Final Fantasy XII: The most underappreciated Final Fantasy

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SpaceMedarotterX

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AzrealMaximillion said:
I'll tell why I didn't like FF12:



Seriously the licensing system did force unwanted grinding. I had to spend too much time doing dungeons runs to be able to use a sword.

That and Basch should have been the main character. That was the original plan by the scriptwriters but they stupidly went back to the standard "effeminate FF male character". The final boss was a letdown as well. Vayne's involvement in the story was minimal at best. I really enjoyed the story of Basch and Gabranth. The rest of the story was essentially the biggest Star Wars rip off ever. At least Baltheir was a good character, even though he had Han Solo written all over him. All in all the game wasn't unappreciated. It just wasn't that good.

P.S. :Someone please tell me how to post pictures in forum posts, the pic i'm trying to post really helps my point.
Okay here's the thing, the License system is annoying but makes sense, it's not "I don't know how to use a sword" it's "I'm not allowed to use it because I live in a society under MARTIAL LAW!" okay you see all those Arcadian soldiers wandering around, remember how they have this big system of Judges? yeah thats to stop you from grabbing your most powerful weapons and murdering them all.

Now obviously you question this with the ultimate weapons but baby steps
 

NietzscheKat

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Yeah I'm not reading all that and I sure as fuck don't think FFXII is under appreciated it's a piece of shit with incredibly boring characters and a even less engaging storyline.
 

Atmos Duality

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FF12 Itemized Review

*The good bits*

+Opening scenes set tone, explains the situation, and sets up the plot. Looks brilliant and epic.
+Stellar Musical Score, one of the best since FFT
+Open-ended movement and combat that felt like an improvement on the original concept of Secret of Mana
+Expansive environments
+Fun hunts. It was addicting to try to fill out the monsters list, which in turn unlocked lore about the world.

*The Bad Stuff*

-Just about everything after the opening scenes is a bait-and-switch. Now that you've piqued the player's interest, the next obvious choice is to take all of that cool setup and completely stomp it out of the game.

-Vaan and Peneno - worthless characters that failed to serve their intended purpose and ultimately ended up side-tracking the game. However, I could have forgiven their inclusion entirely if the story went somewhere interesting.

-A plot that was meant to be built around intrigue and politics, but just ends up being boring, cliche', and completely predictable. If intrigue was the intention, then I shouldn't be able to identify the end boss within 30 minutes of the game starting. (less than 5 if we discount the intro sequences)

-The game plays like a single player MMORPG, (the creators allegedly admitted this was the intent, but I can't read Japanese so I have no idea what was said in the article that confirms this) and that means GRIND. Mother fucking BIBLICAL amounts of grind.
You want items? You want to do hunts? GRIND.
Look up "Danjuro" if you want to see the worst of this madness in action. Thank goodness it's strictly optional.

-License Board. Better known as the Sphere Grid Mk 2. No characters have individual traits or abilities (outside of some slight attack speed adjustments, which makes Vaan, Basch, and Ashe the best characters in the game) which means we're back to the same old "Tabula Rosa" that has plagued most of Final Fantasy since 7.

I cruised through much of the game just by making everyone the same, meaning that much of the game was balanced with the notion of any party being able to beat it so long as your equipment was up to snuff. This has the effect of eliminating ROLE entirely since every team ends up the same in the end.

The one thing that made me want to keep playing FF9 (besides Freya kicking ass, and having an actual fucking personality that wasn't comic relief or emo) was the skill system. Every character had a unique skill set, and every character was very useful for some part of the game. You could bludgeon your way through the game, but it also rewarding players who were observant (such as Quina being able to insta-kill all the enemies in an otherwise nasty part of the game with Level 5 Death).

I dedicate so much text to this notion because it's the primary reason I haven't bothered picking up these Final Fantasy titles (until their price falls out). It's NOT good game design, yet Squeenix insists on pursuing this model til doomsday cometh.
 

ScatterBen

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NietzscheKat said:
Yeah I'm not reading all that and I sure as fuck don't think FFXII is under appreciated it's a piece of shit with incredibly boring characters and a even less engaging storyline.
Cheers, man. I appreciate the sentiment and your knack for considering other peoples views.

Also, all of you mentioning the English translation of the Zodiac Job System, could you tell me how I can get it? I live in the UK if that makes a difference.

Edit: People who are continuing to point out the games flaws aren't getting what I meant. I know that XII is a very flawed game, however, despite all of that it was a step in the right direction for the genre in terms of its story and the gameplay. Fair enough, you may not have enjoyed it, but would you rather the story remained on a similar intellectual level to standard teen angst tripe or would you rather that they expanded on what was started and maybe they'd find something that would sit right with you?
 

XT inc

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I liked ff12, I just think by the time people got to it they were a year into next generation. Going back into a ps2 title after playing the 360 was a hard jump.

I think it is one of the most progressive games in the series, the combat was one of the best of them all combining movement with attacking, which of course could have been more polished. With the delicious side of if the "main character" dies, then you keep fighting non of this oh no lightnings dead game over bullshit.

They had side quests and a completely open game world only hindered by the dated console it was released on. could you imagine if 12 had been the foray into multiplatform next gen. It would have laid waste to whatever 13 wants to call itself.

Sure the story could have been better, but it was playable to you and everything felt nicely scaled in newer areas. You grow to feel these things gaming. In 13 you know that by no shear coincidence the number of enemies you run into before the boss fight will make you the correct level.

As an owner of monster hunter tri Sad thing is I enjoy ff12s hunts allot more, even if the neho rem combo is seriously overpowered battles can still end up being challenging and the sense of scale is just terrific.

Now had the main character not been a whiny skinny boy the game would have been just stellar. Just a downhill spiral of increasingly more feminine male leads since 9 thought lightning was a woman, you never know.
 

Nanaki316

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I actually enjoyed XII. Admittedly I play all the FF's because I'm a total fangirl but I'm also the first to find the faults in them.
I can see why a lot of people didn't like it. It was quite a big change, I didn't welcome all the changes.
The thing that bothered me most about the game was Vaan though? Balthier, man I played the game for him and even fell in love with almost all the other characters accept Vaan. I know there was no real "Main" character in XII but he was just so unlikeable.

As someone said above I think Reks probably would have told a better story and yes it was a bit too easy : \
 

Chase Yojimbo

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I'm sorry, but i have already built my own opinion on the matter, and i do not see 'FF12' as a 'giant leap for JRPGS. Final Fantasy was fantastic before 12 *Well, except 10-2, but that doesn't count*, and frankly i found that the game was useless. The story was poorly written in my opinion, as was the characters. The only Characters i admired was the Sky Pirate *I forgot his name, its been a while*. Though i understand how you wish to defend the series, if it wasn't for Final Fantasy theres a good change JRPG's would never have been born, thus keeping the later titles away from us, like Tales of Vesperia, which was very well written, and was filled with humor. But what i can't understand is how you can defend Final Fantasy 12?! Whats wrong with you! Don't you know what that game has done to Final Fantasy! It had destroyed the franchise i loved, and when FF13 came out, i was hoping they fixxed the mistake, but they didn't! My only hope now is to wait for FFVersus13 to come out and hope to the gods of gaming and porn that they get rid of the mistakes they made once and for all!

This message was brought to you by someone with good taste in story and gameplay *niether of which existed in FF12 or FF13*
 

Charli

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No that goes to 9.

12...Sorry I just could NOT relate to any of the characters. At all. I tried.
It was not something I resonated with and that was sad.

Which is even more sad if SE's 'realistic' character designs is somthing that could be accomplished by the cutsey more anime-ish style of FFIX, proving to me that the story was just not enjoyable, nor the character personalities relatable.
 

ScatterBen

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NietzscheKat said:
Look Dipfuck, reading an overlong review of a piece of shit game isnt going to change how shitty the game is now is it ? ? Thanks and enjoy your day you egotistical bastard
Again, thankyou for that. I never asked you to read the review. In fact, I never personally asked you to enter this thread - something you did entirely of your own choosing so that you could bash a game that, apparently, everyone else can talk about rationally.

How am I being egotistical? I wrote the review, posted it up here, the thread got quite popular - something I, honestly, didn't see happening - and that apparently makes me self-obsessed? OK sure, if agreeing with you will make you shut up. Now please leave my thread.
 

Da_Schwartz

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Ok OP, let me start out how i completely understand where you're coming from. I myself die hard FF fan. This installment however just sat soo flat with me. I tired, i swear it tried so hard to like it. gave it chance after chance after chance. It never grabbed me, no matter how deep i looked into it, it always felt off, i gave the battle system a fair chance...i didn't connect to any of it, the world design, the story, the characters, I simply did not care.
 

SpaceMedarotterX

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Okay off the top of my head here are the problems with FFXII

~The Plot has the pacing of a schizophrenic whore
~Executive Meddeling to the Nth Degree
~~Corollary: It had two Directors at once
~~Corollary: After having replaced the ORIGINAL DIRECTOR
~It's not sure exactly whos story it wants to tell, over half the game is dedicated to Ashe and Balthier and the other half is dedicated to Vaan (Kinda) and Basch
~6 Characters, 3 of which who were severly under developed
~Final Fantasy has ALWAYS had a Star Wars feel... but this just took the cake. One COULD argue that it has a 'Hidden Fortress' (the Japanese movie Starwars was based on) Feel but really it doesn't matter
~GABRANTH!!! Okay so we have this dude on the front cover, and he's supposed to be our Darth Vader Figure, and we kick his ass so much we can't take him seriously.
~Speaking of which "Evil Twin Brother" STUPIDEST PLOT TWIST EVER!
~The Outfits, Ashe's 'Mini Skirt' is ridiculous, Frans armor is annoying, Basch looks silly, Vaan needs the god damn shirt he got given in Tactics Advanced 2, Penelo looked the most normal along with Balthier and the clothes were still stupid.
~Your quest is a lot of faffing about doing nothing. Okay so Cid and Vayne are the big bads, we never really investigate either of them. The Occuria are the big bads, but we hardly care about them. Ondore is the leader of the resistance and we don't care about him.
~This is Ivalice's Golden Age of Magic, and you fuck up the simple premise of "GIVE THE CHARACTER A PLAYABLE BANGAA!"

Dear god... And yet this is STILL my second or third favorite main line game depending on which way the wind is blowing (Either VI, IX and XII, or VI, XII and IX, Depending on how much Job System I want)

But the game has potential, in face the game has so much potential in my mind it could have been the next trend setter. I'll get to that later, it's 5 AM and I'm sick.
 

Veylon

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It wasn't too bad, though they seemed to pick the wrong character as the protagonist (similar to FFX); all I remember of Vaan was that he seemed to have a terrible fear of being either kneecapped or having his shins kicked. I mean, that's some serious leg armor.
 

SpaceMedarotterX

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FFXII's Themes. A.K.A. Why I say it had so much potential even if I don't believe the story capitalized on it.

Man vs God: this ones a real simple one, the over all driving motivation for the villains is the desire to be free of the constraints of the Occuria, a bunch of holier than thou gods who consider themselves 'Histories Recorders' because they've been around the longest. Now you immediately go "Well then Cid and Vayne are in the right" but consider for a second. Nobody was aware of the Occuria and Vaan and Ashe being able to make there own choices proved that while the Occuria guided the people of Ivalice they didn't control them with an iron fist. Cid and Vayne want history to be back in the hands of man, specifically there hands. Or should I say Cid's hands? Cid always came across as the bigger bad guy to me.

You could have gotten a real good story out of that, about how the Occuria and Archadians were both evil bastards and in the end choosing your own way through life is the best for all. The path of neutrality. It's kinda what happened but it's so schizophrenic you are loft to pick up on it.

Whether the Past is as important as the future: Balthier was a former Judge who left Archadia in disgust, Basch failed a former kingdom and it was his fault the king was murdered, Vaan has a brother who died and all he can think of is vengeance, and Ashe lost her husband and kingdom which has driven her to be cold and alone. Of the 6 party members 4 of them are either running or letting there lives be dictated by memories of the past. The occuria go out of there way to attempt to control Vaan and Ashe by using there past memories, and Gabranth on the side of evil can't see how Basch holds his honour knowing all of his failures. In the end the decisions to move on beyond what defined them in the past allows the party to be successful.

Again this is one that's there but could have had so much more done with Vaan brings up once how he doesn't know whats left in life for him since he lost his desire for revenge, and it's never elaborate why the Occuria were trying to spur him forward (instead of anyone else) along with Ashe.

Breaking down the former we get The Cycle of Revenge and Free Will vs Fate. The game actually does have a lot of elements that could have made it the next evolution, it didn't capitalize on it
 

Flamezdudes

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I'm sorry but i just really do not like FFXII at all. I couldn't get into the gameplay, the characters were annoying and that license crap was annoying.

Now, Final Fantasy XIII is the most underappreciated.
 

SpaceMedarotterX

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Flamezdudes said:
I'm sorry but i just really do not like FFXII at all. I couldn't get into the gameplay, the characters were annoying and that license crap was annoying.

Now, Final Fantasy XIII is the most underappreciated.
No. You actually have to be good to be under appreciated, for a long time that was IX until everyone grew the fuck up and stopped judging the art style
 

AzrealMaximillion

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SpaceMedarotterX said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
I'll tell why I didn't like FF12:



Seriously the licensing system did force unwanted grinding. I had to spend too much time doing dungeons runs to be able to use a sword.

That and Basch should have been the main character. That was the original plan by the scriptwriters but they stupidly went back to the standard "effeminate FF male character". The final boss was a letdown as well. Vayne's involvement in the story was minimal at best. I really enjoyed the story of Basch and Gabranth. The rest of the story was essentially the biggest Star Wars rip off ever. At least Baltheir was a good character, even though he had Han Solo written all over him. All in all the game wasn't unappreciated. It just wasn't that good.

P.S. :Someone please tell me how to post pictures in forum posts, the pic i'm trying to post really helps my point.
Okay here's the thing, the License system is annoying but makes sense, it's not "I don't know how to use a sword" it's "I'm not allowed to use it because I live in a society under MARTIAL LAW!" okay you see all those Arcadian soldiers wandering around, remember how they have this big system of Judges? yeah thats to stop you from grabbing your most powerful weapons and murdering them all.

Now obviously you question this with the ultimate weapons but baby steps
That makes sense to an extent. But why even let the citizens have weapons if they can just go out and grind until they are able to purchase the weapons? It doesn't make sense to even let the citizens go around with a sword? If your arguement made any sense how come Baltheir and Fran, two wanted sky pirates, are able to sign their names on a peice of paper saying, "I own these POISONOUS BULLETS" with no one saying, "WTF mate?". That and as my picture above states, you should not need a licsene to put on a damn hat.
 

SpaceMedarotterX

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Jun 24, 2010
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AzrealMaximillion said:
SpaceMedarotterX said:
AzrealMaximillion said:
I'll tell why I didn't like FF12:



Seriously the licensing system did force unwanted grinding. I had to spend too much time doing dungeons runs to be able to use a sword.

That and Basch should have been the main character. That was the original plan by the scriptwriters but they stupidly went back to the standard "effeminate FF male character". The final boss was a letdown as well. Vayne's involvement in the story was minimal at best. I really enjoyed the story of Basch and Gabranth. The rest of the story was essentially the biggest Star Wars rip off ever. At least Baltheir was a good character, even though he had Han Solo written all over him. All in all the game wasn't unappreciated. It just wasn't that good.

P.S. :Someone please tell me how to post pictures in forum posts, the pic i'm trying to post really helps my point.
Okay here's the thing, the License system is annoying but makes sense, it's not "I don't know how to use a sword" it's "I'm not allowed to use it because I live in a society under MARTIAL LAW!" okay you see all those Arcadian soldiers wandering around, remember how they have this big system of Judges? yeah thats to stop you from grabbing your most powerful weapons and murdering them all.

Now obviously you question this with the ultimate weapons but baby steps
That makes sense to an extent. But why even let the citizens have weapons if they can just go out and grind until they are able to purchase the weapons? It doesn't make sense to even let the citizens go around with a sword? If your arguement made any sense how come Baltheir and Fran, two wanted sky pirates, are able to sign their names on a peice of paper saying, "I own these POISONOUS BULLETS" with no one saying, "WTF mate?". That and as my picture above states, you should not need a licsene to put on a damn hat.
I always thought that they let people have a semblance of control in there lives (so they don't fight the License system) and anyone who gets too powerful is quietly taken out back and shot.

And I'm pretty sure the License board doesn't actually have you sign your name, if anything they probably both own one under a fake name. and as for why they would use it, is it better to be wanted and able to still move around town, or have every guard in the city looking to stab your shit.

Yes I know from a Gameplay POV Vayne could send his entire army at you and still probably lose like a *****. But it DOES work... very loosely! but it works