Flaw in Anti-Bullying Law

[Samurai Silhouette]

Bullying is part of a religion? That's like sticking your religion down someone's throat. Wasn't there freedom of religion in America or something? Fucking retarded.

 

[Vrach]

Now, I'm going to be the first to admit I'm not entirely up to date on American politics but this seems a little fucked up. A Republican anti-bullying law in Michigan states that bullying is a-okay provided the bully can come up with a 'religious or moral' reason.

Wahahahhahahha. You've gotta love Republicans. That's gotta be one of the most stupid things I've heard in my life. I can already see the slogan behind the law:

Beat kids up - for JESUS!

edit:

The Bill doesn't actually work like that, here is the exact wording:
"This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil and parent or guardian."
It is designed to protect relgious free speech, so if I say that I disagree with evolution or homosexuality (or Lightbulbs, Psychologists, eating pork, blood transfusions, or killing animals) Then my views cannot be discriminated against and I cannot be punished.
It only protects a "statement" of this belief, so saying you don't agree with homosexuality is fine, beating off someone because they are homosexual and you think it's a sin is not alright.

I have a post on the first page explaining the thinking behind the Bill if you are interested.

Well that makes a hell of a lot more sense. But what's the chick in the video on about then?

Also, Amish, no clue, Jews, Jehovah's witnesses, Buddhists, respectively - I think.

 

[Dethenger]

All of my hate. All of it.

I always end up writing a rant before deciding not to post it -.-. But I guess "all of my hate" is just a more concise way of saying it anyway.

This. I went through two rant drafts about why this is a terrible, terrible thing. Decided everyone else had essentially gotten to it first, considered posting "Are you fucking jokes," but thought I might get a warning for low content if I did that.

Well, since I'm posting:

"Moral or religious?" Are you fucking jokes?

 

[000Ronald]

First of all, just because people are dying across the world, does that mean that I can go out and rape or murder someone? I mean, why complain, right, people are dying all over the world, your troubles are peanuts to that.

The fact that you take such a view of the deaths of five innocent people shows what a sociopath you are.

NOTE: The opinions expressed below are not mine; they are meant to be a parody of certain right-wing individuals, and are based on arguments I have heard. My personal opinion is that violence is NEVER justified, although there are times when it is the appropriate response.

That you would trivialize the deaths of thousands of soldiers says more about you than it does me.

What's more, chew on this for a second; you know how you people are always saying video games don't cause violence, despite all the evidence otherwise? Well, what if bullying doesn't cause suicide? Wouldn't you agree it takes a fairly unstable mind to even contemplate suicide? And an even more unstable mind to actually go through with it? Besides, being unstable, these people probably wouldn't have contributed anything to our country anyway; they'd just be more "Occupy" protesters, saying they want free money from people who've gone to the trouble of earning it.

Is what I'm saying offensive? Probably, to some liberal whack-job. But it's true.

Again. For emphasis. Not my opinion. I hear this stuff on the radio and TV; I'm just making it slightly less incoherent.

 

[Jodah]

It seems like its to cover their asses and make it so the law can't be thrown out on the basis of the first amendment.

 

[TitanAtlas]

I wonder if when they say religious motives they mean Christian or if it goes for all religions...

"So Ackmed why did you hit Steve"

- "ALA TOLD ME TO KILL THE INFIDELS!!!"

"Oh... ok then... carry on..."

It's America, take a guess

What scaries me it's not it is America... wich concerns me is what part of america this is going to be used on...

i'm pretty sure the rest of the world has they're anti-stupidity shields activated so that this doesn't spread...

oh wait... nvm... guess the shields were faulty cuz the whole world seems to be filled with bad choices and lot of regret...

 

[Aprilgold]

So according to this law it's perfectly OK to, I don't know....bully a homosexual kid into suicide if you believe homosexuality is a grievous sin.

.................................................................................

Actually, yeah, that is what its allowing. Or a Black Kid, or a Jewish Kid, or a Lesbian and the list continues on.

 

[vivalahelvig]

remember kids: If a bully messes with you, you beat the shit out of him (but make sure he hits first). You beat him so hard he wished he never saw you in his life. After you have him knocked out, start kicking him in the balls too, to make sure.

That's how i do it, and i consider it selfdefense
Moral reasons, ya know.

 

[Thaluikhain]

So...you mean if i was growing up and punched/tormented someone, i could legally get off scot free by saying 'jesus made me do it'?

And here i thought the Australian government had gone to the dogs...urgh.

Dear Humanity: Can we please just perform a purge on our current major idiots in government and exile them before introducing stricter policies on who gets into government?....Namely an I.Q test?

Heh, it's all fun and games complaining about local politicians, but despite Gillard having a somewhat annoying voice and Abbott posing in speedos, they just can't compete, really.

I would also add that, for example, anti-gay rhetoric or legislation is hardly evidence for stupidity, if lots of voters are anti-gay.

...

TBH, I fail to see how this is shocking or surprising. Assuming for the moment that it does excuse bullying in you're entrenched in your bigotry...this is news, how?

The "gay panic" defence has never gone away in the US. It might not be written into law, but if murder can be reduced to manslaughter if your schoolmate victim was openly gay, what do you expect?

 

[walrusaurus]

Now, I'm going to be the first to admit I'm not entirely up to date on American politics but this seems a little fucked up. A Republican anti-bullying law in Michigan states that bullying is a-okay provided the bully can come up with a 'religious or moral' reason.
As far as loopholes go this seems like a gaping one.

So do you think this is really 'worse than nothing'? Having a fail-safe reason to justify bullying in the eyes of the law.

The law isn't technically promoting bullying of any kind. What it does do is lay down a set of rules for what constitutes bullying and how varying degrees can be punished, and then states that 'this law can't be used to punish bullying motivated by personal beliefs;' ie. all bullying. It doesn't prohibit any rules or punishments for 'morality-based bullying' just not these ones. Its a functionally meaningless bill that doesn't actually do anything, positive or negative.

However, the sentiment itself is troubling, and does set a potentially damaging precedent. The basic philosophy being: that there is no limit to what can be justified/permitted on the basis of religious conviction due to the first amendment (eg. hate crimes).

 

[walrusaurus]

double post

 

[Worgen]

Lol, how very expected from a republican "as long as jesus says its ok, bully the fuck out of those gays".

 

[000Ronald]

That you would trivialize the deaths of thousands of soldiers says more about you than it does me.

What's more, chew on this for a second; you know how you people are always saying video games don't cause violence, despite all the evidence otherwise? Well, what if bullying doesn't cause suicide? Wouldn't you agree it takes a fairly unstable mind to even contemplate suicide? And an even more unstable mind to actually go through with it? Besides, being unstable, these people probably wouldn't have contributed anything to our country anyway; they'd just be more "Occupy" protesters, saying they want free money from people who've gone to the trouble of earning it.

Is what I'm saying offensive? Probably, to some liberal whack-job. But it's true.

Again. For emphasis. Not my opinion. I hear this stuff on the radio and TV; I'm just making it slightly less incoherent.

What do you think makes them unstable? Bullying is torture! Oh, wait, look who I'm talking to about torture.

NOTE: The opinions expressed below are not mine; they are meant to be a parody of certain right-wing individuals, and are based on arguments I have heard. My personal opinion is that violence is NEVER justified, although there are times when it is the appropriate response.

Did you just compare getting called a '******' for being a ****** to being tied down and having water poured on your face? Do you know how stupid that is? Do you know how stupid that sounds? Everyone here thinks you're stupid now.

And the point still stands that bullying isn't nearly as big a problem as liberals make it out to be. Sure, people get called names and maybe shoved around, but it's only when they're in school, and teachers always put a stop to it.

And is there anyone here who hasn't felt bullied before? I know I was 'bullied' when I was little.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Not my opinion, and in fact DarkDraven made the best possible argument he could have made, the same one I would have (although I would have worded it differently). Fantastic job, and I am not kidding.

EDIT: If I don't answer immediately, it's because I'm going to be away from my computer for about half an hour.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

....Are. You. MOTHER!@#$ING. SERIOUS?!?!?!

Do they have any idea what this can and will lead to?

This!!! :
-
Teacher: Why did you bully timmy, Tommy?
Tommy (the bully): CUZ TIMMY IS A GAY!!
Timmy (the victim): ...I'm not even-
Teacher: *LE GASP!!!!* Oh my goodness Tommy! You did the right thing! We can't let this heinousness go unpunished!
Timmy: BUT HE SHOVED ME INTO A TRASH CAN AND CALLS MY MOM A !@#CH NON STOP! AND I'M NOT-
Teacher: Shut up You little *insert insult here*! You're lucky you only got what you did! Now go stand in the corner and think about what you did wrong!
-
....Now imagine this scenario with 8 year old kids, and Tommy is merely using "he's gay" as an excuse, even if Timmy isn't Gay. Now Tommy is ENCOURAGED to bully Timmy, and Timmy is now labeled as something he isn't, which will confuse the shit out of a kid trying to establish his identity.

So did they have ANY freaking clue what they were doi-.....Oh wait, they knew EXACTLY WHAT THE !@#$ THEY WERE DOING when they made this law! They want to squish out anything that doesn't line up with their way of thinking, right at the root, when there are young kids involved.

..........Gah, I need to go puke. This makes me sick.

The law can be taken either way I guess. Homosexual kid kills another kid in a fight because his "straightness" is morally wrong in his eyes?

See how that can be twisted? This idea is bonkers.

Except that no teacher would accept that. A reasonable teacher would say that ANY kind of bullying is wrong, regardless of reason. An unreasonable teacher is 90% more likely to side AGAINST the gay kid. And even if the teacher DOES side with the kid, then it's likely that someone higher up the chain of command will be a hardline "moralist" (read: asshole who thinks that HIS worldview is the only lawful and good one) will come down hard on the teacher and fire them for "immorality" of some kind.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

The Bill doesn't actually work like that, here is the exact wording:
"This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil and parent or guardian."
It is designed to protect relgious free speech, so if I say that I disagree with evolution or homosexuality (or Lightbulbs, Psychologists, eating pork, blood transfusions, or killing animals) Then my views cannot be discriminated against and I cannot be punished.
It only protects a "statement" of this belief, so saying you don't agree with homosexuality is fine, beating off someone because they are homosexual and you think it's a sin is not alright.

I have a post on the first page explaining the thinking behind the Bill if you are interested.

and there lies my answer, thank you.

EDIT: I do however believe that no one will listen to you since they are on there usual death to fox news and all republicans rant. It will somehow migrate to it, just sit back and watch it's like clockwork around here.

So in other words it's still vague enough for people to be able to condone verbal abuse of a student if not physical, that's not a great deal better. This whole thing really just sounds like an incentive all the wrong people are going to try and exploit the loophole's this presents. I'm not going to start calling for the heads of all conservatives, I just think they need to go back to the drawing board on this one.

 

[spartan231490]

...This confuses me on many levels. What exactly IS a "religious or moral" reason? I would have thought the only thing that constitutes was self-defense.

Actually, now I think about it, that could be a good thing. Morally, you can now step in and punch a guy in the face if he's picking on someone else.

Hey, that's great!

That's assault, not bullying.

OT: I don't approve of a law against bullying in any form. Children don't deserve a criminal record for bullying, it's a part of life that won't disappear, we need to just get used to it.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I'm not exactly the biggest supporter of anti-bully laws because kids will be kids, not to mention I believe it encourages punishment over resolution.

However, I am against legislations and whatnot based on religion and morals. Not necessarily because I'm atheist (I believe you can believe whatever the hell you want as long as you keep it to yourself), but because it is just too vague, too subjective, and open to exploitation.

I didn't watch the video though, I don't know dick about U.S. politics. Just thought I'd throw my hat in the ring.

hey hey, someone who said my logic in the first few posts? surprised quite honestly.

so yeah, kudos to you good sir/madam, i agree with you 100%