Flaw in Anti-Bullying Law

[000Ronald]

But I could do that! And I could throw you a curveball by actually making valid points every now and again!

Please?

Fine, fine.

*Ahem*

You pyscopath! Do you have any idea how utterly stupid that is? Not only can Christians victimize gays, but vegans can assault anyone who eats animal products, Muslims can harass women, pretty much anything anyone believes to be "wrong" is now an excuse for attacking people!

NOTE: The opinions expressed below are not mine; they are meant to be a parody of certain right-wing individuals, and are based on arguments I have heard. My personal opinion is that violence is NEVER justified, although there are times when it is the appropriate response.

You filthy liberals, acting as if everything is the end of the world. Bullying isn't nearly as big a problem as people make it out to be. So what if five gay kids killed themselves; do you know how many people died overseas in that same amount of time?

EDIT: After some consideration, I've decided to explain these arguments and why they are flawed. To prove, no, these aren't my opinions.

This particular response is courtesy of my grandmother. Notice how the primary argument is first marginalized, then trivialized by a completely different problem. Also notice that it doesn't actually respond to the problem mentioned, merely pushes it aside. This argument comes from the mindset of a person unaware of the modern world and all the things that go along with it.

 

[Tsaba]

snip

"One of the reforms will require school districts to have procedures in place to address bullying complaints. But the bill now also has language that says requirements don't "prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil's parent or guardian.""

EDIT: someone answered my question


http://www.freep.com/article/20111103/NEWS05/111030420/Anti-bullying-legislation-passes-state-Senate

 

[GoAwayVifs]

Think going ten fold on someone will stop them from bullying ever again. The only way to teach people a lesson is to make the their actions have brutal outcomes. There was a guy who tried to steal my car one time at 1:00 in the morning. The bad news for him is that I always stay up late and saw him through my fence. Took off running after him and he tripped. Then I broke his leg with the bat. That will probably stop him from doing that ever again, have plenty of time to think about not stealing cars in the hospital.

By that logic capital punishment is the best deterrent to crime.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Okay. Calmed down a bit. I wish there were Right-Wing nuts I could argue this with here on the Escapist. It is times like this I wish I wasn't banned from Moonbattery.com.

I'm not a right-wing nut, but I know some. You could argue with me, so long as we both understand that I'm agreeing with you, and just reiterating some of the points I've heard.

EDIT:

Grats Michigan, you've officially joined Texas and the deep south on my "PLACES TO AVOID IF POSSIBLE" list.

Wait, it was this that tipped you off, and not DETROIT being there? How could you not notice FRIGGIN' DETROIT!

Ah, that made me laugh. Good old Detroit. I live in Ireland and we actually had a lecture about Detroit in my Urban Design University classes. It basically went along the lines of "This place is a dump, look at what they did and don't do it."

But I could do that! And I could throw you a curveball by actually making valid points every now and again!

Please?

Fine, fine.

*Ahem*

You pyscopath! Do you have any idea how utterly stupid that is? Not only can Christians victimize gays, but vegans can assault anyone who eats animal products, Muslims can harass women, pretty much anything anyone believes to be "wrong" is now an excuse for attacking people!

The Bill doesn't actually work like that, here is the exact wording:
"This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil and parent or guardian."
It is designed to protect relgious free speech, so if I say that I disagree with evolution or homosexuality (or Lightbulbs, Psychologists, eating pork, blood transfusions, or killing animals[footnote]Let's play spot the Religion! 1 point for correctly identifying which religion each belongs to.)[/footnote]) Then my views cannot be discriminated against and I cannot be punished.
It only protects a "statement" of this belief, so saying you don't agree with homosexuality is fine, beating off[footnote]I meant to say "beating up", but found this typo so hilarious I decided to keep it in. What can I say, I'm the Bethseda of the Escapist![/footnote] someone because they are homosexual and you think it's a sin is not alright.

I have a post on the first page explaining the thinking behind the Bill if you are interested.

 

[000Ronald]

Think going ten fold on someone will stop them from bullying ever again. The only way to teach people a lesson is to make the their actions have brutal outcomes. There was a guy who tried to steal my car one time at 1:00 in the morning. The bad news for him is that I always stay up late and saw him through my fence. Took off running after him and he tripped. Then I broke his leg with the bat. That will probably stop him from doing that ever again, have plenty of time to think about not stealing cars in the hospital.

No.

No.

That is not OK. You can't justify violent action by using it in response to property damage! Especially when someone's running away!

Let me justify that further; if he was running away, he probably wasn't armed, and clearly wasn't a threat to you or anyone you care about any more. And if he sees someone coming after him with a baseball bat, he's going to stay away from that place. What's more, criminals tend to be impoverished; you sending him to the hospital just gave him more incentive to commit crimes. Now he has a hospital bill to pay off. You have, in no way, made the situation better, you've just proven that you think terrorizing unarmed people makes you a badass.

Capacity for violence does not justify violence. Nothing justifies violence. Ever.

 

[Infernai]

So...you mean if i was growing up and punched/tormented someone, i could legally get off scot free by saying 'jesus made me do it'?

And here i thought the Australian government had gone to the dogs...urgh.

Dear Humanity: Can we please just perform a purge on our current major idiots in government and exile them before introducing stricter policies on who gets into government?....Namely an I.Q test?

 

[ryo02]

if I have kids and bullies try to pull this religious reason bull (Im in the uk so hopefully we dont end up with a stupid law like this) you can bet I wont stand for it.

 

[TitanAtlas]

...This confuses me on many levels. What exactly IS a "religious or moral" reason? I would have thought the only thing that constitutes was self-defense.

Actually, now I think about it, that could be a good thing. Morally, you can now step in and punch a guy in the face if he's picking on someone else.

Hey, that's great!

I wonder if when they say religious motives they mean Christian or if it goes for all religions...

"So Ackmed why did you hit Steve"

- "ALA TOLD ME TO KILL THE INFIDELS!!!"

"Oh... ok then... carry on..."

 

[Tanis]

I don't get it. Who has religious reasons to bully someone? Even if they did, it shouldn't be allowed.

It's basically a way for Christian Republicans to still gaybash.

 

[000Ronald]

You filthy liberals, acting as if everything is the end of the world. Bullying isn't nearly as big a problem as people make it out to be. So what if five gay kids killed themselves; do you know how many people died overseas in that same amount of time?

EDIT: After some consideration, I've decided to explain these arguments and why they are flawed. To prove, no, these aren't my opinions.

This particular response is courtesy of my grandmother. Notice how the primary argument is first marginalized, then trivialized by a completely different problem. Also notice that it doesn't actually respond to the problem mentioned, merely pushes it aside. This argument comes from the mindset of a person unaware of the modern world and all the things that go along with it.

That's exactly like someone from MB! You, sir, have a knack for this.

...is that you conceding the point? Because that would just be sick and wrong.

 

[Lilani]

This makes no sense. It's illegal for adults to harass others for any reasons, religious or not. Why teach children that it's okay to hurt people for such reasons? Not only is it ludicrous, and as she said gives them the perfect excuse for it, but it sends entirely the wrong message.

 

[mitchell271]

I don't get it. Who has religious reasons to bully someone? Even if they did, it shouldn't be allowed.

Here's one I just know someone will use: "I'm Christian. You're Muslim. The Quoran is full of violence! I'm going to beat you up for it RARG!" (I've actually seen this be used as an excuse before)

The irony (in this example) is that the Bible isn't exactly all bunnies and rainbows. They CRUCIFY someone, and then they criticise Muslims for having violent religious text. "Muslims are all crazy people who want to kill you if you're not Muslim!" Clearly you haven't seen Christian extremists. Ever heard of the infamous KKK?

Achievement Unlocked: If Godwin was religious Used religious ignorance to prove a point that had nothing to do with the topic.

OT: Michigan, you're fucking retarded. If people heard about this at all, there would be a massive uprising, ESPECIALLY from the "What about the children?!" mothers that are open-minded.

 

[CommanderL]

So a gay kid kills himself because he was being bullied about it. Now this law can technically excuse a bully that antagonized a gay kid because his religion views gays as an evil abomination. Faaaaaaaantastic.

I remember the anti-bullying law that helped me in middle school. Left my bully breathless. Cause the law was my fist. And I punched him in the throat. Good times.

the cold hard fist of the law sounds like a good movie but all jokes aside this is just messed up

 

[000Ronald]

...is that you conceding the point? Because that would just be sick and wrong.

There isn't any reason to continue, you already pointed out why the statement is idiotic.

True, but I didn't make a counter-point. That's your responsibility.

A discussion shouldn't just be about proving yourself right or just about proving the other guy wrong. Explain further why the bill is bad and why bullying is bad.

 

[Tsaba]

The Bill doesn't actually work like that, here is the exact wording:
"This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil and parent or guardian."
It is designed to protect relgious free speech, so if I say that I disagree with evolution or homosexuality (or Lightbulbs, Psychologists, eating pork, blood transfusions, or killing animals) Then my views cannot be discriminated against and I cannot be punished.
It only protects a "statement" of this belief, so saying you don't agree with homosexuality is fine, beating off someone because they are homosexual and you think it's a sin is not alright.

I have a post on the first page explaining the thinking behind the Bill if you are interested.

and there lies my answer, thank you.

EDIT: I do however believe that no one will listen to you since they are on there usual death to fox news and all republicans rant. It will somehow migrate to it, just sit back and watch it's like clockwork around here.

 

[Zerazar]

All of my hate. All of it.

I always end up writing a rant before deciding not to post it -.-. But I guess "all of my hate" is just a more concise way of saying it anyway.