Flash Game Makes Players Beat Up "Tropes vs. Women" Creator

[Xanadu84]

Too all you cynics, realize this.

A few trolls dedicated a few hours to programming a shitty flash game. Okay that's bad.

Assuming gamers get their kickstarter money from jobs that earn on average a very impressive $20 an hour (which is, umm, optimistic), and that most of that money comes from gamers (which seems reasonable), then gamers have donated. 8,000 man hours in money alone to the cause of supporting this video. Do the trolling attempts require the equivilent of about 4 years of a full time job? I'm thinking no.

Yes, there is stupid. But that kind of disproportionally large support for the video shows that gamers as a community are up to putting their money where their mouths are in regards to exploring these problems with gender stereotypes. And that's excluding both reasonable criticisms and those who don't want to donate to ludicrous stretch goals. Weighing the economic value of cold hard cash against the value of time spent trolling on the Internet, how could gamers possibly be MORE progressive and open minded? 100% support of any issue is functionally impossible, but were actually pretty close.

Also I hate to say it but...do we know this game wasn't a well intentioned attempt to support the hypothesis of the kickstarter? Clearly demonstrating sexism against the project head brings attention, maybe someones trying to help by planting a lie? I mean...people USUALLY aren't ACTUALLY this stupid. I'm skeptical.

 

[runic knight]

I?m terribly sorry if my existence necessitates a misogynistic response but I think they?d do perfectly fine without me. As for a biased perspective, it?s a little difficult to present the existence of a violent flashgame in such a way that draws easy conclusions and I?m not sure how you can possible claim any basis for an evidence of bias on this. It boggles my mind on how you could possibly feel there?s more to this display and makes me wonder what the hell you?re thinking. And I?m not talking about the wider picture just then between weird accusations of baiting and calling out and other things that just don?t stick.

My complaints about you are not based in sexism, but of rationality. therefore calling them "misogynistic" is little more then name-calling. The problem here is that you, like her, point at the frothing 4chan mob and declare them a fair representation of gamers. You, just like her, point to the response she manipulated as justification of the claims when they are not. I will agree he is an asshole (as already stated), I just find it dishonest to claim that such an asshat justifies support for his opposition. One bad apple does not ruin the bunch here.

Actually yes I have you arrogant twerp. Why would you think I hadn?t? Because I don?t agree with you? I disagree with a few of her views and I didn?t write about it in length in that post but my analysis and interactions (depressing interactions) with the backlash have firmly made up my mind and this latest display, good lord. You have presumed my knowledge and background with no basis whatsoever. Congratulations, you are a presumptuous prick.

Furthermore, you didn?t have the common courtesy to ask me about this before laying stupid insults at me and presuming to know me and my motivations. I have studied all her views, watched all videos, read her blog, and have done the same for those who oppose her and arrived at a conclusion. You jumping down my throat proves just the sort of knee-jerk reaction you?re stupidly trying to impose on me and others. So further congratulations are to be laid upon you for being a much truer sheep.

I would think it because, as you so eloquently put it and I made sure to point out with a secondary quote.

the backlash and the reactions against Sarkeesian not only firmly put me on her side, but made me decide to take up feminism again.

This may be just me, but when you out and out say the reason you made the final decision to side with he is because of the trolls that were intentionally riled up, it suggests you are only doing it because of the response of the trolls intentionally riled up.
Now, call me strange for assuming that what you said there was actually what you meant to say, but presumptuous... not quite. My jumping down your through though is because of the stupidity of making a decision because of the loudmouthed in the crowd. Sorry I have a knee-jerk reaction to blatantly errored reasoning being proudly proclaimed, as you have, but that is less about me being a gamer here and more about calling bullshit as bullshit. Not sure how that is sheep-like so much as trying to uphold a standard of rationality.

I couldn?t give a shit about 4chan and the sort of people who dwell there so I suppose I?m on her side on this as well. Oh I?m sure there?s a lovely community between the tentacle rape and child porn I found there, but I?m sure even the ?vilest asshole? in my city would have trouble competing with the behaviour we?ve seen in the past few weeks.

This suggests that your claims to be aware of everything is nothing but bullshit. You know, since her vid was spammed over 4chan, a place notorious for trolls and is what fueled the worst of what she got in terms of asshat commentators. But please, actually address my point if you would. Is it fair to look at the worst and say they represent the whole? I would hope your response is a "no", though since you fail to understand my point of raising it before I don't know. To put it more directly, she claims the trolls represent gamers as a whole after her video was baited over the assholes of the web. This is akin to saying all bears are killers after wrapping steak around yourself and jumping into a bit of starving bears. It IS dishonest representation.

You know nothing about me. Nothing. Not my background, education, lifestyle or views. It?s far more depressing that people like you exist; people who?re so quick to baselessly condemn without a talk first.

It?s a little more than ?internet assholery? as you put it. Something bigger and deeper is clearly going on and it?s a real shame it manifested like THIS. It?s pretty damn clear the need for this is far greater and frankly my donation will only be to spite people like you. Grounds for sheepishness on that basis is justified, but there are other things going on (not that you care to notice or ask.)

I know nothing of you except what opinion you posted, which,m as you still seem to keep defending the whole "they were assholes so I will side with her" crap, it IS a sad depressing state. I use that to condemn your opinion because that is all you put of your opinion on this measure. This isn't assumption of your character, this isn't saying you go out and kick puppies or something, this is looking at what you claimed about letting a dishonest representation sway your decision and calling it out for being the same bullshit I have seen before. Sorry if that affronts you, but you haven't done anything to actually address what I said except get pissed off that I said. I get it, you don't like it, why don't you explain how I misinterpreted your exact words taken in context though rather then keep saying "you are wrong because of shit that isn't being remarked on". Go on, address how a misrepresented bunch of trolls represents the number of people who can earnestly and fairly dig into her videos and find them filled with problems. Hell, address her own claims about the trolls representing gamers as a whole.

I called you out for bullshit reasoning. I've explained why it is bullshit reasoning. Do you have rebuttal to that?

Saying something bigger is going on is fine, but saying youtube trolling by 4chan is the sign of it is unjustified misrepresentation of things and, as I said before, utter bullshit. But please, keep talking about "people like me" as though the one whining about how I don't know who they are actually knows about me and my stance on the matter. After all doing something out of spite for spite sake has never been the sign of someone showing sheepishness. Reverse psychology anyone?

Yes. ?Her being trolled.? Have YOU looked at the backlash? It?s a bit more than that and clearly demonstrates something else is going on. Her encouragement of this wave of bile was little more than simply existing just as my own existence has been your empty, condescending rebuttal. From her own videos I found much to disagree with and was planning on being only mildly supportive (at least until we saw the true meat) but having talked with and examined just how much I disagree with the backlash, my position was finally clear and I have to oppose them. As for her argument on videogames, let?s watch a few more before we decide ?it often falls? hmm? I know that?s asking for a lot; your mind seems more firmly made up than my own.

I've seen the same backlash on youtube time and again. I've seen it in videos about religion, about politics and philosophy. threats of rape, death, family death, blah blah blah. This is not a sign of anything more then the assholes of the web being assholes. Hell, you act as though the reaction she got was a uniform reaction by a large number of disgruntled gamers. How many were trolls for trolling sake? 4chaners? Men's right activists who never picked up a controller? It is baffling why anyone would listen to her claims of it being gamer's reaction. And don't get me started about numbers. As though a couple hundred assholes (not even breaking down non-gamers, trolls, etc) actually fairly represent more then 120 million male gamers in this nation alone... Do you not understand the level of sheer intellectual dishonesty involved in a claim like that?!?

And finally, a completely unfounded accusation. I only care because she?s a woman? Well I can never disprove that, so you win! Oh, maybe it?s a projection of your own sexism? My support for thinking so is better than your reasons to think what you do because you have no basis, but the fact you make such a wild accusation gives me the basis I need.

This shit needs to be confronted, as do people like you. But I think your post has ticked all the boxes. One, final, congratulations, is in order.

Not quite my case, more so that you may only care because of the vile directed at her is using her gender as a point to attack by. But it wasn't an accusation in the end, merely a thought on the matter. the lack of integrity is, and one I will argue still as I have above, but the other aspect is merely an aside about you. As it isn't an accusation, does that mean the rest of your fault counterargument of "You made a bad accusation therefore the opposite is true" falls apart? Or will you try to rework it because you already think I am some sexist asshole when really I am just sick of bullshit logic being perpetuated as justification. I don't support the guy who made the game, nor the commenters. But I sure as hell don't support her bullshit logic and terrible videos either. The way you present it, it is as though there are only the two choice, with her or sexist.

 

[darkfox85]

Trolling is out of line? Well no shit detective, but when you are widely known you have to suck it up because there is always someone that will hate you.

I don?t deny this. But come on, it?s fair enough to at least comment on it all. This level of harassment and loathing is unmatched and betrays a lot of evil attitudes.

I guess the difference is that I don't have a bunch of game "Journalists" trying to pander and gain ad revenue for stupid meaningless trash they found while surfing the net.

You also didn?t generate an insane circus.

Trust me there is some real sick shit out there,

I know. Don?t get condescending.

[T]hey decide to report this because of the controversy surrounding the issue. If you agree with anita's views on games then I hope you really fucking like solitaire because that's the only thing that wouldn't cause controversy at this point.

Not true. Look at her older videos. But even if it true, let?s at least wait until she put?s out a few more, ok?

This kind of shit makes it embarrassing to be a fucking gamer,

Yeah there are one or two things that make me really fucking embarrassed to be a gamer to! As well as ashamed and sickened!

OH NO A HENCHMEN TOUCHED LARA'S THIGH FUCK THATS TOO FAR!!!, ITS NOT LIKE IT REALLY FUCKING HAPPENS IN REAL LIFE THE DEVELOPERS ARE OBVIOUSLY PERVERTS BECAUSE THEIR GAMES AREN'T FUCKING SUNSHINE AND GUMDROPS! I've gotten to the point in this whole debate where I just say "Shut the fuck up, who cares?"

Straw man.
Watch her videos. No, actually, wait for them. Then you can talk. Maybe you?ll be right or half right, who knows?

Everyone with anita's point of view needs to go find a different hobby because I don't want you to fuck up mine.

No one has Anita?s POV except Anita. But people like you are ruining *my* hobby. We have to share y?know. I think it?s fair to say you?ve had your turn.

 

[Jdb]

Good news, everyone. A possible solution has been found for future explorations into sexism and misogyny in video games, and maybe anything else having to do with behavior and video games: A systems analysis.

Starts at 4:09.


"Such an analysis would allow for inferences to be drawn from the game play in regards to gender hostility based on comparisons of typically masculine and feminine strategies."

By examining game play and how it interacts with the user, imbalances between masculine and feminine behavior can be determined based on existing facts.

 

[darkfox85]

Okay, I'll watch the video where she says video game ads cause sexual assault or maybe the one where she says christmas songs are sexist. I couldn't think of anything more unbiased or not fucking retarded.

Nice pic. *slow clap*

The Christmas songs video was stupid. I may even go so far as to say that?s the worst. But with feminism there are more variables to disagree on than any other political ideology, so there?s bound to be plenty of areas for fun and furious debate.

But in the Bayonetta video, she didn?t say ads ?cause sexual assault.? Ever. The last line of the vid used the word ?encouraged? not ?causes.? And referred to groping, not rape. You?re making another straw man because the information presented is clearly too complicated for you.

Sorry, that was cruel and unnecessary. But come on now, be honest. That ad campaign was a *little* outrageous and Anita commented that this sort of thing being *complimentary,* maybe even to a minor degree, to the way women are treated in Japan. Japan.

Further she criticises and is commenting over the necessity of female segregation. I have to agree; this should not be necessary in a civilised society! Do you not agree?

 

[darkfox85]

Groping is sexual assault, she want's female segregation on trains and public transportation. The day a fucking poster makes someone commit sexual assault is the day I'm wrong, SHE IS batshit crazy and the sooner you realize this the sooner you have my respect. WATCH THIS JUST FUCKING WATCH IT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbihPTgAql4

Yes. I've watched it. Thank you.

Alright. I'll let you off over that little semantic aside regarding the meaning of sexual assault as opposed to sexual harassment (which is a less ambiguous way of putting it, would you not agree?)

But she doesn't want female segregation on trains. She's clearly saddened by it. She feels that our cultures shouldn't be this way and wants to draw attention to this thing.

She says the posters are part of a wider society where sexual assau- sorry, sexual harassment are seen as okay or acceptable to such a degree to necessity gender segregation. It's all there in the vid. It's you who needs to "just fucking watch it."

She's not insane. You are.
[caps lock on] AND YOU WILL NEVER HAVE MA RESPEKT [caps lock off]

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

I am being honest about why it bothers me. In that female characters in the majority are only there for men to ogle. They are hardly ever 'just' people.

I could easily turn around and say to you why don't you be honest you just want to keep overtly sexualised characters in video games so you can ogle them. Feels kind of insulting doesn't it?

Your description of 'sex object' was about exactly the same as how the majority women are portrayed in video games.

So good job there.

Stop having such a defensive knee jerk reaction when women want to make things better for themselves.

And if you don't believe that guys think that girls couldn't possibly love video games look at most gender related threads on this site.

 

[darkfox85]

You didn't respond to her having no proof and thinking gamers are teenage boys.

The proof is the existence of gender segregation. As for the gamers are teenage boys thing, what? What're you talking about? Also, you didn't damn well address anything of mine!

It seems to me that she really has nothing better to do but to sit there and make videos that nitpick about pointless shit like christmas songs, video game posters etc.

I could say thst about any video poster on this site or at CA, or youtube, or anywhere. But I won't because it's a completely empty and childish thing to say!

Oh and In the video she says "This ad campaign encourages (Using game posters) doing misogyny.... dafuq, what did she say? She says it encourages Doing the hatred of women. You can't make this shit up.

I agree with her. Look at the social and cultural context. But she's saying it's a tiny part of a big picture that paves the way for those horrid measures we've talked about. I think we can all do better, don't you?

 

[darkfox85]

The problem here is that you, like her, point at the frothing 4chan mob and declare them a fair representation of gamers.

I?m an avid gamer myself y?know, and like I said in my first post, ?me and mine are what Americans would call Liberal.? You haven?t read or understood that, and once again show that you?re presumptuous and overly defensive. I have no way tied the entirety of gamer culture to be the lowest common denominator because to do so would be tying me and mine down as well. But neither has Anita. It?s just a shame she generated the response she did, and it?s a further shame that you?ve jumped to such a conclusion to beat yourself and your community with the victim stick.

I just find it dishonest to claim that such an asshat justifies support for his opposition. One bad apple does not ruin the bunch here... [W]hen you out and out say the reason you made the final decision to side with her is because of the trolls that were intentionally riled up, it suggests you are only doing it because of the response of the trolls intentionally riled up.

Alright. You do deserve a little clarification and credit.

?The backlash and the reactions against Sarkeesian not only firmly put me on her side, but made me decide to take up feminism again.? - Me

I don?t really give much detail did I? Maybe I should?ve. But you jumped to a lot of conclusions without a more in-depth discussion and then laid a bunch of condescending personal attacks against me and I responded in kind. Why not just ask me first before you came out with all that nonsense? (And suspiciously quickly I might add.)

But like I said to someone else, I suppose I wasn?t too clear. I felt angry before this flashgame showed up but this game is hatred and insanity which I suppose broke the camels back. But I don?t care how you rationalise and apologise for the insane outcry. We all knew this would be controversial but I think something larger, deeper, and more insidious is going on. With this comment, please don?t assume I?m tarring all of us with the same brush. Give me a *little* more credit than that, huh?

I?m showing the backlash had a backlash, and I think I?m justified. You hate the insane responses to her as much as I do (despite respectfully disagreeing with her a little more than me,) so do you not think I?m at least partially justified, even if you perhaps still feel my logic is flawed, irrational, and lazy?

[T]he stupidity of making a decision because of the loudmouthed in the crowd.

Again, I ask if you?ve had a look at the outrage? This is huge, and despite seeing some decent arguments being put against her that I agree with, this is going way, way too far. The error is not in my reasoning, but with fairness, not entirely in your judgement. But mostly your judgement.

This suggests that your claims to be aware of everything is nothing but bullshit.

My criticism of 4chan does not do that. You?re deliberately being dismissive.

You know, since her vid was spammed over 4chan, a place notorious for trolls and is what fueled the worst of what she got in terms of asshat commentators.

I don?t feel anyone ?asks? for this sort of behaviour and I think you?re actually overestimating 4chans importance in the backlash (if I may be so bold.) If this was some Machiavellian gambit on Anita?s part, it?s really sad that it paid off. Most of the people I?m talking to with on youtube right now (yes, I?m one of those irritating people, sue me) are pretty clearly not 4chan people. But how would I know that? It?s a good question. A better one is how would you?

But please, actually address my point if you would. Is it fair to look at the worst and say they represent the whole? I would hope your response is a "no", though since you fail to understand my point of raising it before I don't know.

Of course it?s a fucking no! I don?t consider myself the worst of the worst, and all my gamer buddies are even better than me. I would?ve hoped you assumed that being a member of a gaming community I play games both as a hobby and social experience. But instead you assume I?m trying to attack the whole gamer community. I?m not. I have never even made a slight towards it. I?d ask if you think this affair is out of order, but I think you already do.

To put it more directly, she claims the trolls represent gamers as a whole after her video was baited over the assholes of the web. This is akin to saying all bears are killers after wrapping steak around yourself and jumping into a bit of starving bears. It IS dishonest representation.

Oh the trolls represent something alright. They?ve been trying to silence her in any way they can and the attacks are bellow the belt. Par for the course? Yes. Worthy of being ignored? Definitely not. I can understand if Anita feels that way; you have to admit the reaction has been huge, and perhaps we should lend support for her right to free speech and if she does think all gamers are swine, let us prove her wrong on this front. If the later videos she makes meets with the same ?criticism,? maybe we should take a look at our own community and see what?s wrong with it. I have criticisms small and large of every group I?m a member of and every philosophy I subscribe to. Doesn?t mean I hate them now does it? But Anita?s only crime is existing.

I know nothing of you except what opinion you posted, which,m as you still seem to keep defending the whole "they were assholes so I will side with her" crap, it IS a sad depressing state. I use that to condemn your opinion because that is all you put of your opinion on this measure.

Maybe I should?ve wrote more. It doesn?t excuse the nonsense you came out with (only a little bit.) I never thought it would cause this much confusion.

Not quite my case, more so that you may only care because of the vile directed at her is using her gender as a point to attack by.

I really hated that Christmas songs video of hers. Storm in a tea cup and faintly insulting. Other vids? Not bad. Some others? Rather interesting actually! And I like the professional flair to it all. I wonder what she?ll have to say about something that?s a little closer to home for me? Maybe I might learn something! I don?t blame anyone for donating.

But it wasn't an accusation in the end, merely a thought on the matter. the lack of integrity is, and one I will argue still as I have above, but the other aspect is merely an aside about you. As it isn't an accusation, does that mean the rest of your fault counterargument of "You made a bad accusation therefore the opposite is true" falls apart? Or will you try to rework it because you already think I am some sexist asshole when really I am just sick of bullshit logic being perpetuated as justification.

Accusation? Thought? Aside? You?re a slippery one I?ll give you that. As for the ?You made a bad accusation therefore the opposite is true? thing... I never had that strain of logic because it?s flawed. It was closer to judging you on the evidence of the baseless judgements you placed upon me. Or thoughts. Or ?not accusations.? And my accusations (or judgements) were not baseless, because you laid the criticism at me first. If I was wrong, I was wrong. But I know for a fact you?re wrong about me.

The way you present it, it is as though there are only the two choice, with her or sexist.

*sigh* No I fucking don?t! I never suggested that for goodness sake! Maybe some other are but I don?t. I know plenty who oppose her and aren?t sexist (again, youtube chatting) and I know this then and now. I don?t understand why you feel this way and I?m upset that you do! Maybe other people feel I?m saying that? I don?t want to upset people (at least not some of them.)

Qualifier: I know I left large parts of the post unaddressed. I felt they were adequately explained elsewhere and also I?m tired. If there is anything you wish to call me out on, take aim.

But I?ll say this in closing. On her blog she thanked her supporters both female and male, and I think she acknowledges that not all gamers are total scum. Frankly, between threats of rape and murder and some other shocking stuff, I wonder if I could say the same thing if I were in her position, rather than tell the internet just to fuck itself (but that?d probably do more harm than good.)

 

[darkfox85]

She can't back up her statistics with the fact that japan has some women only train cars.

What the hell do you want? A reference for every damn thing that's said? As if making videos wasn't hard enough. If you have doubts on something, do a little research yourself then present your findings as good criticism. This will make you strong.

I've seen very good threads here on the escapist, that's why a post here. But I won't watch the community explode into a shit storm over stupid bullshit like this.

Then why are you contributing at all, let alone contributing to what many feel is the wrong side? Like it or not, there's a lot to discuss. Don't throw your toys out of your pram.

You and everyone that want's to look like 'The Good Guy' to the uninformed viewer

Completely unfounded ad hominem which I can never disprove. You are cowardly and foolish to say such a thing. How about trying to argue? You haven't addressed anything I've said at all over about half a dozen posts.

stop making something out of nothing.

But there's clearly something going on. And there's so much support for what and why I don't know where or how to begin.

 

[Skeleon]

That has got to be the dumbest way of arguing against the severity of issues of misogynistic behaviour I can imagine.

 

[Zaik]

I'm inclined to agree that it was little more than a scam, but I don't really see how you can blame her that there are gullible retards that will throw money at a perceived injustice to feel better about themselves.

Were it not for the legal nonsense involved with kickstarters, I'd probably run a similar scam just to teach dumb people a lesson.

How is it a scam? She wanted to make a series of videos, she needed the funds to do so and she asked people for the funds on Kickstarter. The amount she got is pretty staggering, but she's promised to really increase the size of the series to use up all the money.

OT: And this is why we can't have nice things. -_-

It's a scam because making Youtube videos with zero production costs about information that is freely available pretty much all over the internet is...well...free.

Obviously there's a time investment, but $6000 would pay my rent and utilities for an entire year. There's no way that it was necessary.

The reason why that falls under "scam" is because it's presenting itself as more than what it is during a time where a lot of controversy had been drummed up recently about the subject matter, hoping that people with plenty of money and moral outrage and no sense whatsoever will see someone saying "I'm x person and I need $6000 to address this!" and just throw it at them without actually thinking about it at all.

 

[darkfox85]

What the hell do you want? A reference for every damn thing that's said? As if making videos wasn't hard enough. If you have doubts on something, do a little research yourself then present your findings as good criticism. This will make you strong.

I want a (as In one) reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women-only_passenger_car

let alone contributing to what many feel is the wrong side?

You don't seem to know how opinions work, there always is someone "on the wrong side"

Yes. I know how opinions work. Everyone does. I was asking because you're complaining about a shit storm you're actively participating in. And participating very crudely at that. Would you like to address what I said? Would you like to address anything else I said?

But there's clearly something going on.

Yes, meaningless bitching is going on.

Oh I agree.

For god sake, say something of substance. These posts are getting shorter and shorter.

That "something going on" is a presentation of ugly social attitudes coming to light that are worthy of analysis. Indicative of something bigger and frankly, stranger than I ever thought. Maybe we could talk about it sometime?