Finn Jones cast as Iron Fist, people inexplicably take offence to his race

[Gorrath]

The fact of the matter is, if something is suddenly acceptable because they're not "Insert race here", then it's racism.

Well, no. That was part of my point; racism isn't so simple. It's a relativistic thing that depends a lot of context. That's why you can't simply apply the same reasoning to other situations, racism doesn't work that way.

As for the trope itself, Iron Fist definitely fits. For that to happen he doesn't have to literally be the only guy who can save insert-fake-Asian-country-here using their own cultural expressions. What does happen however, is a white guy discovering ancient kung fu magic, being 'the best evah' at the monastery he trains at and then become a superhero with those skills, surpassing all the actual Asian students on pretty much every level. That's what makes it iffy.

Now, I like to believe that there's more options than the ones you listed. They could turn the character topsy-turvy and do something interesting with it. Considering Marvel's recent track record I think it's plausible they go that way. But I can totally understand why minority folks would've liked to see this character become actually Asian.

What you describe isn't the white savior trope though. What you describe is the mighty whitey trope. The distinct difference being that in the white savior trope, the white guy is portrayed as being the only or primary means of solving the "foreign" group's problems. Now a lot of times white savior and mighty whitey are used together but Iron Fist does not seem to be this. I don't merely bring this up to quibble either, since the Mighty Whitey trope can be used in many more contexts than White Savior without being as derogatory to the "foreign" people involved in the story. So long as the story isn't suggesting that Iron Fist is "the best ever" because his whiteness makes him the best ever then there likely isn't a damaging context at play. People can and will still be offended of course but some people's offense should not automatically be equated with a story actually being damaging.

All of that said I don't think making the character a person of Asian descent would be a big deal. I think every important aspect of the character, his story and his relationship with his fellow heroes would work perfectly fine. This does all rather seem like tempests in teacups.

 

[happyninja42]

But there is also the fact that interesting and good things have been done with his race and his cross race perspective since the characters inception. His relationship with Luke Cage holds special significance because of his race, for example. This is a character who has learned through personal experience that race simply does not matter. Do we want to lose that?

But then we have another factor, which is, for me, the overriding concern here. Danny is not actually an outsider to the community. His father was adopted into the community and so was he. By complaining about his race we draw rigid social and cultural lines purely on skin color. Danny's father was raised in an Asian community, Danny was raised in an Asian community. For all practical intents and purposes Danny is Asian except for his skin color. The question: Is it reasonable to claim that a person raised in a culture has no right of claim on that culture simply because of the color of their skin? I don't think that is fair. There are real people who cross racial and cultural lines in this way, I don't think it is fair that we erase any claim they have to the culture in which they were raised.

It is a complex and muddied issue, one that has no clear answer. I have my conclusion, but I don't pretend that it is the only reasonable one.

That sums up my thoughts on the issue pretty well actually. I'm sure people like Idris Elba would take issue if you tried to tell them they weren't actually British, because of their skin tone. Or any number of people from the United States of an insane mixture of ethnicities possible due to population, and say they aren't "Murican enough". I know people actually say this shit, but they are of course, fucking idiots, and a prime example of why this type of thinking, from either side of the coin, is stupid.

 

[Callate]

I don't know if Marvel could win with this one; if Iron Fist was cast with an actor of Asian heritage, it would also be viewed a sterotype. Or the writing would have to work so hard at every turn not to be a stereotypical Asian kung-fu master that such "anti-writing" it would likely become a defining (and shallow) characteristic.

One can make an argument that the underlying character belongs to a different era and should stay there, but that tends to trip my strongly held "Offending someone, alone, is not sufficient reason for something to cease to exist" code. I'd just as soon wait until the show actually comes to fruition before I made any big assumptions about how it's going to pan out.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

But there is also the fact that interesting and good things have been done with his race and his cross race perspective since the characters inception. His relationship with Luke Cage holds special significance because of his race, for example. This is a character who has learned through personal experience that race simply does not matter. Do we want to lose that?

But then we have another factor, which is, for me, the overriding concern here. Danny is not actually an outsider to the community. His father was adopted into the community and so was he. By complaining about his race we draw rigid social and cultural lines purely on skin color. Danny's father was raised in an Asian community, Danny was raised in an Asian community. For all practical intents and purposes Danny is Asian except for his skin color. The question: Is it reasonable to claim that a person raised in a culture has no right of claim on that culture simply because of the color of their skin? I don't think that is fair. There are real people who cross racial and cultural lines in this way, I don't think it is fair that we erase any claim they have to the culture in which they were raised.

It is a complex and muddied issue, one that has no clear answer. I have my conclusion, but I don't pretend that it is the only reasonable one.

That sums up my thoughts on the issue pretty well actually. I'm sure people like Idris Elba would take issue if you tried to tell them they weren't actually British, because of their skin tone. Or any number of people from the United States of an insane mixture of ethnicities possible due to population, and say they aren't "Murican enough". I know people actually say this shit, but they are of course, fucking idiots, and a prime example of why this type of thinking, from either side of the coin, is stupid.

Exactly. I do think this is an important and useful conversation to have, but I have no problem with the casting as it stands.

... Except I was kinda hoping for someone a bit... hotter. I mean, they cast the worlds most beautiful people as Jessica Jones and Luke Cage, I was kind of hoping that we would end up with a hot guy on the thinner side to provide a contrast to Mike Colter's beef cake.

I don't know, maybe Finn just isn't my type.

...
...
Don't judge me!

 

[Wuvlycuddles]

Now that's a fair discussion point in my opinion. We can debate the quality of the actor's abilities all day, and that's fine. I personally think he's pretty good. I enjoyed his performances in GoT well enough, and I'm more familiar with his career than the 2 they got to captain Daredevil and JJ. But both of those actors did just fine in my opinion, so as long as he's got good direction, and a good writing team, I'm comfortable with him being able to bring a good performance to the role. Of course, your mileage may vary.

He is barely in GoT and when he is he doesn't do much, I think he had like one good speech back in season 1 but that's it. The rest of his career is shitty British soaps, that doesn't exactly speak to the actors quality. I was more confident with Daredevil and JJ, seen the actors before and was suitably impressed, Luke Cage was a total unknown to me but did well.

 

[SirSullymore]

Well.....at least hes not named Chris? Im honestly just confused why white people whine when people want nonwhite characters. Like...oh no...now the marvel movies will only have 98% white people instead of 99%. Oh the humanity.

I would argue it's less "white people whining when people want nonwhite characters" and more a counter whine at people who whine when a white character is not changed for diversity. The oddest example of this phenomenon that I have encountered was when group of people decided that Dr. Strange should not be white in the movies and when Cumberbatch was cast they raised a ruckus.

 

[Ryotknife]

But there is also the fact that interesting and good things have been done with his race and his cross race perspective since the characters inception. His relationship with Luke Cage holds special significance because of his race, for example. This is a character who has learned through personal experience that race simply does not matter. Do we want to lose that?

But then we have another factor, which is, for me, the overriding concern here. Danny is not actually an outsider to the community. His father was adopted into the community and so was he. By complaining about his race we draw rigid social and cultural lines purely on skin color. Danny's father was raised in an Asian community, Danny was raised in an Asian community. For all practical intents and purposes Danny is Asian except for his skin color. The question: Is it reasonable to claim that a person raised in a culture has no right of claim on that culture simply because of the color of their skin? I don't think that is fair. There are real people who cross racial and cultural lines in this way, I don't think it is fair that we erase any claim they have to the culture in which they were raised.

It is a complex and muddied issue, one that has no clear answer. I have my conclusion, but I don't pretend that it is the only reasonable one.

That sums up my thoughts on the issue pretty well actually. I'm sure people like Idris Elba would take issue if you tried to tell them they weren't actually British, because of their skin tone. Or any number of people from the United States of an insane mixture of ethnicities possible due to population, and say they aren't "Murican enough". I know people actually say this shit, but they are of course, fucking idiots, and a prime example of why this type of thinking, from either side of the coin, is stupid.

Well, American is a nationality, not an ethnicity or race. Same applies to British I suppose. People might get miffed if Idris described himself as English.

we had a similiar issue last year when a white person tried to pass themselves off as black. There is nothing wrong with immersing yourself into another culture and taking their values as your own (and in fact i think its encouraging that people will not limit themselves to what they are born as but choose their own identity), but you will never be considered part of that group.

For example, I knew someone who was adopted by Italian parents. She herself came from Asian descent, and though she was raised her whole life in Italian culture and even spoke Italian, she was always considered Korean. Now, if she was white she might be considered Italian (it is kinda difficult to differentiate the various European ethnicity from a glance, usually it is your last name that gives it away).

Im not a huge fan of placing importance on bloodlines and things you are born as, but in regards to how people are identified in regards to ethnicity and race (and nationality), it is not based upon merit. The only identity that is based on "merit" is religion and political orientation.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

But there is also the fact that interesting and good things have been done with his race and his cross race perspective since the characters inception. His relationship with Luke Cage holds special significance because of his race, for example. This is a character who has learned through personal experience that race simply does not matter. Do we want to lose that?

But then we have another factor, which is, for me, the overriding concern here. Danny is not actually an outsider to the community. His father was adopted into the community and so was he. By complaining about his race we draw rigid social and cultural lines purely on skin color. Danny's father was raised in an Asian community, Danny was raised in an Asian community. For all practical intents and purposes Danny is Asian except for his skin color. The question: Is it reasonable to claim that a person raised in a culture has no right of claim on that culture simply because of the color of their skin? I don't think that is fair. There are real people who cross racial and cultural lines in this way, I don't think it is fair that we erase any claim they have to the culture in which they were raised.

It is a complex and muddied issue, one that has no clear answer. I have my conclusion, but I don't pretend that it is the only reasonable one.

That sums up my thoughts on the issue pretty well actually. I'm sure people like Idris Elba would take issue if you tried to tell them they weren't actually British, because of their skin tone. Or any number of people from the United States of an insane mixture of ethnicities possible due to population, and say they aren't "Murican enough". I know people actually say this shit, but they are of course, fucking idiots, and a prime example of why this type of thinking, from either side of the coin, is stupid.

Well, American is a nationality, not an ethnicity or race. Same applies to British I suppose. People might get miffed if Idris described himself as English.

we had a similiar issue last year when a white person tried to pass themselves off as black. There is nothing wrong with immersing yourself into another culture and taking their values as your own (and in fact i think its encouraging that people will not limit themselves to what they are born as but choose their own identity), but you will never be considered part of that group.

For example, I knew someone who was adopted by Italian parents. She herself came from Asian descent, and though she was raised her whole life in Italian culture and even spoke Italian, she was always considered Korean. Now, if she was white she might be considered Italian (it is kinda difficult to differentiate the various European ethnicity from a glance, usually it is your last name that gives it away).

Im not a huge fan of placing importance on bloodlines and things you are born as, but in regards to how people are identified in regards to ethnicity and race (and nationality), it is not based upon merit. The only identity that is based on "merit" is religion and political orientation.

But kung-fu is not a racial trait, it is cultural. I would not say Danny is Asian in race, but he is Asian in culture. This is why I specifically made it about claims on culture, not on race. "American" is about culture. Black is not. The problem is that often we use the same words to describe different things. Korean, for example, can mean both racial or cultural things in different contexts.

 

[SirSullymore]

Well.....at least hes not named Chris? Im honestly just confused why white people whine when people want nonwhite characters. Like...oh no...now the marvel movies will only have 98% white people instead of 99%. Oh the humanity.

I would argue it's less "white people whining when people want nonwhite characters" and more a counter whine at people who whine when a white character is not changed for diversity. The oddest example of this phenomenon that I have encountered was when group of people decided that Dr. Strange should not be white in the movies and when Cumberbatch was cast they raised a ruckus.

its the same situation though. Why CANT Strange be nonwhite? Hes another case of the 'white guy travels somewhere exotic and beats the locals at their own games' story, why cant he be something else? Its not 'odd' its a legit question. The MCU has shown us that movies dont need to be a 1:1 comparison to the comics. And weve seen theyre willing to task risks with the casting of rather unknown talent, that always works out for the better. So yeah, the casting of bumblebim cucumbersnatch, the whitest safest actor outside of a literal cardboard cutout of a piece of white bread is a frustrating and wasted casting choice for an intersting character.

There's absolutely no reason why he can't, in fact Oded Fehr was my pick, I just think it is odd cry racism at an adaption sticking to the source material in this fashion. You can be disappointed, but I think attributing malice to a white character NOT being racebent is a little over the top.

You're free to hate Cumberbatch (as it is the cool thing to do) but I would argue that generally the writers and directors do more to shape a movie then the actors and that one should wait to see a movie before judging it (that old chestnut).

 

[Gorrath]

The question of culture and race going hand-in-hand is one of great personal interest to me. I spent part of my youth as a white kid in a predominantly black neighborhood. Naturally, I adopted and adapted to the dominant culture of the area. But, being white, I was and still am often told that my use of certain slang and modes of dress is and was racist. What was I, a white kid, doing "appropriating" black culture? To hear it told by many, black culture is for and of black people. I always felt that this went hand-in-hand with the racism I experienced. I am and was often told that I, as a white kid, could not be the victim of racism, which I find patently absurd for the same reasons I find the idea that culture belongs to any race of people absurd. Culture belongs to the world and everyone in it.

But kung-fu is not a racial trait, it is cultural. I would not say Danny is Asian in race, but he is Asian in culture. This is why I specifically made it about claims on culture, not on race. "American" is about culture. Black is not. The problem is that often we use the same words to describe different things. Korean, for example, can mean both racial or cultural things in different contexts.

I agree with basically everything you said here, though I will contend as well that in America there is "black culture," so everything you rightly say about race and culture applies there as well. Hence what I post above about my own experiences. I still closely identify with black culture in a lot of ways and it sometimes gets me into trouble if I make the wrong comment around the wrong crowd or person.

 

[Simonism451]

Sure, Jackie Chan movies are fun, but would you say they are "good" movies? Jackie can fight, and stunt his ass out of anything, but he isn't a great actor. I'm sorry, he's not. And if you are just wanting an "ok show, with some cool action in it", then sure, go find some crappy actor with a chiseled jawline, and smoldering eyes, that can't act for shit, but who cares, because he's hot, and looks good sweaty and shirtless, and let him martial arts his way into a mediocre show, with mediocre quality. Me personally, I want more than that. To me, fight scenes are set pieces. Like the Hallway Scene in Daredevil. It is an awesome bit of choreography, but it doesn't have as much weight to it, if we hadn't had an entire episode of the acting from Daredevil, where we learn what he cares about in life, and what he is willing to fight for, and why. If we didn't feel the amount of pain, and anguish, and exhaustion he was feeling, leading up to that climactic fight, and if the actor couldn't sell the emotional intensity of it the scene would've been far less amazing than it was. And thatrequires a good actor, who is good at acting, not fighting.

Yes, I would say Jackie Chan movies are "good" movies, just like I would say that Kadinsky made "good" paintings, even though both are maybe not that great at doing certain things that other movies or paintings are good at, namely acting (although I would argue that Chan is actually pretty good at selling the emotions his characters are feeling at almost every moment. Granted, they are usually not very complex or "deep" emotions, but his delivery is usually pretty effective (and not to mention takes a great lot of skill when he's acting with his full body instead of mostly his face) or, in the case of a Kadinsky painting depicting a recognisable object or scenery, yet, I'd say both excel at utilising the methods of their medium in other ways to evoke emotions (in specific parts of the audience at least. Sometimes things aren't just your cup of tea) that are just as valid as those evoked by pieces of another style.
The exhilarating thrill of precise movement (they're called "movies" for a reason" in an action scene or the evocative use of abstract shapes and colours on a canvas, to me, affect me just as much as Charlie Cox whinging about catholicism for 40 minutes or the careful composition of a Jacques Louis David painting.

Since I have no frame of reference regarding the painters you've mentioned, I'll just take your word on that.

I never said Jackie Chan was a bad actor, I said he wasn't a great actor. To clarify, the set of skills that man has focused his life towards, has been his martial arts work. It's very apparent, given the skill with which his fight scenes go. But his acting is not his greatest trait. Sure he's good, he's been doing movies for decades, so just by simple experience and repetition, he's likely improved, but I still wouldn't say he's an actor first, and a martial artist second. He's had some great roles, don't get me wrong. I fucking loved him in the remake of The Karate Kid. He really sold that role of the broken man, but I think, part of that was that his character was basically a variation on himself. An old martial arts expert. It's not like he had to stretch out of his comfort zone too much to play that character. xD But for the most part, he does ok roles in ok movies, that never really get touted as huge icons of acting brilliance. And that's fine, they don't have to be.

But given what the Netflix Marvel franchise seems to be pushing for. "Serious, Dramatic, Heroic characters", and not just "lots of flashy bang and pow", then I still stand by the emphasis on finding a good actorfirst, and martial artist second. If they can find a person who can do both, great! But I think we can all agree that finding someone who is both a high quality actor, capable of captaining their own show, and also be as equally good at martial arts, is very rare. In fact, the only person I can think of that comes close, is Adrian Paul, from the Highlander series. And as much as I love that show, he wasn't a great actor. He was better than most, and got better over time as he settled into the character, but he wasn't great.

Now I don't know if Finn will be "great" either, but I do think that given his profession is acting, that he will be more likely to sell me on the emotional struggle, and mental hurdles the character has to deal with, which is honestly what will keep me watching. If you can't make me empathize, and root for your hero, because I feel his/her struggles, and want to see him/her overcome them, then I'm not going to watch your show, no matter how much flashy martial arts you have, or scantily clad babes.

I would argue that Jackie Chan has focused his life towards being a great martial arts and action comedy star, with all that entails.
That he probably wouldn't make a great Henry V might be true (although I'd certainly watch it if he gave it a shot), but that's not really something I care about when I watch Police Story, the same way I don't care (too much) about Bruce Willis having been known as a leading man for romantic comedies when I watch Die Hard or how Dolph Lundgren, when not acting, is really, really, really good at chemical engineering when I watch him beat the shit out of a punching bag in Rocky IV. At the end of the day, while I can appreciate acting brilliance, I much more appreciate filmmaking brilliance and there's much more than capital-a Acting to that and knowing what kind of movie you're making and what that particular movie (or TV series) needs is one of them.

Kenneth Branagh might be brilliant in this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-yZNMWFqvM

But I doubt he'd be able to pull off saying "You are all garbage" with the same sincerity as Jackie Chan here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oucfhHcvNQE
He certainly wouldn't pull off that sleeveless turtle neck that well, not to mention what follows after that (which is both flashy and very much character-driven).

All that said, I agree that, with the focus on grim and angsty the recent Marvel series have gone with, Iron Fist should probably mostly be good at looking convincingly sad and/or angry in a given scene than be able to actually throw good punches. I myself wouldn't mind if they went for a different tone, but hey, what do I know?

Assorted PSs:

1: While people generally don't tout Jackie Chan as a huge icon of acting brilliance, they certainly do with Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin, both of which played similarily to a certain type. Maybe there's hope yet.

2: If I cared about what people are touting as huge icons of acting brilliance, I'd bother to watch the Oscars. I probably wouldn't be watching shows about people in masks beating up criminals, or if I did, I'd make sure to write insecure thinkpieces about how comic book movies aren't just for kids anymore and that the New Yorker immediately needs to acknowledge that to validate my existence.

3: Why Jackie Chan movies are great filmmaking (by someone who can actually explain it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PCtIaM_GQ

 

[P. K. Qu'est Que Ce]

Well.....at least hes not named Chris? Im honestly just confused why white people whine when people want nonwhite characters. Like...oh no...now the marvel movies will only have 98% white people instead of 99%. Oh the humanity.

I would argue it's less "white people whining when people want nonwhite characters" and more a counter whine at people who whine when a white character is not changed for diversity. The oddest example of this phenomenon that I have encountered was when group of people decided that Dr. Strange should not be white in the movies and when Cumberbatch was cast they raised a ruckus.

its the same situation though. Why CANT Strange be nonwhite? Hes another case of the 'white guy travels somewhere exotic and beats the locals at their own games' story, why cant he be something else? Its not 'odd' its a legit question. The MCU has shown us that movies dont need to be a 1:1 comparison to the comics. And weve seen theyre willing to task risks with the casting of rather unknown talent, that always works out for the better. So yeah, the casting of bumblebim cucumbersnatch, the whitest safest actor outside of a literal cardboard cutout of a piece of white bread is a frustrating and wasted casting choice for an intersting character.

I think you just crossed the line from making a comment, to actually judging a talented actor because he's too white for your tastes. Racism is ugly however you choose to dress it up.

 

[happyninja42]

But there is also the fact that interesting and good things have been done with his race and his cross race perspective since the characters inception. His relationship with Luke Cage holds special significance because of his race, for example. This is a character who has learned through personal experience that race simply does not matter. Do we want to lose that?

But then we have another factor, which is, for me, the overriding concern here. Danny is not actually an outsider to the community. His father was adopted into the community and so was he. By complaining about his race we draw rigid social and cultural lines purely on skin color. Danny's father was raised in an Asian community, Danny was raised in an Asian community. For all practical intents and purposes Danny is Asian except for his skin color. The question: Is it reasonable to claim that a person raised in a culture has no right of claim on that culture simply because of the color of their skin? I don't think that is fair. There are real people who cross racial and cultural lines in this way, I don't think it is fair that we erase any claim they have to the culture in which they were raised.

It is a complex and muddied issue, one that has no clear answer. I have my conclusion, but I don't pretend that it is the only reasonable one.

That sums up my thoughts on the issue pretty well actually. I'm sure people like Idris Elba would take issue if you tried to tell them they weren't actually British, because of their skin tone. Or any number of people from the United States of an insane mixture of ethnicities possible due to population, and say they aren't "Murican enough". I know people actually say this shit, but they are of course, fucking idiots, and a prime example of why this type of thinking, from either side of the coin, is stupid.

Well, American is a nationality, not an ethnicity or race. Same applies to British I suppose. People might get miffed if Idris described himself as English.

we had a similiar issue last year when a white person tried to pass themselves off as black. There is nothing wrong with immersing yourself into another culture and taking their values as your own (and in fact i think its encouraging that people will not limit themselves to what they are born as but choose their own identity), but you will never be considered part of that group.

For example, I knew someone who was adopted by Italian parents. She herself came from Asian descent, and though she was raised her whole life in Italian culture and even spoke Italian, she was always considered Korean. Now, if she was white she might be considered Italian (it is kinda difficult to differentiate the various European ethnicity from a glance, usually it is your last name that gives it away).

Im not a huge fan of placing importance on bloodlines and things you are born as, but in regards to how people are identified in regards to ethnicity and race (and nationality), it is not based upon merit. The only identity that is based on "merit" is religion and political orientation.

You are correct, American isn't an ethnicity, but these mystic powers are never presented as being an ethnic thing either. I can't recall a single example of the "ancient asian mystical training" being described as being something that is unique to only people of that genetic makeup. Frequently someone, usually the rival of the protagonist (Iceman to the Maverick) will say something like "But he knows nothing of our ways! He is an outsider!" But it's usually phrased to imply the fault is in his lack of knowledge, not lack of particular chromosomes. And the teacher, who apparently feels that their knowledge is something anyone can learn, (and in fact must be so, otherwise why bother trying to teach anyone outside of your race about your culture/wisdom?), will counter saying "Well then, we shall teach him, and if he learns, then he learns" And poof, you have a training montage. It's about as standard as it comes when it comes to stories about fighting/martial arts. "I'm really keen and good!" "Punk, shut up, you don't know shit!" *smacks guys down* "Huh, you're right, I don't know shit!" "That's ok, I will teach you, so you will then know shit! And thus be bad as shit!" "Ok! Let's do it!" This paraphrased formula is about as standard as it comes, and nothing about it has anything to do with the race of the person.

But hey, if we want to go down the road of "the white guy can't learn our training, because he's inferior to us due to his white ancestry" That's fine too. But I think whoever tried to use that as an arguing point would lose the moral highground about racist representations of ethnicities.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

No matter what you did here, you were going to piss off someone.

Cast a white dude (even though Iron Fist was always a white guy, unless there's some variation I'm unfamiliar with): white savior story, should have gone with an Asian guy, too many white people, etc etc.

Cast a black guy: Should have gone to an Asian guy and/or we don't need that because we already have Luke Cage.

Cast a Hispanic guy: Should have gone to an Asian guy.

Cast an Asian guy: Asian people knowing martial arts is a stereotype, plays into the "Mystical Martial Arts Superhero" trope.

Anyway, I'm kinda curious if they're going to change his facemask, since it looks basically exactly like the one Daredevil wore for 90% of season 1.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Jesus H Christ on a Bicycle made out of Spaghetti, have NONE OF YOU read an Iron Fist comic?

Danny Rand? He's the 67th Iron Fist. The SIXTY SEVENTH! He's not even the BEST Iron Fist, he's middle of the pack, NOR is he the first white guy! Plus, there's been an Indian one who was a strategist, a woman who was a pirate, he's just the current one in the lineage. In Universe, anyone can fall into K'un Lun it's just got a high Chinese (because I'm not saying 'Asian', you can't define ethnicity and culture by fucking continents) population and was initially conceived in the 70's where the White Saviour thing was a lot more prevelant. Since then the idea has evolved and

What really pisses me off about this is how a quick wikipedia scan can have everyone on a high horse about how a character is clearly backwards as if there hasn't been development of the idea in X many years. And this weird ass assumption he's a master Martial Artist who beats all other characters.

Show of hands, Shang Chi anyone? Who is the ACTUAL best martial artists in the Marvel Universe? Or how about his rival Shen Kuei who is also top tier? Hell, the STEEL FUCKING SERPENT, who was trained in K'un Lun but exiled and didn't get magical dragon chi powers. Along with a fair selection of other skilled fighters in K'un Lun like Lei Kung the Thunderer and Yu-Ti who don't take the trial but are still as skilled as the Iron Fist, in fact, given he's clearly in the series since his logo turned up on the heroin packs in DD, I think it's worth pointing out how their first fight went

This is them first meeting

And this is Danny getting his ass beat by someone born and raised in K'un Lun who was exiled for his terrible personality.

Even with magic powers, Danny Rand doesn't always beat the guys who've been trained in it their whole life. And this is bearing in mind that he has the advantage of "having the chi of Shou Lau the Undying." which Steel Serpent considers his birth-right. Almost like the comics are AWARE that being a 'Kung Fu Master' is seen as something you associate with being Chinese.

-deep breath-

OK, got it out of my system.

OT: I kinda hoped they wouldn't swap the dudes race, seems MORE racist to assume he has to be Chinese to know Kung Fu, though it wouldn't have been the end of the world. I mean, it might've enhanced the 'torn between two worlds' angle, but if he's Chinese it's more about the old country and the new which isn't REALLY a theme in the comics, more how lost and without purpose he feels (really, the whole first few issues could be adapted and updated to reflect the current problems soldiers face re-integrating into society which is a much stronger theme than the 'two worlds' thing, I know it's what I would focus on given how quickly he gives up on revenge).

As long as he romances Misty Knight, they don't run the revenge sub-plot into the ground and the fight choreography stays as good as in Daredevil, it's gonna be good.

... Though I'm clearly a fan of the character so I might be biased.

 

[SirSullymore]

Nicely done Capt. Marvelous, I admit I've never read Iron Fist, but I was aware that Danny was just the newest in line of them. If this series really delves into some of the historic ones you mentioned(kung-fu pirate lady!), it could be really great and unique.

 

[Luminous_Umbra]

Snipping all these great points

THANK YOU.

For goodness sake, Danny gets involved in a Tournament Arc (TM) and loses in the FIRST ROUND. He's been defeated so many times that it's super clear that so many people in this thread know nothing about him. Can't stand it when people that know nothing about a character want to change them to suit their ignorance.

 

[DementedSheep]

Y'know at least most of the stupid extreme SJWs take issue with people who actually have some influence on something, rather than trawling though tumblr or twitter to find people to complain about and misrepresent.