, having the robber confront you, especially without a visible weapon, look if he has anything in his hands, if not well, you basically get a free Shot, a well placed fist to the throat does alot of damage.Some one did try to rob me before , and thats what i did , punched him in the throat , kicked him to the ground , and ran like freaking forest gump.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Call the police, give them a description and be thankful you weren't shanked.

punched him in the throat , kicked him to the ground , and ran like freaking forest gump.

Unlike you, the common Joe prefers to not take risks. It's just 10 quid, it's not the end of the world. He might have had a weapon or some buddies waiting around the corner.

 

[Ramzal]

So today i was robbed. Yay. In fact less than 30 mins ago i was robbed. Just made it home. In all fairness i only lost 10 pounds, I kept my very visible bike and phone, hell i wasnt even threatened with a weapon or even with threats of harm. But somehow he walked off with my 10 quid... it didnt go ANYTHING like i imagined being robbed would be like. Even everything he did (yep robbed by a single guy while on a bike, he stepped out and made me swerve off to stop me) was really odd and caught me off guard. All those casual daydreams in which you fight them off or leg it and tell a heroic tale were pretty much worth jack shit.

And it made me think. Ive seen this websites responses a few times "Id fight 40 men with krav maga and live to tell the tale as a true ninja" in regard to pretty much any scenario such as mine.

I want this guy punished, but i have no details other than "black, a bit taller than me, black jacket". The injustice makes me feel... that horrible feeling when something jarring and suddenly crap happens to you. You know the feeling.

Have you ever been robbed? And honestly. HONESTLY. In any situation like mine, without even a visible weapon, any threats and no number advantage would you fight a man slightly taller than you one on one for 10 pounds? Was what i did cowardly? I honestly dont know what to think here. Im not angry at all about the 10 pounds, more about the outrage of what happened. Im 17. I guess hes about 20-25.

EDIT: Running not really an option, on the bike i can go forward into him pretty lightly or backward slowly as hell. Or make an awkward turn. And i was not gonna leave my bike.

EDIT2: I know ill fight damn hard to protect things i love. I know it, scroll down if you really want an example. It isnt pretty. But i know that because of that, im not a coward. I wont fight for 10 quid. But ill fight to save things i know to be worthwhile. Like people. Im proud of my decision. I stand by it. I let that guy have ten quid and i walked home with bike, phone, and life all in hand. I couldnt give less of a shit about 10 quid if im honest. Im fine with what i did now the initial shock is gone. I dont care what you call a coward.

TLDR: A coward is someone who is scared, but knows to face is fear is the right thing to do, and flees anyway. Keeping 10 quid isnt important. It doesnt really matter, i know id face my fear if it was for something truly worth fighting for. Id risk my life for the people i love. But not for 10 quid. Anything else is just idiotic.

Please note NO VISIBLE WEAPON doesnt equate to NO WEAPON nor does NO MENTIONED WEAPON equate to NO WEAPON.

If you were afraid than you were afraid. It's natural. However you can't let that fear rule you. I'd suggest you take up martial arts (NOT MMA! For the love of god, that stuff is useless) so you'd learn how to defend yourself. I'm lucky enough to have been drilled in military defense, and Ying Jow Pai. That and I'm a pretty tall and broad shouldered male who looks pissed when relaxed. So, the few times that someone has tried to rob me, I've scarred them out of it simply by staying cool, calm and asking them "Do you really think it's worth it? Do you want to risk your arms for five bucks?" I take threats to myself and my property very seriously. But that's just me. Not you.

And the other time someone tried to rob me it just didn't go well for that guy. But my mistake for going to 146th and Amsterdam at 10pm in NYC. But no. You're not a coward. You were afraid and if you weren't secure about fighting in the position you were in, then you did the right thing. However, if you ever do feel that you are secure and you do know how to defend yourself, then you have the right to defend what is yours.

 

[Jake0fTrades]

I think you did the wise thing here, I think if it were me, my pride would have gotten in the way and it would have either gotten me killed or bloodied.

I'm 6'1 and slim-built, not designed for fighting. But, I can say I carry a utility knife with me everywhere I go (everywhere that's legal, mind you), so if push came to shove, I'm not entirely defenseless, but I won't bet my life on this SOB not having a gun tucked away.

 

[Giest4life]

So today i was robbed. Yay. In fact less than 30 mins ago i was robbed. Just made it home. In all fairness i only lost 10 pounds, I kept my very visible bike and phone, hell i wasnt even threatened with a weapon or even with threats of harm. But somehow he walked off with my 10 quid... it didnt go ANYTHING like i imagined being robbed would be like. Even everything he did (yep robbed by a single guy while on a bike, he stepped out and made me swerve off to stop me) was really odd and caught me off guard. All those casual daydreams in which you fight them off or leg it and tell a heroic tale were pretty much worth jack shit.

And it made me think. Ive seen this websites responses a few times "Id fight 40 men with krav maga and live to tell the tale as a true ninja" in regard to pretty much any scenario such as mine.

I want this guy punished, but i have no details other than "black, a bit taller than me, black jacket". The injustice makes me feel... that horrible feeling when something jarring and suddenly crap happens to you. You know the feeling.

Have you ever been robbed? And honestly. HONESTLY. In any situation like mine, without even a visible weapon, any threats and no number advantage would you fight a man slightly taller than you one on one for 10 pounds? Was what i did cowardly? I honestly dont know what to think here. Im not angry at all about the 10 pounds, more about the outrage of what happened. Im 17. I guess hes about 20-25.

EDIT: Running not really an option, on the bike i can go forward into him pretty lightly or backward slowly as hell. Or make an awkward turn. And i was not gonna leave my bike.

EDIT2: I know ill fight damn hard to protect things i love. I know it, scroll down if you really want an example. It isnt pretty. But i know that because of that, im not a coward. I wont fight for 10 quid. But ill fight to save things i know to be worthwhile. Like people. Im proud of my decision. I stand by it. I let that guy have ten quid and i walked home with bike, phone, and life all in hand. I couldnt give less of a shit about 10 quid if im honest. Im fine with what i did now the initial shock is gone. I dont care what you call a coward.

TLDR: A coward is someone who is scared, but knows to face is fear is the right thing to do, and flees anyway. Keeping 10 quid isnt important. It doesnt really matter, i know id face my fear if it was for something truly worth fighting for. Id risk my life for the people i love. But not for 10 quid. Anything else is just idiotic.

Please note NO VISIBLE WEAPON doesnt equate to NO WEAPON nor does NO MENTIONED WEAPON equate to NO WEAPON.

I used to work at a bank. I got robbed at gun-point....twice. I know how you feel. You know that 10 quid (I'm American; I don't really know what means) isn't worth your life. You are not a coward. Or, at least, you aren't a miser. You didn't know what that guy had or what he was capable of--had you done something, you'd have been stupid for not knowing when to act.

Don't run over the scenario too much. Don't think on what could have been; focus on what is and you are safe with your parents/lover/cat.

 

[Instinct Blues]

For 10 bucks? Hell no.

We'd say "It's not the amount, it's the principle" if you worked hard for what's in your pocket .. don't let them have a penny

Yeah thats good and all, but then when you have to pay medical bills for the beating you took protecting your money it won't seem worth it then. Especially since you're out a lot more money than you would have been if you just handed over the 10 bucks.

First of all .. UK NHS ftw .. secondly, I'll never get into the habit of just giving someone my shit because it isn't worth it. I didn't invest money into martial arts and boxing for years just so i can stick my head in a hole when the shit hits the fan and wait until it's all over.

9/10 time anyone's ever tried to jack me they failed because i know the telltale signs of when someone tries to attempt it and can act accordingly. even if it's a few of them i usually notice that most of the guys friends will get disheartened or run if you hit the first guy hard enough.

I've never been stabbed but i've had some defensive cuts from a knife and a stanley blade along the outside of my forearms, the most i've ever had to go hospital for are stitches and a scan .. bruises, sprains and minor cuts i just sleep off. but still .. bottom line is "fuck them for thinking they can rob me"

most i hate about fighting is getting your clothes damages, shit falling out of your pocket and (since this is the UK) getting arrested and charged for defending yourself

You have a different view on it and I respect your right to have that view I just think its stupid to do so. Theres a huge difference between a schoolyard bully shaking you down for your lunch money everyday and some psycho in the street who's desperate enough to hold you up for some money. I'd rather not have to make a trip to the hospital for stitches, broken bones, or any other sort of injury that might come out of fighting over money or material possessions. I'd fight to protect my family and friends, but not for however much money I have on me at the time. One because money is really insignificant in my mind I'd rather walk away $10 lighter than covered in bruises, cuts, and ripped clothes.

 

[Zaverexus]

You're exactly right, ten isn't worth fighting for. I have not been robbed before, but I know in that situation I would just hand over the money. If it were something more important almost any one of us here would fight, but its a ten, if its that important to him, let him have it.
If I were on foot and the guy had anything short of a gun though, I would probably try to run; a few years of practicing parkour leaves me reasonably confident that I could get out of that situation.

 

[twaddle]

i have had an attempted muging. 5 kids came on me when i was traveling waiting for the trolley. the leader stepped up to me and started slugging me in the face and the others joined in trying to make me fall down.Truthfully i could have beat up a couple of them but if i put the bags down to do it two of the little twits would have made off with my stuff while i slammed 2 of the others and the 3rd would have tried to take me from behind. i did the most logical thing i could do i steped into traffic to get the passerby's attention and that made a couple run off and only left 3, 2 backing away. The trolley finally came and i got the drivers attention telling her i was being mugged. the sad thing is she did nothing. she did not even call the company or the local police like she should have. oh and the fellow grabbed my phone but I actually was able to talk him into giving it back as the bus came because it was ancient. by this time it was only one guy left and he realized if it was just him with 20+ witnesses now in the street... well u get it.....

 

[Handbag1992]

I was robbed once. Six men with knives jumped me and I still fought...i got my ass kicked but I still fought, why? Because I'd rather go through life knowing I fought and failed than wondering if I could have won. Also I'd rather die than run ( and yes, I know someone is eventually going to say "your an idiot because so and so" or something to that effect, well...good for you for believing that, I believe there is a special circle of hell reserved for cowards.(there's a difference between being scared and being a coward. Being scared is when someone holds a gun to you and asks to give him your money. Being a coward is that same guy without a gun who asks you to give him all your money, prompting you to comply and run))

Pics or it didn't happen.

No, seriously. I don't believe a single word of what you just said and I put £50 on it being macho posturing.

So it's normal for people to take pictures of themselves after they were beaten?

Yes, it's very good evidence for court, so I assume that either you or the police would have documented it. On the other hand you may not have reported it, but that would be as foolish as taking on half a dozen armed men with a bad one-liner.

 

[HandsomeJack]

First and foremost: Not a coward for not taking a chance over a mere 10 pound. Having no idea what the robber knows/has is not worth 10 pound to find out.

On an amusing note, I HAVE had someone try to rob me. It was sad and hillarious. He pulled a pocket knife on me (one of those key chain sized ones, so I knew it didnt lock) and demanded my wallet and my backpack. Since it was pretty clear he threw all his cards on the table already I just put my hand on the top of the handle of the large utility blade on my hip (I was actually using that as a distraction to shift my backpack into a position where I was ready to swing it), and said "Are you really that stupid? Please go home." The kid nodded and walked away.

I wasnt about to give up my pack because of the expensive tools I needed for work...that and I have a stronger sense of justice than self presevation (which I dont recomend aquiring), I dont like criminals. The only reason I didnt call the cops on him was he was really young (14-16yrs old) and I figured a good scare would change his way of thinking. He didnt seem to know what he was doing really.

 

[Aurora Firestorm]

As someone who has trained in jiu-jitsu for years, I can tell you right now that the correct answer is to give the guy your money.

Seriously. No matter how much money you have in your pocket, it is not worth your life. You don't know if that mugger could get desperate, pull a knife you didn't see, and kill you. Even if you know how to defend yourself against melee fighting/a knife/a gun/whatever, you still really don't want to have to use that knowledge. The more we train, the more we realize that honestly, we hope we never have to use our training.

Is it a "cowardly" thing to do? No. It's a wise thing. If someone accosts you and demands your money, do your best to act as non-threatening as possible. Assume a very innocent, defensive stance. Give him the property he asks for -- money, cellphone, whatever. The time you want to defend yourself, is if he makes a further move. If he grabs you, or tries to shove you into a corner, or otherwise does anything other than take your money and leave, then you do whatever you can to free yourself.

The best way to block a blow is to not be there. If you must counter him in some way, running is your best option. If you can't run well, or otherwise are cornered, then fight with all your power, and make lots of noise to attract attention. Scream. This is not badass, or slick, but who the hell cares if it saves your life? Do what you must, and try to get passersby to notice and care. And don't stop beating on him until he can't fight back -- although fighting past that point, can also get you in trouble, at least in America. (I don't know laws so well, but it's not a good idea to kick people when they can't fight back, even if they started it.)

So no, you did the right thing. You're ten pounds out, but y'know, you have your life and health. Don't sweat it.

 

[nothingspringstomind]

I've broken a guy's nose when he pulled a knife on me but conversly i've haggled a mugger down from everything in my wallet to a fiver.

You absolutely did the right thing. If someone attacks me, i go into an analytical mode and weigh up what i can do to defend myself, how powerful my opponent seems to be, and can i get the first hit in and knock them off balance long enough for me to escape/call the police/kick their head in.

I'd say nine times out of ten i'm big enough to be a threat to their safety more than they are to mine but i would rather always pick the escape option.

 

[Drenden]

I have had a situation where I gave up money out of fear. A man grabbed my shoulder as I was getting into my car at a gas station. I nearly jumped outta my skin. He asked me for some gas money so he could go pick up his kid. Whether or not that was true the guy was about a foot taller than me and looked pretty tattered. So I handed him a couple bucks.($15 to be exact)

Ironically enough, about 40 minutes later I seen the same guy hugging a kid at a Little League baseball game. Sorta made me feel good inside. He still scared the hell out of me though.

 

[AssassinFisH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01NHcTM5IA4

Best defence is a good offense.

On another note, all these tough guy storys being posted here are making me chuckle. Spot the insecure, bullied wannabe hardmen in the forums tonight!

 

[spartan231490]

I think I would fight back. It's a principle thing, his desire to gain money that he hasn't earned doesn't entitle him to it. Also, the first strike could grant you a huge advantage, likely preventing him from drawing any weapon, and possibly giving you enough advantage to win(by that I mean escape) with only that one strike. That said, if you were straddling the bike, that makes it more difficult. Also, the further away you get, the harder it gets. I might run, but I'm better at fighting, my speed is much lower than my strength.

Yes, the exact same happened to me. I only ever carry plastic money, but my friend gave him ? 5. Afterwards I was slapping myself over the head because some 50 year old dude had got two 17-year olds off guard, while we could've taken him. He even turned his side to me and wasn't paying attention.

A few years later, just about the same happened. Some guy stopped me while cycling and asked directions, then told me he had a knife. He didn't seem like a desperado to me, so I got off my bike. When he let me do that I felt more secure. It's tough to fight or run sitting half on a bike.
I told him that if he had a knife, he could probably show it to me. When he didn't and tried to threaten me and demand money again instead, I knew he was unarmed. That's when I told him I thought that he didn't have a knife, and he would have a damn hard time fighting me unarmed. He sort of muttered a thing or two and left.


Admittedly, if I hadn't known I could back that threat up I may not have been the same back there.
But between the first and second robbery, 8 months of krav maga, 3 years of kickboxing, 7 weeks as a club bouncer and 1 year of receptionist/security guard at a (rather violent) drug addict care centre went into me.

But you know where that makes the difference? It's still mostly mental. It's not about being heroic, proud and stuff, that's nonsense.
It's about knowing you can fight at a level that you can take that guy, and that he can't truly hurt you without a weapon.

i got my ass kicked but I still fought, why? Because I'd rather go through life knowing I fought and failed than wondering if I could have won.

I'd say that's a rather lousy text to put on your grave, so I wouldn't mess with six armed attackers, only to lose and be at their mercy, but suit yourself.

If you're not a 100% positive you can win, don't fight. Just give him those few lousy pennies. If he has to rob people for that, he's worse off than you'll ever be.

Nothing is ever 100%, replace with reasonably sure and I agree.

 

[Pyro Paul]

one of my friends was robbed by a guy wielding a knife. guy just flashed the knife, didn't really threaten much, but said he was robbing him. he gave him his money no question, and went on his merry way all $12 poorer.

the same guy was robbed a second time while out with his wife and daughter. this time at gun point. The robber got agressive, ordered him around, and threatened him and his wife. he flipped the gun, broke the would be robbers hand in 14 places, disarmed, then disassembled the gun before calling the police.

He's a US Marine specially trained in Close Quarter Battle.


even if you know without a shadow of a doubt that you could win completely, fighting back isn't always the best decision. a lot of the time it simply isn't worth the risk or time to fight back... some timse simply giving up your wallet is the best course of action.

 

[RamirezDoEverything]

Better than ending up in the hospital, you just freezed up from fear, happens to plenty of people, I was conned out of 8 bucks on a speech trip in Chicago...

Some crackhead came up to us offering to do a sketch, we agreed. We knew we were going to have to give him a buck or two, but at least he was doing something instead of just begging. When he finished, he hands us this terrible drawing, and asking for 8 bucks, it wasn't a big deal(I was a little pissed), but there was 3 of us, and I wasn't worried about the price. Then he says 8 each, and I told him, "Hell no." That's crap! He stared right into my eyes, and said in a really low voice, "Do you want to do this?" I immediately froze up and forked over my cash.

I felt really stupid, and pissed, just like you did.

But like I said, It's better than being stabbed.

-snip

 

[FoolKiller]

You are 100% correct. There is no use possibly risking more, including your life, over a bit of money.

Having said that, I'm a fucking retard. I would probably fight because I fall under the fight category of the "fight or flight" instinct. Not good or well thought out but I am what I am.

 

[Xanthious]

Just remember there are far braver people on slabs in a morgue right now. Bravery is overrated anyway.