For all those who think Tommy Jordan is a great dad...

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Owyn_Merrilin

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Read this:

The National Abuse Hotline said:
AM I BEING ABUSED?

Does your partner:

embarrasses the other person with put-downs
looks or acts in ways that are frightening
tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes
tries to stop the other person from seeing friends or family members
tries to take the other person?s money or Social Security check
makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared
makes all of the decisions
threatens to take away or hurt the children
prevents the other person from working or attending school
acts like the abuse is no big deal, denies doing it, or blames something or someone else, even the person being abused
destroys the other person?s property or threatens to kill pets

intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons
shoves,slaps, chokes or hits the other person
forces the other person to try and drop charges
threatens to commit suicide
threatens to kill the other person
If you answered ?yes? to even one of these questions,you may be in an abusive relationship.For support and more information please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) or at TTY 1-800-787-3224.
Bold text mine.

Now, for discusion, do you still think this man is awesome??
 

Lionsfan

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Maybe I'm missing something...but why couldn't this have gone into the other thread? It's not like that thread is dying or anything
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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Lionsfan said:
Maybe I'm missing something...but why couldn't this have gone into the other thread? It's not like that thread is dying or anything
It's likelier for people to see it as its own thread than as a random post in a 14+ pager. Besides, it actually is in there, as a response to Dastardly.

Thomas Guy said:
Awesome, No. Correct, Yes. Also, this says PARTNER.
As for it saying "Partner:" I'd say it really doesn't make any difference whether it's your spouse or your daughter. Abuse is abuse.
 

Kinokohatake

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Lionsfan said:
Maybe I'm missing something...but why couldn't this have gone into the other thread? It's not like that thread is dying or anything
It's likelier for people to see it as its own thread than as a random post in a 14+ pager. Besides, it actually is in there, as a response to Dastardly.

Thomas Guy said:
Awesome, No. Correct, Yes. Also, this says PARTNER.
As for it saying "Partner:" I'd say it really doesn't make any difference whether it's your spouse or your daughter. Abuse is abuse.
No it isn't. He destroyed her laptop, which he purchased. It's his right as a father to discipline his daughter.

On the first bolded statement- He didn't embarrass her. She took something to a public forum, he posted the video for her friends.

Second statement- He doesn't make her beg for money. He wants the daughter to get a job which she apparently refuses to do. Teens should not be paid for sweeping a floor and making their bed.

Third Statement- The only thing he did in that was destroy HIS property

So now I have two questions. How old are you and are you a parent?
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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Thomas Guy said:
Owyn_Merrilin said:
Lionsfan said:
Maybe I'm missing something...but why couldn't this have gone into the other thread? It's not like that thread is dying or anything
It's likelier for people to see it as its own thread than as a random post in a 14+ pager. Besides, it actually is in there, as a response to Dastardly.

Thomas Guy said:
Awesome, No. Correct, Yes. Also, this says PARTNER.
As for it saying "Partner:" I'd say it really doesn't make any difference whether it's your spouse or your daughter. Abuse is abuse.
No it isn't. He destroyed her laptop, which he purchased. It's his right as a father to discipline his daughter.

On the first bolded statement- He didn't embarrass her. She took something to a public forum, he posted the video for her friends.

Second statement- He doesn't make her beg for money. He wants the daughter to get a job which she apparently refuses to do. Teens should not be paid for sweeping a floor and making their bed.

Third Statement- The only thing he did in that was destroy HIS property

So now I have two questions. How old are you and are you a parent?
22, and no, I am not a parent. Now, same question of you?

On the first statement what is public humiliation, if not embarrassment? Because that's what he did. Begging for money: He won't pay her for her chores, and she's too young to reasonably be expected to get that job he's pushing her to get. She has to ask him for literally /anything/, and when she points that out, he goes "well, get a job, you lazy bum," ignoring the fact that you need a car to work in a rural area. As for the laptop being "his" property? Maybe in the eyes of the law. But it was a gift, which means by any other standard, it was hers. Hell, under the eyes of the law, even if she /had/ earned it with her own money, because she's underage, it would still belong to him. Does that make it right for him to destroy it? The damage isn't in the legal property damage. It's in the emotional pain of having someone destroy your property.
 

Kinokohatake

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Thomas Guy said:
Owyn_Merrilin said:
Lionsfan said:
Maybe I'm missing something...but why couldn't this have gone into the other thread? It's not like that thread is dying or anything
It's likelier for people to see it as its own thread than as a random post in a 14+ pager. Besides, it actually is in there, as a response to Dastardly.

Thomas Guy said:
Awesome, No. Correct, Yes. Also, this says PARTNER.
As for it saying "Partner:" I'd say it really doesn't make any difference whether it's your spouse or your daughter. Abuse is abuse.
No it isn't. He destroyed her laptop, which he purchased. It's his right as a father to discipline his daughter.

On the first bolded statement- He didn't embarrass her. She took something to a public forum, he posted the video for her friends.

Second statement- He doesn't make her beg for money. He wants the daughter to get a job which she apparently refuses to do. Teens should not be paid for sweeping a floor and making their bed.

Third Statement- The only thing he did in that was destroy HIS property

So now I have two questions. How old are you and are you a parent?
22, and no, I am not a parent. Now, same question of you?

On the first statement what is public humiliation, if not embarrassment? Because that's what he did. Begging for money: He won't pay her for her chores, and she's too young to reasonably be expected to get that job he's pushing her to get. She has to ask him for literally /anything/, and when she points that out, he goes "well, get a job, you lazy bum," ignoring the fact that you need a car to work in a rural area. As for the laptop being "his" property? Maybe in the eyes of the law. But it was a gift, which means by any other standard, it was hers. Hell, under the eyes of the law, even if she /had/ earned it with her own money, because she's underage, it would still belong to him. Does that make it right for him to destroy it? The damage isn't in the legal property damage. It's in the emotional pain of having someone destroy your property.
27 and Yes.

He sent a message to her friends. That's it. And no he shouldn't pay her to sweep the kitchen, wipe the counters and make her bed. Or maybe he should. Pay her minimum wage for the hours she works. It would take a bout 10 minutes to do those things. So less than a dollar a day. And she's 14. You can work at certain places at 14 and since he seems like he knows a few people who would skirt age requirements I bet she has options.And yes it makes it his right to destroy it. And I bet you she will remember this next time she goes to post a pretty awful message about her parents online.
 

Riki Darnell

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Thomas Guy said:
27 and Yes.

He sent a message to her friends. That's it. And no he shouldn't pay her to sweep the kitchen, wipe the counters and make her bed. Or maybe he should. Pay her minimum wage for the hours she works. It would take a bout 10 minutes to do those things. So less than a dollar a day. And she's 14. You can work at certain places at 14 and since he seems like he knows a few people who would skirt age requirements I bet she has options.And yes it makes it his right to destroy it. And I bet you she will remember this next time she goes to post a pretty awful message about her parents online.
I never got allowance. It was expected that I make my bed, take out the trash, clean the dishes, help put away groceries etc. She just sounds lazy, but then again at 15 anything that takes more than 5min takes "forever".
 
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Embarrasses other with put downs: This could be said of any parent disciplining a child and someone else happens to see. He also didn't mean for all this to get so huge, only meant to show it to family/close friends. I'd also like to add that everyone is embarrassed by their family in some way.

looks or acts in ways that are frightening

He didn't look too frightening. Intimidating? Yes. Frightening? No. Plus, any angry father looks scary.

Tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes

This describes pretty much every parent who cares about their child.

Makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared

Kids asking their parents for money isn't that uncommon. And why should parents share money with kids? I was told to do chores as well, and I didn't get payed in money. I got the occasional nice gift, but that's it. And that seems to be the deal the father and daughter have set up. At least from what I can tell.

makes all the decisions

Don't all parents do this?

acts like the abuse is no big deal, denies doing it, or blames something or someone else, even the person being abused

This doesn't seem like it negatively effect her so much that it can be considered abuse. It could be emotional considering how large this whole thing has gotten, but going by the father's response to the whole thing (posted below), she doesn't seem that phased. He could be mis-construing the facts, but considering at the start the girl was grounded with little-to-no access to the internet/outside world, she wouldn't even know about this. And when her father showed her, she didn't seem that embarrassed.

destroys the other person's property or threatens to kill pets

He bought the laptop, it's his property. It may be a gift, and that would be a dick thing to destroy it. But if all gifts are now you're property, then any parent who tries to take something from a child would be considered theft. So where exactly is the line with this?

intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons

He wasn't really intimidating anyone. The gun was just used as a tool to destroy the computer.

I'd also like to post the father's response to the whole thing.

Attention Media Outlets:
While we appreciate the interest you're all putting forth to get in touch with us regarding the video, we're not going to go on your talk show, not going to call in to your radio show, and not going to be in your TV mini-series.

Some of you think I made an acceptable parenting decision and others think I didn't. However, I can't think of any way myself or my daughter can ...respond to a media outlet that won't be twisted out of context. The Dallas news TV news already showed that in their brief 5 minute interview with the psychologist.

Additionally, there's absolutely NO way I'm going to send my child the message that it's OK to gain from something like this. It would send her a message that it's OK to profit at the expense of someone else's embarrassment or misfortune and that's now how I was raised, nor how she has been raised.

So I say thank you from all of us. If we have anything to say, we'll say it here on Facebook, and we'll say it publicly, but we won't say it to a microphone or a camera. There are too many other REAL issues out there that could use this attention you're giving us. My daughter isn't hurt, emotionally scarred, or otherwise damaged, but that kind of publicity has never seemed to be to have a positive effect on any child or family.

If you're a news outlet that wants to ask us a question, feel free to so via email. I'm sure by now my email address is easy enough to find. It might take me awhile to get to a response because I'd have to sort through the "Die you bastard" emails to find it, but we will respond if its something that we feel merits it. Otherwise, sorry... no interviews, no talk shows, no call-ins.

If we respond to anything, it will be on here, and it will be in a way that our words can't be misconstrued or edited for appeal to specific audience or shock value.

Now, I'm going to try to get to work for the day.
Best of luck to all of you out there... and PLEASE give my phone a break.
==========================================
HOW HANNAH GOT CAUGHT
HOW SHE GOT CAUGHT: The Dog Did It.. no, really.

I finally came out and told her this today, partly because it was too funny NOT to share.

When my daughter made her post, she used Facebook's privacy settings to block "Family" and "Church" friend's lists. All her other friends could see it. We, of course could not.

One of our dogs is always getting in photos and therefore has her own Facebook pa...ge. It's just a cute dumb thing we did for fun. Well, the dog's profile is rarely used except when funny pictures of her are posted. Since that's not too often, and she has very few friends on Facebook, her wall is kind of bare, with relatively few posts showing up on it.

The other night we gave the dog a bath and there was a funny photo we uploaded to Facebook and tagged her in. I logged in as the dog the next morning to comment on the photo. However when I logged into the dog's profile, my daughter had forgotten to add her to the "family" list.... so our family dog's profile showed her post right there on the front page.

It wasn't any parent-hacking, computer spying, or monitoring of any kind.. the dog actually ratted her out completely by accident. She hasn't petted that dog all day today...
==========================================
HANNAH'S REACTION
For those that wondered, commented, criticized, and just in general wanted to know:
My daughter came through it fine.

Yes, she's in trouble, and yes she's grounded, but that doesn't mean every moment of her life has to be miserable. She's going to come to terms with the changes that will be present for a while; no TV privileges, no Internet, etc.

In the meantime, once the initial anger passed,... she sat with me reviewing some of the comments that have come in via Facebook and YouTube. One person even suggested collecting the shell casings and auctioning them on eBay. I said I'd do it if it would help contribute to her college fund! When I told her about it, she thought a minute, got a funny calculating expression on her face and said, "in that case you should shoot my phone too. We can use more bullets and I'll go half-sies with ya on it! It's not like I'm going to need it any time soon. And I can use the money we get to buy a new one."

While the whole point of this story isn't funny, what is funny to me is how weak some people out there think kids are. Our kids are as strong as we help them to be. My daughter took a horrible day in her life, had her crying fit, then got over it, accepted her punishment, and hasn't let it (or people's comments) destroy her strength. I don't get any credit for that. She's strong and able to overcome almost anything life throws at her.

Since this unsuspectingly threw her into the limelight much more strongly than either of us intended, I asked her if she wanted to make her own response video, and told her I'd let her do it if she wanted to. She doesn't like being in front of the camera, so she declined, but I've told her if she wants to write a response or post a video response, I'd be OK with it. It's only fair considering the viral nature of the whole thing. So far she's not really interested. Quite frankly it seems she's gotten bored of it much faster than the general public has. If that changes I'll post it here.
==========================================
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:
Media Response to Anita Li, from the Toronto Star

Since you took the time to email us with your requests like we asked, I'll take the time to give you an honest follow-up response. You'll have to forgive me for doing so publicly though; again I want to be sure my words are portrayed the way I actually say them, not cut together to make entirely different points.

Your questions were:
Q: Why did y...ou decide to reprimand your daughter over a public medium like YouTube?

A: Well, I actually just had to load the video file itself on YouTube because it's a better upload process than Facebook, but the intended audience was her Facebook friends and the parents of those friends who saw her post and would naturally assume we let our children get away with something like that. So, to answer "Why did you reprimand her over a public medium like Facebook" my answer is this: Because that's how I was raised. If I did something embarrassing to my parents in public (such as a grocery store) I got my tail tore up right there in front of God and everyone, right there in the store. I put the reprisal in exactly the same medium she did, in the exact same manner. Her post went out to about 452 people. Mine went out to about 550 people... originally. I had no idea it would become what it did.

Q: How effective do you think your punishment was (i.e. shooting her laptop and reading her letter online)?

A: I think it was very effective on one front. She apparently didn't remember being talked to about previous incidents, nor did she seem to remember the effects of having it taken away, nor did the eventual long-term grounding seem to get through to her. I think she thought "Well, I'll just wait it out and I'll get it back eventually." Her behavior corrected for a short time, and then it went back to what it was before and worse. This time, she won't ever forget and it'll be a long time before she has an opportunity to post on Facebook again. I feel pretty certain that every day from then to now, whenever one of her friends mentions Facebook, she'll remember it and wish she hadn't done what she did.

The second lesson I want her to learn is the value of a dollar. We don't give her everything she asks for, but you can all imagine what it's like being the only grandchild and the first child. Presents and money come from all sides when you're young. Most of the things she has that are "cool" were bought or gifted that way. She's always asked for very few things, but they're always high-dollar things (iPod, laptop, smartphone, etc). Eventually she gets given enough money to get them. That's not learning the value of a dollar. Its knowing how to save money, which I greatly applaud in her, but it's not enough. She wants a digital SLR camera. She wants a 22 rifle like mine. She wants a car. She wants a smart phone with a data package and unlimited texting. (I have to hear about that one every week!)

She thinks all these things are supposed to be given to her because she's got parents. It's not going to happen, at least not in our house. She can get a job and work for money just like everyone else. Then she can spend it on anything she wants (within reason). If she wants to work for two months to save enough to purchase a $1000 SLR camera with an $800 lens, then I can guarantee she'll NEVER leave it outside at night. She'll be careful when she puts it away and carries it around. She'll value it much more because she worked so hard to get it. Instead, with the current way things have been given to her, she's on about her fourth phone and just expects another one when she breaks the one she has. She's not sorry about breaking it, or losing it, she's sorry only because she can't text her friends. I firmly believe she'll be a LOT more careful when she has to buy her own $299.00 Motorola Razr smartphone.

Until then, she can do chores, and lots and lots of them, so the people who ARE feeding her, clothing her, paying for all her school trips, paying for her musical instruments, can have some time to relax after they finish working to support her and the rest of the family. She can either work to make money on her own, or she will do chores to contribute around the house. She's known all along that all she has to do is get a job and a lot of these chores will go away. But if you're too lazy to work even to get things you want for yourself, I'm certainly not going to let you sit idly on your rear-end with your face glued to both the TV and Facebook for 5 to 6 hours per night. Those days are over.

Q: How did your daughter respond to the video and to what happened to her laptop?

A: She responded to the video with "I can't believe you shot my computer!" That was the first thing she said when she found out about it. Then we sat and we talked for quite a long while on the back patio about the things she did, the things I did in response, etc.

Later after she'd had time to process it and I'd had time to process her thoughts on the matters we discussed, we were back to a semi-truce... you know that uncomfortable moment when you're in the kitchen with your child after an argument and you're both waiting to see which one's going to cave in and resume normal conversation first? Yeah, that moment. I told her about the video response and about it going viral and about the consequences it could have on our family for the next couple of days and asked if she wanted to see some of the comments people had made. After the first few hundred comments, she was astounded with the responses.

People were telling her she was going to commit suicide, commit a gun-related crime, become a drug addict, drop out of school, get pregnant on purpose, and become a stripper because she's too emotionally damaged now to be a productive member of society. Apparently stripper was the job-choice of most of the commenters. Her response was "Dude... it's only a computer. I mean, yeah I'm mad but pfft." She actually asked me to post a comment on one of the threads (and I did) asking what other job fields the victims of laptop-homicide were eligible for because she wasn't too keen on the stripping thing.

We agreed we learned two collective lessons from this so far:

First: As her father, I'll definitely do what I say I will, both positive and negative and she can depend on that. She no longer has any doubt about that.

Second: We have always told her what you put online can affect you forever. Years later a single Facebook/MySpace/Twitter comment can affect her eligibility for a good job and can even get her fired from a job she already has. She's seen first-hand through this video the worst possible scenario that can happen. One post, made by her Dad, will probably follow him the rest of his life; just like those mean things she said on Facebook will stick with the people her words hurt for a long time to come. Once you put it out there, you can't take it back, so think carefully before you use the internet to broadcast your thoughts and feelings.

From here [http://www.litefm.com/pages/news-story.html?feed=421220&article=9744152].
 

RoBi3.0

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I am a parent of 5 kids actually, and assuming this is about the youtube video of the father shooting up his daughters laptop, I have to say that while it was over the top he was mostly right in doing what he did. I don't think what he did was abusive or that what he expects from his daughter is unreasonable.

His daughters rant was horribly uncalled for. It was clear to me that she expected to be given stuff, with out putting any work into it. My kids are expected to help out around the house. I don't pay them specifically for chores, I do buy them things occasionally. She is a minor that doesn't have a job. It not unreasonable to expect her to ask her father for everything. Throwing wads of cash at your children so they don't have to bother you is a very unwise why to teach your children anything.

It more important as a father to raise a children who turns out to be a productive member of society, then being their best buddy. There will be times when you need to teach your kid a tough lesson. One that will likely not make you very popular with your kid, but it has to be done. Eventually they will get over it.

While humorous shooting up her laptop was extremely dumb in my eyes, but I don't have tons of money to buy computers with.

EDIT: Furthermore the list of "signs of abuse" is obviously meant to an adult in an adult relationship. For one it is horrible irresponsible for a parent to not have control over what their child does, who the child sees or talks to, or where the child goes. this point is amusing to bring up. "makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared" a what point is it expect for a parent to share their money equally with their children? As I mentioned earlier access to unlimited fund for a child is irresponsible.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Who the fuck is Tommy Jordan? Should I know? Should I care?

Next question to the parents around here: are you raising children, or older teens? Because authoritarian (As opposed to authoritative) parenting does work... up to about the age of 12. Once kids hit adolescence and start trying to forge an identity separate from their parents, it all goes to hell in a handbasket.
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Owyn_Merrilin said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Who the fuck is Tommy Jordan? Should I know? Should I care?

Next question to the parents around here: are you raising children, or older teens? Because authoritarian (As opposed to authoritative) parenting does work... up to about the age of 12. Once kids hit adolescence and start trying to forge an identity separate from their parents, it all goes to hell in a handbasket.
Oh, that guy.

Yeah, well, you know what? I would probably do something simular in his situation. I wouldnt shoot the laptop or anything, but I would take it away.

I only have one issue with that whole thing; hes teaching his kid not to vent on the internet (fair enough) by making a video and uploading it to youtube (im getting mixed messages here). *EDIT: Oh yeah, and make sure to smoke a cigarette for good measure. Real fucking role model.*

Is the whole thing really worth discussing? Some redneck sucks at parenting and a bunch of rednecks think hes awesome. Woot. Such an interesting, engaging and complex situation.
It would be one thing if it was just rednecks, but look on this site. Frankly, I'm probably more of a redneck than the majority of the people posting on the matter (being a Southerner who has a (very) few of the stereotypical traits.)
 

RoBi3.0

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Irridium said:
Embarrasses other with put downs: This could be said of any parent disciplining a child and someone else happens to see. He also didn't mean for all this to get so huge, only meant to show it to family/close friends. I'd also like to add that everyone is embarrassed by their family in some way.

looks or acts in ways that are frightening

He didn't look too frightening. Intimidating? Yes. Frightening? No. Plus, any angry father looks scary.

Tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes

This describes pretty much every parent who cares about their child.

Makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared

Kids asking their parents for money isn't that uncommon. And why should parents share money with kids? I was told to do chores as well, and I didn't get payed in money. I got the occasional nice gift, but that's it. And that seems to be the deal the father and daughter have set up. At least from what I can tell.

makes all the decisions

Don't all parents do this?

acts like the abuse is no big deal, denies doing it, or blames something or someone else, even the person being abused

This doesn't seem like it negatively effect her so much that it can be considered abuse. It could be emotional considering how large this whole thing has gotten, but going by the father's response to the whole thing (posted below), she doesn't seem that phased. He could be mis-construing the facts, but considering at the start the girl was grounded with little-to-no access to the internet/outside world, she wouldn't even know about this. And when her father showed her, she didn't seem that embarrassed.

destroys the other person's property or threatens to kill pets

He bought the laptop, it's his property. It may be a gift, and that would be a dick thing to destroy it. But if all gifts are now you're property, then any parent who tries to take something from a child would be considered theft. So where exactly is the line with this?

intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons

He wasn't really intimidating anyone. The gun was just used as a tool to destroy the computer.

I'd also like to post the father's response to the whole thing.

Attention Media Outlets:
While we appreciate the interest you're all putting forth to get in touch with us regarding the video, we're not going to go on your talk show, not going to call in to your radio show, and not going to be in your TV mini-series.

Some of you think I made an acceptable parenting decision and others think I didn't. However, I can't think of any way myself or my daughter can ...respond to a media outlet that won't be twisted out of context. The Dallas news TV news already showed that in their brief 5 minute interview with the psychologist.

Additionally, there's absolutely NO way I'm going to send my child the message that it's OK to gain from something like this. It would send her a message that it's OK to profit at the expense of someone else's embarrassment or misfortune and that's now how I was raised, nor how she has been raised.

So I say thank you from all of us. If we have anything to say, we'll say it here on Facebook, and we'll say it publicly, but we won't say it to a microphone or a camera. There are too many other REAL issues out there that could use this attention you're giving us. My daughter isn't hurt, emotionally scarred, or otherwise damaged, but that kind of publicity has never seemed to be to have a positive effect on any child or family.

If you're a news outlet that wants to ask us a question, feel free to so via email. I'm sure by now my email address is easy enough to find. It might take me awhile to get to a response because I'd have to sort through the "Die you bastard" emails to find it, but we will respond if its something that we feel merits it. Otherwise, sorry... no interviews, no talk shows, no call-ins.

If we respond to anything, it will be on here, and it will be in a way that our words can't be misconstrued or edited for appeal to specific audience or shock value.

Now, I'm going to try to get to work for the day.
Best of luck to all of you out there... and PLEASE give my phone a break.
==========================================
HOW HANNAH GOT CAUGHT
HOW SHE GOT CAUGHT: The Dog Did It.. no, really.

I finally came out and told her this today, partly because it was too funny NOT to share.

When my daughter made her post, she used Facebook's privacy settings to block "Family" and "Church" friend's lists. All her other friends could see it. We, of course could not.

One of our dogs is always getting in photos and therefore has her own Facebook pa...ge. It's just a cute dumb thing we did for fun. Well, the dog's profile is rarely used except when funny pictures of her are posted. Since that's not too often, and she has very few friends on Facebook, her wall is kind of bare, with relatively few posts showing up on it.

The other night we gave the dog a bath and there was a funny photo we uploaded to Facebook and tagged her in. I logged in as the dog the next morning to comment on the photo. However when I logged into the dog's profile, my daughter had forgotten to add her to the "family" list.... so our family dog's profile showed her post right there on the front page.

It wasn't any parent-hacking, computer spying, or monitoring of any kind.. the dog actually ratted her out completely by accident. She hasn't petted that dog all day today...
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HANNAH'S REACTION
For those that wondered, commented, criticized, and just in general wanted to know:
My daughter came through it fine.

Yes, she's in trouble, and yes she's grounded, but that doesn't mean every moment of her life has to be miserable. She's going to come to terms with the changes that will be present for a while; no TV privileges, no Internet, etc.

In the meantime, once the initial anger passed,... she sat with me reviewing some of the comments that have come in via Facebook and YouTube. One person even suggested collecting the shell casings and auctioning them on eBay. I said I'd do it if it would help contribute to her college fund! When I told her about it, she thought a minute, got a funny calculating expression on her face and said, "in that case you should shoot my phone too. We can use more bullets and I'll go half-sies with ya on it! It's not like I'm going to need it any time soon. And I can use the money we get to buy a new one."

While the whole point of this story isn't funny, what is funny to me is how weak some people out there think kids are. Our kids are as strong as we help them to be. My daughter took a horrible day in her life, had her crying fit, then got over it, accepted her punishment, and hasn't let it (or people's comments) destroy her strength. I don't get any credit for that. She's strong and able to overcome almost anything life throws at her.

Since this unsuspectingly threw her into the limelight much more strongly than either of us intended, I asked her if she wanted to make her own response video, and told her I'd let her do it if she wanted to. She doesn't like being in front of the camera, so she declined, but I've told her if she wants to write a response or post a video response, I'd be OK with it. It's only fair considering the viral nature of the whole thing. So far she's not really interested. Quite frankly it seems she's gotten bored of it much faster than the general public has. If that changes I'll post it here.
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FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:
Media Response to Anita Li, from the Toronto Star

Since you took the time to email us with your requests like we asked, I'll take the time to give you an honest follow-up response. You'll have to forgive me for doing so publicly though; again I want to be sure my words are portrayed the way I actually say them, not cut together to make entirely different points.

Your questions were:
Q: Why did y...ou decide to reprimand your daughter over a public medium like YouTube?

A: Well, I actually just had to load the video file itself on YouTube because it's a better upload process than Facebook, but the intended audience was her Facebook friends and the parents of those friends who saw her post and would naturally assume we let our children get away with something like that. So, to answer "Why did you reprimand her over a public medium like Facebook" my answer is this: Because that's how I was raised. If I did something embarrassing to my parents in public (such as a grocery store) I got my tail tore up right there in front of God and everyone, right there in the store. I put the reprisal in exactly the same medium she did, in the exact same manner. Her post went out to about 452 people. Mine went out to about 550 people... originally. I had no idea it would become what it did.

Q: How effective do you think your punishment was (i.e. shooting her laptop and reading her letter online)?

A: I think it was very effective on one front. She apparently didn't remember being talked to about previous incidents, nor did she seem to remember the effects of having it taken away, nor did the eventual long-term grounding seem to get through to her. I think she thought "Well, I'll just wait it out and I'll get it back eventually." Her behavior corrected for a short time, and then it went back to what it was before and worse. This time, she won't ever forget and it'll be a long time before she has an opportunity to post on Facebook again. I feel pretty certain that every day from then to now, whenever one of her friends mentions Facebook, she'll remember it and wish she hadn't done what she did.

The second lesson I want her to learn is the value of a dollar. We don't give her everything she asks for, but you can all imagine what it's like being the only grandchild and the first child. Presents and money come from all sides when you're young. Most of the things she has that are "cool" were bought or gifted that way. She's always asked for very few things, but they're always high-dollar things (iPod, laptop, smartphone, etc). Eventually she gets given enough money to get them. That's not learning the value of a dollar. Its knowing how to save money, which I greatly applaud in her, but it's not enough. She wants a digital SLR camera. She wants a 22 rifle like mine. She wants a car. She wants a smart phone with a data package and unlimited texting. (I have to hear about that one every week!)

She thinks all these things are supposed to be given to her because she's got parents. It's not going to happen, at least not in our house. She can get a job and work for money just like everyone else. Then she can spend it on anything she wants (within reason). If she wants to work for two months to save enough to purchase a $1000 SLR camera with an $800 lens, then I can guarantee she'll NEVER leave it outside at night. She'll be careful when she puts it away and carries it around. She'll value it much more because she worked so hard to get it. Instead, with the current way things have been given to her, she's on about her fourth phone and just expects another one when she breaks the one she has. She's not sorry about breaking it, or losing it, she's sorry only because she can't text her friends. I firmly believe she'll be a LOT more careful when she has to buy her own $299.00 Motorola Razr smartphone.

Until then, she can do chores, and lots and lots of them, so the people who ARE feeding her, clothing her, paying for all her school trips, paying for her musical instruments, can have some time to relax after they finish working to support her and the rest of the family. She can either work to make money on her own, or she will do chores to contribute around the house. She's known all along that all she has to do is get a job and a lot of these chores will go away. But if you're too lazy to work even to get things you want for yourself, I'm certainly not going to let you sit idly on your rear-end with your face glued to both the TV and Facebook for 5 to 6 hours per night. Those days are over.

Q: How did your daughter respond to the video and to what happened to her laptop?

A: She responded to the video with "I can't believe you shot my computer!" That was the first thing she said when she found out about it. Then we sat and we talked for quite a long while on the back patio about the things she did, the things I did in response, etc.

Later after she'd had time to process it and I'd had time to process her thoughts on the matters we discussed, we were back to a semi-truce... you know that uncomfortable moment when you're in the kitchen with your child after an argument and you're both waiting to see which one's going to cave in and resume normal conversation first? Yeah, that moment. I told her about the video response and about it going viral and about the consequences it could have on our family for the next couple of days and asked if she wanted to see some of the comments people had made. After the first few hundred comments, she was astounded with the responses.

People were telling her she was going to commit suicide, commit a gun-related crime, become a drug addict, drop out of school, get pregnant on purpose, and become a stripper because she's too emotionally damaged now to be a productive member of society. Apparently stripper was the job-choice of most of the commenters. Her response was "Dude... it's only a computer. I mean, yeah I'm mad but pfft." She actually asked me to post a comment on one of the threads (and I did) asking what other job fields the victims of laptop-homicide were eligible for because she wasn't too keen on the stripping thing.

We agreed we learned two collective lessons from this so far:

First: As her father, I'll definitely do what I say I will, both positive and negative and she can depend on that. She no longer has any doubt about that.

Second: We have always told her what you put online can affect you forever. Years later a single Facebook/MySpace/Twitter comment can affect her eligibility for a good job and can even get her fired from a job she already has. She's seen first-hand through this video the worst possible scenario that can happen. One post, made by her Dad, will probably follow him the rest of his life; just like those mean things she said on Facebook will stick with the people her words hurt for a long time to come. Once you put it out there, you can't take it back, so think carefully before you use the internet to broadcast your thoughts and feelings.

From here [http://www.litefm.com/pages/news-story.html?feed=421220&article=9744152].
Wow, after reading his response I respect the man more. He seems pretty well grounded and has parenting values closely inline to my own.
 

RoBi3.0

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Mar 29, 2009
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Owyn_Merrilin said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Who the fuck is Tommy Jordan? Should I know? Should I care?

Next question to the parents around here: are you raising children, or older teens? Because authoritarian (As opposed to authoritative) parenting does work... up to about the age of 12. Once kids hit adolescence and start trying to forge an identity separate from their parents, it all goes to hell in a handbasket.
Does it matter? Is it not possible to switch parenting styles once a child gets to the point where your current technique is less effective then another. Seems like a logically plan to me, continuing to do something that isn't working seems pretty silly to me.

Honestly you should try being a parent before trying to lecture people who are already in the trenches, so to speak.