Fixing Netflix's iron fist (spoilers)

[rosac]

Ok, so a disclaimer, iron fist is my favourite marvel hero, and I was overall, disappointed by the netflix show, so I thought I'd have a look at how it could be improved.

1.) Make the focus of the show clearer - Daredevil had the idea of dealing justice whilst trying to stick to your morals, Jessica Jones was about overcoming fears/PTSD, Luke Cage was about trying to do the right thing despite the environment you're in and the scum you're dealing with (until a certain character died and it went batshit).

Iron fist seemed to be about the struggle of identity - is the main character Danny Rand, the son of a millionaire trying to make his way back into a strange new society, or is he the immortal iron fist, weapon of Kun-Lun, greatest warrior there is? The show does make some attempt at this by giving him 2 sets of villains - the Wards are Danny Rands enemies, the hand (more on them below) are Iron Fist's enemies. But other than the Davos scenes noone is really trying to make Danny question which he is, which to me makes no sense. He has spent the majority of his life becoming the iron fist and then goes "lol, bye, off to earth" without showing a real second thought? They tried it again with the whole "Danny fucks up business by selling a pill at cost, proving he is an idiot" whereas his Iron fist training had him believe that it was the best cause, but this wasn't sold to me

I'd like it to be more overt, more played out, there's time for subtlety but fuck me the script doesn;t seem to know what it's trying to show.

2. The hand. Look, fuck off. The hand are not the main enemy of Kun-Lun. They could be one of many enemies of Kun-Lun (which still doesn't make too much sense but I'd be willing to go for it). It gives Danny a less personal enemy because people see them as the Daredevils foe so far, whereas all the other Marvel Netflix villains have had some kind of connection with the show lead. I would say make Davos and maybe some monks from Kun-Lun trying to bring Danny back to his role as the Iron Fist an enemy to really sell the Iron fist/Danny Rand split OR Just admit what you're doing with Madame Gau and have her revealed to be an immortal weapon as well, making her conspire to do damage to Kun-Lun through her actions on earth as revenge for say... A former Iron Fist killing her predecessor?

3. Fairly pointless side stories. Most of these involve Coleen Wing really. She starts cage fighting to win money for her dojo. It's awesome. Then it's dropped because Danny waves his cheque book around. Coleen is part of the hand. Danny forgives her. So two plotlines that have no real endgame.

4. The costume. Kind of petty, linked to point 1, but the Iron fist outfit is given to an iron fist when they defeat Shou Lau. I'd like Danny to keep it, or have Davos return it to him to remind him of his duty.

5. Wards arc = good. Joys arc = Wtf.

6. I could ***** about the casting (especially as the guy who was the drunken master applied) but they could have at least given Finn Jones more training cos the fight scenes were pretty damn dire.

7. Pacing, but Netflix has had this issue since Daredevil season 2.


I probably have more, but they're the main things, with points 1 and 2 being the most important.

Seriously, fuck the hand.

 

[maninahat]

There, better premise!

BUT SERIOUSLY

Netflix first need to drop their episode number down to eight. Maybe less. It cuts out the dross. Presumably some producer wants more episodes because it means there's more to sell to other channels, but more episodes mean nothing if I don't watch half of them (which is exactly the case when it came to Iron Fist, I've only gotten about five episodes in).

Second, I agree with finding its central theme. To me, this seemed like material for a lighter hearted, fish out of water sort of story, where a guy barely understands how a modern day capitalist country works, let alone how to be a billionaire. The fact that he is an immortal kung fu legend is part of that joke. it would be important to do that to further distinguish it from the whole "billionaire is a superhero" set up which has already been done.

Three, be a little less tone death. In this show, this skinny white gap year student looks like he's just got back from an Indian backpacking holiday, and nearly the first thing he does is start patronising the first asian american he sees, talking to her in mandarin, and (when that doesn't work) telling her she should teach kung fu. NO NO NO NO NO. FUCK! The source material has its own cultural issues without the show adding more.

Four - wicked fight scenes. As in, get some. 90% of the tv show (as a consequence of point one) is guys in suits standing in a sterile office, asking each other if this monk really is a long lost billionaire. Get someone who knows how to fight and get them to fight.

 

[Saelune]

I think they should just make Danny lighten up personality-wise in The Defenders, then forego Iron Fist/Luke Cage season 2's and just make Heroes for Hire.

I hope for alot of things I know will likely never happen in the MCU, but I really am hoping for that.

 

[hermes]

It is simple. In interviews, Finn and the producers admites that they gave the actor 2 weeks of preparation before shooting started, and 20 minutes to practice each action scene. That is just really bad job by the producers, and unacceptable for something of this level. They started the production after Luke Cage wrapped up, filmed with a shoestring of a budget and didn't rehearse. The result is closer to an amateur sweded kung fu movie than a high budget production. You know how John Wick has the choreographs that it had? Because Keanu Reeves trained 6 months to make it feel natural, and the stunt teams prepared for each scene for hours. Into the Badlands spends weeks on each episode. To give an actor with no background in martial arts less than half an hour and expect to get decent results is asking for a miracle.

The character of Iron Fist is not defined by brooding Batman-Begins-like plots, he is defined by being a guy that can fight really well. He can run circles around Bruce Lee on his best day. In close combat, he can go toe to toe with Daredevil or even Spiderman. Until they introduce the hand, he has to be leagues away from any other person, and it has to look natural. If he struggles to land a kick against a single night shift guard on a one-on-one fight, if the rich guy trades hits with him, they f*cked up the character. They hide it with short fast cuts and other cheap tricks, but it is still painfully obvious they were not ready and were "shooting whatever". And it seems like what we say was the best result they could get.

So, what is the way to fix Iron Fist? Fire the producers, and maybe the stunt coordinator. Hire the guys that are making "Into the Badlands", the ones that did "Daredevil" or get a team of people from Asia that really know their shit, and give them time. Parallelize the production; don't push for a 2 months production cycle; start production way before you wrap up the last show.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

The series needed to just be doing less. It was a whole string of "this...BUT ALSO THIS!" with none of it connecting well. I thought the business stuff where Danny's naivet? and innocence actually screw his company over was an interesting twist on the usual "someone unsuitable is in charge of the company" plot, but they don't really go anywhere with it. Could have made it an example of how Danny actually needs to learn to be more cutthroat and ruthless, since he's supposed to be a warrior and all, but nah, he's just going to mope over the moral quandary of killing someone...again.
I didn't much like that they tried to make him some kind of tortured soul either. Partly because he doesn't really pull it off too well but mostly because...well he's supposed to be a monk. With fifteen or so years of zen training I'd expect him to have moved on. Putting an uber-peaceful monk in New York should have been a goldmine for character and humour, and its what I thought they were going for from the trailers, but instead we get...whatever the hell it was we actually got

 

[DaCosta]

You can fix it the same way you could fix Luke Cage: focus on a single villain instead of 3 or 4.

 

[happyninja42]

I think they should just make Danny lighten up personality-wise in The Defenders, then forego Iron Fist/Luke Cage season 2's and just make Heroes for Hire.

I hope for alot of things I know will likely never happen in the MCU, but I really am hoping for that.

I don't think that's possible actually, based on the IF show. I mean, they seriously, and heavily implied that his ability to channel his chi is tied into his anger and his guilt. So having him lighten up, would theoretically hamper his ability to fight.

Plus, having a broken, angry, tortured soul as a protagonist is about as cliche as you get in writing, because it apparently works for a certain demographic of the audience. I guess they are angling for the "My love will heal his pain" kind of vibe from the fan. *shrugs*

 

[Saelune]

I think they should just make Danny lighten up personality-wise in The Defenders, then forego Iron Fist/Luke Cage season 2's and just make Heroes for Hire.

I hope for alot of things I know will likely never happen in the MCU, but I really am hoping for that.

I don't think that's possible actually, based on the IF show. I mean, they seriously, and heavily implied that his ability to channel his chi is tied into his anger and his guilt. So having him lighten up, would theoretically hamper his ability to fight.

Plus, having a broken, angry, tortured soul as a protagonist is about as cliche as you get in writing, because it apparently works for a certain demographic of the audience. I guess they are angling for the "My love will heal his pain" kind of vibe from the fan. *shrugs*

You can be a broken, angry, tortured soul...and have a sense of humor. Really, the best comedians are...broken, angry, tortured souls.

 

[happyninja42]

I think they should just make Danny lighten up personality-wise in The Defenders, then forego Iron Fist/Luke Cage season 2's and just make Heroes for Hire.

I hope for alot of things I know will likely never happen in the MCU, but I really am hoping for that.

I don't think that's possible actually, based on the IF show. I mean, they seriously, and heavily implied that his ability to channel his chi is tied into his anger and his guilt. So having him lighten up, would theoretically hamper his ability to fight.

Plus, having a broken, angry, tortured soul as a protagonist is about as cliche as you get in writing, because it apparently works for a certain demographic of the audience. I guess they are angling for the "My love will heal his pain" kind of vibe from the fan. *shrugs*

You can be a broken, angry, tortured soul...and have a sense of humor. Really, the best comedians are...broken, angry, tortured souls.

Sure, IRL, people can be that way and be funny, but not in stories. Visual medium uses very simple tropes to convey quick information to the audience. They don't like subtlety very much. If the character is meant to be tortured and troubled, he will LOOK and ACT tortured and troubled. Other than in say, something Joss Whedon does, I can't think of an example of a character type like you are describing. Joss does it a lot, Angel was a good example, but he has always had an angle for humor in all of his work. But most characters, even of his shows, if they were moody and mopey, they acted it.

 

[Saelune]

I think they should just make Danny lighten up personality-wise in The Defenders, then forego Iron Fist/Luke Cage season 2's and just make Heroes for Hire.

I hope for alot of things I know will likely never happen in the MCU, but I really am hoping for that.

I don't think that's possible actually, based on the IF show. I mean, they seriously, and heavily implied that his ability to channel his chi is tied into his anger and his guilt. So having him lighten up, would theoretically hamper his ability to fight.

Plus, having a broken, angry, tortured soul as a protagonist is about as cliche as you get in writing, because it apparently works for a certain demographic of the audience. I guess they are angling for the "My love will heal his pain" kind of vibe from the fan. *shrugs*

You can be a broken, angry, tortured soul...and have a sense of humor. Really, the best comedians are...broken, angry, tortured souls.

Sure, IRL, people can be that way and be funny, but not in stories. Visual medium uses very simple tropes to convey quick information to the audience. They don't like subtlety very much. If the character is meant to be tortured and troubled, he will LOOK and ACT tortured and troubled. Other than in say, something Joss Whedon does, I can't think of an example of a character type like you are describing. Joss does it a lot, Angel was a good example, but he has always had an angle for humor in all of his work. But most characters, even of his shows, if they were moody and mopey, they acted it.

The topic is about fixing it. Not "Will they fix it?". Giving Danny a better sense of humor and making him and Luke buddies would be a major improvement that is far more likely to happen than Daredevil and Spider-Man teaming up against Kingpin.

 

[rosac]

I think they should just make Danny lighten up personality-wise in The Defenders, then forego Iron Fist/Luke Cage season 2's and just make Heroes for Hire.

I hope for alot of things I know will likely never happen in the MCU, but I really am hoping for that.

I don't think that's possible actually, based on the IF show. I mean, they seriously, and heavily implied that his ability to channel his chi is tied into his anger and his guilt. So having him lighten up, would theoretically hamper his ability to fight.

Yeah I didn't really like this. Sure Danny is just using how to use his Chi but a lot of it in the comics is about knowing oneself and being able to master it as an extension of your own body. Of course it does have punchy punchy uses but still.

God I hope they bring Orson Randall in at some point.

snip

Aye, I think this relates to my focus on a theme but you make a good point, so much was unresolved, resolved too easily or just straight up dropped then picked up again for a story arc that came out of nowhere and for no reason.

 

[Breakdown]

I hope they don't change Danny, I really like how childish and stupid he is, it's refreshing. If I was a superhero I'd behave like he does. Even his enemies have to start giving him advice on how to do his job properly.

 

[Queen Michael]

I just watched the final episode and holy shitbuckets did that show suck. Maybe it's because I marathoned it, but the show is just so boring. Yeah, it starts out okay, but it never really gets going. It's like if the Springsteen "Glory Days" were to end after fifteen seconds--it wouldn't be as good a song, because that kick-ass intro is only good because something follows after it.

Also, why do we never get to see K'un-Lun? How does the series improve by not showing us that? "Yeah, we have this guy from a magical ancient city, who fought a dragon with his bare hands. So obviously, corporate board meetings and hostile takeovers is what we should focus on." Awesome idea! The next Spider-Man movie should focus on Aunt May doing her taxes!

And yeah, the fight scenes weren't great. You never got a feeling that Iron Fist was this invincible warrior god. He just felt like one out of many skilled fighters.

Another problem: All the most interesting characters were given the least focus (except for Madame Gao, who got the screentime she deserved). You know the guy who murdered people while singing karaoke? Or the drunk guy who spoke in that nifty British accent? Now those were interesting! But no, we got much more focus on Ward. And he was not that interesting. He actually had a decent arc, but not great. Not even good, IMO. Just not that bad. And Joy felt like a cookie-cutter character: a twenty-something woman who speaks in a soft almost whispering voice, and is strong but gets Very Emotional sometimes... She had no real unique personality.

 

[hermes]

Also, why do we never get to see K'un-Lun? How does the series improve by not showing us that? "Yeah, we have this guy from a magical ancient city, who fought a dragon with his bare hands. So obviously, corporate board meetings and hostile takeovers is what we should focus on." Awesome idea! The next Spider-Man movie should focus on Aunt May doing her taxes!

Well, the answer to that one is easy: budget.

It is the same reason why we only see the part of "China" that looks a lot like some New Jersey pier and some closed factory, and Shou-Lao is apparently in Danny's mind, and the only thing we see of Danny's flashbacks are an empty dark room and an empty snow field, and there are like 2 monks in all of K'un Lun, and he gets most of the episodes without being able to use his iron fist.

The series has some obvious budgetary problems, but there are better ways to disguise it than with close-ups of people staring at some amazing thing, standing in some amazing place, while talking about how amazing what they are seeing is... instead of actually showing that thing. I am not an expert in editing, but those workarounds were quite amateurish.

 

[WolfThomas]

So, what is the way to fix Iron Fist? Fire the producers, and maybe the stunt coordinator. Hire the guys that are making "Into the Badlands", the ones that did "Daredevil" or get a team of people from Asia that really know their shit, and give them time. Parallelize the production; don't push for a 2 months production cycle; start production way before you wrap up the last show.

Also if you gave him a mask like in the comics you can get a professional martial artist/stuntman to do the fight scenes.

Superhero costume and prop design have come a long way. Daredevil's mask looks great. I'm sure they could make something work.

4. The costume. Kind of petty, linked to point 1, but the Iron fist outfit is given to an iron fist when they defeat Shou Lau. I'd like Danny to keep it, or have Davos return it to him to remind him of his duty.

I don't think it's petty. Daredevil's costume looks great. Why can't Iron Fist have a great costume?

As mentioned above it also impacts the stunts. In Daredevil you have a great professional stuntman in Chris Brewster hidden behind the mask.

Iron Fist actually also has sensible in-universe reasons to have a costume. He is a famous billionaire and he was given a ceremonial uniform in K'un-Lun.

My idea of the costume would be shirtless with the tattoo prominent. Green loose martial arts paints with a gold sash. Bare feet, with hand and foot wraps. Then a yellow mask like we see in the footage of a former Iron Fist. Functional and accurate.

In scene where fighting is unexpected or he has to wear civilian clothes, he simply dones the mask quickly (unless completely surprised) but his clothes would be a combination of green and gold. Like a tracksuit or cargo pants etc.

 

[jademunky]

Funny that the teenage version of Danny from that Web Warriors cartoon was much more mature and level-headed than the the alleged "adult" version of the same character.

The live-action version seems to have no clue what he wants or loses interest in the thing he wants as soon as he gets it. Seriously, he trains for a decade to be the Iron First, then immediately abandons his duties when they do not give him that emotional completeness he expects. He then fights tooth-and-nail to get his family's company back from his former best friends (who actually have the training, time, ability and inclination to run a company) and then also does nothing with it even though it's assets could be presumably used to Batmanize his crusade against the Hand.

 

[Breakdown]

Funny that the teenage version of Danny from that Web Warriors cartoon was much more mature and level-headed than the the alleged "adult" version of the same character.

The live-action version seems to have no clue what he wants or loses interest in the thing he wants as soon as he gets it. Seriously, he trains for a decade to be the Iron First, then immediately abandons his duties when they do not give him that emotional completeness he expects. He then fights tooth-and-nail to get his family's company back from his former best friends (who actually have the training, time, ability and inclination to run a company) and then also does nothing with it even though it's assets could be presumably used to Batmanize his crusade against the Hand.

It makes sense for Danny to be immature and childish. He was a nerdy and insecure kid, and then his parents died in a plane crash and he found himself in a totally alien environment where he faced beatings and intense discipline, forcing him to repress all of his emotions. So he never really had any emotional development, and once he left the monastery and went back to New York, he started to experience all of the emotions he'd been bottling up, and reverted back to the insecure child mentality. That's why he found it easy to find his chi and do the glowing hand thing at the beginning of the series, but then it became more and more difficult as his emotions got all out of whack.

 

[Souplex]

I misread the title as "Fisting Netflix's Iron Fist".

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I misread the title as "Fisting Netflix's Iron Fist".

Show's doing that on its own already.