Fighting Game Thread: Post Fighting Game Material, Discuss Fav Games, And Ask For Tips here.

[K-sha]

Akane's critical heart is just as hard with a stick, or maybe only slightly easier. Fiona's is just as impossible to get the timing, I never seem to be able to get mei fang's. some other characters have 1080s, while other games just have 720. Nazuna is just weird. I'm not even going to learn to do Saki's properly.

I never learned Zenia, or know much about the matchup knowledge, since I havent played that many. AH3LM seems reasonably balanced seeing how we get different players use different characters in tournaments. I would think that if Zenia is so broken, everyone would use her in tournaments when money's on the line.

some of those critical hearts are just too brutal to attempt doing in actual matches. I pretty much just forgot about them.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Fiona is straight up a 1f link so yeah, that is hard throughout. Akane's is at least doable on stick, on pad it is pretty much impossible to mash all the buttons as fast cause they're too close together so you can't palm over them and rub your hand left and right lol. Zenia basically does too much damage off of everything while everyone else was toned down in LM, that and her unblockables make her super good. Still, experience wins over tiers every time, but it doesn't mean you can't fix stuff that is out of whack.


Kamui's is just a counter but it whiffs sometimes, when you land it though you basically win the round XD.

 

[K-sha]

I still never managed to do akane's with stick.

I'm guessing it's like GGXX where Eddie was supposedly top tier, but often didn't even show up in tournaments. since it's balanced enough that you can win with anyone. I usually don't look into tiers or know them. I just know some characters are easier to use. and nearly anyone can seem broken if you don't know how to play them.

It's hard to know if something's broken, unless you really played enough and figure out all strategies, and I'm far from a professional player. Kyamei seems to dominate every arcana and nitroplus tournament I've seen him in, and seems to switch between Akane and Elsa a lot depending on who he's playing, but I also seem him dominate with a few others characters on rare occasions. Other players tend to stick to one or 2 mains as well. It could be matchups, where certain characters he use are just better suited to countering a certain style/character.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Yeah Akane was the best in old AH3 and she is still very good, Elsa is also one of the top chars. Experience always beats tiers so if he had been using her for all this time he will be better as her. But yeah it is balanced enough to allow for superior skill to let you win which is all that matters. LM was the first game in the series where Kamui didn't suck as well so I was happy, her new normals especially helped her a lot.

 

[K-sha]

you were pretty accurate after hearing commentators in this vid. He seems like a matchup specialist, or atleast good at determining character for situations. It seems like he knows about 5 or 6 characters, and switches based on what seems to be most advantageous for the situation, and switches if he loses a game, so his opponent won't have time to adapt.

the fact that there's a player who pics random is a testament to this game's balance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbberd1xxU

the fact that the community is so small here, really makes it hard to learn matchup knowledge. unless we get someone who picks random in NA. Fiona/Lilica are supposedly low tier from a list I looked up. I find them not really hard to use, and seen vids of them doing things in tournaments as well.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

That's the benefit of the community being so small, when I was in Cali I kinda met everyone already. You know the mizuumi wiki right? Well, the guy who runs it hosted us in his house and that's where I learned a bunch so I basically know everyone in this video already. Funny thing is they were way better in AH than me but in BB I was the one on top, goes to show how different these games are and why calling em all "anime" kinda defeats the point lol.

 

[K-sha]

I don't see how it's better that it's small. smaller community does make it harder to find certain players, and also harder to find people online. BBCF's good that I can go online, and always find someone to play with, and usually find someone who plays different characters, style, skill level, etc

yeah, it's like how people say blazblue and guilty gear plays the same. when the game specific mechanics are so different, and only a few characters play somewhat similar, but it's basically just things like having being a shoto/grapler style. I often forget things like having the K button in Xrd. Roman cancels are a lot easier to string together combos because of slowdown effects. combos in BB seem to be generally longer at a different pace. XRD is a lot more inbetween the modernized airdasher and traditional grounded style imo, while BBCF is more like modernized airdashers. When I played AH3LM for a long time and moved back to BB, I felt lost for a short while without the homing button. If you switch from one game to the other it takes some getting used to.
anime games term can be kind of confusing, because then I wouldnt know what to call games like dbz, naruto, jstars, etc which has actual anime characters.

 

[K-sha]

btw, any tips on how to get some people into fighting games. I know people who are open minded, but everytime they try, they never have any willingness to get decent. I know a girl who got blazblue CS and played the story mode. I played her, bodied her for 2 rounds, tried giving her advice(dont button mash), but she just dropped the controller and said she gives up.

personally I learned that you should play to improve, when facing someone stronger, but i guess average gamers don't get that. I now know why everyone who plays ah3lm quit after 1 or 2 games with sf tactics. I would think it's better to just play when I'm there, since I can give advice eventhough it was the 1st time in years I played CS.

 

[Maximum Bert]

btw, any tips on how to get some people into fighting games. I know people who are open minded, but everytime they try, they never have any willingness to get decent. I know a girl who got blazblue CS and played the story mode. I played her, bodied her for 2 rounds, tried giving her advice(dont button mash), but she just dropped the controller and said she gives up.

personally I learned that you should play to improve, when facing someone stronger, but i guess average gamers don't get that. I now know why everyone who plays ah3lm quit after 1 or 2 games with sf tactics. I would think it's better to just play when I'm there, since I can give advice eventhough it was the 1st time in years I played CS.

From my experience you will not get people into them if they are not already interested sure they may play with you from time to time because you are their friend and they know you like them but you are not going to teach someone who is not interested or get them to continue playing something they only have a passing interest in at best without some sort of strong outside pressure which is not really a good way of going about it even if you could make them play the game out of force.

I have never been able to get any of my friends very interested in any fighters for long its usually they either play a few rounds lose and give up or play some more maybe even get a few wins and give up. For most getting good at a game is not going to be a desire they really entertain if by some miracle one of my friends ever wants to play a fighter then I will go out of my way to play it with them even if its one I really dont like.

Nowadays I am really just a casual myself both because I have hardly anytime to play games nowadays and also because I love playing fighters on the couch vs a player and not so much online and that is not really possible either with no scene around here and as I mentioned no friends interested in any fighter out or coming out.

Keep meaning to play some people on these forums actually but unfortunately its low on my list of prioritys and I have not yet been able to make it happen.

 

[klaynexas3]

So for the past couple of weeks I've been playing a lot of BBCF, and I have to ask, is playing the arcade mode a decent way to train? I know that with other players is the best method, but I only have one other person that will play with me in person, and that's rather seldom when we do play, and I constantly get bodied in online. While I have nothing against getting destroyed, it's a bit harder when I'm not so able to talk to the other person and have them tell me why I'm a baddy and what to do to get better. I know that Dreiko that you said you're always up for games, but I seem to always miss you when I'm playing. Would you all still recommend I do online matches to get better even when I can't really talk with the other person? Or would arcade be a better place to start until I've cleared it out on the main characters I want to use?

 

[Nature Guardian]

Hey I'm not sure if that's the place, but if you wanna play me at Killer Instinct, lemme know.

I main Riptor and Thunder; I'm not very good but I'm not entirely terrible.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

So for the past couple of weeks I've been playing a lot of BBCF, and I have to ask, is playing the arcade mode a decent way to train? I know that with other players is the best method, but I only have one other person that will play with me in person, and that's rather seldom when we do play, and I constantly get bodied in online. While I have nothing against getting destroyed, it's a bit harder when I'm not so able to talk to the other person and have them tell me why I'm a baddy and what to do to get better. I know that Dreiko that you said you're always up for games, but I seem to always miss you when I'm playing. Would you all still recommend I do online matches to get better even when I can't really talk with the other person? Or would arcade be a better place to start until I've cleared it out on the main characters I want to use?

Fighting the AI is useless and gives you bad habits so avoid it at all costs. Playing people is the only way to learn real things and yeah at first you will get bodied a lot. Don't be afraid to ask questions, as long as you do so politely most people will answer more than you'd expect.


We can arrange games through here or you can send me a PM, I recently got into Shadowverse so I only really play people who ask me from skype and pms stuff, I am kinda at a point where I get a lot of invitations so I don't just go online and fight randoms as much when playing other games. Also if you have skype mine is dreiko-sama so you can just add me there too, it makes giving advice and stuff easier etc. (though I do have a mic too)

 

[K-sha]

AI never reacts like humans. you can still practice combos on it. it neglects things like strategy and mind games. I mainly just play it for storyline reasons and to unlock things, and sometimes to get a feel for mechanics in new games.
if you are a complete noob to fighting games, ai might be good to get comfortable in how to control a character, without the stress of getting bodied against humans.

if you want a coach, there are people available. try dustloop. and theres a discord chat, I cannot remember the address of, but you can look up.
if you dont like text, you can see if there's someone with a mic who will train you.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

While it is true that you DO learn hitconfirming and combos when fighting the AI, what you UNLEARN by not playing in a mindgame-centric way where all you focus on is trying to analyze your foe's actions, patterns, thoughts, strengths and weaknesses etc. is so much more harmful that I can't recommend it. Now, of course for story and stuff you will play it, but that's not you trying to be good, that's just playing it to see the story, so that's fine.

I find that the mood where you're just messing around for fun and the mood where you're trying to ACTUALLY learn something and become better are very distinct so if you are just messing around it doesn't matter what you do.

If you wanna do combo and hitconfirm practice, set the training mode AI to randomly block and set up various situations and practice there. That way, your combos will improve but you will not develop the bad habits I mention. You can fix bad execution with a few hours of practice but fixing a bad mindset and fixing how you analyze the ongoings of a match if you have some type of fundamental flaw in your method of perception and analysis is much harder. Hell, just finding out you have this issue is hard since you won't know it yourself since to you what you're doing is just playing normally as best you can so you have to decipher that someone else plays differently, how they play differently, why it is better, etc. which is pretty hard.

The other way is external advice and unless a super-perceptive player plays you they won't notice it and even if they do a lot of people won't go out of their way and offer help for fear of being perceived as showoffs so avoiding having these issues form in the first place is by far the best solution. I tend to be the oppressively helpful kind so sometimes people take it the wrong way but I can't help offering advice when I see someone doing something extremely bad like not blocking on wakeup or trying to hit through invincible moves or doing punishable moves as part of blockstrings. I take the hate with a pinch of salt since I know that the hate is a big mass of salt anyways .

 

[PurplePonyArcade]

Evo is just one big tournament, it isn't different than other ones, it's just a bit bigger and has a larger focus on capcom stuff to the exclusion of other games. It has the feeling of being at a convention if you've ever been to an anime convention, but like, only for fighters. It has panels etc.

I think people who have never been there place it (and tournaments and tournament players) in a pedestal. It's kinda like when you hear someone say "he goes to tournaments" as a signifier of someone being good. Well, no, tourneys are just fun to be at due to the atmosphere and community, you aren't good by definition cause you go there, all you need to go there is spare income, you can be the worst player in the planet and still go to tourneys. Now, if someone regularly places in the top 8 or something, that, that is valuable .

"Larger focus in Capcom stuff" I'd say you are wrong but you are right in the wrong way if that makes any sense.

Allow me to explain although this seems like it would be more useful to K-sha assuming it was not already the bloody obvious to everyone new and old. That Capcom bias is sadly the community in a nutshell and something you have to get use to. Does not matter how you feel about it if its fact. The community is still something I enjoy no matter how much I wish otherwise. Maybe thats being too complacent but I am always up for change and do not let me words prevent you from making the attempt. Even if the game you love and its relatives never rise above whatever niche status you manage you should still try and its the love of the game that counts.
Also competitive is endless While I do not see a game overcoming Street Fighter right now I know it can happen, Certainly has in sales(ha!) to say the least. I realize I am giving a poor explanation right now and I apologize. Morning shifts and me have a bitter hatred for eachother.
As for Evo its the size of it that means a lot to me. CEO is great and so is FR which is the main tournament I visit. Though even liking FR and it being one of the bigger scenes I really enjoy I realized two things. For events time and size matter. Even if it means having more people crowding the arcade area it means more people to play with and even being typically introverted I find it invigorating being among my own kind and in addtion Vegas is really somewhere you should see at least once if you can. Maybe when I finally go I will come back and think it was all not worth it or maybe ill come back addicted and want to waste money again but the point is for me personally its a life goal. Maybe that is putting that is putting it on a pedestal but I more than understand the potential for an all around bad experience. Though that is my default since I am a pretty bitter and red-pilled person by default. As one said PLEASE if you have a local event do it. Especially if its one of the bigger events. Whatever the hours and miles and gas, as I have given to, it is more than worth it. To conclude my thing about Evo is that even with the Capcom bias its easy for me to find at least some people at the events I go to with my interest in fighting games no matter how niche and Evo increases that chance. In addition being the biggest show right now since Tougeki sadly went down and nothing else has come close I'd imagine their arcade area is bigger than the ones I have seen. Looks that way from the pictures. I actually found the legit arcade board and played a game I never thought I would see in my life at FR but thats just a random similar story. I love going to fighting game tournaments and that makes it very likely i'd love Evo.

 

[PurplePonyArcade]

I forgot to get back with you and its entirely my fault.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

The thing with the capcom stuff is that if you are in the anime community, you're actually pretty isolated from it so you are not second rate status. You may have like a handful of people who also play SF come and participate and that's great of course but this environment where capcom gets first class treatment is actually fully alien to anyone in an actual scene outside of capcom. Why exactly is it even necessary to submit yourself to such a thing and spend all this money when you will be treated inferior. Just go to Japan for Arc revo or Toushinsai etc. Vegas is nice but Tokyo is better by far. I frankly just refuse to cede the ground, if just being big is all that counts then fighters are all trash compared to League of Legends or CSGO anyways lol. I am the quality over quantity type of person, an event can still be amazing and get you addicted even if it is small as long as enough impactful experiences occur at it.

 

[K-sha]

While it is true that you DO learn hitconfirming and combos when fighting the AI, what you UNLEARN by not playing in a mindgame-centric way where all you focus on is trying to analyze your foe's actions, patterns, thoughts, strengths and weaknesses etc. is so much more harmful that I can't recommend it. Now, of course for story and stuff you will play it, but that's not you trying to be good, that's just playing it to see the story, so that's fine.

I find that the mood where you're just messing around for fun and the mood where you're trying to ACTUALLY learn something and become better are very distinct so if you are just messing around it doesn't matter what you do.

If you wanna do combo and hitconfirm practice, set the training mode AI to randomly block and set up various situations and practice there. That way, your combos will improve but you will not develop the bad habits I mention. You can fix bad execution with a few hours of practice but fixing a bad mindset and fixing how you analyze the ongoings of a match if you have some type of fundamental flaw in your method of perception and analysis is much harder. Hell, just finding out you have this issue is hard since you won't know it yourself since to you what you're doing is just playing normally as best you can so you have to decipher that someone else plays differently, how they play differently, why it is better, etc. which is pretty hard.

The other way is external advice and unless a super-perceptive player plays you they won't notice it and even if they do a lot of people won't go out of their way and offer help for fear of being perceived as showoffs so avoiding having these issues form in the first place is by far the best solution. I tend to be the oppressively helpful kind so sometimes people take it the wrong way but I can't help offering advice when I see someone doing something extremely bad like not blocking on wakeup or trying to hit through invincible moves or doing punishable moves as part of blockstrings. I take the hate with a pinch of salt since I know that the hate is a big mass of salt anyways .

tb fair, you can develop bad habits from fighting too much of the same players too, since humans often have habits/patterns too. for example, if you always fight rush down characters, you may have a habit of using a counter move just as an uppercut. against beginners who always think rush, you may get them every time, and maybe even win a match just by doing that. now if you play an opponent who recognizes this and baits it, the recovery time is huge. Another example maybe being good at combos and playing rush down characters. if you only play beginners who follow a same pattern, and you manage to rush, combo win a lot. you maybe in trouble against someone who knows how to counter that. and it takes awhile to change mindset/habits sometimes.
I guess that best thing to do is play a variety of people of different skill levels so this won't happen. Eventually you learn to recognize human patterns, and as either know or can figure out what to do.
playing humans is more fun regardless, even if they don't know what they are doing. at least they act realistically, and not do completely random things or follow a set pattern. even someone with little skill can probably recognize something like they are winning, times running out, it maybe good to play defensive or vice versa.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Oh yeah, I wasn't talking about specifically playing the same human, that is a thing you also shouldn't do. When you say "play people" (plural) it usually means more than just a single person since that is usually how it works when you go online. You almost never just play 1 person in your entire session so I don't worry about people taking that the wrong way and playing 2000 games vs one person lol.


As for skill levels, you stand to learn more from people better than you but you also want someone around your skill level such that you can get to test what you learned without dying too bad. It's kinda like the training in heavy clothes in DBZ, once in a while you do wanna take them off and see how light your body feels. After getting perfected a bunch by a top tier player of a char, it'll be much easier to fight all the other lesser good users of that char even if you haven't actually improved a lot since it'll be like "well at least he isn't doing all THAT stuff so I can do something here..." which is a big help funnily enough.


Finally, you need to be able to tell between when your action worked because your foe is under-informed or because it was a good thing on your part that would have worked even on the best informed and rational player. So, for example, if as in your example you have newbies running into DPs all day, you should NOT take that to mean that you should DP like that normally but just that the player you're playing is too low skilled to derive useful data from. This is one of those traps you fall in where you can begin to build false confidence so you should be just as analytical about why your stuff is working as you have to be about why your foe's stuff is working.


If you have any, any at all approach, that relies on your foe not knowing properties of moves or characters, that is a bad approach that you shouldn't do outside of very niche mixup mindgame situations. The ideal approach is one where even if you know what you're supposed to do, you still can't deal with it, such as 50-50 guesses between hits and command grabs, unDPable blockstrings, unblockable meaties, stuff like that where if you do it right they just die, that's what you wanna go for.

 

[K-sha]

i find it good to fight beginners on occasion at some games, just to know the fastest/easiest way to dispose of them. or to remember how to deal with noob strategies.

often their attacks might hit first, just because they pushed it faster, so it came out faster. or they might have weird patterns that you dont see more advanced players do, but still somewhat work at times. and often you can practice doing optimal combos at the right time, which is hard to do against better players. I find sometimes I often drop combos when playing decent players, particularily with characters I'm not too familiar with, or learning new combos with. the chances to do them are more sparse, and I pbly get a little too excited when they happen, hence the dropping. or it's one of those weird timing things, if not lag.

or it might be good to take stress off of losing over and over again, while trying to figure out what to do.

if you meet a lower skilled player willing to learn. teaching them may remind you of some things, or to learn something so you can teach them.