Fixing Misconceptions: Pickup trucks, SUVs, and muscle cars

[Cavan]

First, lets handle the easy ones:
1) Bad Handling: Handling for a vehicle is entirely subjective and depends on the drivers skill, not weather it is a certain class of vehicle (although, that certainly has some affect). I, personally, found it harder to drive my dads 2007 Chevy Silverado than to drive my 1972 Chevy Cheyenne, which had no power steering, no power brakes, no anti-lock brakes, no....anything really, while the Silverado did.

No, that is you creating your very own misconceptions. That's like saying fuel economy is 100% subjective because driver skill can make a tank last longer, all those subjective burning chemicals with their opinions. Don't confuse quality with difficulty and even familiarity.

The reason why pick up trucks specifically have terrible handling is: partly down to the fact that there is little weight over the back tyres for a large amount of the time, partly down to the overall wheel base/size and general weight of the thing and partially due to the suspension not being really tuned for track day handling over practical things like going over rough roads.

Not that handling has that much relevance in day to day driving at normal road speeds :/, unless it's so bad that it's actually dangerous.

I'm still at a loss as to how this affects anyone in the UK or why they would even give two shits what I was driving on the other side of the planet

Maybe because there's this big 'drive' to lower the amount of fuel we're using? It's not like the planet is this big interconnected thing or anything. It's happening in another country so therefore nothing in America can ever have any effect on any of them foreigners?

 

[teebeeohh]

i don't think we Europeans have a problem with people hauling stuff around in trucks, however i live in a city and i see a lot of SUVs and trucks that have never hauled anything except maybe fat and/or drunk people. and that's just wasteful, especially when those dumb shits can't park properly and take up 1 1/2 parking spaces.

 

[Gulvplanke]

I haul large amounts of firewood in an old BMW 3-series. Just attach a trailer to it and you're good to go! No need for a pickup truck. Sure, they're easier to drive and park then a car + trailer and they're better on rough terrain and you don't have to attach/de-attach the trailer all the time... I want a pickup truck now

 

[chadachada123]

One thing many people don't get is that, for a very sizable portion of the United States, trucks are damn-near necessary just to get around in winter.

Almost every single house in my neighborhood in Michigan has at least one pickup in addition to their other vehicles. Edit: and I'm not in a well-off neighborhood at all, by the way.

Small cars alone simply can't survive in Michigan, sometime or another you're going to be stuck in weather that only a larger vehicle could best. Something that most of Europe doesn't have to deal with at all.

 

[demoman_chaos]

I have owned a 1979 Ford Ranchero GT (with a 351 cui V8), a 1977 Cadillac Eldorado (With a 425 cui. V8), and I currently own an 1987 Porsche 944S (2.5L I4). Having driven both land yatchs and Euro sports cars (Along with a lot of trucks, my dad traded far too much), I can say from experience it is all how you drive. With my Cadillac I could pull off about 15 or 16 mpg in town (for a 7.0L engine in a massive car built in the 70's, that is no small feat). Of course the vehicle matters, but it matters more how you drive.

 

[Gulvplanke]

One thing many people don't get is that, for a very sizable portion of the United States, trucks are damn-near necessary just to get around in winter.

Almost every single house in my neighborhood in Michigan has at least one pickup in addition to their other vehicles. Edit: and I'm not in a well-off neighborhood at all, by the way.

Small cars alone simply can't survive in Michigan, sometime or another you're going to be stuck in weather that only a larger vehicle could best. Something that most of Europe doesn't have to deal with at all.

I live in Norway and I drive around in a 97' Volkswagen Golf at the moment. Never had any problems during the winter.

 

[tangoprime]

snip

Um, did you get that I just hit you with this?

Yes. Yes I do. As I said, my "Everything American Made" bias over-rules that.

Jeremy says otherwise.


All I have to say is: He makes a good point, american cars are bad because they are american.

Checkmate, yankies.

He then says otherwise after he gets to play with a Corvette.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aU09WT5rXg

 

[chadachada123]

I can totally see why soccer moms drive huge SUVs here in Dallas, what with all these huge mountains and their love for off-roading.

To be fair...

The SUV has the same function as a minivan. Carrying plenty of people or stuff. However, SUVs have a helluvalot more power than minivans do, but with a similar gas mileage. Having a minivan is illogical when compared to an SUV, from what I can tell, unless I'm missing some great fact that puts minivans on the same or greater level as SUVs. The only reason I can think of is cost, weighing the price of one over the usefulness of the other.

I don't think this is a European thing, it's more "not the US" in general. Russians and Chinese, Japanese all drive normal vehicles. We aren't going to drop everything and start driving your cars just because you say we should! =p

Frankly, I reckon the whole fixation on these things is just another facet of blatant American nationalism... (of course, they'd never call it that, but if it looks like a drainpipe and acts like a drainpipe...)

(Also, you can add "RVs" to that list. Seriously, what the hell? So it's like a camper vans the same size as a lorry? How do you justify something like that?)

I can't speak of Russia, but you can't compare Japan or China or Europe to the United States. The weather, crowding, and infrastructure are incomparable when talking about driving.

Japan is crowded as hell, and has a fast rail system and many alternatives to vehicles, and on top of that don't have the weather that warrants trucks in the northern US. They don't have vast forests and the like that warrant vehicles with power. They don't have unpaven roads covering the entire country.

China also has a weaker climate for most of the country (that I know of), and...shit, how many people in China even own a vehicle? Their vehicles are made to be cheap, and blur the line between truck and car anyway.

Europe has, in addition to a weaker climate (barring Sweden, etc), a completely different set-up as far as cities and stuff go. Europe has most of their people living in cities, with almost everything within biking distance, and, like Japan, a railway for farther distances. The United States doesn't have that at all; everything in the US is spread over pretty large distances, necessitating heavier-duty vehicles for traversing the many areas that aren't urbanized or even paved.

Russia, I admit, I don't know much about. When I picture Russia, I picture most of the populace living in cities, but I don't know for sure. I do know that Siberia would be hell in anything short of a truck, though, so I would think that most of *rural* Russia drives heavy-duty vehicles. I would guess.

 

[chadachada123]

One thing many people don't get is that, for a very sizable portion of the United States, trucks are damn-near necessary just to get around in winter.

Almost every single house in my neighborhood in Michigan has at least one pickup in addition to their other vehicles. Edit: and I'm not in a well-off neighborhood at all, by the way.

Small cars alone simply can't survive in Michigan, sometime or another you're going to be stuck in weather that only a larger vehicle could best. Something that most of Europe doesn't have to deal with at all.

I live in Norway and I drive around in a 97' Volkswagen Golf at the moment. Never had any problems during the winter.

I had meant to mention northern Europe in that post. I'm at a lose for how to explain that part away, other than to say that I personally have had plenty of trouble in winter driving here in Michigan in small vehicles. *Shrug* I don't know much about Norway other than "gets snow."

 

[Westaway]

I live in Canada, and atleast 80% of the people who live up here don't actually pull anything with their damn trucks.

 

[Limecake]

I live in Canada, and atleast 80% of the people who live up here don't actually pull anything with their damn trucks.

other than that dangling pair of testicles? Yeah it's stupid, I understand owning a truck if you are a farmer but I see way too many city kids driving around in a sparkly F-150.

although a truck is damn nice in the winter when you're car would just get stuck in the snow.

 

[Westaway]

I live in Canada, and atleast 80% of the people who live up here don't actually pull anything with their damn trucks.

other than that dangling pair of testicles? Yeah it's stupid, I understand owning a truck if you are a farmer but I see way too many city kids driving around in a sparkly F-150.

although a truck is damn nice in the winter when you're car would just get stuck in the snow.

Although I can't argue with that last point, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Trucks are fine for hauling stuff like OP said, most people don't. So in practice they're pointless most of the time.

 

[Gulvplanke]

One thing many people don't get is that, for a very sizable portion of the United States, trucks are damn-near necessary just to get around in winter.

Almost every single house in my neighborhood in Michigan has at least one pickup in addition to their other vehicles. Edit: and I'm not in a well-off neighborhood at all, by the way.

Small cars alone simply can't survive in Michigan, sometime or another you're going to be stuck in weather that only a larger vehicle could best. Something that most of Europe doesn't have to deal with at all.

I live in Norway and I drive around in a 97' Volkswagen Golf at the moment. Never had any problems during the winter.

I had meant to mention northern Europe in that post. I'm at a lose for how to explain that part away, other than to say that I personally have had plenty of trouble in winter driving here in Michigan in small vehicles. *Shrug* I don't know much about Norway other than "gets snow."

I don't know what the tire policies are like in Michigan, but here snowtires are mandatory during the winter months (There are still speople who gets surprised by the first snowfall every year and tries to drive to work with summertires. They usually crash into lampposts and clog up traffic).

More importantly however is the fact that all farmers and construction companies get paid to put snowplows on their trucks n' tractors and clear the roads. I have a friend who works for a construction company and he is put on "plow watch" if there is danger of snowfall, which means he have to clear his calender and be ready to go plowin' if it starts to snow. All major roads are cleard before they become undrivealbe (as long as you have snowtires on) and the roads whch are not cleard imideatly usually leads to place where people have trucks.

If it's like this in Michigan, then I suppose we're just better than you at driving.

 

[BOOM headshot65]

a '72 Plymouth Roadrunner for fun...

You lucky son of a gun!! (Roadrunner is favorite muscle car, and they are a pain to find)

They handle horribly. I love my truck too but I'm not going to sit here and try to sugarcoat it. It handles like a fucking cruise liner. Your C10 is even worse in the bends, I at least have power steering and disc brakes in the front.[footnote]You never specified if yours had that option ticked, they came stock with front drums when they had manual brakes[/footnote] Europeans are used to vehicles that can turn quite well.

I have no idea if it had forward disk brakes. I know that it was the Cheyenne Super model if that helps (it had Air Conditioning and semi-powered steering, but it might as well have been unpowered). I, unfortunatly, dont have it anymore. It ran just fine, but the body, and even the engine were starting to fall apart, and I didnt have the money to put it back together, nor did my dad have time to install the parts (that is one of the things my dad like: He could work on it without having to go to his friends repair shop like with his truck). Plus, I am starting college in the fall, so it would have been even more used more, it would have fallen apart even faster. So, I sold it to a guy who was going to restore and sell it again, and I got a 1997 GMC Sonoma ZR2. I HATE the looks of it, but I wont complain about the 21 MPG. However, my brother thinks it looks absolutely beautiful (even with those ugly red rims on it), and he wants it when he gets his first vehicle here soon. My parents said if they find something more "my style" (IE, older than 1980 and made by GMC or Chevy) then they will get me that and give my bro the Sonoma.

That's debatable these days. Your '72 Chevy and my '85 Ford are examples of old trucks that were built right, mine having just over 300,000 miles on the original powertrain. But I somehow doubt modern trucks could survive like our older ones have. I seriously doubt at 2012 F150 will survive 26 years of hard work and still run beautifully with 300K on the clock. I doubt a 2012 Silverado will last 40 years on the factory engine.

Yes, this is very true. Actually, I would say its most vehicles now, not just trucks. This is why all but the command vehicles in the county fire department are pickup trucks older than 1994, they are easier to fix and the parts are cheaper. (they also use old, converted army Deuce-and-a-halfs. Those are fun to drive off-road fighting grassfires). This is also why I like old american vehicles. It seems that old american vehicles, weather they be cars, trucks, or SUVs, just keep on going. Maybe it is because the american auto worker put pride in the car he was working on, which is not present in the factories overseas making Chevys and Fords now.

 

[Ham_authority95]

Hey guys, all this talk of cars has made me want to share my personal favorites:

Spoiler

</a

Look at this baby! It has a ton of seating, several dozen to be exact, and is really fuel efficent. I hardly have to pay for gas! And because of it's size, I never have trouble parking.

Spoiler

[http://s1078.photobucket.com/albums/w493/bikerguy26/?action=view¤t=bike.jpg]

This is my favorite for day trips. It's really light, quick, and fuel cheap. Fuel only costs as much as my breakfast!

I would highly encourage you guys to try one of these, especially the latter. I've gotten so many miles out of them. You'll just have to hear these babies BURN!

 

[Strazdas]

Im not against people buying picup trucks to move stuff. im aaisnt peopel buying pickup trucks, NEVER driving off the paved road and NEVER dragging anything and then complaining that gas is too expensive for them.