Final Fantasy X ruined Final Fantasy (and Square)

[Shakaar9267]

Double post sorry.

 

[Shakaar9267]

i disagree
Final Fantasy X is my personal favorite in the series because of its deep storyline.
now im going to address one of you faults with the game
one that particularly bothered me
that is that the female characters are useless and cliche
i disagree with this, now lets look at the female characters


1.Yuna

now Yuna is a particularly important character as the entire plot revolves around her

she is a deep character who has to face giving up her own life for the sake of a country
she doesn't know

all this for the sake of only momentary peace.

id say this is enough for a good character without all the development she gets throughout the story and the bizarre love triangle she falls into (Tidus-Yuna-Seymour)


2.Rikku

now Rikku is also a complex character for many reasons

she is of a race that is hated by majority of the world of Spira and one of her own party members

she is the cousin of Yuna, another complex character

she has to deal with the fact that her race wants to kidnap the summoners(Yuna) but she wants to help them, basically making her an outcast everywhere she goes except with Yuna

she also has a complex relationship with Tidus


3.LuLu

LuLu is also an interesting and complex character

she is a guardian because her dead fiancée, Chappu, was a Crusader(they fight sin) and died fighting him

Chappu is Wakka's brother making Wakka and LuLu's relationship strained and awkward

Tidus looks like Chappu, and Wakka treats him as much going as far as to give him his brothers sword, this further complicates the 3 characters relationships



i could go on but this should be enough
btw i liked Blitzball

This for the win!! Yuna is the best.

 

[Aris Khandr]

I would buy and enjoy the hell out of a stand alone Blitzball game, so long as I could unlock Rikku as a member of my team.

 

[Citrus]

FFX was great. Its story was great (anything can sound stupid if you want it to), its characters were great for the most part, and the acting (or at least the acting that didn't take place on balconies) was above average. The game would seem pretty mediocre now, but it was fantastic back when it was released.

FFXII is where it started to go downhill, in my opinion (didn't play FFXI so I can't comment on it). That's where everything started to get incredibly bland, generic, and passionless. Everything felt forced. The characters, the acting, the plot. The gameplay (specifically the combat) tried too hard to be innovative and wound up sucking. There are only two games that I've played and given up on: FFXII and FFXIII.

To each his own, but in my eyes, FFX was a classic and FFXII was the game that "ruined" Final Fantasy.

 

[ProjectTrinity]

I'll say it before and I'll say it again:

==Final Fantasy X Spoilers!==

I'm sorry if Tidus was kinda whiny. You know, with what the fact his city and close ones were completely destroyed, he was sent into an unknown place (1000 years later), had to survive alone and cold, and was treated like crap to a language he didn't understand, having to fight monsters that could have easily have eaten him, all under an hour's timeframe. I also apologize if he found out that his father was, well, the reason people are dying, that he has to deal with seeing people's souls being taken away from their bodies every so often, because of his father, and having to eventually kill his father, to whom, he loves. So I apologize if our teenager was a bit angsty.

You know, because real teens and some adults handle fantastically smaller situations SO much better.

Final Fantasy X ruined nothing. The only thing ruined here is the horrible misuse of the word "incomprehensible", used to describe the plot.

That and Final Fantasy XIII, but that's another tale.

 

[YouShouldDeleteThisAccount]

I like how many peoples counter argument/statement to what you've said has been "I liked it" not actually a presentation of why the writing/characters/dialogue has been good. Almost comparable to saying "Hey! I like that turd! Don't flush it!"


But this is usually the Final Fantasy fans' counter argument. I haven't seen a single person present any of the Final Fantasy games being legitimately strong games with an objective argument. Many of them are fine enough or enjoyable enough games. But enjoyment is more correlated to ones taste than quality of the product.


I've played a bunch of Final Fantasy games, a few were alright. But not a single one of them has been a game I'd say is particularly stand out, artistic, intelligent, or even well written. They're just not. People need to stop confusing their enjoyment of the product with a products merits.

People who understand this however, I'm fine with. If Final Fantasy 7 or 6 or whatever was your personal favourite game ever, that's fine. If they tried to argue it was the best game ever, that's different. Many of my personal favourite games are between alright and good, and I know that there are many games that are far better games, they just don't scratch the same itch for me.

Edit to remove hyperbole.

 

[Ninemanec]

Final Fantasy is a plethora of problems to begin with.

Every game has a hater. And by hater I mean a malicious, annoying, stupid, biased hater.

I fit into this because I hated Final Fantasy 13, and when I played it, I decided it was the biggest waste of my time. I told everyone it was shit, and would never understand if anyone said they liked it. Other friend wanted to borrow it because he was a FF fanboy as well and he LOVED IT. This is when I decided that no game, band, movie, or T.V. show is terrible. So what if I don't like Final Fantasy 8 or 13, so what if I hate Miley Cyrus, so what if I think Glee is stupid. There are legions of fans out there who LOVE these things.

I believe Final Fantasy X does do some things that are odd, but it is still a game I enjoyed, and that I play from time to time.

1. It was gorgeous
2. Some people like linear gameplay. I think that, even though it's linear, the areas were big enough to make the illusion that it wasn't...13 did NOT follow this formula, lol.
3. Just because the main character is angsty doesn't mean he's a bad main character. Some people liked the fact that he was like this. I know it never particularly bothered me.
4. The level system was...nothing short of FUCKING GENIUS!
5. Final Fantasy X still has my second favorite soundtrack from any game. Only second to the awesome soundtrack of Final Fantasy Tactics.

I know I made a thread about Final Fantasy 13 being terrible...but I really never EVER want to see one of these again.

Carry on, and have a nice day.

 

[RJ Dalton]

I disagree. It all went down the tubes with 7.

Agreed, but most of us didn't notice until they tried to remake it like 4 times...

More or less agreed. There were elements I liked about 7, but none of them were gameplay issues. It was my first experience with the Final Fantasy series and I liked it at the time, but in retrospect, it isn't really one of the best games they ever made. At the same time, though, FF series has always been hit or miss with me. I've liked some of the games (2, 4, 6 and even 8 to an extent), but the other games just didn't really grab my interest once I got a taste for what the games offered. Still, I think 7 really did start the downfall of the series as a whole because that's where gameplay began its slow decent to a second-class citizen after pre-rendered cinematics.
And I do agree with what this guy says about X. Fucking horrible game. I don't think I've ever met a character I wanted to play less than Tidus.

 

[pyrosaw]

I'm pretty sure the man behind the first 9 Final Fantasy's(Forgot his name, Something sakagouchi or however you pronounce it) quit before they made FFX. He started his own company and created Lost Odyessy. So there's your problem. The man behind your precious franchise left. As Extra Credits said in it's mailbag episode, Square has lost alot of it's good people over time. Also, does anyone find it ironic that the franchise is called "Final Fantasy", and yet it's one of the longest running series in gaming history.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

By the way, I'm getting some serious dejavu here. I swear this topic existed before.

In an unprecedented and truly shocking display of bravado, I'm going to give my opinion on something someone else may have given their opinion on previously.

Uh, yeah, those are all subjective observations, poorly informed ones at that. You especially lost credibility points saying that Tidus was whiny. I shouldn't have to explain why, or rather, I'm not going to get anywhere by doing so.

Say what you will about Squall, but he didn't spend the entire game pissing and moaning about how daddy didn't love him.[sub] (Yeah, I know there's more to the scene than this but it pretty much sums Tidus' character in a nutshell)[/sub]

 

[AcacianLeaves]

I like how many peoples counter argument/statement to what you've said has been "I liked it" not actually a presentation of why the writing/characters/dialogue has been good. Almost comparable to saying "Hey! I like that turd! Don't flush it!"


But this is usually the Final Fantasy fans' counter argument. I haven't seen a single person present any of the Final Fantasy games being legitimately strong games with an objective argument.

I honestly expected more Final Fantasy X fans to rationalize their opinion. The fact that so many read my post and just respond with "Shut up, you're stupid, I liked it!" is kind of telling.

Opinions are important, even if it's just among fans. Opinions influence developers. There's an entire industry built around people's opinions on video games, in case some of you didn't notice - you're on one of those business' websites right now. I don't think it's out of line to discuss opinions. I think it's a healthy discussion to have, especially given the importance of Final Fantasy in the RPG genre.

I'm not just trolling, I am genuinely curious as to the REASONING behind someone having a positive experience with this game. I KNOW that it is just an opinion, I KNOW my opinion is contrary to theirs, and I KNOW that we probably won't come to an agreement. I just want to hear that side of the story so I can at least understand their opinions.

Also it's all in good fun, it's not like I hate people that like FFX.

Now I'm gonna peruse the responses and see if I can find anyone presenting a rational argument in favor of FFX.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

1. It was gorgeous

True story. It's still gorgeous even by today's standards, and that's saying a lot.

2. Some people like linear gameplay. I think that, even though it's linear, the areas were big enough to make the illusion that it wasn't...13 did NOT follow this formula, lol.

It wasn't AS linear as FF13 that's for sure, but looking back I feel like FFX is the game that really introduced linear, guided gameplay to what was previously a very exploration-based series.

3. Just because the main character is angsty doesn't mean he's a bad main character. Some people liked the fact that he was like this. I know it never particularly bothered me.

That's actually a fair argument, and I think the root of my problem with the game and where JRPGs have gone. I want escapism in my fantasy, and Tidus did not provide me with that in a character. Although my problem wasn't just that he was 'angsty' (Squall and Cloud both were and they didn't bother me as much), it was that he was whiney, weak, and somehow arrogant at the same time. Nothing about Tidus made me think of him as a hero.

4. The level system was...nothing short of FUCKING GENIUS!

I'll give this to you, this was some groundbreaking stuff in JRPGs. It wasn't magnificent but introducing a system where you had at least some choice and could guide each individual character was a big deal. It had existed in Western RPGs for the past 30 years, but that's beside the point.

5. Final Fantasy X still has my second favorite soundtrack from any game. Only second to the awesome soundtrack of Final Fantasy Tactics.

I guess it never really struck a chord with me (hur hur no pun intended). It was good but not memorable.

I know I made a thread about Final Fantasy 13 being terrible...but I really never EVER want to see one of these again.

So uhh...why did you click it? I'm really surprised how many people popped in this thread and said something like this. If you don't want to read a thread...don't?

 

[Wolfenbarg]

Meh, I find it went downhill the moment Square fucked around with Yasumi Matsuno. >_>

Matsuno was put in charge of ONE game. Not only that, but after the engine was finalized and all of the glorious edits and troubleshooting began, work on XIII had already started. When they had brought their hype machine to bear in 2004, XIII was being developed by Kitase's team. Same team that made the games the series is best known for excluding IV.

I loved the fact that the writing, dialogue, and characterizations were much more mature in the title. At the same time I can see why the strange pacing of the game and the mechanics could alienate others. However, the work of one director had no influence on Final Fantasy XIII at all. It stood on its own two feet.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

Final Fantasy X is not just my favourite final fantasy, its my favourite game of all time. People have different tastes so dont think you've written an academic review - you just published your opinion in extensive detail. I now ask you to kindly shut the hell up =)

Edit: And the story was one of my favourite things about it, as well as the charcters. And I found Blitzball fun too! Its all down to people's tastes.

Please elaborate as to WHY it is your favorite game of all time? I know I just published my opinion, but I tried my best to justify it and explain why I feel the way that I do. Why was the story your favorite? What did you like about it? Why did you like the characters? What do you think Rikku and Lulu added to the game, other than eye candy and fan service?

You don't have to justify it to me, obviously, I'm asking because I am actually curious.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha.

The laughing scene is actually supposed to be forced and awkward-sounding. It's just as bad in Japanese.

Here's the thing about the laughing scene - it makes no goddamn sense. I don't get it. They're dealing with a life threatening situation that could reasonably be expected to end the world, and rather than coming up with something funny or clever to say that would add levity to the situation - they just DECIDE to laugh? It's like the writer just went "this is getting too serious, let's add some laughter here". Most writers would have, I don't know, added something funny and then had the characters react naturally. Literally anything would have worked. You could just have Tidus trip over his own feet walking up the stairs and given everyone a giggle fit, that would have at least seemed human.

Well, this is as much as I'll say. I like FFX, but I really do prefer FFX-2. X-2 and XI were the last two Final Fantasies I cared about enough to put some serious time into them.

You are a crazy person and belong in a crazy bin! Now I'm really curious. Why FFX-2? That's like the Plan 9 From Outer Space of JRPGs. What specifically did you like about it? (please don't say bewbs)

 

[LetalisK]

10 was actually my favorite, with 8 right behind it and X-2 right after that. I hated 12, but a good deal of that might have been the weird korean-style art putting me off and never giving it a chance.

I actually liked the lack of open world exploring. I always hated it in the other games... So much time wasted and so, so, SO many stupid random encounters. At least it always had good music.

12 sucked because it bordered on plagiarism. I know it's a completely appropriate writing method to use ideas from other sources, but not every single fucking idea, characterization, plot device, and continuum from one source and then try to pass it off as original. Maybe it changes later, I could only get half way before I stopped caring.

 

[wulfy42]

I'm sorry but FFX is one of my favorite final fantasy games and in my opinion was far better then FF7 (which isn't even in my top 5).

I loved FF3(6) and still replay it every few years. That has and probably at this point always will be my favorite FF game. The original Final Fantasy though comes in second in # of times replayed for me and second over all due to being so groundbreaking at the time. I didn't play any other game that much back then even Zelda.


FF7 was fun enough for me to finish it, get all the summons and a black Chocobo.....but I only ever replayed it all the way through one more time ever.


FFX is the final fantasy game I have replayed the third most and also is my third favorite over all (seems to pretty much work out that I replay the ones I like the most). I enjoyed blitzball to be honest and the combat system was a blast to me. The biggest problem I had with FFX was that they made FFX-2......seriously that is near the top of my list of games I totally wasted money on and a big reason I wait to buy new games now usually (along with hellgate london).

FFXii felt like an MMO to me and to this day I still have not been able to finish it.

FFXIII I was able to finish once...enjoyed...and have not yet been able to catch up enough on new games (still have an unopened Fable III to play for instance) to replay it...but I will. Just hope I have a save game after the first 6 hours or so.

FFX did many things right in my opinion. The game kept me interested all the way through. I always felt like there was something I could improve and I felt incentive to explore and upgrade equipment. I enjoyed the combat system and felt like I was actually making a difference in it and I never felt lost without any sense of what I needed to do next.

FFXII on the other hand left me feeling like I was barely needed for combat most of the time, often left me without a clear direction quest wise or had so many little side quests it was easy to get bogged down. I didn't feel like I was improving much as I played and I actually had to open up the ability to use better equipment.


FFXIII fixed many of those problems. I did feel like leveling up made a difference again. Each character felt distinct (much better then FFXII) and while the game could get a bit open (letting you do many things) it was usually pretty easy to figure out what you should be doing next.

12 was really a let down to me. X-2 was freaking garbage and meant for 12 year old girls or something. Final Fantasy meets Barby dress up.

8 and 9 were both good. I enjoyed them both and have replayed them both at least twice each (probably about 3 times all together). Never got bored halfway through for either of them. I have played both more then ff7.

FF2 btw I didn't like as much as 1 or 3(6). I did get to play FF3/4/5 eventaully as well but only played through them once and barely remember them at this point (meteor falling into the ground at the start or something.....um....yeah thats about all I remember).

FFX wasn't a bad game at all. I certainly wouldn't say thats where FF games started to go downhill.....if I even agree they have gone downhill at all (since I like FFXIII alot).

 

[Asuka Soryu]

Tidus was a better main character than Cloud, Squall, and Vaan combined.

Tidus kinda reminds me of Naruto when he was 12. ~.~ Annoying blonde needs to shut up.

 

[Kermi]

I disagree with your zero secret characters claim. Three of Yuna's Aeons are hidden and need a special quest to unlock which can be overlooked if you're not a diligent explorer.

But yeah, you're pretty much spot on I guess - FFX was the first one I played and the only one I've finished so I'll take your word for it.

 

[AcacianLeaves]

I honestly don't get why Tidus gets so much hate. He's whiny, annoying and unlikeable in the beginning because he's an emotionally immature teenager being thrown into a situation he isn't at all ready for. He grows from the experience, and by the end of the game, he's almost completely different. It's character development, folks.

He never felt different to me. Even up to the end of the game he's making demands, complaining about his Dad (since that is essentially the whole plot), moaning about being in a difficult situation, and being an all around brat. There are some hints of development there, but the writing and actor don't seem capable of showing it.

Tidus was a better main character than Cloud, Squall, and Vaan combined.

Wait, is that because you think so highly of Tidus or because you think so poorly of Cloud, Squall, and Vaan? >_>

I thought Tidus was fantastic and, while whiny, felt perfectly realistic given the circumstances (I didn't even mind the balcony scene where Tidus and Yuna did their fake laughing).

If that's true, then maybe the circumstances are part of the problem for me.

I'm sorry if Tidus was kinda whiny. You know, with what the fact his city and close ones were completely destroyed, he was sent into an unknown place (1000 years later), had to survive alone and cold, and was treated like crap to a language he didn't understand, having to fight monsters that could have easily have eaten him, all under an hour's timeframe. I also apologize if he found out that his father was, well, the reason people are dying, that he has to deal with seeing people's souls being taken away from their bodies every so often, because of his father, and having to eventually kill his father, to whom, he loves. So I apologize if our teenager was a bit angsty.

You know, because real teens and some adults handle fantastically smaller situations SO much better.

I don't think you guys are following why I didn't like Tidus. Let's review the primary characters in FF4-X

FF4 - Cecil, Dark Knight and leader of the most powerful paramilitary group in the world
FF5 - Bartz, a traveling warrior and adventurer wandering the land seeking his fortune
FF6 - Terra, a magical demigod brainwashed to be a military superweapon
FF7 - Cloud, an ex-mercenary/soldier now working for an underground terrorist organization
FF8 - Squall, a member of an elite group of soldier/spies powered by summoned monsters
FF9 - Zidane, a genetically engineered demigod turned master thief
FFX- Tidus, an underwater soccer celebrity

One of these things is not like the other...

So maybe part of the problem isn't just Tidus' character its the way that he's introduced to us and the way that his character fits into the plot that bothers me (and many others). It's the lazy "Kid in King Arthur's Court" plot device that gets him involved in the story in the first place. It may be perfectly natural for his character to be weak, whiny, arrogant, androgynous (?), and bratty - but that doesn't excuse those problems.

If him being an annoying brat didn't bother you, then that's one thing. At least we can agree that he was an annoying brat.

Also a lot of the character problems have to do with the voices. Tidus may not have appeared as whiny if his voice wasn't a high pitched whine for most of his lines. Yuna may not have seemed so apologetic and submissive if her voice wasn't so meek and mousy. Lulu might have been more than a mature seductress if her actress weren't trying to rape me with words. Its not the core of their problems, but their voices reinforce the characteristics I disliked about them.